WARNING - Protest government > Lose citizenship > Trial by military tribunal [Archive]

Krugerrand

05-06-2010, 12:04 PM

Altmire bill would strip citizenship from terror helpers

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10126/1056142-84.stm

WASHINGTON -- Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle and both houses of Congress, including Rep. Jason Altmire, D-McCandless, today introduced legislation to strip U.S. citizenship from people with terrorist ties.

The bill's chief sponsors -- Sens. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn, and Scott Brown, R-Mass., Rep. Charlie Dent, R-Allentown, and Mr. Altmire -- said they had been working on the measure for weeks. But the momentum built with Saturday's failed Times Square bombing, allegedly perpetrated by American citizen Faisal Shahzad.

The bill would empower the State Department to revoke citizenship if a person provides material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization or supports open hostilities against the U.S. The State Department already has the right to revoke citizenship of Americans who serve in a foreign armed force that is fighting the U.S., and the lawmakers said they were merely updating the 1940 law to reflect the modern war on terror.
...
Under the proposed law, the State Department could decide to revoke citizenship based on intelligence information showing a citizen is a member of a terrorist group, even before trial or capture. It would not apply retroactively to Mr. Shahzad.
...
Non-citizens would lose protections afforded a U.S. citizen charged with a crime and could be prosecuted in a military tribunal rather than federal court.

Mr. Altmire, who has advocated non-civilian trials for suspects like accused 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, said the military tribunal issue is a secondary one :rolleyes: but still important to the goals of the legislation.

"If you're talking about someone who has taken action -- it has to be proven action -- against the United States, it would expedite the ability to put them in a military tribunal," Mr. Altmire said.

Rerun the Hutaree case under this law ... they have been charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction. They would lose their CITIZENSHIP. Their trial would have been moved to a military tribunal. As it is, there was NO EVIDENCE provided to even justify holding them until trial.

Given how everybody is a terrorist now, this is huge. It sounds like Big Brother is learning from his mistakes. Get these cases out of US courts immediately.

Brooklyn Red Leg

05-06-2010, 12:17 PM

This just keeps getting better and better. :mad:

ChaosControl

05-06-2010, 12:28 PM

That is freaking scary.
1984 proves more true every day.

tangent4ronpaul

05-06-2010, 12:31 PM

This smells like trouble...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution

American Revolution: The right to revolution would play a large part in the writings of the American revolutionaries. The political tract Common Sense used the concept as an argument for rejection of the British Monarchy and separation from the Empire, as opposed to merely self-government within it. It was also cited in the Declaration of Independence of the United States, when a group of representatives from the various states signed a declaration of independence citing charges against King George III. As the American Declaration of Independence in 1776 expressed it, natural law taught that the people were “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights” and could alter or abolish government “destructive” of those rights.

[Ed - I wonder if any of the co-sponsors are from these states... *THAT* would go over really well, come election time... :rolleyes: ]

Examples of the right of revolution as positive law

Although many declarations of independence seek legitimacy by appealing to the right of revolution, far fewer constitutions mention this right or guarantee this right to citizens because of the destabilizing effect such a guarantee would likely produce. Among the examples of an articulation of a right of revolution as positive law include:

* New Hampshire's constitution guarantees its citizens the right to rebellion, in Article 10 of the constitution's Bill of Rights:

Whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.

* The Kentucky constitution also guarantees a right of revolution in Section 1 of the Bill of Rights:

All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety, happiness and the protection of property. For the advancement of these ends, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may deem proper.

* Similar wording is used in Pennsylvania's constitution,[29] under Article 1, Section 2 of the Declaration of Rights:

All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper.

* Article I, §2 of the Tennessee constitution states: "That government being instituted for the common benefit, the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind."
* North Carolina's constitution of November 21, 1789 also contains in its Declaration of Rights, "3d. That Government ought to be instituted for the common benefit, protection and security of the people; and that the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive to the good and happiness of mankind."

