Memorial Day Thread. (please bump)

[pcosmar]

In memory and respect for all those that have taken the Oath.
To all Veterans. Present Service members and Patriots,
Happy Memorial Day.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4649551287_b477011ac1_b.jpg

:cool:

[nayjevin]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2n6b045.jpg (http://amconmag.com/article/2010/jul/01/00006/)

http://amconmag.com/article/2010/jul/01/00006/

[pacelli]

'Support the troops, bring them home' bump.

YouTube - Paul vs. Huckabee on the surge. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9sA5FQfE1E#t=1m51s)

[Fredom101]

I don't support war, I don't support killing, I don't support the warrior, I do not support the troops.

[VegasPatriot]

I don't support war, I don't support killing, I don't support the warrior, I do not support the troops.
This is a Memorial Day thread. Please respect the topic:

"In memory and respect for all those that have taken the Oath.
To all Veterans. Present Service members and Patriots,
Happy Memorial Day."

Thanks Pete... for keeping your oath.

[Agorism]

Blood for Bush-Obama day

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3082816263_2874f1baf2.jpg

[MelissaWV]

This is a Memorial Day thread. Please respect the topic:

"In memory and respect for all those that have taken the Oath.
To all Veterans. Present Service members and Patriots,
Happy Memorial Day."

Thanks Pete... for keeping your oath.

Respect? On this board? It's unlikely.

It would also do for people to read the words on the picture that was posted in the OP. Perhaps people could stop being so harsh and high and mighty and ponder the impact that veterans recommitting themselves to the Constitution and to the freedom of the people has.

This movement is filled with very respectable veterans of various wars and peacetimes. Before another poster decides they want to use the opportunity to make a snide remark about "all the troops" and "soldiers in general," they would do well to remember that.

Thank you for this thread, Pete, and for so much more. I hope I'm proven wrong, and that from here on out only kind words are posted :)

[Anti Federalist]

While I have sympathy with the "harsh" posters, in that I'm not too keen on memorializing the state's enforcers, out of a deep respect I have for men like Pete, and Ron and Gunny and all the rest working to restore freedom rather than crush it out, Happy Memorial Day.

May there come a time when we won't have to have such a thing.

[Agorism]

Isn't Memorial Day a celebration of the sacrifice and power in the modern world?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/442912011_e5d6200f82.jpg

http://chadjardine.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/tillman.jpg

http://apwhwiki.pbworks.com/f/aztecs.gif

[pcosmar]

Isn't Memorial Day a celebration of the sacrifice and power in the modern world?


No.
It is a day of remembrance for those that chose (for whatever reason) to serve their country and their fellow man.

[FSP-Rebel]

While I have sympathy with the "harsh" posters, in that I'm not too keen on memorializing the state's enforcers, out of a deep respect I have for men like Pete, and Ron and Gunny and all the rest working to restore freedom rather than crush it out, Happy Memorial Day.

May there come a time when we won't have to have such a thing.
Right on, man!

[helmuth_hubener]

"Harsh" posters: To understand the pro-liberty people who are OK with Memorial Day, think of it as memorializing those who really did fight for liberty in the American Revolutionary War. I'm not saying that was a perfect war either, but it *was* justified, and fought on behalf of true libertarian/classical liberal principles. Or think of it as memorializing V from V for Vendetta. Or the Chinese man with the lunch bag standing in the way of the tanks in Tiananmen Square. That is how they think of it, I think -- as honoring true heroism in a noble cause.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/Tianasquare.jpg/300px-Tianasquare.jpg

Like you, I don't really "support the troops" either, but I do support them as human beings who are part of humanity. I think it would be nice if they could stay alive instead of dying pointlessly for the schemes of evil men.

The war propaganda machine is strong and deeply culturally entrenched. Even many pro-liberty people are attracted to join the military. This is an attraction I do not share nor understand, but it exists just the same. It can turn to our advantage in things like the Kokesh for Congress campaign. Even the Ron Paul movement benefited from his involvement in the military, giving him credibility in some people's minds, leading to their minds being open to the message of liberty.

