Dr. Norman Finkelstein

[Depressed Liberator]

How come I hadn't heard of this guy before?

YouTube - Jewish girl tries to criticise Dr. Norman Finkelstein (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWkXtl3GOvg)

[nate895]

This reminds of last week at church when somebody said something about bashing Israel too much and asking what people's big problem is. Another guy and myself said at the same time "Oh, it's just the genocide."

[0zzy]

DO-DO-DO-DO-DOMINATED!
COMBO BREAKER!

I need to search this guy up, but I do like how he is both Jewish, connected to the holocaust, and is against the Israeli government's injustice towards Palestinians, cause I grow tired of the "antisemetic" chants you often hear when you do criticize it.

Surely they can't call him antisemetic! Can they? :[ that'd be real sad if they did.

[nate895]

DO-DO-DO-DO-DOMINATED!
COMBO BREAKER!

I need to search this guy up, but I do like how he is both Jewish, connected to the holocaust, and is against the Israeli government's injustice towards Palestinians, cause I grow tired of the "antisemetic" chants you often hear when you do criticize it.

Surely they can't call him antisemetic! Can they? :[ that'd be real sad if they did.

"Well now, ya see, what is going on in Norman Finkelstein's mind is a genetic memory of the indoctrination and degradation his parents went through when they lived under Nazi Germany. Obviously he has learned to accept his second-class status and is forced to attack Jews as the source of the world's problems, because anybody who attacks Israel must believe in a massive Jewish conspiracy to control the world."

[eproxy100]

Respect for that great man!

[maqsur]

Really good answer. I like the way he told that douche in the line to "please shut up!"

[lester1/2jr]

black terrel "what's this guys problem. why doesn't he get with the program. the israeli military has hot chicks, the arab ones don't have any"

[Imaginos]

I have been saying this many times but let me repeat myself.
Dr. Norman Finkelstein deserves Nobel peace prize.
If you want to know about him, start from his masterpiece, The Holocaust Industry.
That book enlightened me to the subject of Israel more than any book in the world.
The book articulates how Israel and Israeli lobby is manipulating public opinion through MSM and various other propaganda outlets to pursue their interest.
(And don't forget how they made it virtually impossible for anyone to criticize Israeli policy because ADL will jump on right away and brand him or her as an anti-Semite.)
Dr. Finkelstein has been trying to promote peaceful co-existence between Israel and Palestinian for many years.
And do you know what Zionists did to him?
Zionists in academic circle kicked Dr. Finkelstein out of school and got rid of his livelihood. :mad:
And they are calling him anti-Semite because he has criticized Israel's treatment of Palestinians!!!
Do you know what other person they labeled as an anti-Semite?
How about Dr. Hajo Meyer?
Dr. Meyer is also Jewish and survived Nazi death camp himself!
Israeli propaganda outlets now calling him an 'anti-Semite' for criticizing Israel's treatment of Palestinians and etc.
Dr. Meyer is a human right activist who promotes peace and harmony yet Israel labeled him as anti-Semite!!!!
They are calling 86 years old, peace loving humanitarian Jewish scholar as anti-Semite!
Recently Dr. Meyer said something that is truly remarkable that is, "Anti-Semite is used to be someone who hates Jews indiscriminately. But now adays, Anti-Semite is someone who hated by Jews".
His explanation sums up the whole situation.

[Imaginos]

YouTube - CrossTalk: Norman Finkelstein vs. Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLB8DfhnJD0)

[Imaginos]

YouTube - CrossTalk on Holocaust: Murder Revenues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCKTKMFTprM)

[YumYum]

This man is a hero. He exposed the bad Jews who profit from the holocaust with his book "The Holocaust Industry". This book is banned in America, and yet was a number one seller throughout Europe, including Germany.

This man represents to me what real Jews are all about: humanitarians, selflessly helping others at their own expense. He was fired from his teaching post because of the legal threats made by Alan Dershowitz. If the Jews want to run this country, which they do, they need to put men like Dr. Finkelstein in office, not Joe Lieberman and Lloyd Blankfein.

[Imaginos]

This man is a hero. He exposed the bad Jews who profit from the holocaust with his book "The Holocaust Industry". This book is banned in America, and yet was a number one seller throughout Europe, including Germany.
The Holocaust Industry banned in America? Amazon sells the book as of today?
Either way, Finkelstein said that the only reason he was able to publish the book was he was Jew himself so ADL can't use anti-Semite card to ban his work before its publication.
However, ever since Dr. Finkelstein's truth telling had spread out like wild fire among academic-intellectual circle, Zionists jumped in, kicked him out of school, took out his livelihood, and branded him as anti-Semite!
The son of holocaust survivors is anti-Semite because he dared to criticize Israel/Israeli lobby!

[Imaginos]

This man represents to me what real Jews are all about: humanitarians, selflessly helping others at their own expense. He was fired from his teaching post because of the legal threats made by Alan Dershowitz. If the Jews want to run this country, which they do, they need to put men like Dr. Finkelstein in office, not Joe Lieberman and Lloyd Blankfein.
I agree.
There are many great Jews who are really honest and upstanding.
People need to know when someone criticizes Israel and Israeli lobby, that IS DIFFERENT than bashing Jewish descents entirely.
Many of my heroes in science and academia in general are Jews.
However, there are some bad people among Jewish community (just like any other group of people) yet those rotten individuals using certain tactics (using ADL and MSM) to undermine LEGIT CRITICISM upon them.
If I criticize Sarah Palin, does that make me an anti-Alaskan?
If I criticize Mao, does that make me an anti-Chinese?
HELL NO!
Same standard should be applied to criticizing Israel and Israeli lobby!
I do not hate Jews.
I am just speaking out on certain things when those are harmful to American interest!

