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View Full Version : ATF agent tells Maddow viewers to cut ties /w loved ones involved in "fringe groups"




NoHero
05-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Article is mostly about the Oathkeepers and American Grand Jury incident in Tennessee:

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0507/militia-member-arrested-free-birther

The article comments are pretty telling about how well this propaganda is working, or NOT working, on dissatisfied libs.

ItsTime
05-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly,I would not even listen to anyone seriously that talked about such a thing. ~ General Dwight D Eisenhower

Awesome quote.

BuddyRey
05-07-2010, 01:15 PM
Yeah, I'm sure removing all family ties and treating your already troubled and desperate relative like a dark family secret will discourage them from doing anything rash or stupid, since it's not like you're removing their final tentative link to love and sanity and destroying their remaining reasons to live or anything. :D

pcosmar
05-07-2010, 01:23 PM
The first man, Walter Fitzpatrick, was taken into custody after he tried to perform a citizen's arrest of Grand Jury foreman Gary Pettway at the Madison County Courthouse. While his reasons for attempting to arrest Pettway are not clear,

That is simply not true.
http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9021903
http://www.riseupforamerica.com/

NoHero
05-07-2010, 01:31 PM
After re-reading the ATF guy's quote I may have to change the thread title. The wording is so poor, it may mean break off from said group? That said the piece is full of false hoods and smears like calling the accused birthers and militia members without sources.

Linus
05-07-2010, 01:35 PM
Yeah, I'm sure removing all family ties and treating your already troubled and desperate relative like a dark family secret will discourage them from doing anything rash or stupid, since it's not like you're removing their final tentative link to love and sanity and destroying their remaining reasons to live or anything. :D

Oh man...it was good to get a real chuckle for once but I found myself laughing WAY too hard at this. Should I be worried? :cool:

DamianTV
05-07-2010, 01:55 PM
I think we are all better off separating ourselves from the ATF, Maddow, and Main Stream Media.

Bruno
05-07-2010, 02:16 PM
Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly,I would not even listen to anyone seriously that talked about such a thing. ~ General Dwight D Eisenhower

Awesome quote.

Indeed. thanks - I shared it on fb

ChaosControl
05-07-2010, 02:49 PM
Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly,I would not even listen to anyone seriously that talked about such a thing. ~ General Dwight D Eisenhower

Awesome quote.

Full thing


All of us have heard this term "preventive war" since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time, if we believe for one second that nuclear fission and fusion, that type of weapon, would be used in such a war — what is a preventive war?
I would say a preventive war, if the words mean anything, is to wage some sort of quick police action in order that you might avoid a terrific cataclysm of destruction later.
A preventive war, to my mind, is an impossibility today. How could you have one if one of its features would be several cities lying in ruins, several cities where many, many thousands of people would be dead and injured and mangled, the transportation systems destroyed, sanitation implements and systems all gone? That isn't preventive war; that is war.
I don't believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn't even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing.

RM918
05-07-2010, 03:36 PM
His words mainly sat on 'If you are', so I don't think he was talking to family members. That's how I read it.

But man, they are REALLY rabid to try and get an extreme right-wing act of violence going, these guys are drooling over the possibility. All it'll take is one dumbass out of any of these groups, even if the groups have nothing to do with eachother, with a superiority complex about how he'll fire the first shot of the second American Revolution and we're all fucked.

catdd
05-07-2010, 04:00 PM
I think we are all better off separating ourselves from the ATF, Maddow, and Main Stream Media.

Done that long ago, but it pays to keep up with what they're doing.

VegasPatriot
05-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Oath Keepers is an educational organization. Our message is simple: Obey your oath to the Constitution.

In order to be able to spread our message to active duty military and police we must be vigilant of provocateurs. Huff appears to be just that… a provocateur.

Linus
05-07-2010, 04:57 PM
How in the hell anyone could criticize the oath-keepers is bewildering and scary.

It goes to show how Orwellian tactics are so effective: you simply render words meaningless. The idea that it could somehow be a suspicious act for military and law enforcement officers to re-affirm their oaths of office outside of the usual ceremonial "display setting" is absurd.

Lately I keep thinking of the Tower of Babel. When the secular state runs amok, even simple, face-to-face communication becomes loaded with weird and unintended meaning. People cannot communicate anymore because the cultural atmosphere is too fraught.

Not cool. Everyone needs to keep their head, now more than ever.

TC95
05-07-2010, 04:58 PM
Huff is a member of Oath Keepers, a right wing fringe group that exists to uphold the Constitution if they are asked to violate it.

Since when is upholding the Constitution a right wing "fringe" thing? :rolleyes:

catdd
05-07-2010, 05:00 PM
Since when is upholding the Constitution a right wing "fringe" thing? :rolleyes:

Since the SPLC said so. That's why I say they should be arrested for purposefully trying to undermine the constitution.

pcosmar
05-07-2010, 05:03 PM
Oath Keepers is an educational organization. Our message is simple: Obey your oath to the Constitution.

