Re: Mitt Romney Polygamy Reference in A New Hope Video

[ghemminger]

Could you guys weigh in on this - I'm not sure how to respond to this guy?

Thanks for sending this.

I don't know if you are the person responsible for putting this video together but - regardless - I DO have one strong objection.

I'm no fan of Mitt Romney, but my wife and I BOTH feel strongly that the fact that there has been a history of polygamy in Mr. Romney's family does not reflect on him and SHOULD NOT be made light of in the context of this video.

I would go further and point out that - in as much as I am drawn to the Ron Paul campaign by virtue of being a Libertarian - and in so far as the central principle of Libertarian thought is that all human relationships should be voluntary - and in so far as the institution of MARRIAGE having traditionally been considered to be in the domain of RELIGION - and in so far as the First Amendment dictates that CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion... SO LONG AS A POLYGAMOUS RELATIONSHIP IS ENTERED INTO VOLUNTARILY BY CONSENTING ADULTS WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF THE STATE OR OF ANY ONE ELSE TO INTERFERE?

I believe Ron Paul himself would agree with my sentiments here and would be embarrassed to find a video ostensibly put together to PROMOTE his campaign engaging in such a cheap and inappropriate slant at the Romney campaign ...or even of responsible polygamists.

We do not need to attack the history of polygamy in Mr. Romney's family to highlight Dr. Paul's fidelity.



IN LIBERTY!,



James

[kylejack]

Now that he mentions it, I agree 100%. Better to tag him on his flip-flops than family associations that he has no control over.

The taser thing could be replaced with something better as well.

[RonPaulFever]

Take out the polygamy reference and the "don't tase me" retard, and you have a perfect video.

[Spanish for Ron]

He is right, it's the only thing in the video I would object.

[Grandson of Liberty]

Take out the polygamy reference and the "don't tase me" retard, and you have a perfect video.

Agreed. . . I thought the taser dude definitely interrupted what was otherwise a great video.

[Original_Intent]

I agree. It was the only part of the video I felt was a negative. Pointing out Rudy's infidelity is a legit point, highlighting polygamy among Romney's ancestry looks like political gamesmanship. There is plenty of negative to point out about Romney himself, but I think he is probably a good family man and is probably comparable to Ron Paul in being committed to his wife and family.

I am not sure how I would respond to the person asking you about this other than to possibly say "you are right, that should not have been included and paints an inaccurate picture."

That is just my two cents.

[sylvania]

I agree with what was written.

This was the one thing I strongly objected to. (The taser thing just left me confused as to why it was included.)

First, I have no control over what my family does. Period. And I disagree with them a lot about what they do.

Secondly, I believe he's right. It's none of my business what other people do with their lives. Personally, I could never share my husband with another woman, but if some other woman could, whatever. None of my business and it doesn't affect me one way or the other. I am only responsible for my life.

[yongrel]

Okay, so now that I'm done taking pleasure in mocking Romney, I can agree that the Polygamy dig is not the best use of video time.

The same goes for the "Don't Tase me Bro" guy.

I love the vid, but there are some weak points.

[Alabama Supporter]

oh well. If someone made it that far in the video, then they probably will like RP anyway.

[michaelwise]

Take out the polygamy reference and the "don't tase me" retard, and you have a perfect video.Agreed with your 1st part, except add bro after tase me. I would also air brush out Mit signs among the RP signs at the Michigan rally.

[speciallyblend]

Isnt polygamy illegal by state law in Utah?? If it is i dont see anything wrong with it,if his family line is breaking the law ,then they are breaking the law.

I'm sorry i would keep the message in video,if he allows his family to break state law we should use it against him until the state changes the law,its illegal

If im right ,its illegal in almost every state by state law. maybe romney can consult his LAWYERS:)

[akovacs]

Yeah, agreed. Romney had no control over his family history. It's petty to attach him to it. There's plenty of other negative stuff about him that we could be focusing on instead.

[kylejack]

Isnt polygamy illegal by state law in Utah?? If it is i dont see anything wrong with it,if his family line is breaking the law ,then they are breaking the law.
People shouldn't be criticized for breaking an unjust law, and besides, people shouldn't have to answer for something someone else did, even if it is their family. Individuals are responsible for their own actions.

