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View Full Version : Self-Identification of Race/Gender on Job Applications?




malkusm
05-01-2010, 03:19 PM
I'd like to hear the forum's opinion on this - when you apply for jobs, do you typically refuse to answer the questions, or do you comply? Have you had success with one or the other, and is it advantageous to securing a job for someone to answer or not answer? Do you have any moral/philosophical qualms with self-identifying?

I typically answer the questions, but just wanted to see what the discussion yielded.

Warrior_of_Freedom
05-01-2010, 03:24 PM
i cross out white and put caucasian

peacepotpaul
05-01-2010, 04:06 PM
I'd like to hear the forum's opinion on this - when you apply for jobs, do you typically refuse to answer the questions, or do you comply? Have you had success with one or the other, and is it advantageous to securing a job for someone to answer or not answer? Do you have any moral/philosophical qualms with self-identifying?

I typically answer the questions, but just wanted to see what the discussion yielded.

it doesn't matter, they'll see you in an interview.

whether you answer only shows how confident and upfront you are for what they'll know later anyway.

at least if you let them reject you earlier, you save each other the meeting time. I'd much rather let the little things that bother a person come out and get over with.

malkusm
05-01-2010, 04:13 PM
it doesn't matter, they'll see you in an interview.

whether you answer only shows how confident and upfront you are for what they'll know later anyway.

at least if you let them reject you earlier, you save each other the meeting time. I'd much rather let the little things that bother a person come out and get over with.

This is pretty much how I've approached it, which is why I list the info voluntarily.

I'm interested to see if others have strong conflicting viewpoints (typically the case around here).

Free Moral Agent
05-01-2010, 04:41 PM
I never answer that question and I wouldn't apply for a job that required it. I've also been hired for a job in which I refused to answer that question. In other words, the employer knew what really mattered.

When I was younger, I used to answer that question thinking that even though it states that its voluntary, that it would still inadvertently affect my chances. F them, if it does affect my chances then I don't want to work for your company anyways.

peacepotpaul
05-01-2010, 05:05 PM
This is pretty much how I've approached it, which is why I list the info voluntarily.

I'm interested to see if others have strong conflicting viewpoints (typically the case around here).

i am far from a 'principled' person when it comes to applying for a job, in business, you do what works and you want people to be happy. I wouldnt lie, but I'd do what makes the most sense.

peacepotpaul
05-01-2010, 05:06 PM
I never answer that question and I wouldn't apply for a job that required it. I've also been hired for a job in which I refused to answer that question. In other words, the employer knew what really mattered.

When I was younger, I used to answer that question thinking that even though it states that its voluntary, that it would still inadvertently affect my chances. F them, if it does affect my chances then I don't want to work for them anyways.

what industry do you work in?

Icymudpuppy
05-01-2010, 05:40 PM
I am an employer. I don't ask any race questions.

I do ask questions like...

Can you lift 100 lbs?

Can you crawl through an 18" high opening?

Can you climb a 35' ladder?

How many 2'x3' panels can you make from one 4'x8' sheet of plywood (ignore width of saw blade), and how much wastage will there be?

Are you afraid of the dark?

Are you afraid of enclosed spaces?

Are you afraid of heights?

Are you afraid of wild animals?

Do you know how to handle a firearm?

Are you averse to euthanasia?

Can you drive a manual transmission?

Are you afraid of rotting flesh?

Can you tolerate extremely bad smells?

Etc, etc...

lynnf
05-01-2010, 06:00 PM
This is pretty much how I've approached it, which is why I list the info voluntarily.

I'm interested to see if others have strong conflicting viewpoints (typically the case around here).

I do have a strong viewpoint that conflicts with most of what I've read in the thread.

don't give them any reason to reject you -- that means don't volunteer any information unless it is to your advantage.

so, if you're a "minority", volunteer it. if not, don't.

lynn

Old Ducker
05-01-2010, 06:07 PM
I am an employer. I don't ask any race questions.

I do ask questions like...

Can you lift 100 lbs?

Can you crawl through an 18" high opening?

Can you climb a 35' ladder?

How many 2'x3' panels can you make from one 4'x8' sheet of plywood (ignore width of saw blade), and how much wastage will there be?

Are you afraid of the dark?

Are you afraid of enclosed spaces?

Are you afraid of heights?

Are you afraid of wild animals?

Do you know how to handle a firearm?

Are you averse to euthanasia?

Can you drive a manual transmission?

Are you afraid of rotting flesh?

Can you tolerate extremely bad smells?

Etc, etc...

Sounds like an interesting job.

peacepotpaul
05-01-2010, 06:20 PM
I do have a strong viewpoint that conflicts with most of what I've read in the thread.

don't give them any reason to reject you -- that means don't volunteer any information unless it is to your advantage.

so, if you're a "minority", volunteer it. if not, don't.

lynn

most jobs will interview you face to face, if your rejection excuse can't be hidden in an interview, might as well tell them right away.

Zippyjuan
05-01-2010, 08:00 PM
It has been a long time since I had to fill out a job application but I thought they could not ask race on them.

ChaosControl
05-01-2010, 08:05 PM
Human/Dude

I don't care. An employer can ask whatever the heck they want as far as I'm concerned.

malkusm
05-01-2010, 08:07 PM
It has been a long time since I had to fill out a job application but I thought they could not ask race on them.