-t

Krugerrand

05-06-2010, 01:57 PM

bump ... because I think this is HUGE.

Anti Federalist

05-06-2010, 02:07 PM

bump ... because I think this is HUGE.

It is huge.

And nobody will pay it any mind.

They are too busy ignoring that sick, nervous feeling in their stomachs being caused by the adrenalin, in turn causing the "flight or fight" reaction.

That is what it's come down to.

puppetmaster

05-06-2010, 02:15 PM

the gov will do what it wants....until....

Philhelm

05-06-2010, 02:56 PM

I think the politicians who support this bullshit should have their citizenship revoked. I'm sick and tired of legislation being concocted to presumably defend against terrorism. Fuck, it pisses me off! Pardon my German.

Live_Free_Or_Die

05-06-2010, 03:06 PM

I really don't want to hear about it.

There are people around here who have been very critical of the alleged kooky conspiracy folks who have consistently pointed out everything is a privilege as far as government is concerned.

If you don't believe citizenship is a privilege how can you possibly believe it can be taken away?

paulitics

05-06-2010, 03:43 PM

This is why the military commission act and other uncostitutional acts that the Bush congress passed is dangerous.

Costitutional rights must be guaranteed for those who are in the custody of the U.S, whether a U.S citizen or not. The purpose of this legislation is to make everyone a potential terrorist to be shipped to some unkown place to be detained and tortured at the whim of some politician or beaurocrat.

Military Tribunals of any sort should not be tolerated in any free society.

moostraks

05-06-2010, 03:58 PM

It is huge.

And nobody will pay it any mind.

They are too busy ignoring that sick, nervous feeling in their stomachs being caused by the adrenalin, in turn causing the "flight or fight" reaction.

That is what it's come down to.

yep...:(

osan

05-06-2010, 04:16 PM

Rerun the Hutaree case under this law ... they have been charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction. They would lose their CITIZENSHIP. Their trial would have been moved to a military tribunal. As it is, there was NO EVIDENCE provided to even justify holding them until trial.

Given how everybody is a terrorist now, this is huge. It sounds like Big Brother is learning from his mistakes. Get these cases out of US courts immediately.

What the hell? I swear, life becomes more like a freakish nightmare by the day... sometimes by the hour.

The question of remedies appears to loom larger than ever before. The worst of it is that remedies within the more peaceable envelope appear to be slipping quickly from our reach. These crazy-men are going full throttle with their eyes, ears, and minds tightly shut.

Will we be forced to resort to drastic measures? I am not sure I can see how an election is going to help us now, even if we vote every incumbent out. Am I missing something?

fj45lvr

05-06-2010, 04:22 PM

we have the right to revolt just read the federalist papers and declaration.

Surely this will be struck down...if not then it does help reinforce the fact that we are merely "slaves" and no longer "free" people, no matter what "buzz words" or "slogans" are regurgitated.

tangent4ronpaul

05-06-2010, 04:27 PM

I just got off the phone with Rep. Altmire's DC office. 202-225-2565 and asked about the Terrorist Expatriation Act. The call went something like this...

I asked her for a bill number and was told it didn't have one yet, but that it would modify 8 USC sec 1481

I asked her if the Rep had ever read the PA State Constitution. She said that she presumed he had, but didn't know.

Then I asked if she could point out the section of the US Constitution that allowed the Federal Government / Congress to step on it. At this point, it was obvious that she knew it was not going to be a good call.... She asked me to clarify what I was referring to and said that she could not comment, but only enter my feedback into her system. Then got really, really quiet... (poor girl!)

I said - you know, HS civics class. We are suppose to have a "right to revolution" - you know, the Declaration of Independence, not to mention the state Constitutions of NH, KY, PA, TN, NC and probably some others. This "Support open hostilities against the US" clause would seem to make those null and void.

Then I asked what gave them the right to amend the US Constitution in a bill? I think you have a little problem with sections like a person shall have a right to a trial by a jury of their peers and that I DID NOT consider a military tribunal a "jury of my peers". Also the whole guilt by suspicion thing. Also, going back to "Right to revolution", I think you have a major problems with states rights - you know - the 9th and 10th amendments.

