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View Full Version : Contrary To Amnesty Supporters, Illegal Aliens Drain Social Security Rep L Smith




bobbyw24
05-15-2010, 02:21 PM
By REP. LAMAR SMITH Posted 05/12/2010 06:06 PM ET

A recent Rasmussen Reports survey revealed that voters remain concerned about Social Security and whether the system can deliver what the government has promised. According to the survey, 58% of U.S. voters lack confidence that the Social Security system will pay them their future benefits.

Advocates for amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants like to claim that amnesty will "save" Social Security. They also claim that dramatically increased immigration levels will safeguard our retirements and those of our children because more people will pay into the system.

Unfortunately, the opposite is true.

During the last Congress, I asked the Social Security Administration (SSA) to calculate the value in today's dollars of the payroll taxes paid by typical illegal immigrants and their employers as well as the value of their retirement benefits should they receive amnesty. Not only the typical illegal immigrant but any low-skilled immigrant will affect the solvency of the Social Security Trust Fund.

Illegal immigrant workers, often with false identities, can't avoid paying into Social Security but are not eligible to receive retirement benefits for their illegal work. But if they receive amnesty, they can qualify for Social Security retirement benefits based on their earlier illegal work. And those benefits will amount to much more than what they paid into Social Security!

A single male illegal immigrant who works for very low wages and is now 25 years old will receive (at today's value) $15,596 more in Social Security retirement benefits. A similar female illegal immigrant will receive $20,936 more in retirement benefits.

A married illegal immigrant couple in which one spouse works can expect $52,460 more. And a married illegal immigrant couple where both spouses work will receive $39,037 more.

What would be the fiscal impact on the Trust Fund of the legalization of 5 million illegal immigrant couples who both work for very low wages? A staggering $500 billion! That would jeopardize the solvency of Social Security and threaten everyone's retirement.

Of course, Social Security is not the only way in which illegal immigrants negatively impact American taxpayers.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform has estimated that the total cost of K-12 education for illegal immigrant minors and the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants is nearly $29 billion a year.

And there are health care costs. If illegal immigrants are covered in the health care bill (there is not a strong verification mechanism to ensure they won't get benefits), it will increase the bill's costs by as much as $30 billion.

Continue

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=533804

bobbyw24
05-15-2010, 02:22 PM
Gov. Crist: Amensty can can help Social Security

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=244377&highlight=crist

slothman
05-15-2010, 03:44 PM
If they are given amnisty can't the benifit values be changed to not include what they did when they were illegal?
There seem many "easy" ways of fixing that problem if they are made legal.

furface
05-15-2010, 04:48 PM
If they are given amnisty can't the benifit values be changed to not include what they did when they were illegal?
There seem many "easy" ways of fixing that problem if they are made legal.

There's also a need based social security and SSI benefit that has nothing to do with how much you paid into the system. You just have to be a citizen to get it. It would be constitutionally impossible to exclude them from that because of the 5th Amendment.

It's not even just SS proper. I'm guessing that the second amnesty is passed, you would see a massive spike in disability claims.

romacox
05-15-2010, 05:11 PM
If they are given amnisty can't the benifit values be changed to not include what they did when they were illegal?
There seem many "easy" ways of fixing that problem if they are made legal.

According to Ron Paul Amnesty is a loss of U.S. Sovereignty:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=601

Note: Those who advocate a "One World Governing Power" have long been planning for amnesty because it erodes our sovereignty, and erases the borders.
(the North American Union is just the start.)
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2007/12/boughton.htm

(Note: Sovereignty (border protection) works much like fire walls in computers. It protects the world's Nations from fluctuations in individual economies. It also protects against spread of disease, contaminated food, crime, environmentally harmful plants and animals and other things that can destroy a Country, its people and its environment. Sovereignty does allow for trade among countries, contrary to what globalization promoters would have us believe.

slothman
05-15-2010, 06:01 PM
I'm not saying whether amnesty is good or bad, just that it seems possible to only allow benifits when legal.
Of course they can still take money, such as sales and income, via employers, when illegal.
You could also prevent things like disabilty claims to only be allowed when legal long enough.

As for sovereignty, if we made illegal Mexicans legal whilst Mexico didn't make illegal Americans legal it would be a weird one-way border.

The only advantage to being legal is that you can't be deported.