At the end of pretty much every job application now, there is a disclaimer stating that the following questions are for information only for use under the Equal Employment Act (might be called something else) and that response to them is optional. Then there are spaces for race/ethnicity and gender.

malkusm
05-01-2010, 08:08 PM
Human/Dude

I don't care. An employer can ask whatever the heck they want as far as I'm concerned.

I don't mind the employer asking - I do mind the government mandating them to ask the question, even with such a disclaimer.

malkusm
05-01-2010, 08:11 PM
I do have a strong viewpoint that conflicts with most of what I've read in the thread.

don't give them any reason to reject you -- that means don't volunteer any information unless it is to your advantage.

so, if you're a "minority", volunteer it. if not, don't.

lynn

I've thought about this too. There's no way to tell if answering is better than not answering, since the answers are held in confidentiality between the applicant and employer. It very well might be that success rates for minority applicants who answer the questions are higher than the general population - after all, the stated goals of "equal opportunity" laws are to increase the opportunities for under-represented populations in various career fields. There's obviously an incentive to "equalize."

virgil47
05-01-2010, 09:58 PM
The answers only appear to matter if you are hired for the job. The gov. doesn't track applications by race or sex to my knowledge.

MelissaWV
05-02-2010, 03:29 PM
I don't answer the questions. Gender is irrelevant to my profession, and is apparent to both the person who handed me the form and any persons who will be interacting with me. Ethnicity is irrelevant to my profession, and is not apparent to most people, and that's fine by me. I want to be hired because of my qualifications and interest in the position, not because I happen to be some kind of minority :)

TheBlackPeterSchiff
05-02-2010, 03:31 PM
I never ever fill that portion out.

And I've never had a problem getting a job.

WaltM
05-02-2010, 03:47 PM
I don't answer the questions. Gender is irrelevant to my profession, and is apparent to both the person who handed me the form and any persons who will be interacting with me. Ethnicity is irrelevant to my profession, and is not apparent to most people, and that's fine by me. I want to be hired because of my qualifications and interest in the position, not because I happen to be some kind of minority :)

I want to be hired to sit on my ass and do nothing. I guess I should tell them that when they hand me an application "Hey, stick it up your ass, I'm not here to answer your questions, by the way, I prefer cash, so I aint givin you my SSN"

Imaginos
05-02-2010, 03:53 PM
I am an employer. I don't ask any race questions.

That's the way it should be.
Cheers.

MelissaWV
05-02-2010, 04:13 PM
I want to be hired to sit on my ass and do nothing. I guess I should tell them that when they hand me an application "Hey, stick it up your ass, I'm not here to answer your questions, by the way, I prefer cash, so I aint givin you my SSN"

I have no idea what your response has to do with my post.

WaltM
05-02-2010, 04:22 PM
I have no idea what your response has to do with my post.

what you want isn't always what you get, and you can be smart and private all you want, but not everybody cares what you want, nor are they always rational.

MelissaWV
05-02-2010, 04:53 PM
what you want isn't always what you get, and you can be smart and private all you want, but not everybody cares what you want, nor are they always rational.

I do get what I want, and if that business is not going to provide something I want badly enough to make it a criteria for myself, then they're not the right business to work with. The forms always state they are voluntary.

I don't work for a firm that doesn't provide skills tests, and if they were to push this false "diversity" claptrap on me without even bothering to ensure that their workers were suited to the task at hand... then they're going down the tubes soon enough, and the relationship can't be saved.

Why would you want to work with irrational people?

lynnf
05-02-2010, 05:18 PM
I've thought about this too. There's no way to tell if answering is better than not answering, since the answers are held in confidentiality between the applicant and employer. It very well might be that success rates for minority applicants who answer the questions are higher than the general population - after all, the stated goals of "equal opportunity" laws are to increase the opportunities for under-represented populations in various career fields. There's obviously an incentive to "equalize."

you buy that confidentiality BS?

hey, the Census Bureau swears up and down they can't share the information and it's safe, yet census information was used to round up the Japanese to send them to Manzinar. Same for Native Americans. And, I'm told, for other occasions, too.

yes, it's supposed to be confidential. go ahead and trust them if you want to.

I won't.

lynn

0zzy
05-02-2010, 05:26 PM
I am an employer. I don't ask any race questions.

I do ask questions like...

Can you lift 100 lbs?

Can you crawl through an 18" high opening?

Can you climb a 35' ladder?

How many 2'x3' panels can you make from one 4'x8' sheet of plywood (ignore width of saw blade), and how much wastage will there be?

Are you afraid of the dark?

Are you afraid of enclosed spaces?

Are you afraid of heights?

Are you afraid of wild animals?

Do you know how to handle a firearm?

Are you averse to euthanasia?

Can you drive a manual transmission?

Are you afraid of rotting flesh?

Can you tolerate extremely bad smells?

Etc, etc...

what the hell kind of job you offering there boss? :) now im interested.

Icymudpuppy
05-02-2010, 10:25 PM
what the hell kind of job you offering there boss? :) now im interested.

http://www.aallanimalcontrol.com/franchise.cfm

WaltM
05-02-2010, 11:03 PM
Why would you want to work with irrational people?

that's my point, i'd rather be honest and upfront about everything I can, and not waste anybody's time, if they're irrational people that'll care about details, better to know sooner than later.