Radio Host on NYC Mosque: "I hope someone blows it up"

[itshappening]

On Wednesday, a man named “Tony” called into the KTRH-AM (Houston, TX) radio show of right-wing radio host Michael Berry in support of the Muslim center. First, Berry asked the caller whether “Tony” was his real name, because with his accent, he didn’t “sound like a ‘Tony.’” He repeatedly tried to link to the mosque to terrorists, eventually saying that if the mosque is built, he hopes someone blows it up:

BERRY: No, Tony, you can’t build a mosque at the site of 9/11.

TONY: Why not? Why not?

BERRY: No, you can’t. And I’ll tell you this: If you do build a mosque, I hope somebody blows it up. … I hope the mosque isn’t built, and if it is, I hope it’s blown up. And I mean that. … It’s right-wing radicals like me that are going to keep this country safe for you and everyone else from the people who are flying the planes from the country you fled from. If you want to identify with those people, go live with them.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/05/28/mosque-bombing-ny/

[Kojac]

As much as we try to deny stereotyping and emotional responses, we're still human. People made a link between Islam and and the attacks on our country, and rightly so. The ideology of those that attack us continues to be rooted in radical Islam, and people continue to be deeply suspicious of all things Islam, especially when they are able to be so closely connected with terrorism. Whoever wants to build this mosque right next to the WTC location ought to have more sense. It's like marching around with a swastika on your arm in a synagogue.

[Kludge]

As much as we try to deny stereotyping and emotional responses, we're still human. People made a link between Islam and and the attacks on our country, and rightly so. The ideology of those that attack us continues to be rooted in radical Islam, and people continue to be deeply suspicious of all things Islam, especially when they are able to be so closely connected with terrorism. Whoever wants to build this mosque right next to the WTC location ought to have more sense. It's like marching around with a swastika on your arm in a synagogue.

I think it would be a beautiful symbol to have a mosque right next to the WTC memorial and may feel - just a little - national pride were this to happen. It would bring me a quiet joy to see fellows like the radio host angered by such a symbol - I hope he has a heart attack (.... or rethinks his position... I guess). Ideally, a protestant church, synagogue, some Oriental-style temples, and "Stefan Molyneux Educational Theater" will be nearby as well, perhaps next to a New Age psychologist's office.

But then, I'd be giddy to see Nazis in a synagogue, and Jewish Neo-Nazis. -- and I'd be quite pleased to see the WTC memorial demolished entirely to be replaced by a "productive" building. I believe the constructors to be totally in the right here and am disappointed anyone would object.

[torchbearer]

I think it would be a beautiful symbol to have a mosque right next to the WTC memorial and may have - just a little - national pride to see this happen. It would bring me a quiet joy to see fellows like the radio host angered by such a symbol - I hope he has a heart attack (.... or rethinks his position... I guess). Ideally, a protestant church, synagogue, some Oriental-style temples, and "Stefan Molyneux Educational Theater" will be nearby as well, perhaps next to a New Age psychologist's office.

But then, I'd be giddy to see Nazis in a synagogue, and Jewish Neo-Nazis. -- and I'd be quite pleased to see the WTC memorial demolished entirely to be replaced by a "productive" building. I believe the constructors to be totally in the right here and am disappointed anyone would object.

reminds me of this story about Alice's restaurant.
YouTube - Alice's Restaurant Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GguFmYRryz8)

[Fozz]

This man has incited violence. He should not be getting away with this, he is advocating terrorism.

[noxagol]

This man has incited violence. He should not be getting away with this, he is advocating terrorism.

It's ok though, since the targets of the terror are muslim :rolleyes:

[sofia]

As much as we try to deny stereotyping and emotional responses, we're still human. People made a link between Islam and and the attacks on our country, and rightly so. The ideology of those that attack us continues to be rooted in radical Islam, and people continue to be deeply suspicious of all things Islam, especially when they are able to be so closely connected with terrorism. Whoever wants to build this mosque right next to the WTC location ought to have more sense. It's like marching around with a swastika on your arm in a synagogue.

wrong...

