How do you convince someone that a free market is worth working towards?

[PBrady]

So lately I've been going on this NC progressive blog, and one of the main people I've argued with is actually the administrator. Whenever he starts to rag on the free market (calling it a 'fantasy' or whatever), I always jump in. I finally asked what his beef was with it, and this was his response:


I have never complained about free markets. They don't exist, so what's to complain about?
My beef is not with free markets, it's with free market extremists, and I suppose you're among them, who argue that "if only we had free markets ... that all would be well."
If only bullfrogs had wings.
If only teh baggers had brains.
If only it were not raining today in Maryland, I could go for a hike.
We agree on the fact that there is no free market. Case closed.
I take the next logical step and argue that this reality won't and can't change, not in the interconnected world we live in.
Free market extremists to hold up the strawman of Libertarian free market utopia as the magic answer to all human problems, as if it were a viable option that could actually happen. It is not a viable option. Indeed, it cannot exist unless you're ready to embrace complete isolationism, widespread death and destruction, and a return to feudalism.

As he says, we both agree that a totally free market simply cannot be achieved, just the way that a totally communist society can't be. However, how do you convince someone that it is still something worth working towards? I think the main part of the problem with him is that it's black or white - totally open or closed - no grey area.

[Andrew-Austin]

Well you could point out the free market is just voluntary interaction as opposed to the government force he idolizes.

Are you sure you know what he means by "free markets don't exist"? He might mean it in a different way than you. Free markets can exist by the way, quite easily.. A market is just a particular section of the economy (human activity), if we can have free markets in the video game industry and in book publishing and in marriage then there we go. Yes, marriage and relationships can be called markets. Ask him why he thinks they can't exist, just saying "that they do not exist now" is not an argument as to why they can't.

[1000-points-of-fright]

The sarcastic argument of the Free Market Utopia is in itself a strawman. Free Marketeers never claim it will be a utopia. Only that it is the most honest, fair and least destructive system.

The central planners are the ones working towards an impossible utopia.

[lester1/2jr]

I usually point out that all the arguments against more liberty: that perverts will run free, that big corporations will strangle little ones, that roads and bridges will fall apart, are all things that are going on now anyway AND we pay tons of taxes and fees

[eproxy100]

So lately I've been going on this NC progressive blog, and one of the main people I've argued with is actually the administrator. Whenever he starts to rag on the free market (calling it a 'fantasy' or whatever), I always jump in. I finally asked what his beef was with it, and this was his response:



As he says, we both agree that a totally free market simply cannot be achieved, just the way that a totally communist society can't be. However, how do you convince someone that it is still something worth working towards? I think the main part of the problem with him is that it's black or white - totally open or closed - no grey area.

They don't seem to have any argument against a totally free market except that it can't exist. Why not ask him why you must "embrace complete isolationism, widespread death and destruction, and a return to fuedalism" if we want a free market?

Anyway, based on their response I doubt they'll listen to reason. I would just keep questioning their "reasoning" and hope that eventually they'll question themselves.

I hope somebody has a better answer for you.

[catdd]

Don't let them put you on the defensive. Ask intelligent questions. Make them explain their positions and hopefully they will see their folly.

[Anti Federalist]

There will always be a free market.

Even in the darkest days of the USSR's empire, where no one was supposed to shop outside of the government stores, there were markets to supply things that people need.

In North Korea today there is a free market, even if illegal.

[mczerone]

So lately I've been going on this NC progressive blog, and one of the main people I've argued with is actually the administrator. Whenever he starts to rag on the free market (calling it a 'fantasy' or whatever), I always jump in. I finally asked what his beef was with it, and this was his response:



As he says, we both agree that a totally free market simply cannot be achieved, just the way that a totally communist society can't be. However, how do you convince someone that it is still something worth working towards? I think the main part of the problem with him is that it's black or white - totally open or closed - no grey area.

Just because its a fantasy to think that murder would ever be eradicated, doesn't mean we should institutionalize murder and regulate its process.

Market aggression will be present in all possible worlds, libertarianism (in it many forms) wants to allow many individual competing forces to work against the evil - not to institutionalize the evil and try to bind its power through old parchment and elected officials.

And to counter his positive argument (that his ideals are better than yours), ask him if he thinks a black market could ever be eradicated in a state controlled system. You'd then show that his solution has a more fatal flaw than yours.

[constituent]

Anyway, based on their response I doubt they'll listen to reason. I would just keep questioning their "reasoning" and hope that eventually they'll question themselves.

I hope somebody has a better answer for you.

no, that's the best answer. ;) :)