Rachel Maddow explains divide between libertarians and paleo-conservatives

[Brian4Liberty]

Anyone unfortunate enough to catch any of Rachel Maddow today? She explained how paleo-conservative Republicans want to ignore the Constitution when investigating "terrorists". She also spoke about the libertarian conservatives who still like the Constitution.

For even more fun, she also identified the main representatives of these two forms of conservatives:

libertarians - you are represented by Glenn Beck. :p
paleo-conservatives - you are represented by John McCain. :eek:

She was correct about the Constitutional issues, but her characterization of "conservatives" was quite a jumbled mess of smarmy partisan propaganda.

YouTube - Rachel Maddow- Conservatives assert right to remain ridiculous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3-xNNmLVu0)

The leftists have also gone out of their way today to crow about the success of the Obama Administration in catching the suspect in the NY bombing attempt. Gee, since when is someone from the Administration out there on the streets doing actual detective work? And they are proud of the fact that the bomb didn't go off? What did they have to do with that? They didn't prevent anything.

[RSLudlum]

NM

[Don't Tread on Mike]

another good piece of Maddow. It's funny how Ron Paul was broght up when she said Glen BEck.

[BuddyRey]

Wow! I think both groups would be insulted at the ideological leaders Maddow attributed to our movements. Beck is just another talking head to me, and John McCain isn't conservative in any sense of the term, paleo or otherwise!

[RSLudlum]

Wow! I think both groups would be insulted at the ideological leaders Maddow attributed to our movements. Beck is just another talking head to me, and John McCain isn't conservative in any sense of the term, paleo or otherwise!

She's trying to keep it within her regular viewers' frame of mind. And then possibly capitalize on displaying any 'fission' in the republican party. But the best aspect of the segment was the guy from the Nation pointing out that RP is for civil liberties and against the wars/empire while also for economic freedom. Those points could draw many more away from the dem side also.

[YumYum]

Labels mean nothing. "Rightist", "Leftist" are meaningless cliches. Why do people on this forum hate socialist when it is a scientific fact that the happiest people on Earth are the people of Denmark and Norway, which happens to be socialist countries.

What Ron Paul represents is honesty; something politicians don't have. Ron Paul encourages and welcomes debate, while not attacking the individual.

I prefer an honest Liberal over a lying Conservative. Noam Chomsky is an awesome example.

[sofia]

McCain is a Neo-Con

Paul is a paleo-con

A libertarian is a paleo-con who supports cultural degradation, killing babies and "gay rights"

[itshappening]

When Lew Rockwell see's this he will have to think of a new label if McCain is "paleo" !

Paleo-con has always been the antithesis to neo-con i.e Old right, at least in my head

[catdd]

Terrible piece of filthy MSM propaganda.

John McCain is a pro war, pro Israel, NEO-con!!!

[itshappening]

bomb, bomb bomb Iran

[Stary Hickory]

Maddow is a cow,

Paleoconservatives detest John McCain. And I know libertarians do not embrace Beck as any kind of leader in the movement. Beck is still a recovering Neocon so he is likely to say some pretty incosistent stuff.

[cmasslibertarian]

A libertarian is a paleo-con who supports cultural degradation, killing babies and "gay rights"

Well I do love all those things.

[Dreamofunity]

Well I do love all those things.

Sign me up.

[Travlyr]

S.3081: Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

The “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010,” introduced by Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman on Thursday with little fanfare, “sets out a comprehensive policy for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected enemy belligerents who are believed to have engaged in hostilities against the United States by requiring these individuals to be held in military custody, interrogated for their intelligence value and not provided with a Miranda warning,”

The bill does not distinguish between U.S. citizens and non-citizens, and states that “suspected belligerents” who are “considered a “high-value detainee” shall not be provided with a Miranda warning.”

More at: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=234992

[johnrocks]

Paleo cons are libertarians closest political allies, I haven't watched the video yet but I'm not going to knock our closest "kin", some;like Maddox; want nothing but to keep us as fractured and unorganized as possible at the very time we need to come together as a voting bloc like neo cons and social cons have!

[lester1/2jr]

you aren't going to see muslims, libertarians or paleo cons outside of buchanan (who is there because of his machevllian expertise on the DC power struggle stuff, not his ideas) on any of these shows because they are terrified any of the three will talk about israel

[RM918]

John Motherfucking McCain is a Paleocon? Where the hell did she get this information? From a bum living out of the dumpster behind a Denny's?

[ChaosControl]

He is such an idiot.
He confused paleocons with neocons? And thought of beck as a libertarian?

Well the left nuts gobble that crap up, so now that one of their cheerleaders said it, they'll embrace the concept.

[amy31416]

She's built up trust by being honest and critical about some things like Obama signing on to various Bush positions, like indefinite detention, and she is now spending that on smearing libertarians and paleoconservatives, probably in order to prevent some lefties from contemplating defecting to the libertarian platform. And given the huge disappointments they keep getting from Obama, that is a very real possibility.

Seriously? McCain is a paleocon--absolutely asinine.

[specsaregood]

Seriously? McCain is a paleocon--absolutely asinine.

Clearly she thought "paleo" was short for: old and a member of the undead.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/john_mccain_do_not_struggle_young_one.jpg

[Elwar]

Paleo conservatives want to follow the constitution.