Muslims did not do 9/11. They were framed.

Read the well researched book in my signature line.

[low preference guy]

This man has incited violence. He should not be getting away with this, he is advocating terrorism.

Of course he should be prosecuted. He is not a muslim!

[Kojac]

wrong...

Muslims did not do 9/11. They were framed.

Read the well researched book in my signature line.

...I like the "people who bought this also bought" section. Especially the Illuminati book.

Regardless of what really happened on 9/11, radical Islam does want us dead. E.G. "Death to America" is and has been a chant that has been used (right along with "Death to Israel") by these folks for years...many times IN mosques.

A swastika was once a symbol of peace and harmony, but perception matters; people recognize it as a symbol of Nazi-ism and hate.

Is it legal to build this mosque here? Sure. But it's a slap in the face to Americans, especially New Yorkers, because of symbolism and perception.

[Imperial]

Berry apologized for this the next day. He said that when people keep pushing and pushing someone eventually they will say something wrong.

[MelissaWV]

As much as we try to deny stereotyping and emotional responses, we're still human. People made a link between Islam and and the attacks on our country, and rightly so. The ideology of those that attack us continues to be rooted in radical Islam, and people continue to be deeply suspicious of all things Islam, especially when they are able to be so closely connected with terrorism. Whoever wants to build this mosque right next to the WTC location ought to have more sense. It's like marching around with a swastika on your arm in a synagogue.

It's not "right next to" the WTC site. If there needed to be a mosque-free buffer zone, like-minded people should have purchased the land and buildings surrounding the former WTC site and ensured that nothing but patriotic, red-blooded Americans were going to populate the buildings and own the businesses in the vicinity. It didn't happen that way.

NYC is a crowded mess. There are other threads showing the fact that this mosque is, I believe, at least a couple of blocks away.

Be suspicious of all things Islam, sure, but then again I wouldn't be surprised if people over there were saying more than ever "They're building what on the WTC site? Well, I hope that shit gets knocked down/blown up." The US used to be a symbol, too, and even though it was always bullshit in practice, it was a beautiful theory, once. What is it now?

[virgil47]

I'd sure like to see a Cathedral built right around the corner from the largest Mosque in Mecca buy I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for these poor peace loving oppressed people to allow it.

[MelissaWV]

I'd sure like to see a Cathedral built right around the corner from the largest Mosque in Mecca buy I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for these poor peace loving oppressed people to allow it.

Mecca is "Muslim only," I believe, and there are signs graciously telling you that. If NYC wanted to do something similar, like-minded citizens could have contributed to a fund to buy up the property around Ground Zero to ensure that nothing "offensive" was built too close to the former WTC site. That wasn't done. Is it because people lack foresight, or is it perhaps because this really isn't that important, and is just another excuse for people to spread half-truths and fear? :rolleyes:

[Fozz]

I'd sure like to see a Cathedral built right around the corner from the largest Mosque in Mecca buy I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for these poor peace loving oppressed people to allow it.

Yes, and I would like a mosque to be built near St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican :rolleyes:

What a f-cking stupid analogy.

[virgil47]

Yes, and I would like a mosque to be built near St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican :rolleyes:

What a f-cking stupid analogy.

Okay let's go for downtown in a major Saudi city. Is that better? Still not going to happen is it?

[Fozz]

Okay let's go for downtown in a major Saudi city. Is that better? Still not going to happen is it?

You know, the world has over 1.5 billion Muslims. Saudi Arabia has 25 million. More than 98% of Muslims live outside that country.

[Depressed Liberator]

Would be pretty symbolic if someone does blow up the Mosque, actually.

[MRoCkEd]

"Stefan Molyneux Educational Theater"

llllllllloooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllll

[BlackTerrel]

This guy is getting very very close to incitement to violence. Not sure where they draw the line... but this guy is close.


Would be pretty symbolic if someone does blow up the Mosque, actually.

Won't happen. Hate crimes against Muslims are actually very low. Americans are generally not a very reactionary bunch.

I think they did a poll a while back that Americans think that Muslims are the most targeted group, but actually they are towards the bottom of the list.