Then there is this whole "material support to terrorist organizations". I remember some humanitarian organization - food for starving children - and all their donors got in hot water because it turned out they were loosely toed to Hezbolla Hezbolla has a humanitarian wing. Anyway, that EXACT phrase was used.

Or what about if I loan my pickup to my neighbor to move some stuff to his storage locker and it turns out that he's a terrorist? - would I loose my citizenship for that?

I also said I was very uncomfortable with the whole suspicion / intelligence presumption of guilt. I asked if she was familiar with the leaked "fusion center" reports - the ones that said that if you voted for a third party candidate, you were likely to be a militia member intent on the overthrow of the US Gvmt. By those standards, 20-25 Million Americans are looking at being stripped of their citizenship because they didn't vote for someone with a "R" or a "D" by their name (or they voted for RP).

Told her that I would really like to read the bill and that I hoped it wasn't as bad as the media had made it out.

She said she would log everything.and asked if I was familiar with Thomas. Told her yes, and that I had searched for it earlier on the system, but didn't find it. She didn't know when it would get a number, if it would be a Senate or House bill or when it would be up.

Told her it seemed very big brotherish / 1984ish and that it kinda made my skin crawl...

I asked her if she had gotten many calls about the bill - - yes, she had received "calls", so I pushed a bit and asked if they were mostly positive or negative - She just said that she'd gotten "calls" about the bill again. Her inflection on the word "calls" told me 2 things:

1) She wasn't allowed to say.
2) This bills introduction to the world was about as warm and welcome as baby Satan's birth in the middle of a revival meeting...

-t

aGameOfThrones

05-06-2010, 04:57 PM

Would you still have your State's Citizenship? 'Cause U.S citizenship is sh1t anyways.

silentshout

05-06-2010, 05:37 PM

What would happen if you were stripped of citizenship, but were born here? Would you just be in Gitmo forever or in a refugee camp? Or could you start your own country on an island somewhere? (jk, sort of)

BuddyRey

05-06-2010, 05:50 PM

How do we stop it?

RM918

05-06-2010, 06:02 PM

We are fucked. Sounding better every day to renunciate your citizenship before they can take it away and get the hell out.

tremendoustie

05-06-2010, 06:14 PM

What the hell? I swear, life becomes more like a freakish nightmare by the day... sometimes by the hour.

The question of remedies appears to loom larger than ever before. The worst of it is that remedies within the more peaceable envelope appear to be slipping quickly from our reach. These crazy-men are going full throttle with their eyes, ears, and minds tightly shut.

Will we be forced to resort to drastic measures? I am not sure I can see how an election is going to help us now, even if we vote every incumbent out. Am I missing something?

As I say, there are peaceful measures other than elections. Jury nullification, civil disobedience, state nullification, agorism (especially alternate currencies and local economies), non-cooperation, peaceful secession, media, education, state and local lobbying, etc.

I think the federal government is pretty much beyond hope. But we're nowhere near peaceful measures being exhausted. I think these alternate measures deserve more attention, especially at this time.

phill4paul

05-06-2010, 06:15 PM

Sure. Saw this one coming a mile away. It was the next step up from the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act.

Deny Habeas Corpus to non-citizens then create non-citizens at will.

I really don't see why anyone is surprised anymore nor blind to the direction it is headed.

phill4paul

05-06-2010, 06:25 PM

As I say, there are peaceful measures other than elections. Jury nullification, civil disobedience, state nullification, agorism (especially alternate currencies and local economies), non-cooperation, peaceful secession, media, education, state and local lobbying, etc.

I think the federal government is pretty much beyond hope. But we're nowhere near peaceful measures being exhausted. I think these alternate measures deserve more attention, especially at this time.