Libertarians would like to get to the point where we follow the constitution...then work to dismantle the non-libertarian parts one by one.

http://www.theronpaulteaparty.com/e107_images/banners/banner.jpg (http://www.TheRonPaulTeaParty.com)

[reardenstone]

The State-Media Dominion has recognized libertarians as a valid threat so they now seek to discredit them as an option for classical liberals by falsely associating
libertarians with Glenn Beck.


Please flame that vid post now and let people know we don't want Beck in his current state of mind.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

A libertarian is a paleo-con who supports cultural degradation, killing babies and "gay rights"

Cultural degradation? What the fuck is that? Jesus, could you sound any more like a nationalist?

Killing babies, eh? Never heard of Libertarians for Life (http://www.l4l.org/) then. Nice broad brush you painted with.

"Gay Rights"? What exactly are "gay rights"? I thought we all had unlimited inalienable rights as affirmed by the 9th Amendment to the US Constitution.

[paulitics]

Libertarian is going to become another dirty word, like conspiracy theorist. In the past, one could talk about corruption without the brain dead on the other side dismissing everything you say. The same thing will happen with discussing he founding fathers, or libertarain philosophy. The image that will pop up in people's minds will be Glenn Beck, and that is not a good thing.

The problem for the elite though, is we have the internet, where these tactics lose their effect on those who seek information.

But I agree with those who are saying we need to distance ourselves from Glenn Beck, until the day he really extends his hand out to the disenfranchised left, instead of just demonizing them.

[Brian4Liberty]

S.3081: Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

The “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010,” introduced by Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman on Thursday with little fanfare, “sets out a comprehensive policy for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected enemy belligerents who are believed to have engaged in hostilities against the United States by requiring these individuals to be held in military custody, interrogated for their intelligence value and not provided with a Miranda warning,”

The bill does not distinguish between U.S. citizens and non-citizens, and states that “suspected belligerents” who are “considered a “high-value detainee” shall not be provided with a Miranda warning.”

More at: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=234992

I think she did mention that, and brought up Lieberman too.

She seemed to be trying to mix the terms neo-conservative and paleo-conservative. Very likely in an attempt to smear paleos in the eyes of those who don't follow the definitions closely. Mislead, divide, distract.

[silentshout]

Yeah,that's pretty lame. It should be obvious to anyone who knows what a libertarian is that Glenn Beck is the furthet thing from one. Of course, most people, as a PP mentioned, just think libertarians are conspiracy nuts. And yes, I do think the left has a vested interest in demonizing them so lefties (who aren't full-on statist types, the civil libertarian types) won't defect. It's pretty asinine.

[ctiger2]

Labels mean nothing. "Rightist", "Leftist" are meaningless cliches. Why do people on this forum hate socialist when it is a scientific fact that the happiest people on Earth are the people of Denmark and Norway, which happens to be socialist countries.

Really? You'd think countries with the happiest people on earth wouldn't kill themselves.

http://fathersforlife.org/images/who_suicide_rates.gif

[Brian4Liberty]

Really? You'd think countries with the happiest people on earth wouldn't kill themselves.


Lol! Those studies are socialist propaganda. "Look how great socialism is!" :rolleyes:

Part of their "happiness" quotient is how often people are disappointed. Scandinavians are notorious skeptics and pessimists, therefore they report that they are rarely disappointed. They expect bad things. The study equates that with happiness.

[Travlyr]

I think she did mention that, and brought up Lieberman too.

Yes, Rachel did mention the Miranda warning, but she did not seem to understand or communicate why the Miranda warning was important.

This is why: S.3081: The “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010,” introduced by Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=234992

[erowe1]

Labels mean nothing [?]. "Rightist", "Leftist" are meaningless cliches. Why do people on this forum hate socialist when it is a scientific fact that the happiest people on Earth are the people of Denmark and Norway, which happens to be socialist countries.

What Ron Paul represents is honesty; something politicians don't have. Ron Paul encourages and welcomes debate, while not attacking the individual.

I prefer an honest Liberal over a lying Conservative. Noam Chomsky is an awesome example.

The following are all labels:
1) the word "labels"
2) the phrase "meaningless cliche"
3) the phrase "scientific fact"
4) the phrase "the happiest people on Earth"
5) the phrase "the people of Denmark and Norway"
6) the word "politicians"
7) the phrase "honest liberal"

The kind of rigid opposition to any and every form of collectivism that some libertarians have is a self-defeating attempt to do away with something so natural to human interaction with world and human language that nobody could ever possibly live out that kind of pure individualism in their thinking and speech.

[Travlyr]

The following are all labels:
1) the word "labels"
2) the phrase "meaningless cliche"
3) the phrase "scientific fact"
4) the phrase "the happiest people on Earth"
5) the phrase "the people of Denmark and Norway"
6) the word "politicians"
7) the phrase "honest liberal"

The kind of rigid opposition to any and every form of collectivism that some libertarians have is a self-defeating attempt to do away with something so natural to human interaction with world and human language that nobody could ever possibly live out that kind of pure individualism in their thinking and speech.

Clearly defined labels have meaning, but "Right", "Left", "Conservative", "Liberal", "Moderate", "Libertarians", "Neo-conservative", "Paleo-conservative", "happiest people on Earth" are examples of not clearly defined labels and are therefore meaningless cliches.