This is from 2008:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/data/table_01.html

Anti-black 2,876
Anti-Jewish 1,013
Anti-white 716
Anti-Christian 131
Anti-Muslim 105

Despite all the rhetoric. Not exactly an epidemic

[Toureg89]

YouTube - Ahmed Ahmed - Axis Of Evil Comedy Tour 2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvKq21mpxdU&feature=related)

[dannno]

...I like the "people who bought this also bought" section. Especially the Illuminati book.

Guilt by association much??




Regardless of what really happened on 9/11, radical Islam does want us dead. E.G. "Death to America" is and has been a chant that has been used (right along with "Death to Israel") by these folks for years...many times IN mosques.

The biggest terrorist organization is the US government and essentially those who control it, you have been tricked into being afraid of regular people and you are playing right into the hands of the elite.

Your distorted ideas are leading us to tyranny.

[BlackTerrel]

Okay let's go for downtown in a major Saudi city. Is that better? Still not going to happen is it?

I don't see why stupidity in other countries should lead to more stupidity in our country.

[silentshout]

Scary, sorry but that mentality is scary. It's not right next to the WTC..I can see why people get upset but they are free to build it there. Saying you will "blow it up" is not cool.

[virgil47]

I don't see why stupidity in other countries should lead to more stupidity in our country.

Really? So if another country decided to enslave all black people that would be cool with you? If another country decided to invade and take over all of Europe that would be fine? So if another country decided to shoot all Americans on sight that would be ok with you? You see the actions whether moral, legal or religious of other countries have an effect on our country. We simply do not live in a vacuum.

[Vessol]

Really? So if another country decided to enslave all black people that would be cool with you? If another country decided to invade and take over all of Europe that would be fine? So if another country decided to shoot all Americans on sight that would be ok with you? You see the actions whether moral, legal or religious of other countries have an effect on our country. We simply do not live in a vacuum.

You're a funny guy. Pop a few pills before you have a blood clot dude.

[Toureg89]

Really? So if another country decided to enslave all black people that would be cool with you? If another country decided to invade and take over all of Europe that would be fine? So if another country decided to shoot all Americans on sight that would be ok with you? You see the actions whether moral, legal or religious of other countries have an effect on our country. We simply do not live in a vacuum.

am i ok with an innocent third party's rights being wrongly violated? no.

but if i don't live under the same government that is doing the violating, there is nothing i can do.

if the federal government here wants to violate the rights of christians and jews (which it does regularly), i will try to my best to bring forth my grievance against them.

but i don't live under a despotic muslim theocracy, and as such, there is nothing i can do to bring my grievances against them before them, short of choosing the even lesser evil of not having the federal government represent me by trying to bring "diplomacy" to them.

once we as an american people can establish absolute respect for human rights HERE IN AMERICA, THEN we can worry about other countries.

but i can't be in 2 places at one time, and i am not willing to pay a soldier with a rifle to "represent" my will in a foreign country i can't be in while i try to reform america, so i choose to try to reform the USA before i try to reform the world.

[BlackTerrel]

Really? So if another country decided to enslave all black people that would be cool with you? If another country decided to invade and take over all of Europe that would be fine? So if another country decided to shoot all Americans on sight that would be ok with you? You see the actions whether moral, legal or religious of other countries have an effect on our country. We simply do not live in a vacuum.

This is a huge non sequitur. I don't know where to begin. Let's break this down:

1. No I disagree with your premise. If a white majority country decided to enslave black people that would not be cool with me. But I would not take my frustrations out on white people in this country who have nothing to do with it. That would make no sense.

2. The equivalent of #1 is that you are arguing since Christians are discriminated against in many Muslim countries we should therefore be ok with discriminating against Muslims in this country.

3. #2 is terrible logic. We should strive to be as fair and equitable a society as possible. Irrespective of what happens in other countries.