Jury nullification: One needs to have a right for trail by jury for this to succeed.
Civil-disobedience: Rapidly becoming a way to deny anyone of the right to jury trial.
State nullification: If push comes to shove the federal government has been down that road and for all intents and purposes are quite pleased with the results.
agorism: Will soon be against the law. I believe within a short time there will be a media report of a town, county or state that will require permits for yard sales and a full accounting to appropriate revenue authorities.
non-cooperation: Will equal resisting the will of authorities.
peaceful seccession: Not gonna happen.
media: Beck?
education: No revenue enhancer left behind?

Tough road that does not bode well.

HOLLYWOOD

05-06-2010, 06:35 PM

LOL! The USUAL SUSPECTS: Joe Lieberman and the newest BIG GOVERNMENT puppet, Scott Brown.

I swear, Scott Brown is Manchurian Candidate... never have I've seen such a Dumb Ass politician voted to the US Senate... then again, Marionettes are pretty dumb

The False Dichotomy of the Duopoly contines to terrorize the people, liberties, and the US Constitution

tangent4ronpaul

05-06-2010, 06:43 PM

This deserves a re-post.... From an e-mail I got a while ago:

"I can't tell you how many people I've heard comment that they feel like they are in Germany right before WWII. Middle-class Republican soccer moms are worrying aloud about the "fascist" bent of the government. Scarcely a day goes by that I don't hear hear people comment that we need a revolution in this country. These aren't just the usual activists and fringe elements. These are the everyday people we usually call sheelpe. Americans are angry because they believe the government has turned against us and that out only recourse is going to be something big and ugly and probably violent (and those are quotes too)."

THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS PISSED OFF AND NOT GONG TO TAKE MUCH MORE OF THIS CRAP!

fj45lvr

05-06-2010, 06:45 PM

we know that Lieberman is a fan of fascist police states with no bill of rights (his zionist homeland)

fj45lvr

05-06-2010, 06:54 PM

THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS PISSED OFF AND NOT GONG TO TAKE MUCH MORE OF THIS CRAP!

just wait for the dollar crash>

Here's a recent firework new for this year from CHINA:

http://www.jakesfireworks.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Outta_Control_4bc6863f92c70.png

Anti Federalist

05-06-2010, 08:18 PM

phill4paul

05-06-2010, 08:22 PM

A little, low yield, 10 kiloton nuke, false flag, detonated in a populated area, will stampede the cattle right back into the corral.

Just a dirty would do it.

tremendoustie

05-06-2010, 08:59 PM

Jury nullification: One needs to have a right for trail by jury for this to succeed.

This is still respected in some cases. You can get a jury trial for a class A misdemeanor or a felony, where I'm from, or on appeal for a misdemeanor.

There are jury trials all the time. Show up with FIJA fliers.

Civil-disobedience: Rapidly becoming a way to deny anyone of the right to jury trial.

You shouldn't be so glib.

At 4:20 pm, pot is effectively legal in the town squares of Keene and Manchester, because of civil disobedience. Cameras are allowed into courtrooms because of civil disobedience. Permits are not required for events in Keene, because of civil disobedience. Low scale gambling is tolerated, along with unlicensed food vending.

The underground railroad, Egyptian independence, Indian independence, The crumbling of the Communist government in East Germany and in what's now the Czech Republic, the independence of the Baltic states from the USSR, Women's sufferage, the end of segregation, and more, were accomplished wholly are partly using civil disobedience.

State nullification: If push comes to shove the federal government has been down that road and for all intents and purposes are quite pleased with the results.

Actually, state nullification has already succeeded. Why do you think medical pot is legal so many places? It's still against federal law, you know.

agorism: Will soon be against the law. I believe within a short time there will be a media report of a town, county or state that will require permits for yard sales and a full accounting to appropriate revenue authorities.

So? They already have that in some places.

They can't stop you from trading with your friends, or operating off the books businesses.

Barter in silver -- protect you and your neighbors from dollar fluctuations, and take the legs out from their inflation tax scheme.

non-cooperation: Will equal resisting the will of authorities.

