Why we should secure our borders..

[PeacePlan]

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html

[JosephTheLibertarian]

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html

We shouldn't. We should start worrying when immigrants begin leaving the US.

[PeacePlan]

We shouldn't. We should start worrying when immigrants begin leaving the US.


That is your opinion - maybe open your door and let it be known that you don't mind if people come into your house. If that is how you feel you should leave everything car house and all property open to all.

You call them immigrants not illegal?

[ninepointfive]

We have no republic if borders aren't enforced. Want to usher in the NAU? The USA must be a sovereign nation to protect the constitution!

[Elwar]

If we did as the days of Jesus and only taxed foreigners, we would be welcoming immigrants with open arms.

[silentshout]

We shouldn't. We should start worrying when immigrants begin leaving the US.

They already have been since the housing bust and the recession.

[Southron]

We have no republic if borders aren't enforced. Want to usher in the NAU? The USA must be a sovereign nation to protect the constitution!

Maybe our open borders advocates don't want a republic but rather a Mexican or central American style government.

[Kludge]

Maybe our open borders advocates don't want a republic but rather a Mexican or central American style government.

I suspect they're individualists and, like myself, have already secured their borders.

Door locked, 1911 on table, towels already on floor. The US government can go take a flying fuck at the moon.

[John Taylor]

I suspect they're individualists and, like myself, have already secured their borders.

Door locked, 1911 on table, towels already on floor. The US government can go take a flying fuck at the moon.

Especially when there are an extra 50 million Democratic voters happily voting to use the coercive force of the federal government to violate your private property rights and transfer your property to others they think are more deserving!

[Aratus]

why did we go after pancho villa? why did black jack pershing get a go ahead?
the war on drugs has an ancient parallelism and this is deja vu all over again.

[constituent]

Especially when there are an extra 50 million Democratic voters happily voting to use the coercive force of the federal government to violate your private property rights and transfer your property to others they think are more deserving!

...because republican voters are any different. :rolleyes:

[MelissaWV]

Rest easy, folks! There are 1200 National Guard troops on the way. You got your wish! Of course, McCain wants more, but it's a start.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

That is your opinion - maybe open your door and let it be known that you don't mind if people come into your house. If that is how you feel you should leave everything car house and all property open to all.

You call them immigrants not illegal?

my house is not on "the border" :) borders don't really exist.

[PeacePlan]

my house is not on "the border" :) borders don't really exist.

Do property lines exist? Once they come here they are on someones property?

[tremendoustie]

Do property lines exist? Once they come here they are on someones property?

Yep. And if that person doesn't want them there, it's called trespass. If they do want them there, either to work, or reside, then it's none of anyone else's business.

If an immigrant (or anyone) shows up on your property without your permission, and won't leave, by all means, call the cops. Don't presume to dictate to others who they may and may not allow, however, and don't start attacking peaceful people because they dare to work for a living without begging permission from some bureaucrat.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Do property lines exist? Once they come here they are on someones property?

We are talking about national borders.

[John Taylor]

...because republican voters are any different. :rolleyes:

The two million who voted for Ron Paul and who founded and run this web site are. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[John Taylor]

Yep. And if that person doesn't want them there, it's called trespass. If they do want them there, either to work, or reside, then it's none of anyone else's business.

If an immigrant (or anyone) shows up on your property without your permission, and won't leave, by all means, call the cops. Don't presume to dictate to others who they may and may not allow, however, and don't start attacking peaceful people because they dare to work for a living without begging permission from some bureaucrat.

This isn't the issue, it's letting in untold millions of people who support socialistic policies, who are economic marxists and socially conservative...

[John Taylor]

my house is not on "the border" :) borders don't really exist.

Borders do exist. If you drive on I-8 from San Diego to Yuma, you'll learn that personally.

"If goods don't cross borders, armies will".

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Borders do exist. If you drive on I-8 from San Diego to Yuma, you'll learn that personally.

"If goods don't cross borders, armies will".

Imaginary borders do exist.

[John Taylor]

Rest easy, folks! There are 1200 National Guard troops on the way. You got your wish! Of course, McCain wants more, but it's a start.

1200 is nothing, that's a small percentage of the number that has previously been on the border, and they were insufficient. This isn't even enough soldiers to defend Douglas.

[peacepotpaul]

We shouldn't. We should start worrying when immigrants begin leaving the US.

ha!

[Southron]

Senator Kyl said those 1200 are going to be desk jobs apparently?

[Number19]

why did we go after pancho villa? why did black jack pershing get a go ahead?
the war on drugs has an ancient parallelism and this is deja vu all over again.We went after Villa because he raided across the border. Desperate to restock his defeated forces with supplies, he attacked Columbus, NM with a force of approximately 500 men, in March 1916. Unknown to him, the town was garrisoned with the 13th cavalry and Villa's forces suffered heavy loses. Pershing was a direct, retaliatory answer with the intent of capturing Villa.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Borders do exist. If you drive on I-8 from San Diego to Yuma, you'll learn that personally.