4. I absolutely agree with you that we should be concerned with the oppression of Christians in many Muslim countries (as well as some non-Muslim countries). I have written about that topic here. It is a topic that does not get nearly enough attention, and as a Christian it bothers me. I have many Arab Christian friends and that is a topic that is near to their hearts. But that should have nothing to do with Muslims in this country.

[virgil47]

This is a huge non sequitur. I don't know where to begin. Let's break this down:

1. No I disagree with your premise. If a white majority country decided to enslave black people that would not be cool with me. But I would not take my frustrations out on white people in this country who have nothing to do with it. That would make no sense.

2. The equivalent of #1 is that you are arguing since Christians are discriminated against in many Muslim countries we should therefore be ok with discriminating against Muslims in this country.

3. #2 is terrible logic. We should strive to be as fair and equitable a society as possible. Irrespective of what happens in other countries.

4. I absolutely agree with you that we should be concerned with the oppression of Christians in many Muslim countries (as well as some non-Muslim countries). I have written about that topic here. It is a topic that does not get nearly enough attention, and as a Christian it bothers me. I have many Arab Christian friends and that is a topic that is near to their hearts. But that should have nothing to do with Muslims in this country.

1. If what you say is true I take my hat off to you. Many black Americans would see this as a white against black issue as they did with South Africa.

2. You've missed the point of number two. If some country decided to invade and take over Europe should we stand idly by and do nothing or should we intercede.

3. If our countrymen were being shot on sight in another country should we just stand by or should we try our best to get our countrymen to safety.

4. I agree that Christianity has become a whipping boy for the left. I also agree that it's a topic that doesn't get nearly the attention that it deserves. I also agree that it "should" have nothing to do with the Muslims in this country. Unfortunately it does indeed have much to do with the Muslims in this country as they continue to support the radical jihadists that we are at war with.

[tremendoustie]

On Wednesday, a man named “Tony” called into the KTRH-AM (Houston, TX) radio show of right-wing radio host Michael Berry in support of the Muslim center. First, Berry asked the caller whether “Tony” was his real name, because with his accent, he didn’t “sound like a ‘Tony.’” He repeatedly tried to link to the mosque to terrorists, eventually saying that if the mosque is built, he hopes someone blows it up:

BERRY: No, Tony, you can’t build a mosque at the site of 9/11.

TONY: Why not? Why not?

BERRY: No, you can’t. And I’ll tell you this: If you do build a mosque, I hope somebody blows it up. … I hope the mosque isn’t built, and if it is, I hope it’s blown up. And I mean that. … It’s right-wing radicals like me that are going to keep this country safe for you and everyone else from the people who are flying the planes from the country you fled from. If you want to identify with those people, go live with them.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/05/28/mosque-bombing-ny/

Well look who's the terrorist now ...

[tremendoustie]

they continue to support the radical jihadists that we are at war with.

Speak for yourself. I'm not at war with anyone.

The US government has been occupying, bombing, and overthrowing governments in the middle east for decades. In response to this, a bunch of psychopathic murderous, very misguided people attacked innocents. Then, the US government decided the best response what to invade and occupy two entire countries, directly leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the displacement of millions, as well as instituting a police state at home.

I'm no fan of anyone who attacks innocent people -- of the terrorists in al qaida, or in washington DC.

What would you do if the Chineese invaded and occupied this country? Would you be pissed? Would you fight back? How about if they dropped a bomb, killing dozens of innocent people, including your family members, along with one "insurgent". Would you be pissed about that? Would you fight back?

I want nothing to do with the US government's wars of aggression, and murder.

[BlackTerrel]

1. If what you say is true I take my hat off to you. Many black Americans would see this as a white against black issue as they did with South Africa.

How so? Did black Americans take their frustrations out by discriminating against white people here in the US? (Due to what was going on in SA).


2. You've missed the point of number two. If some country decided to invade and take over Europe should we stand idly by and do nothing or should we intercede.

I think it depends on the situation. Generally I am non interventionist. Although I could probably think of hypothetical exceptions. Not sure how this is relevant.


3. If our countrymen were being shot on sight in another country should we just stand by or should we try our best to get our countrymen to safety.