[libertarianguy]

test

[LBT]

You can't please everyone, and changing the video now would unlikely make any difference.

Maybe another better one down the track when the buzz from this one dies down.

Well done on a great video. It's probably worth $500,000 for the campaign with all the exposure it will generate.

[ghemminger]

Official Response:
Not the first time it's been suggested. Unfortunately pulling the video and reposting an edited version at this point will reset all counters, and completely stop all momentum.

I apologize if you take offense to the Associated Press polygamy headline, and its reference as "baggage" for the candidate.

Thanks guys for the input

[Politeia]

that the reference to Romney's ancestors was in somewhat bad taste, but I wonder: that and the Giuliani clip followed remarks by some MSM type about other candidates (plural) having problems around the question of marriage & morality; were the Giuliani & Romney bits added by the guy who made the video, or were they part of the MSM commentator clip? I don't watch the regular media, so don't know.

[Ninja Homer]

I agree... WWRPD? Ron Paul's message stands enough on its own. There's no need to attack polygamy, or divorce for that matter. Attack people's policy all you want, but leave their religion and their personal lives out of it.

The "don't tase me bro" part just interrupts a nice flow. Anybody who's already seen the "don't tase me bro" videos is already sick of them, and anybody who hasn't seen the full thing before will be confused by that short clip.

[speciallyblend]

The tazer should stay in as well,since no matter how much that guy is a jerk,he had over 6 cops against him,there was no need for the tazer,no matter how much that guy was a jerk

[speciallyblend]

Removing those 2 things couldnt hurt the video,since ron pauls message is powerful

[kylejack]

The tazer should stay in as well,since no matter how much that guy is a jerk,he had over 6 cops against him,there was no need for the tazer,no matter how much that guy was a jerk

Yeah, but it just feels out of place. And Ron Paul as President doesn't change what some little university fascists do.

[sunny]

i agree with pulling the romney polygamy shot and the guy getting tasered.

it detracts from the video and cheapens it.

it doesn't need to be there.

it stops me from sending the video on to people.

otherwise it is a fine video.

[mconder]

highlighting polygamy among Romney's ancestry looks like political gamesmanship.

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul philosophy does not question anyone's choices regarding the marital status and/or religious beliefs past or present. And no, I am not a closet polygamist.

[kylejack]

highlighting polygamy among Romney's ancestry looks like political gamesmanship.

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul philosophy does not question anyone's choices regarding the marital status and/or religious beliefs past or present. And no, I am not a closet polygamist.
The definition of marriage- a union between a man and a woman- can be found in any dictionary. It’s sad that we need government to define an institution that has existed for centuries.

[brumans]

Someone should contact the creator and tell them to create a new version without the tazer and polygamy segments.

[kylejack]

Someone should contact the creator and tell them to create a new version without the tazer and polygamy segments.

He said no. Doesn't want to lose the view counts.

[granny miller]

I agree.
It's not Romney's fault what his family did.

[katao]

He said no. Doesn't want to lose the view counts.

He should at least release another one so that we can promote it in Utah. The current one WILL offend many Mormons here. I've even offered to edit it myself. It's a real shame, because it is such a good video otherwise.

[hopeforamerica]

He should at least release another one so that we can promote it in Utah. The current one WILL offend many Mormons here.

That's a great suggestion. He should do an edit and release is as a new one. The old one can still gain ground, and the new can be shown as well.

[speciallyblend]

Yeah, but it just feels out of place. And Ron Paul as President doesn't change what some little university fascists do.

True i agree,maybe he can get something else in its place.

I think he was trying to show the injustice of the police and goverment in general.

[speciallyblend]

LOOK AT IT THIS WAY,

This isnt from HQ,its from an independent person,so at least there is no connection. it might offend a few but the message is still heard loud and clear.

RON PAUL 2008 ,i would just explain to people it wasnt made by anyone in HQ,but by a passionate supporter:)

The Tazer incident might be out of place a little,but remember no matter how much that guy was a jerk,many americans are not happy about the tazer incident and it should rile up a alot people who are fed up with the federal/state/local goverment over stepping. 6 cops if not more against one person who wasnt fighting ,just yapping his mouth

GREAT VIDEO I LIKE IT:) George you make that??