[7402]

I support the troops, not because I support being lied into war and nation-building, but precisely because I don't. American soldiers have a right to their lives, and it is a violation of that right to send them to fight for any reason other than defense from external aggression.

"This Memorial Day, we must call for a stop to the sacrifice of our soldiers and condemn all those who demand it."

Stop the sacrifice of American soldiers. (http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-peace/4964-Memorial-Day-What-Owe-Our-Soldiers.html)

[VegasPatriot]

Nice video: (http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/?bcrefid=866157386#/Iraq/Portraits+of++the+Fallen/57707019001/58795775001/51748824001)

[/URL][url]http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/?bcrefid=866157386#/Iraq/Portraits+of++the+Fallen/57707019001/58795775001/51748824001 (http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/?bcrefid=866157386#/Iraq/Portraits+of++the+Fallen/57707019001/58795775001/51748824001)

[Justinjj1]

An article I thought was funny.

http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/784/fuck-the-troops/


These are not the best we have to offer, although they may indeed be the most typical. I am speaking of the distinct, undeniably creeping stench of trash – po’ white trash above all, but all those who, under the guise of sacrifice and duty, sign away their lives because not even the local community college will accept someone so deficient in the intellectual arts. I simply refuse to salute anyone who has chosen a career path out of sheer desperation and the self-serving drive to fund that which is impossible to achieve by merit or scholarship. It isn’t Uncle Sam and the ghosts of our war dead that push our Jethros, our Jim Bobs, and our Crystals onto distant shores, it is the acquisition of job skills and a piece of parchment that will allow them to leave the double-wide behind forevermore.



So while you attend your parades and place hand over heart, I will be immersed in my shame. Tho’ the uniforms be crisp and the boots be shiny, the skin beneath them houses the opportunist, the breeder, or the dropout. And if all you have to say to me is that I speak out of ignorance or the arrogance of a man too afraid to fight, I say that is no argument indeed. Of course I do not wish to be shot, and yes, I would be pissing my pants on the flight over, but I am honest enough to admit that I have no desire to defend the interests of those who do not represent the principles I hold dear. And neither do they, the soldiers, only they cannot speak openly about their naked self-interest. They cling to love of country, but it is nothing of the sort. The only alternative to selfish goals is a genuine ignorance; a willingness to accept the party line from the top brass. If that is the case, my point regarding their simple natures is proven. For no one with even a shred of decency or intellectual honesty would believe that our current engagements are in defense of liberty and justice for all. If it turns into Red Dawn, I’ll polish my rifle and meet you at the front. But until then, I won’t die for the soccer mom and her perceived right to drive a Hummer.

[Golding]

I've got respect for people who join the military for noble reasons. Those that joined to serve their country and fellow man, I definitely respect them and the people who died trying to do what they believed was right. Often times I find military folk very knowledgeable about history, and have a fair sense in calling out BS when they see someone spewing it.

The only mixed feelings I have about Memorial Day is over an unfortunate few I've met who simply liked to kill. I don't respect that. I don't respect that people fight wars that they don't believe in or struggle to justify, though I understand that they have little choice otherwise.

[libertarian4321]

An article I thought was funny.

http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/784/fuck-the-troops/

The guy who wrote this has no clue about who enters the military.

The average soldiers is NOT from a poverty stricken family. Most are middle class. Very few come from wealthy families, but very few come from the "bottom of the barrel" either. Contrary to what Michael Moore would have you believe, extremely poor areas, whether inner-city ghettos or rural districts, are not good recruiting grounds because a large percentage of the people in those areas aren't good enough to get into the military.

Also, the average person in the military is more intelligent than the average American- that may seem counter-intuitive, but it's true.