Again it would depend on the circumstances. In the hypothetical that a supposedly friendly country just started killing our people over there I'd be in favor of intervening. But again I don't follow how it is relevant.


4. I agree that Christianity has become a whipping boy for the left. I also agree that it's a topic that doesn't get nearly the attention that it deserves. I also agree that it "should" have nothing to do with the Muslims in this country. Unfortunately it does indeed have much to do with the Muslims in this country as they continue to support the radical jihadists that we are at war with.

I agreed with you until the end. Which Muslims are supporting the Jihadists?

[virgil47]

How so? Did black Americans take their frustrations out by discriminating against white people here in the US? (Due to what was going on in SA).



I think it depends on the situation. Generally I am non interventionist. Although I could probably think of hypothetical exceptions. Not sure how this is relevant.



Again it would depend on the circumstances. In the hypothetical that a supposedly friendly country just started killing our people over there I'd be in favor of intervening. But again I don't follow how it is relevant.



I agreed with you until the end. Which Muslims are supporting the Jihadists?

1. Yes. It was in the news on a daily basis. There were marches and protests that disrupted the lives of many people. All whites were condemned as racist.

2. It is relevant in that I thought we were discussing intervention whether based on race or religion.

3. Do we allow American citizens to be shot on site or perhaps we should become isolationists and not allow our citizens to travel.

4. If a Muslim is not actively against jihad then they are passively for it. It will require a modification of the Muslim religion before there are those that are actively against jihad.

[BlackTerrel]

1. Yes. It was in the news on a daily basis. There were marches and protests that disrupted the lives of many people. All whites were condemned as racist.

Link? I'm going to guess that this was a minority of people. And yes I would condemn that.


4. If a Muslim is not actively against jihad then they are passively for it. It will require a modification of the Muslim religion before there are those that are actively against jihad.

You REQUIRE them to change their religion? Who the fuck are you?

[Fozz]

4. If a Muslim is not actively against jihad then they are passively for it.
You pull stupid shit out of your ass, and then when you are questioned about it, you attempt to make assertions that are even more f-cking delusional.



It will require a modification of the Muslim religion before there are those that are actively against jihad.
GTFO of here. You are not interested in freedom.

[virgil47]

"If you aren't with us, you're against us." George W. Bush

I don't like the logic that I have to fight against Jihad because of some morons who are committing terrorist acts. We Muslims have lives too, I certainly am not going to waste my life to please someone notion that Muslims should denounce all acts of violence done in the name Islam, just like I don't expect Catholics to denounce child rapists priests, because I know for the most part, most of them do denounce it...

Well why don't we just paraphrase your statement. "I don't like that I have to fight against racism because of some morons who are committing racist acts. We whites have lives too, I certainly am not going to waste my life to please someones notion that whites should denounce all acts of violence done in the name of being white, just like I don't expect Mexicans to drug runners and murderers, because I know for the most part, most of them do denounce it..."

Logic is logic my friend and if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

[virgil47]

Link? I'm going to guess that this was a minority of people. And yes I would condemn that.



You REQUIRE them to change their religion? Who the fuck are you?

If their religion calls for the death of any and all who do not believe as they do then yes I require that they change their religion because the alternative is a holy war. I for one do not want that do you?

[virgil47]

You pull stupid shit out of your ass, and then when you are questioned about it, you attempt to make assertions that are even more f-cking delusional.


GTFO of here. You are not interested in freedom.

You need to wake up and look around you. I think you'll find things are not as rosy as you believe.

[Toureg89]

4. If a Muslim is not actively against jihad then they are passively for it. It will require a modification of the Muslim religion before there are those that are actively against jihad.
this is the biggest BS i have ever heard.

my dad is a muslim. and he barely has the time to do anything but learn new ways to cook after work, let alone the interest, to campaign against islamic extremism in a region of the world that only exists because of bad US/Western Countries' foreign policies.

your argument is as flawed as the " if they aren't with us, they are against us " reasoning.

oh, and he's a muslim who has not taken a single anti-american action in 50 years/ever. its a complete lie to say "islam" is at war with Americans/Christians.