[Original_Intent]

LOOK AT IT THIS WAY,

This isnt from HQ,its from an independent person,so at least there is no connection. it might offend a few but the message is still heard loud and clear.

RON PAUL 2008 ,i would just explain to people it wasnt made by anyone in HQ,but by a passionate supporter:)

Well, said, I think that is the best way to handle it if anyone asks.

[Blowback]

I like the whole movie in its entirety. I think it is perfect.

[Hope]

He doesn't want to lose view counts?

I'm glad he has his priorities straight. If I were a Mormon, I definitely wouldn't vote for a guy whose campaign video takes a cheap shot at Mormonism. And no, it doesn't matter that it wasn't made by HQ. The average person won't distinguish the two.

[kylejack]

Its out of our hands.

[ghemminger]

Yeah I aggree with all off you but if you read the MSM and the polling info - his Religion his playing a significant part - in the voters perception

[Hope]

Yeah I aggree with all off you but if you read the MSM and the polling info - his Religion his playing a significant part - in the voters perception

...And that's reason for us to smear him? Or are you insinuating that polygamy is just an intrinsic part of Mormonism?

I'm not sure which implication is worse.

[speciallyblend]

He doesn't want to lose view counts?

I'm glad he has his priorities straight. If I were a Mormon, I definitely wouldn't vote for a guy whose campaign video takes a cheap shot at Mormonism. And no, it doesn't matter that it wasn't made by HQ. The average person won't distinguish the two.

I think if they are a true mormon as most i know,this wouldnt offend you unless you were a polygamist,( i dont agree with it as a majority of america doesnt believe in it. granted i think its a state issue and even utah says its illegal,if im correct there isnt one state where its legal? I'm not harping anyone mormon,im just stating the reality in state law as well.I havent seen stats but im pretty sure most americans arent for polygamy.If people want to marry a few people with everyones knowledge thats fine by me,but most americans think its unmoral.There wasnt a lie in the video,his family line has polygamist(its illegal) its not attacking mormons,its attacking an illegal pratice polygamy.I'm not saying i agree but he isnt saying anything thats false in the video.

[Hope]

Oh and about the view count, he'll get those votes back. The same people who have seen this video and rated it will see the next one and rate it.

It's been pointed out that this video isn't being passed on because of this. I don't doubt that many people will give a lower overall rating to this one, whereas an edited version would be much higher.

[LibertyEagle]

i agree with pulling the romney polygamy shot and the guy getting tasered.

it detracts from the video and cheapens it.

it doesn't need to be there.

it stops me from sending the video on to people.

otherwise it is a fine video.

I agree. So that he doesn't get bombarded, has anyone asked the creator of this video if he/she wouldn't mind making these 2 changes.

It really would make the video one we could send out over and over, just like we have done with Stop Dreaming. Without the edits, I will not be forwarding it.

[kylejack]

I agree. So that he doesn't get bombarded, has anyone asked the creator of this video if he/she wouldn't mind making these 2 changes.
He has already been asked, he does not want to lose the view counts.

[Broadlighter]

The high ground is to leave Romney's ancestry out. If we're going to take swipes at the other candidates take them at their stands on the issues or their records. Let the dead rest in their graves.

"Dude, don't taze me bro!" aims at the police state mentality on display at a John Kerry affair. If it was at a Hillary or Obama or Giuliani or Thompson affair then I say it's fair game. Putting the UF student's episode legitimizes his case against the police state and I think it detracts from Ron Paul's.

Take 'em both out.

[Hope]

I think if your a true mormon as most i know,this wouldnt offend you unless you were a polygamist,( i dont agree with it as a majority of america doesnt believe in it. granted i think its a state issue and even utah says its illegal,if im correct there isnt one state where its legal? I'm not harping anyone mormon,im just stating the reality in state law as well.I havent seen stats but im pretty sure most americans arent for polygamy.If people want to marry a few people with everyones knowledge thats fine by me,but most americans think its unmoral.There wasnt a lie in the video,his family line has polygamist(its illegal) its not attacking mormons,its attacking an illegal pratice polygamy.I'm not saying i agree but he isnt saying anything thats false in the video.

