Blueprint for victory being played out...

[TXcarlosTX]

in front of our eyes, just wait, watch and learn. Then sometime in the near future we can have more liberty candidates win.

Haters are always haters.
Purist need to able to point the purity finger to feel good about themselves.

No biggy.

Like I have said, you guys can still party with us when Rand wins.


Its all good.

[damiengwa]

in front of our eyes, just wait, watch and learn. Then sometime in the near future we can have more liberty candidates win.
Haters are always haters.
Purist need to able to point the purity finger to feel good about themselves.
No biggy.
Like I have said, you guys can still party with us when Rand wins.

Its all good.

Yeh bc once rand wins we'll have liberty right? Look there was once a time in libertarian history, when these 'we need to win' libertarians discovered that bigots don't like government. Then an a-hole (probably lew rockwell) took the good congressman's name and started defecating racially-charge libertarian-sounding rhetoric in the ron paul newsletter. maybe they pick up some funding from those scum, and let them fund a few more outbound faxes, and candidates. but then when it was on the line what did the opponents bring up?

You have to speak truth directly to the people. The electoral process is a nice platform to do that. If you win all the better because your bull horn gets louder. If you lose you put your energy into more education and other activism.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. All throughout the bible Satan is portrayed as a purveyor of lies, and God analogized to the truth. Did Jesus equivocate? Did he win the argument? No, they crucified him and many came out to cheer it. But what he said stuck. And his apostles didn't give up. And their followers didn't. They took the Good Word to every corner of the world, and still to this day do so.

Now of course Rand running for senate is not Jesus standing up to the Pharisees perverting religion and morality. But the analogy holds. The man Rand Paul is irrelevant to me. I could care less if he 'wins' or 'loses' per se, i care about whether he frees people's minds. Because if you win the hearts and minds you win, period.

If the issue is unpopular, you need to be more creative about how you present it. Some triangulation is acceptable, but only to prolong the discussion and avoid being dismissed out of hand. Turning tale on principle and playing ball will just end in disaster.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[TXcarlosTX]

Yeh bc once rand wins we'll have liberty right? Look there was once a time in libertarian history, when these 'we need to win' libertarians discovered that bigots don't like government. Then an a-hole (probably lew rockwell) took the good congressman's name and started defecating racially-charge libertarian-sounding rhetoric in the ron paul newsletter. maybe they pick up some funding from those scum, and let them fund a few more outbound faxes, and candidates. but then when it was on the line what did the opponents bring up?

You have to speak truth directly to the people. The electoral process is a nice platform to do that. If you win all the better because your bull horn gets louder. If you lose you put your energy into more education and other activism.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. All throughout the bible Satan is portrayed as a purveyor of lies, and God analogized to the truth. Did Jesus equivocate? Did he win the argument? No, they crucified him and many came out to cheer it. But what he said stuck. And his apostles didn't give up. And their followers didn't. They took the Good Word to every corner of the world, and still to this day do so.

Now of course Rand running for senate is not Jesus standing up to the Pharisees perverting religion and morality. But the analogy holds. The man Rand Paul is irrelevant to me. I could care less if he 'wins' or 'loses' per se, i care about whether he frees people's minds. Because if you win the hearts and minds you win, period.

If the issue is unpopular, you need to be more creative about how you present it. Some triangulation is acceptable, but only to prolong the discussion and avoid being dismissed out of hand. Turning tale on principle and playing ball will just end in disaster.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

I say if he wins then he will play our kinda ball. But for now he needs to play in their court. Its just the way it is. Even if he doesnt win on the first day he is bringing up a topic that is tabou in the mainstream and its now being discussed. Its kinda like Ron Paul. If you understand that its not all about winning but educating and laying the foundation for others. I do have to say my mindset might be diffrent because I watch football/soccer so I see everything in terms of "its all in da game".



YouTube - I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbNJx2Efbw&feature=related)

[economics102]

Purists can be pure. Others may play the game but still be allies nonetheless.

Rand Paul is not running for Senate for the same reason Ron Paul ran for President.

Ron ran to win hearts and minds and enlighten people, with no intention of winning.