[virgil47]

this is the biggest BS i have ever heard.

my dad is a muslim. and he barely has the time to do anything but learn new ways to cook after work, let alone the interest, to campaign against islamic extremism in a region of the world that only exists because of bad US/Western Countries' foreign policies.

your argument is as flawed as the " if they aren't with us, they are against us " reasoning.

oh, and he's a muslim who has not taken a single anti-american action in 50 years/ever. its a complete lie to say "islam" is at war with Americans/Christians.

I'm sure your father is a fine man. The question is has he taken any pro American stances in the 50 years he has been here? Is he a practicing Muslim? Does he simply skip the parts of the Koran that call for jihad and the submission/destruction of religions other than Islam? Why don't you ask him?

[Toureg89]

I'm sure your father is a fine man. The question is has he taken any 1. pro American stances in the 50 years he has been here? 2. Is he a practicing Muslim? 3. Does he simply skip the parts of the Koran that call for jihad and the submission/destruction of religions other than Islam? Why don't you ask him?
1. he pays his taxes, and, in effect, supports the American policies of interventionism in favor of Zionism and American supremacy.

is that pro-American enough? pro christian/jewish enough?

he works to support a catholic wife and 2 nonreligious sons.

pro-American for ya (Protestant ethics of, responsibility, hard work)?

i have a family friend who is a former egyptian citizen, current american citizen, current muslim, who lives in switzerland. he's US Army retired. i don't have enough digits on my hand/feet or enough time here to describe my family/family friends who are muslims who aren't at war with america and who don't support anyone who is.

2. yes and no. when he goes to switzerland/morocco, he will pray and attend services, but will not here. i've spoken to him about this, and he feels uncomfortable showing religion here in the states. i have no clue why.

3. he hasn't read the quran since he was a little boy, and my grand father, who was a teacher and also a peaceful muslim, made him study the quran.

20 years of having not read it has had of the effect of him having forgotten his memorizations of the quran.

not all muslims are concerned with the specific material of what is in the Quran. some were just raised to believe that muhammed was the last prophet of God. same as not all christians read/interpret the Bible. many of them were just raised to believe Jesus to be the Son of God.

[BlackTerrel]

If their religion calls for the death of any and all who do not believe as they do then yes I require that they change their religion because the alternative is a holy war. I for one do not want that do you?

You're talking about a very small minority of Muslims.

[virgil47]

You're talking about a very small minority of Muslims.

Perhaps but I have not seen the majority of Muslims condemning the actions of this so called minority. I've been waiting since 9/11 for an uproar of disapproval but it hasn't materialized. I don't know what else to say.

[MelissaWV]

Perhaps but I have not seen the majority of Muslims condemning the actions of this so called minority. I've been waiting since 9/11 for an uproar of disapproval but it hasn't materialized. I don't know what else to say.

A collective group of people owe you, a random US citizen, absolutely nothing. You were not the injured party, and they were not the party that did the injuring. Where you decide that you are owed an apology is beyond all understanding.

Is there an uproar by the majority of US citizens regarding the innocents that are dying right this moment overseas for the sins of people who inhabited their region (but have been dead nearly a decade)?

Your concern is noted. You should have, as I noted earlier, gotten together with like-minded people and pooled resources to purchase all the land in NYC so that no more mosques could be built. This is not a mosque at Ground Zero. This is not an affront to you. This has nothing to do with you, you are not owed an apology, no more than you owe an apology for the blood of many Muslims (many more than 3,000, I might add) who have died in the shadow of 9/11.

Abe is speaking wisdom, and you'd do well to reflect on it.

[virgil47]

A collective group of people owe you, a random US citizen, absolutely nothing. You were not the injured party, and they were not the party that did the injuring. Where you decide that you are owed an apology is beyond all understanding.

Is there an uproar by the majority of US citizens regarding the innocents that are dying right this moment overseas for the sins of people who inhabited their region (but have been dead nearly a decade)?