Okay, three points.

One, I haven't seen any verifiable evidence that Mitt's family practices polygamy. So yes, it is drawing a line between Mormonism and polygamy even though there is no evidence for it in this case.

Two, even if it were true, so what? Is this really how low we're willing to go? "Your sister's roommate's cousin..." Ron Paul has had plenty of opportunities to take swipes at the other candidates in that way, but he hasn't. Coincidence? Nope. He knows that it will ONLY reflect badly on him to resort to mudslinging. It's about time we realized that too.

Finally, I don't give a good goddamn if you think it's immoral. This campaign is not about morality. It's about PERSONAL LIBERTY. It's about taking the government out of the moral equation. If you want to run a campaign on holier-than-thou, they've-sinned-more-than-us-ism you might be on the wrong boat. And the fact is, that tactic doesn't work. No one's going to vote for Ron Paul over the other candidates just because Jill told Jane who told Bob that Mitt's family might have practiced polygamy.

All this does is divide us and turn away people who might have otherwise been receptive to RP's message. If the person who made the video doesn't understand that, I don't know what more there is to say.

[TexMac]

If you guys don't like the video, don't digg it, don't forward it. None of you have any business telling the person who made it to change it.

It's art. He said what he wanted to say and you either like it or you don't. The least you can do is respect his vision and creativity.

The video has taken off like a rocket and gone viral. If you think you can stop it, you don't understand the internet. The market has spoken.

[speciallyblend]

Okay, three points.

One, I haven't seen any verifiable evidence that Mitt's family practices polygamy. So yes, it is drawing a line between Mormonism and polygamy even though there is no evidence for it in this case.

Two, even if it were true, so what? Is this really how low we're willing to go? "Your sister's roommate's cousin..." Ron Paul has had plenty of opportunities to take swipes at the other candidates in that way, but he hasn't. Coincidence? Nope. He knows that it will ONLY reflect badly on him to resort to mudslinging. It's about time we realized that too.

Finally, I don't give a good goddamn if you think it's immoral. This campaign is not about morality. It's about PERSONAL LIBERTY. It's about taking the government out of the moral equation. If you want to run a campaign on holier-than-thou, they've-sinned-more-than-us-ism you might be on the wrong boat. And the fact is, that tactic doesn't work. No one's going to vote for Ron Paul over the other candidates just because Jill told Jane who told Bob that Mitt's family might have practiced polygamy.

All this does is divide us and turn away people who might have otherwise been receptive to RP's message. If the person who made the video doesn't understand that, I don't know what more there is to say.

UMmmm read my post,I never said i believed it was unmoral,please read my post again and calm down,i said most americans. I said i dont believe in it,then further i said i dont care if people marry a few people.

but i do LOVE YOUR PASSION FOR LIBERTY:)

[Hope]

If you guys don't like the video, don't digg it, don't forward it. None of you have any business telling the person who made it to change it.

It's art. He said what he wanted to say and you either like it or you don't. The least you can do is respect his vision and creativity.

The video has taken off like a rocket and gone viral. If you think you can stop it, you don't understand the internet. The market has spoken.

We have all the business in the world asking him to change it, considering we're ALL part of the Ron Paul campaign.

I respect his creativity, but I don't want him to unintentionally turn people off to Ron Paul with something that could easily be removed.

We are stopping it, that's what you and the creator of the piece does not seem to get. We aren't forwarding it to friends and family. We're aren't digging it. We aren't standing behind it. The reason it's taken off as much as it has is because the REST of the video is so good. We WANT to support it, we really do -- that's why we're asking him to remove the slander.

[speciallyblend]

If you guys don't like the video, don't digg it, don't forward it. None of you have any business telling the person who made it to change it.

It's art. He said what he wanted to say and you either like it or you don't. The least you can do is respect his vision and creativity.

The video has taken off like a rocket and gone viral. If you think you can stop it, you don't understand the internet. The market has spoken.