Rand is running to win. His intended contribution to liberty is to be a mainstream voice for liberty, and to hijack the tea party back from the neocons who first hijacked it, to rise up as the leader of the tea party movement and inspire other tea party candidates.

If you know of a purist who can accomplish the latter goals without playing the game a little bit, by all means, tell us and we'll support that person.

The Libertarian Party CHOSE not to run a candidate for KY Senate this election cycle. That is, the people who are hard-line purists and unwilling to introduce their message gradually, instead doing it all immediately, have chosen not to run against Rand. That speaks volumes, as much as I have much disdain for the LP in general.

If the political thought leadership in the country moves toward Rand's more-mainstreamed positions, it will be an enormous shift rightward for the country. And the way things are shaping up, Rand may well emerge as a leader in that movement. He'll no doubt have more opportunity to espouse more views later on.

[Original_Intent]

Purists can be pure. Others may play the game but still be allies nonetheless.

Rand Paul is not running for Senate for the same reason Ron Paul ran for President.

Ron ran to win hearts and minds and enlighten people, with no intention of winning.

Rand is running to win. His intended contribution to liberty is to be a mainstream voice for liberty, and to hijack the tea party back from the neocons who first hijacked it, to rise up as the leader of the tea party movement and inspire other tea party candidates.

If you know of a purist who can accomplish the latter goals without playing the game a little bit, by all means, tell us and we'll support that person.

The Libertarian Party CHOSE not to run a candidate for KY Senate this election cycle. That is, the people who are hard-line purists and unwilling to introduce their message gradually, instead doing it all immediately, have chosen not to run against Rand. That speaks volumes, as much as I have much disdain for the LP in general.

If the political thought leadership in the country moves toward Rand's more-mainstreamed positions, it will be an enormous shift rightward for the country. And the way things are shaping up, Rand may well emerge as a leader in that movement. He'll no doubt have more opportunity to espouse more views later on.

I did not know the LP opted not to run a candidate against Rand. My opinion of the LP just went up several notches.

[damiengwa]

Purists can be pure. Others may play the game but still be allies nonetheless.

Rand Paul is not running for Senate for the same reason Ron Paul ran for President.

Ron ran to win hearts and minds and enlighten people, with no intention of winning.

Rand is running to win. His intended contribution to liberty is to be a mainstream voice for liberty, and to hijack the tea party back from the neocons who first hijacked it, to rise up as the leader of the tea party movement and inspire other tea party candidates.

If you know of a purist who can accomplish the latter goals without playing the game a little bit, by all means, tell us and we'll support that person.

The Libertarian Party CHOSE not to run a candidate for KY Senate this election cycle. That is, the people who are hard-line purists and unwilling to introduce their message gradually, instead doing it all immediately, have chosen not to run against Rand. That speaks volumes, as much as I have much disdain for the LP in general.

If the political thought leadership in the country moves toward Rand's more-mainstreamed positions, it will be an enormous shift rightward for the country. And the way things are shaping up, Rand may well emerge as a leader in that movement. He'll no doubt have more opportunity to espouse more views later on.


How'd that work out for Reagan?

[economics102]

How'd that work out for Reagan?

Good comeback. I don't have a direct counter for that.

And just to be clear I'm not giving Rand carte blanche to lie about his views on positions. I'm just saying sometimes the angels need a sharp sword too, and if Rand needs to walk the line a bit so he can actually get to the Senate, well, we don't exactly have any examples of how a libertarian gets to the Senate by taking the Ron Paul (tm) approach, so I'm not going to jump on the purist bandwagon since I don't have an alternative to offer.

[damiengwa]

Good comeback. I don't have a direct counter for that.

And just to be clear I'm not giving Rand carte blanche to lie about his views on positions. I'm just saying sometimes the angels need a sharp sword too, and if Rand needs to walk the line a bit so he can actually get to the Senate, well, we don't exactly have any examples of how a libertarian gets to the Senate by taking the Ron Paul (tm) approach, so I'm not going to jump on the purist bandwagon since I don't have an alternative to offer.

No problem with a bit of word-smithing... but don't betray the principle thats all i'm saying. you can't come back from it intellectually even if you win the race.