Your concern is noted. You should have, as I noted earlier, gotten together with like-minded people and pooled resources to purchase all the land in NYC so that no more mosques could be built. This is not a mosque at Ground Zero. This is not an affront to you. This has nothing to do with you, you are not owed an apology, no more than you owe an apology for the blood of many Muslims (many more than 3,000, I might add) who have died in the shadow of 9/11.

Abe is speaking wisdom, and you'd do well to reflect on it.

I wasn't looking for an apology I was looking for concern. It has not materialized. I am aware that the mosque is being built a couple of blocks from ground zero. The Muslim religion is not as caring and faultless as many here would have us believe. Yes there are those that are not into jihad just as there are Catholics that are not into child abuse does that give them a pass when it comes to ferreting out the bad players in there midst? I don't think so. The Muslims and the Catholics should be helping to out the bad guys in there midst. I don't see that happening do you?

[BlackTerrel]

Perhaps but I have not seen the majority of Muslims condemning the actions of this so called minority. I've been waiting since 9/11 for an uproar of disapproval but it hasn't materialized. I don't know what else to say.

What interaction have you had with the majority of Muslims?

They have their own lives. They don't owe you anything.

[Toureg89]

They have their own lives. They don't owe you anything.

my point exactly. the majority of muslims live in backward or third world countries, and probably have to worry about their own rights from being infringed on before they are worried about some wahabbists they dont know, in another part of the world they have never been to, trying to kill US troops they dont know, on non-US soil.

if you ever go to a place of business in Morocco (the closest US ally, and perhaps the most moderate muslim country), you will not see the business that does not have a portrait of the King on the wall.

taken from the words of my father, the business owner without a portrait of the king is the one who is "arrested".

if i was a muslime in Morocco, i'd be much more worried about protecting against human rights abuses in the name of the "War on Terror" than i would be from protecting against human rights abuses by radical islam, sponsored by rich Saudi Wahabbists.

gee, what is more likely, if you are an average Moroccan muslim? the government of Morocco being able to arrest you for being a political opponent of the government but named a "terrorist" by an ally (Morocco) of the country (USA) waging a "War on Terror", or some muslim terrorist group operating in the shadows of a corner of the MidEast (whose only concern is the destruction of america) coming after your family or livelihood?

yeah, i'd go with, your-average-third-world-muslim-just-trying-to-survive (politically and financially)-and-support-his-family for 200$, please.

[Fozz]

If their religion calls for the death of any and all who do not believe as they do then yes I require that they change their religion because the alternative is a holy war. I for one do not want that do you?

Islam does not :rolleyes:

[MelissaWV]

I don't get people saying Muslims live in third world countries....

The reason people say this is because a majority of Muslims do live in third world countries. Of course, the same could be said of many other religions, but you are right... it's not said. When Christianity is discussed, it is instead limited to American Christians, for instance.

American Muslims, who would be the ones building and worshipping at this particular mosque the very very VERY vast majority of the time, do not live in a third world country. They live here, in the US.

People will continue to throw out objections based on ignorance, and blind themselves to any potential solution that might not involve ridiculing and condemning an entire religion and those who practice it. This board is not immune, and we have an overall fairly intelligent collection of denizens. I can only imagine how much idiocy there is elsewhere.

[BlackTerrel]

The reason people say this is because a majority of Muslims do live in third world countries. Of course, the same could be said of many other religions, but you are right... it's not said. When Christianity is discussed, it is instead limited to American Christians, for instance.

American Muslims, who would be the ones building and worshipping at this particular mosque the very very VERY vast majority of the time, do not live in a third world country. They live here, in the US.

People will continue to throw out objections based on ignorance, and blind themselves to any potential solution that might not involve ridiculing and condemning an entire religion and those who practice it. This board is not immune, and we have an overall fairly intelligent collection of denizens. I can only imagine how much idiocy there is elsewhere.

+1

Also keep in mind that American Muslims are, as a whole, an educated class. American Muslims, on average, have higher income than most Americans.