It almost seems good, economically, to give amnesty.
You spend less money on deportation but there is less "under the table" salaries so there is more income tax.
Similar to the "legalize but tax" method of now-illegal drugs.
If it is good though is another matter.

dannno
05-15-2010, 07:22 PM
During the last Congress, I asked the Social Security Administration (SSA) to calculate the value in today's dollars of the payroll taxes paid by typical illegal immigrants and their employers as well as the value of their retirement benefits should they receive amnesty.

This is completely irrelevent to the issue. Fail.

The real issue is, how many illegals are NOT paying SS right now, versus how many are NOT collecting benefits right now. If there are already a lot of illegals collecting SS, and giving them amnesty will increase SS payments by $2 million per year, but taxing all of the illegals will create an increase of $4 million each year in SS collected, then the author is wrong.

I'm not saying the conclusion of the article is wrong, either, I don't know the real numbers.. but the author is a moron.

Zippyjuan
05-15-2010, 07:26 PM
This is completely irrelevent to the issue. Fail.

The real issue is, how many illegals are NOT paying SS right now, versus how many are NOT collecting benefits right now. If there are already a lot of illegals collecting SS, and giving them amnesty will increase SS payments by $2 million per year, but taxing all of the illegals will create an increase of $4 million each year in SS collected, then the author is wrong.

I'm not saying the conclusion of the article is wrong, either, I don't know the real numbers.. but the author is a moron.

Zero illegals are elgible to collect social security but any who are using a fake social security number are paying social security taxes (and other taxes).

From the piece in the first post:

Illegal immigrant workers, often with false identities, can't avoid paying into Social Security but are not eligible to receive retirement benefits for their illegal work.

dannno
05-15-2010, 07:27 PM
Many illegal aliens avoid paying into SS by collecting cash for payment.

I have a hard time believing no SS funds are going to illegals in some way shape or form.

catdd
05-15-2010, 07:39 PM
If this is true it would be a death sentence for SS.

Zippyjuan
05-15-2010, 07:49 PM
Fact Check: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/social-security-for-illegal-immigrants/

We’ll just quickly note that illegal immigrants are broadly disqualified from collecting benefits from government programs, according to U.S. Code, with only limited exceptions. Those exceptions are:

■Emergency medical care (which includes emergency labor and delivery)
■Emergency disaster relief that is provided for the short term and is not a cash payment
■Limited immunizations and testing, and treatment of symptoms of communicable diseases
■Certain community programs, such as soup kitchens or crisis counseling, as specified by the Attorney General
■Limited housing or community development assistance to those already receiving it in 1996
These are the only circumstances under which illegal immigrants can lawfully receive government assistance. Notably absent from this list is any type of Social Security benefits. To repeat: Illegal immigrants cannot legally receive Social Security benefits, and Congress isn’t about to vote on legislation that would change that.

Of course, some immigrants who are here without legal permission do end up receiving Social Security and other benefits, through bureaucratic mistakes or through deliberate fraud. The Government Accountability Office has even called this a "serious problem," though the GAO also says that "the full extent of benefit fraud is unknown." This problem draws the ire of conservative commentators and is sometimes distorted in Internet or e-mail postings to imply falsely that such payments are government policy.

These e-mails and rumors about Social Security have bubbled up so often that we’ve included it in the frequently asked questions on our "Hot Topics" page.



Meanwhile: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_mz1e10ruben.html

Here's the drill: People enter the country illegally, promptly procure bogus Social Security cards from the black market, and use them to get jobs. Eventually they get paid, and those earnings generate W-2s that go to the Social Security Administration, which tucks them away in something called the "earnings suspense file." (The government does try to notify some of the larger employers that Social Security cards they've accepted appear to be phony, but that's about the extent of its efforts to figure out where all this money is coming from.) According to the best estimates of the Social Security Administration, the fund has kept track over the last 20 years of more than $300 billion in total earnings – the vast majority of them attributable to illegal immigrants.

Three-hundred billion dollars! You have to admit that's pretty impressive in a country where no one will admit to actually hiring illegal immigrants in the first place.

But those are just the figures in a ledger. The hard currency is the Social Security taxes that illegal immigrants and their employers pay on those earnings. That rings in at about $7 billion a year. Which is why you don't hear the Social Security Administration raising a fuss over illegal immigration. And to the degree that this arm of the U.S. government has friends in Congress, it could explain why you don't see many pieces of legislation calling for mass deportations of illegal immigrants. I mean, why kill the golden goose?



All this should be an arguement against any amnesty.

constituent
05-16-2010, 10:16 PM
Ok... simple solution, don't naturalize any of them. Make that a condition of the amnesty... like a plea bargain.