[lester1/2jr]

in similar news, noam chomsky has been denied entry to israel. breaking now

[YumYum]

Good points, Imaginos! I think there are many people who were not anti-Semitic, but became anti-Semitic because the bad Jews are in control and because of Israel's policies. As a Jew, I can say that the good Jews I know personally, and that I admire, are like Dr. Finkelstein. They are opened minded, caring people, who are ashamed of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. There are many good Jews, including myself (I try to be good:D), who are scared shitless, that Israel's actions are bringing on a new wave of world-wide antisemitism, where many innocent Jews will end up being victims, because of the actions of a few bad Jews. Many of the good Jews are social libertarians, and we should refrain from calling them "communists", while they continue to fight the good fight. I worry about the welfare of Dr. Finkelstein, as well as the welfare of Dr. Paul. They are both great leaders who need protection from evil people, and we should provide it for them.

When I wanted to buy "The Holocaust Industry", I could not order it through any bookstore. I had to buy it online. While it is not official, "The Holocaust Industry" is banned from being sold in any bookstores in the United States.

[Imaginos]

in similar news, noam chomsky has been denied entry to israel. breaking now
Tragic, utterly tragic.
Noam Chomsky is a peace loving, left-progressive Jewish scholar yet Israel is trying to label him as an anti-Semite for the mortal sin of 'uttering any criticism of any of Israel's policies'.
:mad:

[YumYum]

By the way, not all Zionists are bad. Richard Goldstone is a Zionist, and is a good Jew. It comes down to whether a Jew is either good or bad, as with all people.

Read The Goldstone Report:

http://www.goldstone-report.org/

[Imaginos]

Good points, Imaginos! I think there are many people who were not anti-Semitic, but became anti-Semitic because the bad Jews are in control and because of Israel's policies. As a Jew, I can say that the good Jews I know personally, and that I admire, are like Dr. Finkelstein. They are opened minded, caring people, who are ashamed of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. There are many good Jews, including myself (I try to be good:D), who are scared shitless, that Israel's actions are bringing on a new wave of world-wide antisemitism, where many innocent Jews will end up being victims, because of the actions of a few bad Jews. Many of the good Jews are social libertarians, and we should refrain from calling them "communists", while they continue to fight the good fight. I worry about the welfare of Dr. Finkelstein, as well as the welfare of Dr. Paul. They are both great leaders who need protection from evil people, and we should provide it for them.
When I wanted to buy "The Holocaust Industry", I could not order it through any bookstore. I had to buy it online. While it is not official, "The Holocaust Industry" is banned from being sold in any bookstores in the United States.
Yes, there are many good Jews who do not agree with Israel governemt's policies.
And like any other group of people, the rotten ones who rip off people and implementing bad policies are always small in number.
And people who have to deal with all the negative blowbacks are the innocent average Joe types. Isn't it crazy?
And it's interesting that you are Jewish descent yourself because I am an Asian yet I am very vocal when I see the shortcoming from Asian community.
I don't give them any break because we shared same gene.
I have been heavily criticizing Asian Americans on the issue of lack of political participation and cultural assimilation.
Does that make me an anti-Asian?
Sounds ridiculous, isn't it?
Some people just think everything out of pure emotion and group-oriented idea.
I couldn't/can't understand it ever since I was a child.
Maybe that makes me a born libertarian. LOL.

[YumYum]

Yes, there are many good Jews who do not agree with Israel governemt's policies.
And like any other group of people, the rotten ones who rip off people and implementing bad policies are always small in number.
And people who have to deal with all the negative blowbacks are the innocent average Joe types. Isn't it crazy?
And it's interesting that you are Jewish descent yourself because I am an Asian yet I am very vocal when I see the shortcoming from Asian community.
I don't give them any break because we shared same gene.
I have been heavily criticizing Asian Americans on the issue of lack of political participation and cultural assimilation.
Does that make me an anti-Asian?
Sounds ridiculous, isn't it?
Some people just think everything out of pure emotion and group-oriented idea.
I couldn't/can't understand it ever since I was a child.
Maybe that makes me a born libertarian. LOL.

You must be a "Self-Hating Asian" :D.

I'm not in the habit of quoting the Apostle Paul, but I like his comments at 1st Corinthians the 5th Chapter, where he says at verses 6 and 7:

"....Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast; as you really are."

Looks like America right now has a bad yeast infection.:(

[The Patriot]

This reminds of last week at church when somebody said something about bashing Israel too much and asking what people's big problem is. Another guy and myself said at the same time "Oh, it's just the genocide."

What genocide?

[CUnknown]

What genocide?

They are slowly exterminating the Palestinians. They starve them of food, electricity periodically... launch periodic airstrikes and ground invasions, destroying apartment buildings, etc. They also target humanitarian aid attempting to reach Gaza.

