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Sentient Void
05-26-2010, 08:03 PM
Many of us go about it all wrong.

He makes some very good points here, particularly in the last paragraph. I know I always get into the economics and morality of the philosophy of liberty, with debates that can go on for hours... sometimes I convince others, many times I do not... sometimes it takes months of discussion before someone is 'converted'. Others will *never* be converted by such methods... definitely a good read, one all of us need to absorb.

Enjoy!

http://www.lostlibertycafe.com/index.php/2009/11/14/the-gun-in-the-room/



One of the most difficult – and essential – challenges faced by libertarians is the constant need to point out “the gun in the room.” In political debates, it can be very hard to cut through the endless windy abstractions that are used to cover up the basic fact that the government uses guns to force people to do what they do not want to do, or prevent them from doing what they do want to do. Listening to non-libertarians, I often wish I had a “euphemism umbrella” to ward off the continual oily drizzle of words and phrases designed to obscure the simple reality of state violence. We hear nonstop nonsense about the “social good,” the “redistribution of income,” the “education of children” and so on – endless attempts to bury the naked barrel of the state in a mountain of syrupy metaphors.

It is a wearying but essential task to keep reminding people that the state is nothing but an agency of violence. When someone talks about “the welfare state helping the poor,” we must point out the gun in the room. When someone opposes the decriminalization of marijuana, we must point out the gun in the room. When someone supports the reduction of taxes, we must point out the gun in the room – even if one bullet has been taken out.

So much political language is designed to obscure the simple reality of state violence that libertarianism sometimes has to sound like a broken record. We must, however, continue to peel back the euphemisms to reveal the socially-sanctioned brutality at the root of some of our most embedded social institutions.

I was recently involved in a debate with a woman about public schools. Naturally, she came up with reason after reason as to why public schools were beneficial, how wonderful they were for underprivileged children, how essential they were for social stability etc etc. Each of these points – and many more – could have consumed hour upon hour of back and forth, and would have required extensive research and complicated philosophical reasoning. But there was really no need for any of that – all I had to do was keep saying:

“The issue is not whether public schools are good or bad, but rather whether I am allowed to disagree with you without getting shot.”

Most political debates really are that simple. People don’t get into violent debates about which restaurant is best because the state doesn’t impose one restaurant on everyone – and shoot those trying to set up competing restaurants. The truth is that I couldn’t care less about this woman’s views on education – just as she couldn’t care less about my views – but we are forced to debate because we are not allowed to hold opposing views without one of us getting shot. That was the essence of our debate, and as long as it remained unacknowledged, we weren’t going to get anywhere.

Here’s another example. A listener to my ‘Freedomain Radio’ show posted the following comment on the message board:

"If you say 'Government A doesn’t work,' you are really saying that the way that individuals in that society are interacting is lacking in some way. There are many threads in this forum that address the real debate. This thread’s counterarguments all focus on government vs. free market society. The rules defining a free market are all agreed upon interactions at some level, just as a government is. Don’t debate that a government is using guns to force others, when it’s really individuals with guns, instead show how the other way will have less guns forcing others or how those guns could force others in a more beneficial way."

I responded in this manner:

"But – and I’m sorry if I misunderstand you – government is force, so I’m not sure how to interpret your paragraph. Let me substitute another use of force to show my confusion:

'If you say that rape doesn’t work you are really saying that the way that individuals in that society are interacting is lacking in some way. There are many threads in this forum that address the real debate. This thread’s counterarguments all focus on rape vs. dating. The rules defining dating are all agreed upon interactions at some level, just as rape is. Don’t debate that a group of rapists is forcing others, when it’s really individual rapists, instead show how the other way will have fewer rapists forcing others or how those rapists could force others in a more beneficial way.”

Do you see my confusion?

Thanks!"