[eOs]

Happy Memorial Day

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/madhatterdisease/americaneagle.jpg

[MelissaWV]

Bumped.

[IPSecure]

YouTube - SSgt Barry Sadler, Ballad of the green beret (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4-tOqLH94)

[Old Ducker]

In the pioneer cemetary here, there is a "civil war" edifice that features a large equestrian statue surrounded by rings of graves of oregonians who died in that conflict, both union and confederate. I discovered it upon wanderings after the gravesite funeral for one of my grandmothers there, long ago. Thinking about them is what memorial day is all about to me. In my mind, there's no better way to appreciate war than to visit a cemetary.

[Ninja Homer]

I don't support war, I don't support killing, I don't support the warrior, I do not support the troops.

We've all heard it before. Most of us wouldn't disagree with you, including Ron Paul who specifically requested that Aimee Allen sing "Universal Soldier" at the Rally For The Republic. But with all due respect, that's not what this thread is about, so...
Start your own damn thread!

Happy Memorial Day!

Thank you to all Veterans who intended to give up at least a part of their life for the service of this great country, but especially thanks to all who took the oath to uphold the Constitution, took it seriously, took the time to understand it, and continue to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Bump.

[VegasPatriot]

YouTube - The Oath is an Individual Obligation - Stewart Rhodes Oath Keepers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R14oijhrEZE)

[MelissaWV]

http://www.citizensam.org/graphics/Thank-you-2.jpg

[Natalie]

Happy Memorial Day!

[lynnf]

I don't support war, I don't support killing, I don't support the warrior, I do not support the troops.


hey, dude, your beef is with the civilians that say when/where the military goes to war, not the rank-and-file.

lynn

[VegasPatriot]

YouTube - Oath Keepers in Fall Of The Republic Extras: Oath Keepers (1 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGymwfb4m4)

[pcosmar]

This thread is not about "glorifying" War.
It is not a celebration.

It is a remembrance. It is about those that chose to serve, and those that died in service.
Regardless of whether they fully understood, and regardless of the wars they were ordered to fight.

Remember those that have been lost.
And for those that live,, Remember your oath.

[Carole]

I do not support these current wars but I do support our troops.

Thank you to our troops.

[MelissaWV]

This thread deserves to be over the anti-troop one.

[phill4paul]

This thread is not about "glorifying" War.
It is not a celebration.

It is a remembrance. It is about those that chose to serve, and those that died in service.
Regardless of whether they fully understood, and regardless of the wars they were ordered to fight.

Remember those that have been lost.
And for those that live,, Remember your oath.

I cold not have said it better myself, Peter. Thank you for clarifying for those that do not understand.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/3254115485_6b81c85742.jpg

[georgiaboy]

bump. Happy Memorial Day.
Remembering the fallen for making the ultimate sacrifice.

[phill4paul]

A reminder amidst the news of the day.

[libertybrewcity]

ill give it a bump

[libertybrewcity]

'Support the troops, bring them home' bump.

YouTube - Paul vs. Huckabee on the surge. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9sA5FQfE1E#t=1m51s)

how many people still support the war? would ron's message have greater reception today then in 2008?

[Anti Federalist]

how many people still support the war? would ron's message have greater reception today then in 2008?

Not according to recent polling.

And events surrounding the GoM spill and reaction to that will assure that we continue invading oil bearing nations for the foreseeable future.

[BlackTerrel]

Thanks for posting this thread. You have nothing but my respect and admiration.


"Harsh" posters: To understand the pro-liberty people who are OK with Memorial Day, think of it as memorializing those who really did fight for liberty in the American Revolutionary War. I'm not saying that was a perfect war either, but it *was* justified, and fought on behalf of true libertarian/classical liberal principles.

Yes :rolleyes: They fought for liberty and justice meanwhile a number of them OWNED slaves back home. It's easy to look at people in the past as being ideal - they weren't. Americans are more free now than we were in 1776 - at least my ancestors.