[The Patriot]

They are slowly exterminating the Palestinians. They starve them of food, electricity periodically... launch periodic airstrikes and ground invasions, destroying apartment buildings, etc. They also target humanitarian aid attempting to reach Gaza.

No they aren't, in fact, there has been a 30% rise in the Palestinian population, but you wouldn't know that, as you would rather speak in anti Israeli platitudes than facts. If the wiping out of a people concerns you, than I suggest you look at the manifesto of Hamas which seeks to eliminate the state of Israel and the Jewish state.
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3504621,00.html
http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html

So there is no genocide, by any conventional definition. The only time they have shut off supplies is when Hamas launches attacks on Israel, for security reasons. If Hamas didn't attack civilian targets and initiate the conflict by firing rockets, no such things would happen. All it is is a security precaution to make sure Hamas doesn't get supplies. If you truly cared about the innocent arabs, than you would condemn Hamas using innocent civilians as human shields to deter Israeli attacks. But your MO isn't really pro civilian, it is anti Israel.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/Hamas+exploitation+of+civilians+as+human+shields+-+Photographic+evidence.htm

[maqsur]

Ahh blame the victims of the occupation for their suffering. This old tactic doesn't work anymore. Yes, those Palestinians are getting themselves killed; how dare they even voice any opposition to being oppressed by Israel, those shining white knights of civilization.

:rolleyes:

[Imaginos]

You must be a "Self-Hating Asian" :D.

I'm not in the habit of quoting the Apostle Paul, but I like his comments at 1st Corinthians the 5th Chapter, where he says at verses 6 and 7:

"....Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast; as you really are."

Looks like America right now has a bad yeast infection.:(
You got me.
That's right. I am a self-hating, anti-Asian, Asian. LOLOL. :D
By the way your quote is very appropriate one, in my opinion.
And America DOES have a bad yeast infection.
:(

[michaelwise]

I felt it very important to post this movie with Dr. Norman Finkelstein in it on a paid hosting site.

Defamation: True Stories on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/9102650)

[The Patriot]

Ahh blame the victims of the occupation for their suffering. This old tactic doesn't work anymore. Yes, those Palestinians are getting themselves killed; how dare they even voice any opposition to being oppressed by Israel, those shining white knights of civilization.

:rolleyes:

I blamed Hamas, yes, if you consider this radical islamic outfit who supports sharia law, attacks Israeli civilians and uses Arab women and children and civilian centers as shields are victims, then there is something wrong with you mentally. The fact is, there is nothing of substance in your argument, it is just snippy and condescending and addresses none of the issues I brought up.

Hamas oppresses those they govern, why don't you complain about that? Complain about that instead of complaining about Israel defending itself from terrorists. Yes, Israel is a beacon of western civilization amongst uncivilized and violent governments which wish to eliminate the state of Israel.

[WaltM]

The Holocaust Industry banned in America? Amazon sells the book as of today?


yes, they do still sell it.

not too expensive either.




Either way, Finkelstein said that the only reason he was able to publish the book was he was Jew himself so ADL can't use anti-Semite card to ban his work before its publication.


And so he used the "I'm a Jew card" or "My parents are survivors too" to exploit the Holocaust industry for himself.




However, ever since Dr. Finkelstein's truth telling had spread out like wild fire among academic-intellectual circle, Zionists jumped in, kicked him out of school, took out his livelihood, and branded him as anti-Semite!


what makes his beliefs "truth telling"?

and what if he's wrong? How else do you treat a person like him?



The son of holocaust survivors is anti-Semite because he dared to criticize Israel/Israeli lobby!

well yeah, that's the definition of it (the new one at least).
The fact he wishes to use his parents to exempt him from the accusation makes him equally guilty of exploiting the status of being a Jew or survivor.

[WaltM]

I felt it very important to post this movie with Dr. Norman Finkelstein in it on a paid hosting site.

Defamation: True Stories on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/9102650)

this is the film where he says

"Foxman is worse than Hitler, at least he didn't do it for money"

Here's the exact segment is here
YouTube - Norman Finkelstein in "Defamation" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcWIaYJGlOQ)
(notice the subliminal "Lobby" in the stairs?)

and then "well, take it out, if you don't like it, that's what you're the director for!"

Luckily the director didn't go Michael Moore on him!

[Depressed Liberator]

He said in that first video I posted that he didn't like or want to use it, but had to in that case.

[Imaginos]

And so he used the "I'm a Jew card" or "My parents are survivors too" to exploit the Holocaust industry for himself.

He stated the fact to defend himself. What would you do someone kicked you out of work for your opinion (which should be protected by the first amendment) ?

what makes his beliefs "truth telling"?

- Then what makes your version of the story of Israel any more truthful than Dr. Finkelstein? Why don't you publish books or giving speech? Let people listen freely then decide. What are you afraid of?

and what if he's wrong? How else do you treat a person like him?

If someone is wrong on any issue, majority of people lose interest and ignore him. That's how free society should work. You can't have free society by kicking out people from work just because they criticized a thing or two about Israel.

well yeah, that's the definition of it (the new one at least).
The fact he wishes to use his parents to exempt him from the accusation makes him equally guilty of exploiting the status of being a Jew or survivor.