It is a very helpful sign for the future of society that these euphemisms exist – in fact, I would not believe in the moral superiority of a stateless society if these euphemisms did not exist! If, every time I pointed out to people that their political positions all required that I get shot or arrested, they just growled: “Sure, I got no problem with that – in fact, if you keep disagreeing with me I’m going to shoot you myself!” – then, I would find it very hard to argue for a stateless society!

In more than 20 years of debating these issues, though, I’ve never met a single soul who wants to either shoot me himself or have someone else shoot me. I take enormous solace in this fact, because it explains exactly why these euphemisms are so essential to the maintenance and increase of state power.

The reason that euphemisms are constantly used to obscure “the gun in the room” is the simple fact that people don’t like violence very much. Most people will do almost anything to avoid a violent situation. Even the most bloodthirsty supporter of the Iraq invasion would have a hard time justifying the proposition that anybody who opposed the invasion should be shot – because it was to defend such freedoms that Iraq was supposed to have been invaded in the first place! But how can I have the right to oppose the invasion of Iraq if I am forced to pay for it through taxation? Surely that is a ridiculous contradiction, like arguing that a man has a right to free speech, and also that he should be arrested for speaking his mind. If I have the right to oppose the invasion, surely I cannot be forced to fund it. If I am forced to fund it, then any right I have to “oppose” it is purely imaginary.

In essence, then, all libertarian arguments come down to one single, simple statement:

“Put down the gun, then we’ll talk.”

This is the core morality of both libertarianism and civilization. Civilized people do not shoot each other when they disagree – decent people do not wave guns in each other’s faces and demand submission or blood. Political leaders know this very well – I would say better than many libertarians do – and so constantly obscure the violence of their actions and laws with mealy-mouthed and euphemistic weasel words. Soldiers aren’t murdered, they “fall.” Iraq wasn’t invaded, but “liberated.” Politicians aren’t our political masters, they are “civil servants,” and so on and on.

Although libertarianism is generally considered a radical doctrine, the primary task of the libertarian is to continually reinforce the basic reality that almost everyone already is a libertarian. If we simply keep asking people if they are willing to shoot others in order to get their way, we can very quickly convince them that libertarianism is not an abstract, radical or fringe philosophy, but rather a simple description of the principles by which they already live their lives. If you get fired, do you think that you should hold your manager hostage until he gives you back your job? No? Then you already hold a libertarian position on unions, tariffs, and corporate subsidies. If you find your teenage son in your basement smoking marijuana, would you shoot him? No? Then you already hold a libertarian position on the drug laws. Should those who oppose war be shot for their beliefs? No? Then you already hold a libertarian position with regards to taxation.

Like the scientific method, libertarianism’s greatest strength is its uncompromising simplicity. The enforcement of property rights leads to an immensely complex economy, but the morality of property rights is very simple – would you shoot a man in order to steal his property? The same complexity arises from the simple and universal application of the non-aggression principle. It’s so easy to get lost in the beguiling complexities and forget to keep enunciating the basic principles.

So forget about esoteric details. Forget about the history of the Fed and the economics of the minimum wage. Just keep pointing out the gun in the room, over and over, until the world finally starts awake and drops it in horror and loathing.

I *especially* loved the rape analogy. Wonderful!

QueenB4Liberty
05-26-2010, 08:51 PM
I like him. Good article. But to some extent I think I've had that conversation with people and sadly I don't think they care if we are shot. As long as they get their free goodies.

Au-H2O
05-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Very nice!

Expatriate
05-26-2010, 10:50 PM
Nice... I just showed my ole pal Roger the piece and now he's sprinting off to the corner bar to try it out on some poor unsuspecting victims. Wish I could join him but I have to work early tomorrow.