[helmuth_hubener]

BlackTerrel,

Modern popular philosophy has elevated hypocrisy to be the last great cardinal sin -- the only sin, in fact. Hypocrisy is the only act that it is OK to completely and without equivocation condemn, for it is this condemnation of hypocrisy, which buttresses the argument for throwing out absolute morality and principles altogether. Hypocrisy, conveniently enough, can be found everywhere. Thus it can always and everywhere be brought out in order to mock, sneer at, and dismiss anyone who stood for something in life, anyone who had well-defined principles.

The American colonists were hypocrites. That is true. They were some of the best hypocrites who ever lived. I, for one, am proud to be a hypocrite along with them. I gladly continue their hypocritical struggle for liberty, justice, truth, and other various naive and hypocritical moral standards.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

This thread is not about "glorifying" War.
It is not a celebration.

It is a remembrance. It is about those that chose to serve, and those that died in service.
Regardless of whether they fully understood, and regardless of the wars they were ordered to fight.

Remember those that have been lost.
And for those that live,, Remember your oath.

Does this page mean I can criticize Rand for being a jackass flip-flopping on the unconstitutional application of the commerce clause and it won't get moved to hot topics?

Does it mean I can criticize people like myself who serve the aristocracy perpetuating these wars that will bring this country to ruin?

Should I be proud of this page?
http://i48.tinypic.com/idgoph.jpg

[BlackTerrel]

Does this page mean I can criticize Rand for being a jackass flip-flopping on the unconstitutional application of the commerce clause and it won't get moved to hot topics?

Does it mean I can criticize people like myself who serve the aristocracy perpetuating these wars that will bring this country to ruin?

How does everything turn into something anti-Rand?

Of all the people running for Senate RAND is the one you want to criticize? Really?

[Bman]

Wishing a great memorial day for all our service men and women who visit this site.

Thank You.

[Brian4Liberty]

USS Intrepid (CV-11)

25 November 1944, shortly after noon: A heavy force of Japanese aircraft struck back at the carriers. Within five minutes, two kamikazes crashed into the carrier. (Actual report from Air Group 18 states "sixty were dead, fifteen missing, and about one hundred wounded." Intrepid never lost propulsion nor left her station in the task group, and in less than two hours had extinguished the last blaze.

Lou Valenti, USS Intrepid (CV-11)

Lou Valenti was a signalman on Intrepid's bridge on November 25, 1944. He watched the first kamikaze come down through the flight deck, and was making a report to the officers when a second one hit. Grabbing a pair of binoculars, he watched for hours for enemy planes after the kamikaze attacks. He was deeply affected by the scenes of death and destruction he saw that day, like all Intrepid crewmen who survived.

“The first one comes down through the flight deck a little bit aft. And he probably had a general purpose bomb and the bomb went off just as it passed through the flight deck and went off in midair and killed about 32 radar men waiting to go on watch in the ready room back by the parachute loft."

Ed Coyne, USS Intrepid (CV-11)

Ed Coyne was on board USS Intrepid when it was hit by two kamikazes on November 25, 1944. He lost many friends that day. Fifty-eight years later, he shared his experiences for the high school students working on Day of the Kamikaze.

“We were young people remember, not like we are now, we saw death and destruction. We saw bodies, we saw arms, we saw legs all over the hangar deck. And certain details had to get as much as they could and put it together and then they put them in body bags, canvas bags. And there was no bury-there was-was no burial where you went to the funeral parlor, what have you. They were put in body bags and the next day they were buried at sea. Their family never saw or heard from them again.

“ One thing that I’d like to say about the ship and the crew. The ship never gave up. The crew never gave up. We were well trained by the Navy people and we went through training. And where you’re scared? Sure you were scared. Nobody wants to die. But you always did what you had to do. And you always helped your shipmates or what have you in any way that you could. And, again, it was quite an experience. We’re the lucky ones. We lived through it. We got to get home in the United States, we got raise our families, we got take a career, whatever it may be, over the years, and we’re old enough to retire.”