-Again, what would you do if you lost your livelihood and get attacked by people claiming that you hate a certain group of people indiscriminately? When did Dr. Finkelstein ever say he doesn't like Jews in general? He never criticized Jewish people in general! Read the book and find a single paragraph where he blamed average Joe Jewish people! He never did! He only criticized Israel government. Do you consider people who criticize Obama administration as an anti-America? Do you realize how absurd your logic is?

Do you consider people who criticize Obama administration as an anti-America?
Do you consider people who criticize Sarah Palin as an anti-Alaskan?
Do you consider people who criticize Mao as an anti-Chinese?
Do you realize how absurd this is?
And The First Amendment means nothing to you?
And how often did you see people losing jobs and livelihood by criticizing Muslims? :rolleyes:

[maqsur]

I blamed Hamas, yes, if you consider this radical islamic outfit who supports sharia law, attacks Israeli civilians and uses Arab women and children and civilian centers as shields are victims, then there is something wrong with you mentally. The fact is, there is nothing of substance in your argument, it is just snippy and condescending and addresses none of the issues I brought up.

Hamas oppresses those they govern, why don't you complain about that? Complain about that instead of complaining about Israel defending itself from terrorists. Yes, Israel is a beacon of western civilization amongst uncivilized and violent governments which wish to eliminate the state of Israel.

On second thought, this is the internet... not worth it. You're just a blip.

[The Patriot]

The irony of your post is that is comes off as "snippy and condescending." I appreciate that your words are very pro-Israel, and that is your full right. I happen to take the opposite view, and I don't view Israel favorably at all. You are right about being a beacon of western civ, because a lot of western civilizations have been involved in colonialisation and brutalisation of the "other."

The human shield argument is one used extensively by the Israeli military, which has also been known to go into Palestinian towns and use Palestinians as shields when they go door to door to randomly arrest people.

This whole "Israel is defending itself" has no credibility, but feel free to keep trying it. Maybe it will stick with some people who don't do any thinking. I love how a nuclear armed government with one of the top militaries in the world is "defending itself" against it's oppressed subjects who dare to rise up with homemade rockets (which have killed what, a handful of people, as opposed to thousands of Palestinian deaths).

I don't condone any killing of civilians anywhere, it's wrong period. I don't justify it in any way. But to act like Israel is the poor victim... I pity you.

Just stop with the colonial bullspat, I had to hear it all through high school, look, this isn't some marxist liberation theology class. If it wasn't for colonization, America wouldn't exist, nor would Australia, South Africa(well until 1994), Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, or New Zealand, just to name a few, ok? So if you are a man of your word, go back to Europe. And Israel isn't even colonizing the Palestinians, the Palestinians have their own government in the west bank(Fatah) and elected a terrorist organization in Gaza(Hamas)

So nuclear armed nations cannot defend themselves from attacks upon their civilians? What would you prefer they do? Nuke the Palestinians? Does their nuclear capacity prohibit them from protecting their citizens? Look, just because ISrael has more effective weapons and Hamas shields themselves with innocent women and children and hides in schools and houses doesn't make Israel bad. If Hamas didn't initiate the attacks, and then hide behind civilians, you wouldn't see the collateral damage you see. I pity you, you are defending a government that not only attacks innocent Israelis, but uses the people it claims to represent through government as shields and than uses their deaths as propaganda to justify terrorist acts.

[WaltM]

Do you consider people who criticize Obama administration as an anti-America?


No, but I consider a person who criticizes every President they see as anti-American or anti-government.




Do you consider people who criticize Sarah Palin as an anti-Alaskan?


No, because she doesn't represent Alaska.




Do you consider people who criticize Mao as an anti-Chinese?


No, because no Chinese is Chinese by his following of Mao, at least not today.



Do you realize how absurd this is?


Nope. Zionists define anti-Semitism as insensitivity and hositility towards people whom serve Israel, an anti-Semite is a person whom the Jews hate, regardless of what his parents are, who else he hates and whether he actually hates Jews for being Jews.



And The First Amendment means nothing to you?


It means something. What are you asking?



And how often did you see people losing jobs and livelihood by criticizing Muslims? :rolleyes:

Not often, but I have, when the victim is gay, black or Mexican.

[maqsur]

Just stop with the colonial bullspat, I had to hear it all through high school, look, this isn't some marxist liberation theology class. If it wasn't for colonization, America wouldn't exist, nor would Australia, South Africa(well until 1994), Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, or New Zealand, just to name a few, ok? So if you are a man of your word, go back to Europe. And Israel isn't even colonizing the Palestinians, the Palestinians have their own government in the west bank(Fatah) and elected a terrorist organization in Gaza(Hamas)

So nuclear armed nations cannot defend themselves from attacks upon their civilians? What would you prefer they do? Nuke the Palestinians? Does their nuclear capacity prohibit them from protecting their citizens? Look, just because ISrael has more effective weapons and Hamas shields themselves with innocent women and children and hides in schools and houses doesn't make Israel bad. If Hamas didn't initiate the attacks, and then hide behind civilians, you wouldn't see the collateral damage you see. I pity you, you are defending a government that not only attacks innocent Israelis, but uses the people it claims to represent through government as shields and than uses their deaths as propaganda to justify terrorist acts.

Don't make shit up. I don't defend any state (or nonstate) violence against innocents. But your words seem to do just that, by laying blame only on Palestinians.

If you care so much about your precious Israeli state, then perhaps you would favor ending the occupation, which breeds the very violence you claim to detest. In fact, a one state solution, with all citizens being equal, is the only true solution. Somehow, I don't see you favoring that, you seem to favor the status quo.