Yep, that's what non cooperating is. I'm not filling out the census they sent me, for example. Even if you eventually go along, make it difficult and costly for them.

peaceful seccession: Not gonna happen.

I highly doubt that if an entire state seceded peacefully, they would roll the tanks in and start shooting peaceful people. I don't think public opinion would tolerate it.

media: Beck?

No, Free talk live, wheels off liberty, NH free press, Free minds TV, capitol access, lewrockwell.com, ridley report, etc.

education: No revenue enhancer left behind?

Huh?

Tough road that does not bode well.

Actually, these are the methods that produce real results, historically. All pro-liberty reform has been preceded by efforts of this nature.

Cynicism is a lame excuse for doing less than one could.

osan

05-06-2010, 09:18 PM

As I say, there are peaceful measures other than elections. Jury nullification, civil disobedience, state nullification, agorism (especially alternate currencies and local economies), non-cooperation, peaceful secession, media, education, state and local lobbying, etc.

I think the federal government is pretty much beyond hope. But we're nowhere near peaceful measures being exhausted. I think these alternate measures deserve more attention, especially at this time.

You may be correct, and I certainly hope that you are. What I fear, however, are two things. First, that the feds will not respect state sovereignty in any event and will operate as they please, targeting individuals in piecemeal fashion to intimidate the rest. Second, that we the people will sit idly by when the time comes to choose sides. The feds may win by default. Is there a critical mass of resistance to this insane tyranny? I wish I knew the answer.

phill4paul

05-06-2010, 09:33 PM

Cynicism is a lame excuse for doing less than one could.

Call it what you will. I don't use it as a lame excuse and do as much as I can.

Remember this though.

There is a difference between being free in a police state and policing a free state.

Your belief equates to being free in a police state. Living and advocating as you choose and excepting the consequences bestowed upon you by them.

My belief is in policing a free state. Living and advocating as I choose and excepting the consequences of actions taken by me to bestow limitations on them.

osan

05-06-2010, 09:34 PM

We are fucked. Sounding better every day to renunciate your citizenship before they can take it away and get the hell out.

A poor option IMO. This is my home and I will be damned if I will roll over for these vermin. I am not so afraid of death that I will suffer any outrage just to remain. The people who are destroying this nation are evil and the worst thing we can do is to accommodate them in any way, even by default.

I also suspect that the levels of non-cooperation may be higher than our esteemed major media let on. They are, after all, an integral and fundamental part of the problem.

Stay and fight "them" in any way you can. Do it politely. Do it with a smile. Do it as a sneak and with great stealth. Do it any way you feel is right for you, just so long as you do it. I think it would be a terrible harm to the memories of all the people who fought and died for this nation to just turn tail and vacate. Besides, where would you go? Canada? Yick.

mikem317

05-06-2010, 09:36 PM

No due process. How uniquely 21st American of them.

I wonder how the Tea Party feels about Brown now...

osan

05-06-2010, 09:43 PM

A little, low yield, 10 kiloton nuke, false flag, detonated in a populated area, will stampede the cattle right back into the corral.

Unfortunately, you are probably 100% dead-on.

Anyone thinking that these bastards would be ignored or otherwise just lay down by the will of the people is fooling themselves.

I always thought Portland would be the perfect city for this. Large, but largely insignificant in the scheme of American things. It is almost the perfect sacrificial lamb for this kind of operation.

Danke

05-06-2010, 10:20 PM

There are people around here who have been very critical of the alleged kooky conspiracy folks who have consistently pointed out everything is a privilege as far as government is concerned.

If you don't believe citizenship is a privilege how can you possibly believe it can be taken away?

Yep. Not a U.S. Citizen. But a man of the land.

Would you still have your State's Citizenship? 'Cause U.S citizenship is sh1t anyways.

Let's hear it for the noob! Word is spreading and some are finally getting it.

dr. hfn

05-06-2010, 10:23 PM

motherfucker! Altmire is my Congressman!

tremendoustie

05-06-2010, 10:45 PM

Call it what you will. I don't use it as a lame excuse and do as much as I can.