"If goods don't cross borders, armies will".

Oh yeah? Where were the borders back in 1857?

[tremendoustie]

This isn't the issue


It's exactly the issue.


it's letting in untold millions of people who support socialistic policies, who are economic marxists and socially conservative...

There are lots of homegrown socialists, are you advocating they all be deported? What about the many immigrants who are not socialists?

It's absolutely wrong for you to go attack a person who is living and working peacefully because he looks like, or is from the same place, as a number of socialists. You might as well kidnap all of NY, or all black people.

And you certainly have no right to attack me, a person living on my land, or a person working for me, because they didn't jump through a bunch of your arbitrary bureaucratic hoops, and pay your goons a bunch of fees. It's not your right to decide who I can and cannot allow on my land. It's my land, not yours.

[Number19]

With some exception, the U.S. pretty much had open immigration and open borders until the 20th century. I think we, as a nation, did OK.

This is an issue only for those who want Big Government.

[Southron]

With some exception, the U.S. pretty much had open immigration and open borders until the 20th century. I think we, as a nation, did OK.

This is an issue only for those who want Big Government.

Then why are those who are obviously in favor of big government the ones refusing to secure the borders?

[Number19]

Then why are those who are obviously in favor of big government the ones refusing to secure the borders?They want these illegals to be granted amnesty and then expect them to vote democrat by a huge majority. But all welfare states will eventually collapse with an open border policy. Their current position on the issue is one of denial.

[PeacePlan]

Yep. And if that person doesn't want them there, it's called trespass. If they do want them there, either to work, or reside, then it's none of anyone else's business.

If an immigrant (or anyone) shows up on your property without your permission, and won't leave, by all means, call the cops. Don't presume to dictate to others who they may and may not allow, however, and don't start attacking peaceful people because they dare to work for a living without begging permission from some bureaucrat.

I am an American and I consider this my homeland and don't want people who are here Illegally. It seems you do so invite them all to your house and you pay the bill. They cost money and take jobs that many Americans would now love to have. I just wish that all the people that wanted the illegals here would pay the bill and not include me. You pay for them you want them.

[tremendoustie]

I am an American and I consider this my homeland


My land is not yours. I bought it with my own money -- it's mine, regardless of what you consider it -- and who occupies it is my business.


and don't want people who are here Illegally. It seems you do so invite them all to your house and you pay the bill.


What bill? I'd hire them, or rent to them, in exchange for labor or money -- the same way I do business with anyone.



They cost money


I'm all for ending welfare, and all other forced distribution of wealth to anyone, including "illegals". Apart from that, how does someone who is simply working for me, or living on my property, cost you money?



and take jobs that many Americans would now love to have.


This is an economic fallacy. Wealth is the amount of goods produced, period, and scarcity implies full employment, except for very brief economic realignments, as people switch jobs. Ongoing unemployment is caused by government interference, not immigration.

Even apart from this, why should I prefer an "American" gets a job rather than someone else? They're all people -- and the immigrants are often in far more dire need.



I just wish that all the people that wanted the illegals here would pay the bill and not include me. You pay for them you want them.

I certainly agree that you should not be forced to hand your money over to anyone. That's the problem, IMO -- not immigration. Let's end all government benefits to immigrants. Many are only trying to work for a living, receive no benefits, and even pay taxes. To go after them would be immoral.

[Number19]

If we had open borders, immigrants would not be "illegal". Also, in a free society, there would be no "bill to pay". And, in a free society, the economy would provide jobs to match the population.

This is a difficult topic to discuss, because one usually tends to frame the argument in terms of a statist society and not in the terms of a free society. And since we do not have a free society, a controlled border is a necessity. Having an open border under these conditions will result in policy failure, presenting the opportunity for statist proponents to argue that freedom does not work, necessitating statist control.

[YumYum]

If we had open borders, immigrants would not be "illegal". Also, in a free society, there would be no "bill to pay". And, in a free society, the economy would provide jobs to match the population.

This is a difficult topic to discuss, because one usually tends to frame the argument in terms of a statist society and not in the terms of a free society. And since we do not have a free society, a controlled border is a necessity. Having an open border under these conditions will result in policy failure, presenting the opportunity for statist proponents to argue that freedom does not work, necessitating statist control.

Would you agree to Mexico, The United States and Canada all being unified as one Nation?

[Number19]

Would you agree to Mexico, The United States and Canada all being unified as one Nation?Under a statist constitution, of course not. Under a strong libertarian constitution, I would not oppose it.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Under a statist constitution, of course not. Under a strong libertarian constitution, I would not oppose it.

Why have any constitution? Certainly such a nation would have a monopoly over a geographical area?