PS. Don't bother replying, I don't care about your talking points.

[WaltM]

What would you do someone kicked you out of work for your opinion (which should be protected by the first amendment) ?





your freedom of speech only protects you from legal prosecution, it does not protect you from losing your job. you have no right to keep your job, or have one in the first place.



Why don't you publish books or giving speech? Let people listen freely then decide. What are you afraid of?

I don't need to publish anything, there's enough discourse on it. I don't believe I'm an expert on the Israel/Palestine conflict. And you want people to freely decide? then I suppose you're for democracy, why are you here? You must be happy Obama is president.



You can't have free society by kicking out people from work just because they criticized a thing or two about Israel.

What if his speech was harmful or threatening to people?
What free society doesn't respect an employer's right to terminate whom he wishes?



When did Dr. Finkelstein ever say he doesn't like Jews in general?


so unless he said that, he's not an anti-Semite?



He never criticized Jewish people in general! Read the book and find a single paragraph where he blamed average Joe Jewish people! He never did! He only criticized Israel government. Do you consider people who criticize Obama administration as an anti-America? Do you realize how absurd your logic is?

If I said I can sympathize with suicide bombers, or Nazis who kept Jews in ghettos, does that make me a Palestinian, a Muslim , a Nazi or genocide enabler? Do I need to say I hate the victims to say I want them hurt? Or can simply saying I understand why people hurt them be enough to mean I have less regard for the victims? Do I need to blame the victim to blame the victim? Or can I blame them by saying the people who hurt them aren't wrong?

[YumYum]

Zionists define anti-Semitism as insensitivity and hositility towards people whom serve Israel, an anti-Semite is a person whom the Jews hate, regardless of what his parents are, who else he hates and whether he actually hates Jews for being Jews.

Have you read the book "The Holocaust Industry"?

[The Patriot]

Don't make shit up. I don't defend any state (or nonstate) violence against innocents. But your words seem to do just that, by laying blame only on Palestinians.

If you care so much about your precious Israeli state, then perhaps you would favor ending the occupation, which breeds the very violence you claim to detest. In fact, a one state solution, with all citizens being equal, is the only true solution. Somehow, I don't see you favoring that, you seem to favor the status quo.

PS. Don't bother replying, I don't care about your talking points.

I never said I blame all the Palestinians. I am talking about Hamas. I think it is interesting how you intertwine the two, but that speaks more on you than me.

I am American, it isn't my state, I don't think America should give aid to Israel or the Arabs or dictate settlement policy to the Israelis. No, I don't support a one state solution where people who support Hamas are given a right to vote in the new Israeli government. I don't support intervening or dictating terms to Israel and forcing them to become a radical Islamic state(which is the eventual outcome when Palestinians outnumber the Israelis. It will be 1994 in South Africa all over again, and Israel will decay into a backwards and poor Islamic state.

[Mach]

If you are going to start a thread concerning Dr. Norman Finkelstein you have to post this with it.... I think it's in the forum rule book.

YouTube - Wolf Blitzer is a Zionist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-8aTGnjHnI)

It's funny, when certain issues pop up, certain members pop up and argue.

[WaltM]

Have you read the book "The Holocaust Industry"?

yes. and have recommended it many times to others.

[RM918]

I wouldn't give a flying fuck about Israel, so long as we stopped giving them money, stopped basing our foreign policy on their interests, and they got their lobby the hell out. After that, they can do whatever they want. Their sins will catch up to them regardless.

[Chomsky]

Has anyone seen the documentary on Finkelstein titled, American Radical? Here is a link to the trailer:
http://www.americanradicalthefilm.com/trailer.html
It looks like the OP's clip is from this documentary.
, I have looked extensively for it online in the past but came up empty and has not yet played anywhere near my hometown.
If somebody has a link to a stream of the doc or a torrent it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Nevermind, looks like it is up on youtube.

[yokna7]

I have all of his books. They are meticulous and some of the most thoroughly researched books I have ever read.

[yokna7]

The best interview ever by Finkelstein is a Democracy Now interview he did with Alan Dershowitz. There are several, but the one where Douchowitz was not aware Norman was going to be present. He was shaking like a leaf, Finkelstein just dismantles him everytime. lol

No, its with Martin Indyk, no douchowitz. I got my liars, I meant wires crossed.

YouTube - Norman Finkelstein vs Martin Indyk over Gaza and the "Peace Process" 1/8/09 Democracy Now 4 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDS7Oc4LZSA&feature=related)

[catdd]

"Dr. Norman Finkelstein deserves Nobel peace prize."

I would love to see it.