---

The crew of USS Intrepid, like most of the sailors in the fleet, heard the ship’s general alarm while they were at lunch. Scrambling to their guns, it wasn't long before they were under attack. Two kamikazes penetrated Intrepid's antiaircraft umbrella. One, piloted by Suehiro Ikeda, penetrated the flight deck and caused extensive fires on the hangar deck. Kohichi Nunoda’s aircraft hit Intrepid four minutes later, killing most of the firefighting party on the hangar deck. Intrepid burned for four hours. Sixty-five Americans were killed in the attack:

Bauer, Oswald S1/c
Bracken, James S2/c
Bearden, Harry ART1/c
Casteel, Charles S1/c
Colwell, George S2/c
Compton, Clyde S1/c
Cooke, Odell S2/c*
Cooper, Hugh S1/c
Darden, Elton S1/c
Darnauer, Henry S1/c
Davis, Russell S1/c*
Defedele, Louis S1/c
D'Ermenegildo, David S2/c
DiMarzo, Dom Lt*
Dousay, Willie S1/c
Fischer, John S1/c
Fiore, Vito S1/c*
Fish, John L.Cmdr
Folletta, Emil S1/c
Frank, Howard Lt (jg)
Gattey, John Ens
Grieg, Wallace S2/c
Hamblin, Will AMM2/c*
Hanke, John S1/c
Hecker, Nathan ACRT
Helms, Loumas S1/c
Hentosh, Alexander S1/c
Hitt, Samuel Carp.
Hjelmeng, Eldon Acom
Hope, Raymond S1/c*
Hurd, Donald TM3/c*
Kahler, Vernon EM3/c*
Krouch, Dean S1/c
Kuhns, Robert S1/c
Lasater, Delmar “B” PHM3/c
Mancini, Joseph F1/c*
Martin, Merl S1/c
McDonald, John “Jay” S1/c
Morgan, Robert S1/c
Matiaz, William Hennon HA1/c
Nelson, Sern Calvin AMM1/c
Nieto, Richard RdM3/c
Peterson, Cecil S1/c
Robinson, Laurence RdM3/c
Rucinski, Raymond COX
Schnack, Harold AMM3/c
Schultz, Walter S1/c
Schulz, Burhl S1/c
Schug, Robert MM3/c
Sides, Horace S1/c
Smith, William Donalson PHM2/c
Sorenson, Earl S1/c
Steffen, Kenneth S1/c
Steffens, Eskew S1/c
Tucker, Harold “Jack” S2/c
Van Every, Norvel S2/c
Wallace, Reginald ACMM
Ward, John PHM3/c
Wells, Harry S2/c
Whatley, George S1/c
White, Albert S2/c
White, Harold S1/c
Whitner, Henry Lt
Whittington, Ralph S1/c
Williey, Lyle TMV3/c
Winslow, James PHM2/c
Wood, Lumpkin ACMM
Yoder, Charles RdM3/c
Zeig, Harold RdM3/c*

[phill4paul]

I'm bumping this post again because of an e-mail from a friend of mine. I've been busy and have only now stumbled across it. I reprint it, in part, here knowing full well that my friend would not mind. Please read the history of his father. Then read the wonderful prose my friend wrote. Trust me that it is not tldr material. Read it. Please.

"On Memorial Day we have the privlege of paying due homage to those who have served this country, defended our freedom, and given so much so we may live our lives as we choose. Too many of these brave men and women have given their lives and I do offer my sincerest salute to every one living or past who has served our country. I am thankful to all. I would like to take this opportunity to share with you, if you can bear with me for a few lines,

The deeds and service on one in particular. One very dear and near to me, CHARLES AMBROSE CURTIS, my Father.