In order to be able to spread our message to active duty military and police we must be vigilant of provocateurs. Fitzpatrick appears to be just that… a provocateur.

:confused:
How. He was acting within the law.
The man he was attempting to arrest was someone breaking the law.

Or is doing something rather than just talking a "provocateur."

VegasPatriot
05-07-2010, 05:21 PM
:confused:
How. He was acting within the law.
The man he was attempting to arrest was someone breaking the law.

Or is doing something rather than just talking a "provocateur."
I had the wrong name... I was referring to Huff.

VegasPatriot
05-07-2010, 05:26 PM
James Cavanaugh FMR. ATF Special Agent …. Wasn’t this guy involved in Waco?

Anti Federalist
05-07-2010, 05:37 PM
James Cavanaugh FMR. ATF Special Agent …. Wasn’t this guy involved in Waco?

Yes he was.

He was the government's Baghdad Bob of the whole incident.

I recall one his famous lies was that the armed helicopters raining fire down on the Davidian church were not armed, "because there were no hard mounted weapons". No, there weren't, just armed goons.

Anti Federalist
05-07-2010, 05:49 PM
Interesting exchange about "Waco Jim" at David V's "Sipsey Street Irregulars" blog:

Gambit: "Waco Jim" Cavanaugh and Gran Torino.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/SoV1AgtKOnI/AAAAAAAACIQ/PzTE1h5Qqr8/s400/WacoJim.bmp

"Waco Jim" Cavanaugh

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/08/gambit-waco-jim-cavanaugh-and-gran.html

It struck me, when I was sending a copy of the last post to "Waco Jim" Cavanaugh, that he probably wishes he had made better choices in 1993 and later, in 1995 when he committed perjury about fire from the helicopters in front of Congress. I mean, unless he's a real mad dog (and informants say he isn't), he's got to hate that moniker "Waco Jim." I mean, really HATE it.

Which, of course, is why I do my damnedest to popularize it. No one ever answered for that monstrous crime. We all still live under "Waco Rules." And Cavanaugh, perhaps not the most guilty of the culpable feds, but certainly one of them, ought to be irritated. It is oh-so-minor payback for his very real sins.

One of my friends yesterday asked me again to explain what a gambit was. I started to give him a chess board reply, then realized there was a concrete example he could better relate to.

"Ever see Gran Torino?" I asked him.

"Sure. It's a great flick."

"Remember the end, when Eastwood goes over to the gang-banger's house and beats the hell out of one of them, then he comes back and tricks them into firing on an unarmed man?"

"Yeah, they shot the shit out of him."

"That was a gambit."

"You WANT the ATF to shoot the shit out of you?"

"No, it's a gambit. The pawn noves forward and occupies the square in chess, why? Because while he's on it, the opposition can't occupy it. They can't move forward in that little neck of the chess board woods because he's there. But if they take him, they open themselves up to other counter-moves that they REALLY won't enjoy. Pawn grubbing in chess is a quick way to lose."

"Mike, the feds kill people all the time and get away with it."

"No they don't. Not all the time. And until the Obamanoids declare war on the American people, they still have to explain themselves to somebody in a court of law. Remember I said about how cockroaches hate the light? Well they really do. And the ATF will not be able to righteously bust me because I have been scrupulous about obeying the law as it now stands. Every time in the 90s they would send a snitch or a provocateur to entrap me, I would pick up the phone and call the state ABI. I have nothing in my house that is illegal, and in fact I've dispersed most everything legal I do own to deny them the "big bad dangerous arsenal" photograph. Back in the 90s, I put pieces of rebar and sprinkles of black powder in every soffit in my house I could find, just to be able to read the headlines: 'ATF tears local man's house apart, finds nothing.'"

"But they can still kill you and plant something on you."

"Sure, but the thing is, WILL THEY BE BELIEVED? Anybody who knows me, or has read my stuff on the Internet, knows what I just told you is true. I don't mess with illegal crap. Period. So, say they plant something. It doesn't change a thing."

"Yeah it does, you'll be in federal prison."

"No I won't. I'm not taking Olofson's Choice. We know now thanks to Olofson and others that you can't get a fair federal trial, and the prisons are filled with people who hate me. The Aryan Brotherhood would kill me as soon as look at me. I've fought racist shits like them all my life, and what's worse, I've been effective at it. The Muslim Brotherhood hates my skin color. MS-13 would kill me because I was a Minuteman and worked the border. Hell, if I thought I could get solitary confinement I might submit, but do you think I would get any consideration from the Bureau of Prisons? They're just another claw on the Leviathan Beast. Just ask poor Olofson. So no, I won't go to prison. I won't even submit to arrest. They have removed that option. When you can't get a fair trial, then all you're left with is an unfair shootout. I've said that before and I mean it. I am an innocent man. I will die an innocent man at the hand of unconstitutional criminal thugs acting under color of law. There are worse ways to die."