[South Park Fan]

Just stop with the colonial bullspat, I had to hear it all through high school, look, this isn't some marxist liberation theology class. If it wasn't for colonization, America wouldn't exist, nor would Australia, South Africa(well until 1994), Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, or New Zealand, just to name a few, ok? So if you are a man of your word, go back to Europe. And Israel isn't even colonizing the Palestinians, the Palestinians have their own government in the west bank(Fatah) and elected a terrorist organization in Gaza(Hamas)

Colonization was violent in those instances too. I'm guessing you have never heard of the Trail of Tears? Also find it interesting that you cite apartheid South Africa as a positive example of colonialism. Of course, I concur that colonization need not necessarily be violent; it is just settlers in America were for the most part in uninhabited land. The parts that were already inhabited but not voluntarily purchased led to the injustices against the Indians that we know of today. Similarly in Israel, about 7% of the region was legitimately purchased or homesteading (Here is a map of legitimate Jewish settlements in the region (http://www.statemaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Map_of_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine_in_1947.png )). I don't think that settlement in those areas ought to be contested. However, as you can see from the map, most of Israel was taken from the Palestinian lands during the wars in 1947, 1948, and 1967. Many areas of the West Bank remain under Israeli occupation (Here (http://inside.isb.ac.th/jkenney/files/2009/06/west_bank__gaza_map_2007_settlements.gif) is a map of those areas.) Additionally, while Gaza is not directly occupied by the Israelis, the illegal blockade Israel maintains on Gaza is just as inhumane.


So nuclear armed nations cannot defend themselves from attacks upon their civilians? What would you prefer they do? Nuke the Palestinians? Does their nuclear capacity prohibit them from protecting their citizens? Look, just because ISrael has more effective weapons and Hamas shields themselves with innocent women and children and hides in schools and houses doesn't make Israel bad. If Hamas didn't initiate the attacks, and then hide behind civilians, you wouldn't see the collateral damage you see. I pity you, you are defending a government that not only attacks innocent Israelis, but uses the people it claims to represent through government as shields and than uses their deaths as propaganda to justify terrorist acts.

I don't believe any legitimate non-Islamist critic of Israel would suggest that Hamas, Fatah, or Hezbollah are any better than Israel. Thus, you are making a straw man. Given the blowback theory, the proper mode of response to Palestinian militant attacks on Israel would be for the Israeli government to end the source of their aggravation: withdraw from the Palestinian territories and allow the right of return to refugees who can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they had settled in the land they wished to return to. This is not to suggest that the U.S. government should do anything about it, but it is just an example of private individuals promoting a solution to foreign conflicts. Would you also criticize opponents of the genocide in Darfur and of Chinese repression of being interventionist?

[yokna7]

Just stop with the colonial bullspat, I had to hear it all through high school, look, this isn't some marxist liberation theology class. If it wasn't for colonization, America wouldn't exist, nor would Australia, South Africa(well until 1994), Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, or New Zealand, just to name a few, ok? So if you are a man of your word, go back to Europe. And Israel isn't even colonizing the Palestinians, the Palestinians have their own government in the west bank(Fatah) and elected a terrorist organization in Gaza(Hamas)

So nuclear armed nations cannot defend themselves from attacks upon their civilians? What would you prefer they do? Nuke the Palestinians? Does their nuclear capacity prohibit them from protecting their citizens? Look, just because ISrael has more effective weapons and Hamas shields themselves with innocent women and children and hides in schools and houses doesn't make Israel bad. If Hamas didn't initiate the attacks, and then hide behind civilians, you wouldn't see the collateral damage you see. I pity you, you are defending a government that not only attacks innocent Israelis, but uses the people it claims to represent through government as shields and than uses their deaths as propaganda to justify terrorist acts.


This is typical of the superficial knowledge of the situation. This is simply apartheid. We should ask ourselves one thing in regards to this issue: Do we support apartheid? Do you?

[The Patriot]

This is typical of the superficial knowledge of the situation. This is simply apartheid. We should ask ourselves one thing in regards to this issue: Do we support apartheid? Do you?

Israel doesn't engage in Apartheid, so you are asking a moot question. My position on South African Apartheid is independent of this conversation.

[fj45lvr]

When I wanted to buy "The Holocaust Industry", I could not order it through any bookstore. I had to buy it online. While it is not official, "The Holocaust Industry" is banned from being sold in any bookstores in the United States.


Seriously???


That is incredible.... WOW..


that alone should tell us something very profound about this country and zionist control.

[fj45lvr]

Israel isn't even colonizing the Palestinians, the Palestinians have their own government in the west bank(Fatah) and elected a terrorist organization in Gaza(Hamas)

.


This statement alone is the problem in a nutshell.

The Israelis most definitely are "colonizing"...why can't the Palestinians control their own water or dig their own wells on their "territory"

Did you forget the terrorism against Palestinians and violent taking of their lands in 1948??

What would you do if that happened to you in LA by some latinos claiming that this was their "homeland" because their ancestors lived there hundreds of years ago??

Wake up.

[The Patriot]

Colonization was violent in those instances too. I'm guessing you have never heard of the Trail of Tears? Also find it interesting that you cite apartheid South Africa as a positive example of colonialism. Of course, I concur that colonization need not necessarily be violent; it is just settlers in America were for the most part in uninhabited land. The parts that were already inhabited but not voluntarily purchased led to the injustices against the Indians that we know of today. Similarly in Israel, about 7% of the region was legitimately purchased or homesteading (Here is a map of legitimate Jewish settlements in the region (http://www.statemaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Map_of_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine_in_1947.png )). I don't think that settlement in those areas ought to be contested. However, as you can see from the map, most of Israel was taken from the Palestinian lands during the wars in 1947, 1948, and 1967. Many areas of the West Bank remain under Israeli occupation (Here (http://inside.isb.ac.th/jkenney/files/2009/06/west_bank__gaza_map_2007_settlements.gif) is a map of those areas.) Additionally, while Gaza is not directly occupied by the Israelis, the illegal blockade Israel maintains on Gaza is just as inhumane.