[Toureg89]

i said backward or third world countries: implying that they either live in a politically hostile country (almost every country in the Middle East), or that they live in a country that is much poorer than the US, and they have less time on their hands for leisure, which would make political involvement/time to participate in anti-jihadist social movements more of a challange.

and no, muslims arent the only ones who live in backward/third world countries. as said before, this can be the example for most religions.

but muslims are the only ones being attacked in this thread.

[virgil47]

What interaction have you had with the majority of Muslims?

They have their own lives. They don't owe you anything.

I've had the same interaction with the majority of Muslims that you have had with the majority of whites. I read and listen to the news as it is not possible to be in all places at all times.

Indeed they do have their own lives as I do. Are you suggesting in the same vein that whites don't owe blacks anything because whites have their own lives? Somehow I think your thought processes will be different.

[virgil47]

Islam does not :rolleyes:

Really? When was the last time you read the Koran? Do you know what a dhimmi is? Is not the submission of ones religion to Islam the same as death?

[BlackTerrel]

I've had the same interaction with the majority of Muslims that you have had with the majority of whites. I read and listen to the news as it is not possible to be in all places at all times.

Indeed they do have their own lives as I do. Are you suggesting in the same vein that whites don't owe blacks anything because whites have their own lives? Somehow I think your thought processes will be different.

Where have I said that white people owe me something? You may be confusing me for someone else.

If the Klan were to lynch a black person I would blame the Klan. Not all white people. Same thing here.

[tremendoustie]

Where have I said that white people owe me something? You may be confusing me for someone else.

If the Klan were to lynch a black person I would blame the Klan. Not all white people. Same thing here.

Exactly.

I haven't been replying to all this, but I like BT's perspective.

[virgil47]

Where have I said that white people owe me something? You may be confusing me for someone else.

If the Klan were to lynch a black person I would blame the Klan. Not all white people. Same thing here.

So you are not a fan of affirmative action or the so called hate crime laws? If that is the case then I stand corrected.

[BlackTerrel]

So you are not a fan of affirmative action or the so called hate crime laws? If that is the case then I stand corrected.

That's not a simple yes or no and I'm not going to debate this.

What are we talking about here? We have a radio host advocating for blowing up a Mosque!!!! WTF are you defending???

I would NEVER advocate blowing up a "white Church" or any other white institution due to racism of other white people. Mainly because I am not a psycho.

[virgil47]

That's not a simple yes or no and I'm not going to debate this.

What are we talking about here? We have a radio host advocating for blowing up a Mosque!!!! WTF are you defending???

I would NEVER advocate blowing up a "white Church" or any other white institution due to racism of other white people. Mainly because I am not a psycho.

I certainly do not advocate blowing up any place of worship however if the said place of worship was to be constructed on a site such as ground zero (9/11) I would do everything within my power to stop the construction. As this Mosque is not really going to be all that close to ground zero I'm not sure what the fuss is about although I can see why many are unhappy that a place of worship that represents those that destroyed the towers is going to be built anywhere near the ground zero. This response by the general public is normal and to be expected. If the Mosque in question were to be built as a statement of solidarity with the U.S. and its people there would likely be minimal outcry and perhaps even acceptance.

[Fozz]

Really? When was the last time you read the Koran? Do you know what a dhimmi is? Is not the submission of ones religion to Islam the same as death?

Yes, I know what a dhimmi is. Non-Muslims in medieval Muslim societies had fewer rights than Muslims, but many still lived pretty good lives, such as in Moorish Spain.

[Fozz]

Where have I said that white people owe me something? You may be confusing me for someone else.

If the Klan were to lynch a black person I would blame the Klan. Not all white people. Same thing here.

Virgil47 is a neocon troll.

[Fozz]

So you are not a fan of affirmative action or the so called hate crime laws?
Most people here aren't :rolleyes:

[virgil47]

Virgil47 is a neocon troll.

And you belong on Stormfront!

[virgil47]

So you don't know what a Dhimmis is then....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

Of course I know what a dhimmi is. What makes you think that I did not?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Berry apologized for this the next day. He said that when people keep pushing and pushing someone eventually they will say something wrong.

No, they will say what they actually believe.

[BlackTerrel]

No, they will say what they actually believe.

+1