BuddyRey
05-26-2010, 10:55 PM
Here's another indispensable article on libertarian outreach, this one by Michael Cloud. He cites a very negative behavior that I know I've engaged in before, and offers some ideas for avoiding it.

http://www.mi.lp.org/Lists/SuccessNotebook/DispForm.aspx?ID=10


It was a large and expensive home. The architecture radiated impeccable taste. Seated around the dining table were five people: three moderates, a conservative and a libertarian. The conservative was a multimillionaire -- and a generous political contributor. After dinner she turned to the libertarian and said, "Our hosts tell me you're a libertarian. Maybe I'm a little naive, but I don't know what that word means. Could you tell me about your beliefs?"

"Sure. I can explain them in a sentence: 'Fuck the State!' Libertarians want to get rid of as much government as they can."

The woman was stunned. She dropped the subject and guided the conversation into other areas. In her mind, two things were associated with 'libertarian': bad manners and gutter language.

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In the early 1960's, a student asked a spokesman for Objectivism what would happen to the poor in a free society. The spokesman answered, "If you want to help them, you will not be stopped." What did the student conclude? That Objectivists are indifferent to human need, callous toward the unfortunate, and without solutions to the misery of poverty.

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In the early 1970's, on the University of Arizona campus, libertarians set up an information table each week. Armed with the latest books, magazines and position papers, these libertarians tried to bring their views to the attention of other students. One day a student stopped at the table and asked, "What do you think of Social Security? What kind of help would the elderly get in your free society?"

The student behind the table was an old hand; he had heard the question many times. He responded, "The government has no right to force people to pay Social Security taxes. Taxation is theft. Government has no right to steal from one group of citizens to benefit another. If people don't save money for old age, they have no right to coerce it from those who are working. We should abolish Social Security."

The questioner was shocked. "You want to dump Social Security and abolish taxes? Sure! Maybe we can do without government, too! You don't give a damn about old people. All you care about is your own stinking money!"

This last story is a little painful -- I was the libertarian behind the table.

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These are three examples of The Libertarian Macho Flash. Most people are familiar with 'flashing' -- sexual exhibitionism. The common scenario is this: A middle-aged, average-looking man approaches a small group of women or children. He is wearing a raincoat, false trouser legs and shoes. The man whips open his raincoat to exhibit his naked body. His viewers are shocked, and he leaves before they recover.

The Libertarian Macho Flash has much in common with sexual exhibitionism. A common-looking person exposes his political beliefs in a shocking way. Invariably, he disgusts people or at least shakes them up. The Libertarian Macho Flasher displays his views in the most offensive way or exhibits whichever views are most likely to offend the audience.

Are some libertarian positions offensive? Not to libertarians. But supporters of other viewpoints may be offended. It depends on the audience. What would enrapture a feminist might offend an educational choice supporter. A liberal might be shocked by a statement that would make a conservative's heart soar. To determine what would flash an audience, a speaker must know who he's talking to and what they believe. He must understand their loves and hates, their hopes and fears. Flashing is emphasizing one's views in terms of what they hate and fear.

There can be many motives for flashing. The flasher is a show-stopper, a real attention-getter. If someone desperately wants to be noticed, flashing gets instant results.

The Libertarian Macho Flash is also a great timesaver. After all, persuasion involves time and effort. By flashing, the speaker bypasses a long and demanding conversation.

Then there are people who live in fear of rejection. Seeing themselves through the eyes of others, they are psychologically dependent, and the possibility of rejection is frightening. How do they handle this? By doing something to get it out of the way as soon as possible. By engineering rejection.

The real macho flasher, by shocking his listeners, convinces himself that his ideas are virile, potent -- even intimidating. The audience obviously lacks his intellectual courage and insight. He grasps truth and goodness. He is good, noble and wise -- clearly a superior person. The listeners? They are stupid, worthless and possibly evil. Why waste time on such inferiors?

Some libertarians flash to convince themselves that they are doing something for freedom. They mistake flamboyance for effectiveness, heat for light.

Still others flash to persuade themselves that nothing can be done for freedom. If people are shocked by libertarianism, then effort is futile. So why try? This is a beautiful example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The Late, Great Libertarian Macho Flash has its defenders, of course. They appeal to "honesty", the Lenny Bruce argument, the Ayn Rand argument or the claim that it works. Each of these falls flat.