I don't believe any legitimate non-Islamist critic of Israel would suggest that Hamas, Fatah, or Hezbollah are any better than Israel. Thus, you are making a straw man. Given the blowback theory, the proper mode of response to Palestinian militant attacks on Israel would be for the Israeli government to end the source of their aggravation: withdraw from the Palestinian territories and allow the right of return to refugees who can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they had settled in the land they wished to return to. This is not to suggest that the U.S. government should do anything about it, but it is just an example of private individuals promoting a solution to foreign conflicts. Would you also criticize opponents of the genocide in Darfur and of Chinese repression of being interventionist?

What does the trail of tears have to do with this? Do I agree with what andrew Jackson did, no, but that is tough shit for the Five Civilized tribes at this point, America lost, they won, and I am not giving up America because of it. But most of America was settled through homesteading. My ancestors homesteaded when they came here in 1690, they didn't steal any land. And you know what? Tough shit to those north american indian nomads. They had tens of thousands of years to settle the land and squandered their chance by being nomads an developing no civilization. they have no right to the land anymore then me. They aren't any more native than me. A nation is defined by borders, and property ownership is defined individual. Their ethnicity doesn't entitle them to land. And yes, South Africa was a positive example of colonialism. They were a first world power with a high standard of living. Now blacks have higher crime rates, higher aids rates, higher unemployment, higher inflation, a weaker currency, and large scale illegal immigration. Things are worse for blacks and whites and whites who can afford to leave are leaving the country.

I agree, Israel won a lot of land in the 1948 war, but the arab nations and the palestinians waged war on them and lost. Seems like tough shit more than anything else. They messed with the bull and got the horns. If they didn't want that land "stolen", they shouldn't have attacked Israel. And then they did the same thing in 1967, only to get whooped again. Quite frankly, they should be thankful ISrael was nice enough to give back the west bank and gaza and let them elect terrorist governments in the name of self determination. Military blockades are not inhumane when you are blocking of supplies to an enemy who is attacking you.

I created no strawman, the other poster was the one who intertwined the Palestinians with Hamas, he created the strawman by saying I blamed the "palestinians" for their suffering. And Arabs never owned significant portions of private property, the overwhelming majority were nomads, and their was no national entity of Palestine. Not to say some people's individual property rights were not violated, but the majority of palestinians were not property owners. Of course, if Israel ceased to exist, Hamas would stop attacking, but Israel doesn't want to cease to exist, they are not suicidal, they won't cave to the demands of killer maniacs and surrender their sovereignty.

[The Patriot]

This statement alone is the problem in a nutshell.

The Israelis most definitely are "colonizing"...why can't the Palestinians control their own water or dig their own wells on their "territory"

Did you forget the terrorism against Palestinians and violent taking of their lands in 1948??

What would you do if that happened to you in LA by some latinos claiming that this was their "homeland" because their ancestors lived there hundreds of years ago??

Wake up.

No one is prohibiting Palestinians from digging their own wells. And Israel doesn't control "their" water, the water is in Israel and goes through Palestine.

You mean when the arab nations started a war against the Israelis and lost territory? Maybe they shouldn't have started the war in the first place? Does this ever occur to you?

Well first, very few mestizos that we would today call mexicans lived in the american south west. It was predominantly white european and north american indian. So the claim that because 160 years ago Mexico owned the southwest for 20 years that people from mexico today (mestizos, central american indians etc) have a right to it now is absurd, they have no more of a right to it than a person living in Spain or Russia today. And America didn't even conquer those areas. Texas and California seceded from the mexican dictatorship and wished to be annexed by America. And I would stop immigration, all of it. I would seal the borders like the Israelis do.

[WaltM]

"Dr. Norman Finkelstein deserves Nobel peace prize."

I would love to see it.

He deserves it a little more than Obama, but not much.

Please keep in mind that this expert pundit speaks neither Hebrew nor Arabic.

[eproxy100]

Wow. Check out the arguments of WaltM and "The Patriot". They're such standard zionist arguments that dr. Norman already rebutted them in the videos. Apparently those two didn't bother watching the videos cuz they don't want to accept the truth.

And to WaltM, yes, because dr. Norman doesn't speak Hebrew nor Arabic he must be uninformed about the middle east. Guess only people who speak those languages can be experts in the field. :rolleyes:

[catdd]

He deserves it a little more than Obama, but not much.

Please keep in mind that this expert pundit speaks neither Hebrew nor Arabic.

Who cares what he speaks, he's attempting to bring an end to the violence. You know, there was a time when the Palestinians and Israelis got along perfectly well.
That's why so many of the old one's who remember those days speak out against Zionism.
I would show a video of it, but every time it is shown the thread gets thrown into hot topics for some reason.

[lester1/2jr]

it could have been worse, mr chomsky you could be menstruating and have CP

YouTube - Disabled American abused by Ben Gurion Airport security (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaCinq8swc4)

[fj45lvr]

No one is prohibiting Palestinians from digging their own wells. And Israel doesn't control "their" water, the water is in Israel and goes through Palestine.

You mean when the arab nations started a war against the Israelis and lost territory? Maybe they shouldn't have started the war in the first place? Does this ever occur to you?
.