Remember this though.

There is a difference between being free in a police state and policing a free state.

Your belief equates to being free in a police state. Living and advocating as you choose and excepting the consequences bestowed upon you by them.

My belief is in policing a free state. Living and advocating as I choose and excepting the consequences of actions taken by me to bestow limitations on them.

Not at all. I see civil disobedience, FIJA, agorism, etc, as primarily a way to reform society in general, and/or create more free societies, not mainly a way to live free personally. When you hold a camera, and catch a tyrant abusing an innocent person, then gain publicity for that video, you do far more damage to the police state than if you had tried to forcefully resist, and ended up as just another statistic.

qh4dotcom

05-06-2010, 10:56 PM

If your citizenship is taken away are you still required to pay taxes?

Danke

05-06-2010, 11:13 PM

If your citizenship is taken away are you still required to pay taxes?

Yes.

adolescents

05-07-2010, 04:50 AM

Scary stuff

eproxy100

05-07-2010, 05:54 AM

"supports open hostilities against the US" - does that include everybody here since we all speak out against the federal government?

moostraks

05-07-2010, 06:14 AM

"supports open hostilities against the US" - does that include everybody here since we all speak out against the federal government?

If they want to target you to make a point I would believe so. Sort of like the income tax they don't have to catch everyone to get general compliance but they will make life a living hell for those they target!

tangent4ronpaul

05-07-2010, 08:51 AM

Blimp for the morning crew....

tremendoustie

05-07-2010, 09:22 AM

YouTube - Martin Luther King Jr. on Malcolm X (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKIUMbi9Jk&feature=player_embedded)

pcosmar

05-07-2010, 09:42 AM

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/05/13/you-are-the-homegrown-terrorist-threat/

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/images/domestic-terrorist/120x60.png

Mini-Me

05-07-2010, 09:44 AM

"If you're talking about someone who has taken action -- it has to be proven action -- against the United States, it would expedite the ability to put them in a military tribunal," Mr. Altmire said.
LOL...it has to be proven action? Isn't that the PURPOSE OF A JURY TRIAL?!?

Baptist

05-07-2010, 09:49 AM

They can take their citizenship and shove it where the sun don't shine. I could care less if I'm an American citizen. What I do care about, though, is my rights getting violated. And that is what this bill is all about.

fj45lvr

05-07-2010, 10:29 AM

yeah, I am still perplexed by folks that honestly believe that the "system" just needs "reforming"....

they fail to see that the FEDS are in reality their most dire enemies ruling through all the administrative agencies uni-laterally making their own laws. The FEDS demonstrate that they are the worst kind of tyrants, thieves, and even murderer. It is so plain to see and yet the populace appears to be either totally blind, apathetic, or even supportive.

Instead of trying to fight and overthrow them head-to-head we need to totally ignore them and do everything you can to not give any shred of aid to them as the true enemy of our Liberty and prosperity.

Maybe someday some of the armed force of the state will actually fight the real people attacking us for our "freedoms".

tmosley

05-07-2010, 10:45 AM

Wow, all the more reason to leave this shit country. Let the pols have it. They'll all starve to death in a few years.

Linus

05-07-2010, 12:37 PM

Unfortunately, you are probably 100% dead-on.

Anyone thinking that these bastards would be ignored or otherwise just lay down by the will of the people is fooling themselves.

I always thought Portland would be the perfect city for this. Large, but largely insignificant in the scheme of American things. It is almost the perfect sacrificial lamb for this kind of operation.

Pfft. That could go for any American city.

In fact, I can think of two cities right off the top of my little head that would be much better targets, and even more inconsequential in the minds of most Americans. There might even be some overall positive feedback at this point.

But I'll never name names.

Aratus

05-07-2010, 12:48 PM

darkness at noon...
1984... the very lack
of our rights...

we must fight this!!!