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The argument from "honesty" goes as follows: It's dishonest to avoid subjects simply because they offend or shock people. As libertarians, we must put moral principles before political consequences. We must fearlessly proclaim our views and let the chips fall where they may.

This won't do. First, if a person implies support for a belief that he doesn't hold, he is deceiving others. But silence need not mean consent. Second, the purpose of a discussion or speech should determine what one talks about. Suppose an atheist ran for public office. Would a refusal to discuss religion be dishonest? Not necessarily. A speaker isn't obliged to answer every question put to him -- only the relevant ones warrant a response. What determines relevance? The nature of the office, the qualifications for holding it, and what the candidate will try to do if elected. Third, discussing irrelevant issues is misleading. It diverts attention from the real issues and suggests that the irrelevant subjects do matter. This is dishonest.

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The Lenny Bruce argument zeros in on the psychological impact of the macho flash. Lenny Bruce believed that frequent use of offensive and shocking words would reduce and ultimately extinguish their ability to evoke strong emotional reactions. If, for example "hell" and "damn" were used often enough, they would lose their power to trigger emotions.

Although true in the long run, this is irrelevant. Twenty years of effort that made America indifferent to libertarian views -- rather than violently opposed -- would be no victory. It's like running a business deep in the red for 20 years to finally break even. What is the purpose of presenting libertarian ideas: to desensitize listeners to mere words and phrases, or to win agreement on substance? Flashing rarely produces agreement.

Are there any lingering doubts about this argument? Then consider the death of Lenny Bruce. The heroin overdose was incidental -- he was hounded to death by those he flashed.

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Ayn Rand devised a far more ingenious defense of the libertarian macho flash. Rand was asked why she used "selfishness" to denote a virtuous quality when it antagonized so many people to whom it meant something quite different. The introduction to The Virtue of Selfishness contains her answer. Stated in general terms, it is clear that Rand's attempted justification of her terminology applies to every instance of the macho flash.

Rand contended that the popular uses of a given term are no valid index of its correct meaning. A term must not include a built-in moral evaluation, she countered. If a person uses a term in an unconventional manner, perhaps the fault lies with the conventions rather than the speaker. In the name of man and morality, some terms must be saved from conventional abuses. The "exact and purest meaning" of a word should not be surrendered "to Man's enemies, nor to the unthinking misconceptions, distortions, prejudices and fears of the ignorant and irrational."

But consider. The meanings of words aren't engraved in stone -- they change and evolve. If people don't adapt to changing meanings, they risk being misunderstood. Would Rand care to describe her political views as "liberal" simply because the term would have correctly described them a century ago? No? Then the point is conceded.

Ayn Rand was a virtuoso flasher. Ponder a few of her colorful phrases: "the virtue of selfishness", "capitalism: the unknown ideal", "America's persecuted minority: Big Business", "give a silent 'Thank You' to the nearest, grimiest, sootiest smokestacks you can find", "the evil of self-sacrifice", and "a parasite, moocher or looter."

These phrases are guaranteed to stun the average person. Consider The Virtue of Selfishness. If Rand had been interested only in communicating certain ideas, she would have called her book "A Morality of Rational Self-Interest," "The Case For Ethical Egoism," or something equally restrained. But she intended to shock, attract attention and create controversy. As an author, she could afford to be attacked, but not ignored. Neither apathy nor enemies, however, make for libertarian success.

Contrary to Rand, many terms do carry built-in moral judgments. "Treason", "greed", "slander", "Stinginess", "kindness", "generosity" and "blasphemy" are but a few examples.

There are, of course, many foolish conventions. But those who regularly flaunt them will pay a price. Far better to use a convention to further one's views!