You know nothing about the water issue obviously from your answer.


and the Israeli "declaration of statehood" and violence was not initiated by the Palestinians. What did happen was against the will of the inhabitants massive amounts of foreign jews immigrated into palestine and then violently "took" lands that they believe they are "promised" as a "birthright".

[South Park Fan]

And yes, South Africa was a positive example of colonialism. They were a first world power with a high standard of living. Now blacks have higher crime rates, higher aids rates, higher unemployment, higher inflation, a weaker currency, and large scale illegal immigration. Things are worse for blacks and whites and whites who can afford to leave are leaving the country.

Yeah, but that "high standard of living" didn't seem to carry on to the bantustans in which the native population was forced to live in. I simply cannot comment on this. I think we both agree that the communistic African National Congress is a hindrance to South Africa's progress, just as Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbollah hinder Palestinian progress. However, you are the one who is defending Israel in this argument, so I would assume that the point of this allegory is to imply that the Apartheid regime was somehow not guilty of any wrongdoing? In which case, your argument is either racist or a non sequitor.


I agree, Israel won a lot of land in the 1948 war, but the arab nations and the palestinians waged war on them and lost. Seems like tough shit more than anything else. They messed with the bull and got the horns. If they didn't want that land "stolen", they shouldn't have attacked Israel. And then they did the same thing in 1967, only to get whooped again. Quite frankly, they should be thankful ISrael was nice enough to give back the west bank and gaza and let them elect terrorist governments in the name of self determination. Military blockades are not inhumane when you are blocking of supplies to an enemy who is attacking you.

I didn't realize that libertarians were supposed to adopt a "Might Versus Right" outlook toward foreign policy. Also, sorry to point out a flaw in your argument, but the war in 1967 was a preemptive war started by Israel with Operation Focus. Additionally, it was not the Palestinians who "messed with the bull", but it was the socialistic Arab Nations occupying Palestinian Territory that were at war with Israel. As I mentioned before, Israel still occupies much of the West Bank. Also, those blockades do not hurt Hamas so much as they hurt the innocent civilians that make up the majority of the population. According to blowback, such blockades probably help Hamas by allowing them to blame Israel for their problems.


I created no strawman, the other poster was the one who intertwined the Palestinians with Hamas, he created the strawman by saying I blamed the "palestinians" for their suffering. And Arabs never owned significant portions of private property, the overwhelming majority were nomads, and their was no national entity of Palestine. Not to say some people's individual property rights were not violated, but the majority of palestinians were not property owners. Of course, if Israel ceased to exist, Hamas would stop attacking, but Israel doesn't want to cease to exist, they are not suicidal, they won't cave to the demands of killer maniacs and surrender their sovereignty.

While I do not defend the actions of Hamas, your view is equally ridiculous for absolving Israel of any guilt in the conflict. It is also ironic that you criticize the Arabs for not owning private property, given the existance of kibbutzim in Israel. Hamas and other terrorist organizations would have a lot less support if Israel ceased to occupy the Palestinian territories.

[freshjiva]

I can attest to all the positive words mentioned thus far in this thread about Norman.

I went to DePaul, and everyone I know that took any of his classes have nothing but raving reviews of the material and his teaching style, even if they disagreed fundamentally with his arguments.

The vast consensus is that his classes were remarkably fair in teaching the history and origins of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. He always maintained a clear separation between his personal research interests (heavy critique of Israel's foreign policies) and the subject matter of his classes (history and political science).

[WaltM]

Who cares what he speaks, he's attempting to bring an end to the violence. You know, there was a time when the Palestinians and Israelis got along perfectly well.
That's why so many of the old one's who remember those days speak out against Zionism.
I would show a video of it, but every time it is shown the thread gets thrown into hot topics for some reason.

send it to me in private.

[Danke]

send it to me in private.

Well, note to self, do not send anything to WaltM in "private."

[Lib111]

BERLIN – Germany's intelligence service has turned over thousands of files on top Nazi Adolf Eichmann's whereabouts after World War II to a journalist who sued for them. But with so many passages blacked out and pages missing, she's taking the matter back to court. …

Merkel's office, which oversees the BND, argued in a filing last month with the Federal Administrative Court in Leipzig that the 3,400 files had been examined and that it had been determined that some should remain withheld for a variety of reasons. It expressed concern that because the information had been received in confidence from other intelligence agencies, to make it public would discredit the BND. …

the government is violating the court's original order by withholding so much.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_eichmann_files

[sofia]

DO-DO-DO-DO-DOMINATED!
COMBO BREAKER!

I need to search this guy up, but I do like how he is both Jewish, connected to the holocaust, and is against the Israeli government's injustice towards Palestinians, cause I grow tired of the "antisemetic" chants you often hear when you do criticize it.

Surely they can't call him antisemetic! Can they? :[ that'd be real sad if they did.

no...they called him a "self hating jew" and got him kicked offthe faculty at DePaul University.

[lucius]

How come I hadn't heard of this guy before?

YouTube - Jewish girl tries to criticise Dr. Norman Finkelstein (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWkXtl3GOvg)

Because he speaks truth and the truth must be suppressed for control...no business like Shoah Business...ie. the Holocaust is a contrived/created bankster boondoggle/industry for Israel and Finkelstein, a 'chosen', proved it with his work...

[RedStripe]

dude is awesome