This man went to war at age 17 in the US Navy. He served in many confrontations and was recruited into the NCDU/UDT (Naval combat demolition units / Underwater Demolition Teams--The predecesors of the Navy SEALS). These few hundred men were recruited and trained to prepare the beaches of Normandy for the D Day invasion.

My dad and his teams swam ( as much as 5 miles in open ocean in the black of night) onto the beaches to set their charges and rig the explosives that would hopefully clear the proper areas so the landing craft and soldiers could land and storm the beach.

They swam to the destinations with nothing but blackened bodies, swim trunks, wire and explosives. they never knew what or who they might meet and even if they were detected or not.

They set their charges and then swam back to the ships.

On the morning of the invasion he and his teams boarded landing craft along with the fully armed soldiers but they had no armament or weapons. They were there to insure their work from the night before was successful so they went in. Once the landing craft was subjected to the shelling and relentless machine gun fire and many craft were lost before even reaching the beach, he and his mates went over into the water and made their way to the beaches as best they could.

The rest of the stories of D Day you already know but these men did their jobs and are rarely mentioned in the accounts of that day.

Over 2/3 of the UDT teams were lost on D Day but those who made it continued on, picking up weapons as they could and fought that day for victory and survival.
My Dad had not yet reached his 20th birthday and is today the last remaining member of his original unit.

Once the European war was over the surviving members of the teams and those recruited and trained after them went to the Pacific theater to apply their skills and continue their heroic efforts against the Japanese.

What hell they went through and I am proud and honored to even know this man let alone call him my Dad.

He has been my hero and inspiration all my life. He taught me honor and chivalry long before I even knew what they meant and if I am ever half the man as my Father is I will count my life an overwhelming success.
"Thank God for you and those like you". God Bless you all.

Although I did my service in the Navy I did it after the Vietnam war was over. I was one of the lucky ones that did not get drafted.... So after many years of struggling I wrote the following poem to that person who was not so lucky that day of the draft lottery when his birthday was chosen instead of mine so with all humility and praise I offer this on Memorial Day to him:

TO THE ONE WHO TOOK MY PLACE


To those of them who fought the war
when their country came to call
all of them gave some
and some of them gave all

I raise a cup in honor
so every one will know
they went through hell there for me
because I didn't have to go

They held their heads up proudly
and marched to foreign lands
to bid their nation's duty
and answer her demands

With every name of every man
is a debt I'll always owe
'cause one of them went for me
so I wouldn't have to go

He took up arms and went to war
and left his loved ones here
and while my days were filled with life
his held death and fear

So I drink a toast of gratitude
that's been felt since long ago
for the one who went there for me
so I wouldn't have to go

For him I offer homage
and ask a solemn prayer
for pain he had to suffer
because I wasn't there

So when I touch names on the wall
and look death face to face
I know any soul entombed within
could be the one who took my place."

[nayjevin]

So I drink a toast of gratitude
that's been felt since long ago
for the one who went there for me
so I wouldn't have to go

For him I offer homage
and ask a solemn prayer
for pain he had to suffer
because I wasn't there

So when I touch names on the wall
and look death face to face
I know any soul entombed within
could be the one who took my place."

epic.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Let us never forget that it was Confederate Widows who started Memorial Day by visiting their fallen loved ones. Memorial Day SHOULD be a day of remembrance about the bloodiest, most obscene and vile war our ancestors took part in: The War of Southern Independence (aka The Civil War). Over 600,000 killed and total casualties (civilian/military and wounded/killed) over 1 million.

[helmuth_hubener]

Let us never forget that it was Confederate Widows who started Memorial Day by visiting their fallen loved ones. Memorial Day SHOULD be a day of remembrance about the bloodiest, most obscene and vile war our ancestors took part in: The War of Southern Independence (aka The Civil War). Over 600,000 killed and total casualties (civilian/military and wounded/killed) over 1 million.
I had no idea. Thanks for the info.