There are any number of ways to present a viewpoint. The choice of words and phrases can dramatically influence whether a position seems beautiful or hideous. A rose by any other name may smell as sweet, but a florist using offensive, ugly names for flowers will soon be out of business. Language can serve libertarian goals or oppose them.

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A final alleged advantage of The Late Great Libertarian Macho Flash is this: some people think it's an effective way to persuade others.

This may be true in a limited number of cases. Defending the Undefendable -- a textbook case of flashing -- may "wake the reader from his dogmatic slumbers" or act like "Drano for clogged minds." But would it be the best introduction to libertarianism? Not a chance!

Flashing should be tested against other methods of marketing libertarianism to the general public. How often does it work? Under which circumstances? What kind of people does flashing attract? This is crucial. If the macho flash attracts people who will be an embarrassment to the libertarian movement -- people who alienate and antagonize, who are crude and ill-mannered -- then it ought to be dropped. A political belief is often judged by those who hold it.

And what about the people it repels? Will they have open minds in the future, or are they now opponents?

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One final point. Some libertarians use the macho flash as a litmus test for potential converts. If the listener is alienated by a controversial view, he isn't worth having. Or so these people would have us believe.

This ignores a basic fact of human psychology: changing one's viewpoint usually takes time. Views that many libertarians take for granted today may have seemed ridiculous, insane or evil in the not-too-distant past. It took many years for even Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard, John Hospers, Robert Nozick and Karl Hess to become full-blown libertarians. Thought, study, discussion, persuasion and time were necessary. And these people are very intelligent. So why does the macho flasher expect so much more from a chance listener?

Those who use the Libertarian Macho Flash usually discredit libertarianism. People tend to judge a body of beliefs on the basis of a few statements. If a Libertarian candidate presents ideas that are virulently offensive to an audience, the audience will assume that his other views are equally obnoxious. In social psychology, this is known as the "halo effect."

Flashing makes enemies. It creates active opponents to liberty. Freedom has enough natural enemies -- people who thrive on statism. Why create more through lack of tact?

A viewpoint may be accepted or rejected because of the speaker who presents it. If he is perceived as callous, against all decency, inhumane and disgusting, then he couldn't possibly be in favor of anything worthwhile. This is a logical fallacy. It is also a psychological fact and not to be ignored.

I have personally field tested The Late, Great Libertarian Macho Flash. It is not simply unproductive; it is counter-productive. It makes future attempts at persuasion far more difficult. Liberty is the casualty.

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What can libertarians do to avoid flashing? Space forbids a lengthy reply, but I have a few suggestions.

Know who you are talking to and what they believe. Find out their emotional beltlines and stay above them.

Before speaking, ask: What are you trying to accomplish? How do you plan to do it? Will your plan promote your goals? Why or why not? Do not stand in the way of your own success.

If you flash because you enjoy the exhilaration, find other ways of getting kicks. When you do, you will be more emotionally satisfied and politically effective.

Become politically effective. This will eliminate the desire to prove that nothing can be done.

Devote your energies to finding more effective ways to bring others to the libertarian philosophy. There are too few persuasive libertarians, and becoming one is far nobler ambition than seeing how many hearts and minds you can close.

The Libertarian Movement has matured a great deal in the last few years. Bright, attractive people are the norm. It is time for our communication methods to come up to date. One step in that direction would be to discard The Late, Great Libertarian Macho Flash.

MyLibertyStuff
05-26-2010, 11:16 PM
Great angle

Sentient Void
05-27-2010, 12:27 AM
BuddyRay... that's definitely indispensable. I've just recently gotten over the 'macho flash' as I've realized it's ineffective and counter-productive... I've had a *lot* more success with the Socratic Method, and also plan on integrating strategies in the article you posted as well as the one in the OP.

helmuth_hubener
05-27-2010, 02:32 PM
Then again, Ayn has probably been instrumental in converting more people to libertarianism than any other person. At minimum, she is in the top 10. Some people are attracted to unvarnished honesty. Some people are fascinated by novel, unorthodox ideas. Some people honor those with true conviction and the courage to stand behind their views even if unpopular. Some people's minds have the ability to follow logic and deduction to hard conclusions. I am one of those people. There are others.

