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View Full Version : US rifles not suited to warfare in Afghan hills




Krugerrand
05-21-2010, 09:15 AM
I thought a few folks around here may find this an interesting read.


The U.S. military's workhorse rifle — used in battle for the last 40 years — is proving less effective in Afghanistan against the Taliban's more primitive but longer range weapons.

As a result, the U.S. is reevaluating the performance of its standard M-4 rifle and considering a switch to weapons that fire a larger round largely discarded in the 1960s.

The M-4 is an updated version of the M-16, which was designed for close quarters combat in Vietnam. It worked well in Iraq, where much of the fighting was in cities such as Baghdad, Ramadi and Fallujah.

But a U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.

Read on: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100521/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan_bullet_wars

What I find sad is that the article is peppered with how the Soviets found this all out in the 1980's. It's sad to learn from the School of Hard Knocks when the lessons should have been text book. Of course, it's sad that we didn't learn from the Soviets that Afghanistan is not a good place to fight a war.

Bruno
05-21-2010, 09:18 AM
I thought a few folks around here may find this an interesting read.



Read on: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100521/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan_bullet_wars

What I find sad is that the article is peppered with how the Soviets found this all out in the 1980's. It's sad to learn from the School of Hard Knocks when the lessons should have been text book. Of course, it's sad that we didn't learn from the Soviets that Afghanistan is not a good place to fight a war.

That is unfortunately very true

Pericles
05-21-2010, 01:34 PM
Two contributing factors that compound each other:

1. Changing the 20 inch barrel on the M16 to the 14.5 inch barrel on the M4 reduces velocity of the round, which is more noticeable as range increases.

2. The 5.56mm round is at best an intermediate range (to 500m) combat round.

Well designed military equipment is a compromise for use in a variety of conditions. Weapons that are useful for "unassing" vehicles and engaging in urban street fighting may not be the right answer for open country.

GunnyFreedom
05-21-2010, 01:53 PM
Wow. Breaking news about what most members of the military have known since the 1960's...lol

And yeah, the transition to the carbine made things exponentially worse. I...hate...the M4. Always have, really. The barrel is way too short for the 5.56 NATO. The ballistics combining the 5.56 with a 14.5 inch barrel is a mountain of fail waiting to cost someone his life. The temp solution will be a transition to SCAR-H CQB which is already in the supply chain for a .308

The "radical departure" longterm solution for a "one-size fits all weapon" is really going to be chambering a reliable bullpup in 6.8mm. Not the biggest 6.8mm fan, I much prefer the .308, but the bean-counters have taken to an unassailable notion that winning or losing depends entirely on how many rounds your ordinary infantryman can carry on his person. That makes the 6.8 the best compromise on power+portability.

The bullpup design lets you mush a full size barrel into a short-profile weapon that can be used in MOUT, CQB, or in vehicles.

Of course, that means we would have to come up with a truly reliable bullpup...