Krugerrand

05-07-2010, 01:53 PM

Wow, all the more reason to leave this shit country. Let the pols have it. They'll all starve to death in a few years.

It's stuff like this that make me think that even dual citizenship can be exceedingly prudent for anybody who can easily get it.

tangent4ronpaul

05-08-2010, 11:29 AM

bump

Baptist

05-08-2010, 11:43 AM

Wow, all the more reason to leave this shit country. Let the pols have it. They'll all starve to death in a few years.

Wonder what the weather is like in Iran. The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

tangent4ronpaul

05-08-2010, 12:08 PM

The bill is up! H.R. 5237

The ONLY good thing I have to say about it is that it's only 2 pages long and not written in deceptive leagaleaze.

Rep. Charles Dent is the only co-sponsor (also from PA, so also violating his own states Constitution. Call his office and let him know what you think about this police state legislation. 202-225-6411 See post 14 in this thread if you want some talking points.

On top of this they are trying to ban gun purchases by people on terrorist watch lists. Yeah - Liberman again. Mr Police State Cheerleader. He sure is working overtime to bust our balls. Loose fundamental Constitutional rights on the basis of suspicion or because your name it too similar to someone else s. :rolleyes:

There are 400 thousand people are on the terrorist watch list. None have been charged with a crime. Guilty until proven innocent is the new norm in the land of the slaves. ZIG HEIL!

-t

Terrorist Expatriation Act (Introduced in House)

HR 5237 IH

111th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. R. 5237

To add joining a foreign terrorist organization or engaging in or supporting hostilities against the United States or its allies to the list of acts for which United States nationals would lose their nationality.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

May 6, 2010

Mr. ALTMIRE (for himself and Mr. DENT) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To add joining a foreign terrorist organization or engaging in or supporting hostilities against the United States or its allies to the list of acts for which United States nationals would lose their nationality.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Terrorist Expatriation Act'.

SEC. 2. LOSS OF NATIONALITY.

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481) is amended--

(1) in subsection (a)--

(A) in each of paragraphs (1) through (6), by striking `or' at the end;

(B) in paragraph (7), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; or'; and

(C) by adding at the end the following:

`(8)(A) providing material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization;

`(B) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States; or

`(C) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against any country or armed force that is--

`(i) directly engaged along with the United States in hostilities engaged in by the United States; or

`(ii) providing direct operational support to the United States in hostilities engaged in by the United States.'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

`(c) For purposes of this section--

`(1) the term `foreign terrorist organization' means an organization so designated by the Secretary pursuant to section 219(a);

`(2) the term `hostilities' means any conflict subject to the laws of war; and

`(3) the term `material support or resources' has the meaning given the term in section 2339A of title 18, United States Code.'.

tangent4ronpaul

05-08-2010, 12:48 PM

In a previous post I had mentioned a humanitarian organization (feeding starving kids) that was accused of providing material support to a terrorist organization, as were all their donors.

Some years ago, one of my roommates was a CIA case officer. One day he brought home a unclassified, but internal book. It was a directory of terrorist organizations. It was the size of a telephone directory of a major metropolitan area. There were some surprises in there. For example, did you know that the federal government considers Greenpeace a terrorist organization?

I didn't look it up when I had access to it, but I would be surprised if MSF (Doctors Without Boarders) was not considered a terrorist organization. They did, after all, illegally parachute some doctors into Nicaragua to give medical aid to the rebels when we were on the other side of that conflict. They also routinely provide medical aid in war zones and never take sides.

So - feeding starving kids, an environmental group, humanitarian medical aid - any of these sound like something you or your neighbor might donate to? Remember the phrase "material support to terrorist organizations". This is VERY DANGEROUS LEGISLATION!

Liebermans other recent wet dream is also very dangerous. If it passes, all they have to do is put everyone on the terrorism watch list and they have effectively banned guns. Remember, the lists are secret. Why you got on it, is secret. Getting of it is basically impossible.

Wake up and smell the stench of the police state!

-t