True Dat

[mconder]

granted i think its a state issue and even utah says its illegal,if im correct there isnt one state where its legal?

There are polygamists in Utah, they have just circumvented the state by marrying only 1 wife in the eyes of the state and the rest they marry within their religion. There is an entire city full of them, Colorado City, UT. The population is at least 5,000.

I see them in town here all the time. They shop at Wal-Mart and Costco a lot. They are quite nice and hard working people, though I do not plan to join them.

They are not affiliated with the LDS/Mormon Church.

[JMann]

A tazer should only be used if the cop would be required to use a gun and didn't have the tazer as a nonlethal weapon. The idea that the police can go around shocking people at will is absurd. A tazer can be a deadly weapon and should only be used in place of a gun. If someone pulls a gun on an officer or if the officer's life is in danger. To give them the right to use it any other time is very dangerous.

You pull a tazer on a cop and there is very likely you would be killed.

[speciallyblend]

I'm sure he wouldnt mind if someone copied the video and re-edit it? Is that possible maybe liberty or hope?? I'm sure someone could re-edit it,since its just a video.

[speciallyblend]

granted i think its a state issue and even utah says its illegal,if im correct there isnt one state where its legal?

There are polygamists in Utah, they have just circumvented the state by marrying only 1 wife in the eyes of the state and the rest they marry within their religion. There is an entire city full of them, Colorado City, UT.

I see them in town here all the time. They shop at Wal-Mart and Costco a lot. They are quite nice people, though I would not become one.

They are not affiliated with the LDS/Mormon Church.

My wife use to live in utah,but i hear you.It doesnt bother me what or who people want to marry.

[TexMac]

We are stopping it, that's what you and the creator of the piece does not seem to get. We aren't forwarding it to friends and family. We're aren't digging it. We aren't standing behind it. The reason it's taken off as much as it has is because the REST of the video is so good. We WANT to support it, we really do -- that's why we're asking him to remove the slander.Right. Okie dokie.

*rolls eyes*


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[katao]

I'm sure he wouldnt mind if someone copied the video and re-edit it? Is that possible maybe liberty or hope?? I'm sure someone could re-edit it,since its just a video.

Exactly - I've tried every way I know to contact the author to ask for the best-quality available original to edit, but I've gotten no response so far. If they are concerned about another version on YouTube - I won't post it there. We just need an alternative to distribute.

[Ron Paul Fan]

If you guys don't like the video, don't digg it, don't forward it. None of you have any business telling the person who made it to change it.

It's art. He said what he wanted to say and you either like it or you don't. The least you can do is respect his vision and creativity.

The video has taken off like a rocket and gone viral. If you think you can stop it, you don't understand the internet. The market has spoken.

I agree 100%. The movie is perfect the way it is and it is very popular. Shame on everyone for telling people how to make their movies and what is acceptable to put in their masterpieces! Do people go around emailing Avaroth, "Hey Avaroth, loved your movie but could you change this, this, and that? Otherwise I think your movies are awesome!" NO! This guy has put together one of the best Ron Paul videos and you people want to ruin that. I just emailed the guy and told him how great it was and congratulated him on its success. And to not listen to the people who want him to gut his work of art. Follow your heart.

[Pete]

I don't blame the maker for not wanting to lose the distinction that the video has earned, and I think it's a wonderful piece. I mean, I can hardly watch it without choking up, it strikes such a deep chord.

I am a part-time artisan, and nothing I produce is absolutely perfect. Even in my best work, there is always a flaw or two, usually apparent only to me. If I could fix them, I would, but the medium doesn't allow for it. The video can be edited, and I think it would be even more powerful for it, so I heartily recommend it.

However, I think the original on YouTube should stand, as it is a piece of history. Another high resolution version, made available as a torrent for copying and redistributing, would be very cool. This version could contain the edits.

Just my $0.02

[Travis]

Take out the polygamy reference and the "don't tase me" retard, and you have a perfect video.
Agree. Those things really throw off this video

[synthetic]

The video is perfect. Leave it alone.

[jasonhlasvegas2008]

It really isn't his fault that his ancestors practiced polygamy and it should not be held against him.