"They'll 'taze you bro.' From behind in the grocery store. Drop you right in the vegetable section." We both laughed.

"So? I've got congestive heart failure. The jolt would probably kill me anyway. Heck, even if they throw a net over me, I can still struggle until my heart gives out. I will not submit."

I looked at him and repeated, "I will NOT submit."

"OK. OK. You don't have to convince me, you gotta convince Cavanaugh."

"No I don't. I just have to introduce 'strategic and tactical uncertainty.' That's what a gambit is all about. Cavanaugh's not stupid. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking your enemy is stupid. You'll get yourself and other people killed. Cavanaugh is smart enough to know that taking me out just for what I say, no matter how he hates WHAT I say, is risky. There's courts, there's oversight and then there's the 'One Hundred Heads.'"

"Yeah, I remember that."

"So, he may think that all of that is just talk, but what if it isn't? What if, in order to silence me, he starts a war? He may not believe that. Hell, he probably doesn't. BUT HE CAN'T BE SURE. Look, most of these guys just want to make it to retirement and draw Uncle Sugar's pennies. They're not evil in and of themselves, they just represent an out-control agency that nobody responsible has called to account. That's what makes them so dangerous on the one hand because they think, some of them, that they can get away with anything because they always have. People like that start wars. On the other hand, almost all of them care deeply about surviving long enough to draw their pensions and are allergic to anything that might threaten that. Which brings us back to Gran Torino."

"Huh?"

"Gambit, remember? Does killing me, or more importantly ANYBODY high profile on our side, bring on more trouble than that individual's removal is worth? Because remember, how we got here was a muttered ATF threat on the guy I wrote Holder about. This is far bigger than just me. In fact, it's not really about me at all, so much as it is backing down the Obamanoids and an agency that not even they control, without ANYBODY getting killed. Them or us. So, we must generate strategic and tactical uncertainty. Gambit. Look, every chess player worth his salt recognizes a gambit when it happens. The smart ones figure a way around it. The stupid ones don't and usually lose." I paused.

"The other possibility is that this is all delusions of grandeur on my part and Cavanaugh is merely mildly amused at my blathering. But reports say he isn't. And the threats against the other guy are sure enough real."

"So what if Cavanaugh's too stupid to see it's a gambit?"

"He's not. But even if he is, so what? Our side wins in the end." I pointed to the heavens.

"Oh, shit Mike, quit yer preachin'."

I laughed.

Brooklyn Red Leg
05-07-2010, 05:53 PM
Yes he was.

He was the government's Baghdad Bob of the whole incident.

I recall one his famous lies was that the armed helicopters raining fire down on the Davidian church were not armed, "because there were no hard mounted weapons". No, there weren't, just armed goons.

In other words, he's another traitor who abdicated his oath to the US Constitution. If I were President for 1 day, boy, would the all BATFE, FBI, US Marshal and US Army personnel involved in the Ruby Ridge & Waco incidents be spending the rest of their miserable cock-sucking lives turning big rocks into little rocks in Fort Leavenworth Prison.

Anti Federalist
05-07-2010, 05:55 PM
So says the lying, murderous shitbag that participated in the butchering and incineration of men women and children.


James Cavanaugh, a former ATF Special Agent, joined MSNBC's Rachel Maddow Thursday to talk about the arrest. "Violence can come from the lunatic fringe, and we've seen it time and time and time again. So it can be a very dangerous movement," he said.

Groups like Oath Keepers and American Grand Jury resurge as Democrats come into power, according to Cavanaugh. "Certainly in a Democratic administration they seem to pop up. We saw them heavy in the '90s when President Clinton was in office and now they seem to be back pretty heavy now and we're having a lot of activity around the country," he said.

"If you have a loved one that's associated with a group like that or you are, you need to break off and get and try to get a dose of reality because that's really way out there on the fringe," he said.

Anti Federalist
05-07-2010, 05:57 PM
In other words, he's another traitor who abdicated his oath to the US Constitution. If I were President for 1 day, boy, would the all BATFE, FBI, US Marshal and US Army personnel involved in the Ruby Ridge & Waco incidents be spending the rest of their miserable cock-sucking lives turning big rocks into little rocks in Fort Leavenworth Prison.

That would be too good for miserable pricks like that.

I could be convinced torture was a good thing, applied to people like him and Horiuchi. :mad: :mad: :mad:

No wonder "OathKeepers" has him unnerved.

VegasPatriot
05-07-2010, 06:00 PM
That would be too good for miserable pricks like that.

I could be convinced torture was a good thing, applied to people like him and Horiuchi. :mad: :mad: :mad:

No wonder "OathKeepers" has him unnerved.
I agree