The key thing to realize, in my mind, is that no one ever changes their mind in a verbal, face-to-face conversation. It is too real-time, it is too high-pressure, the person is naturally going to be defensive. Very very rarely will someone change their mind right then and there. Reading a book is a different experience altogether. So just recommend they read a book.

There are a variety of approaches that work for a variety of people, depending both on the persuader and the persuadee, no one magic bullet.

TheBlackPeterSchiff
05-27-2010, 02:48 PM
I've used that argument before, it works for decent people, but some say "Hell yeah I would shoot you if I needed some food" WTF

Sentient Void
05-27-2010, 02:55 PM
In the end, I've (personally) had much better success winning bees over with honey than with vinegar.

I think such is a smarter path to take for higher net gains of getting people to understand and agree with the philosophy of liberty.

As for Ayn rand, she's converted people mostly through her books - and as you even said, it's much more personal, less pressure and requires an initially open mind to such ideas... I wouldn't say debating with someone in the Ayn Rand / macho flash method will 'net' help, though.

The socratic method and allowing your 'opponent' to realize themselves the logic and consistency of liberty is the best way to go about it.

I also highly suggest everyone read the book, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by Dale Carnegie, if you haven't already.

TheBlackPeterSchiff
05-27-2010, 03:15 PM
The socratic method and allowing your 'opponent' to realize themselves the logic and consistency of liberty is the best way to go about it.


That's what won me over. A poster on this hip hop forum I frequent used to PM me links to articles and info all the time, and question my stances on certain things, but not in a condescending or angry kind of way. He would just give a different view for example if I said "an income tax is necessary it just should be flat" then he would just ask me why is it necessary, and we would go from there, he actually enlightened me on a lot of things. The a guy at work put me on to Peter Schiff then I was all in!

EN81
05-27-2010, 03:33 PM
I think this is a far more reasonable approach:

I choose my comrades from among those who are willing to work to realize freedom, regardless of whether we would end up at the same point were all our goals to be realized; not from those who are content merely to fantasize about freedom and who seek to remain “big fish” in small ponds. I would rather be a small fish in a great sea of liberty. – Tom G. Palmer

Molyneux is indeed a "big" fish in a very, very small pond. You will get nowhere with small-minded sectarianism and rape analogies.

helmuth_hubener
05-27-2010, 08:52 PM
In the end, I've (personally) had much better success winning bees over with honey than with vinegar. Yes, true, one generally wants to be civil and personable.


I think such is a smarter path to take for higher net gains of getting people to understand and agree with the philosophy of liberty. Railing and calling a man evil does have a low success rate for winning him to your side.


As for Ayn rand, she's converted people mostly through her books - and as you even said, it's much more personal, less pressure and requires an initially open mind to such ideas... I wouldn't say debating with someone in the Ayn Rand / macho flash method will 'net' help, though. I think you're basically right.


The socratic method and allowing your 'opponent' to realize themselves the logic and consistency of liberty is the best way to go about it. Here is where I really enthusiastically agree with you. Asking questions is a great way to teach. This should go together with an attitude of not being all hung up on whether you convert them anyway. I used to get so wrapped up in the importance of showing everyone the truth when I first became a libertarian (as a young teen/pre-teen) that I got in lots of heated debates with my family and drove them away from it more than anything. That kind of evangelic zeal is tiring and probably not very useful. It's also somewhat self-correcting, though, as you eventually realize that you're not succeeding in persuading anyone, you get discouraged, and then you take a more "chill" approach either through surrender to the reality that you will never change anyone's mind or as a change in tactic as you continue to try.

Questioning the other guy, listening to his ideas, being interested in them (if possible), and not being worried about getting your own across,and certainly not about convincing him they are right, this makes for nice conversations.