Nat'l Day of Prayer unConstitutional?

[peacepotpaul]

Amazing how you can stretch rhetoric.

YouTube - National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional (Part 1 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcHPtmoXrJo)

YouTube - National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional (Part 2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UjCOmVXUBE)

Did this guy just say :
a) it's good to worry about slippery slope possibilities
b) George Washington violated the Constitution

[nate895]

Via the decision's reasoning, the Constitution itself is unconstitutional because it recognizes Sunday as the day of rest.

[peacepotpaul]

Via the decision's reasoning, the Constitution itself is unconstitutional because it recognizes Sunday as the day of rest.

resting is a religious practice?

[nate895]

resting is a religious practice?

While resting isn't religious in and of itself, it can't be avoided that the founders specifically chose Sunday, and declared the Constitution to have been "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names."

It would seem both establish a Christian religion, albeit generic Christianity. No once can really doubt which Lord they are talking about in context.

[peacepotpaul]

While resting isn't religious in and of itself, it can't be avoided that the founders specifically chose Sunday


they'd have to either go with tradition or invent a new day.



, and declared the Constitution to have been "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names."

It would seem both establish a Christian religion, albeit generic Christianity. No once can really doubt which Lord they are talking about in context.

Year of our lord, or AD for short, was the only way years were measured (and probably still is) that is common enough for all English speakers to understand.

so to answer your question, NO, it's NOT an establishment, at least not based on the video I posted, since both rest, day of rest per week, and common era dating, have secular purposes and are no exclusively religious language, much less events.

It'd be no more sensible to say that using the words Thursday, Saturday are establishments to Thor and Saturn.

[nate895]

they'd have to either go with tradition or invent a new day.



Year of our lord, or AD for short, was the only way years were measured (and probably still is) that is common enough for all English speakers to understand.

so to answer your question, NO, it's NOT an establishment, at least not based on the video I posted, since both rest, day of rest per week, and common era dating, have secular purposes and are no exclusively religious language, much less events.

It can't be avoided that the founders specifically chose say "Year of Our Lord," when they could have simply avoided the whole issue of Lordship by simply stating "the year 1787," or, as is also common in dating methods of the time, "in the eleventh year of our independence." Both were common methods at the time, even among die-hard Christians, and both avoid the issue of religion, but the founders specifically chose the one that recognizes Christ as "Our Lord."

[peacepotpaul]

It can't be avoided that the founders specifically chose say "Year of Our Lord," when they could have simply avoided the whole issue of Lordship by simply stating "the year 1787,"


The fact they spelled out the numbers meant they wanted to drag it out and be specific. There's only a few ways to say "year 1787" they chose the longest one I can think of.




or, as is also common in dating methods of the time, "in the eleventh year of our independence." Both were common methods at the time, even among die-hard Christians, and both avoid the issue of religion, but the founders specifically chose the one that recognizes Christ as "Our Lord."

I don't believe using "year of our lord" is invoking religion, just like I don't see how "Saturday" is invoking Saturn.

Besides, do you dispute that the use of "year of our lord" has secular and non-Christian purposes?

[nate895]

The fact they spelled out the numbers meant they wanted to drag it out and be specific. There's only a few ways to say "year 1787" they chose the longest one I can think of.




I don't believe using "year of our lord" is invoking religion, just like I don't see how "Saturday" is invoking Saturn.

Besides, do you dispute that the use of "year of our lord" has secular and non-Christian purposes?

Absolutely I dispute it in the context. The only secular uses I can think of would be use in a historical context to portray the worldview of the people at the time. In the context of the Constitution, it is specifically having people subscribe to a statement that clearly implies Christ's Lordship.

[peacepotpaul]

Absolutely I dispute it in the context. The only secular uses I can think of would be use in a historical context to portray the worldview of the people at the time. In the context of the Constitution, it is specifically having people subscribe to a statement that clearly implies Christ's Lordship.

yes, it was certainly the view of them at the time, I don't dispute that.

"clearly implies"? oxymoron?

If I could find you an alternative naming of week's days they chose not to use, you'd concede they were giving establishment to Thor on Thursday?

Or are you saying that the use of the words AD, Anno Domini, Year of Our Lord is a religious act?

[nate895]

yes, it was certainly the view of them at the time, I don't dispute that.

"clearly implies"? oxymoron?

If I could find you an alternative naming of week's days they chose not to use, you'd concede they were giving establishment to Thor on Thursday?

Or are you saying that the use of the words AD, Anno Domini, Year of Our Lord is a religious act?

AD would be more secular in nature because it doesn't spell it out. I'm talking about actually spelling out "Year of Our Lord" or "Anno Domini."

As for your Thursday and Thor, that relationship had long since faded even though the day retained the name. Nobody thinks "Thor" when here Thursday, unless you're into that sort of thing. Most people at the time would have understood what was meant by "Year of Our Lord" at the forefront of their minds, not some old tradition that only scholars and trivia fans remember.

[peacepotpaul]

AD would be more secular in nature because it doesn't spell it out. I'm talking about actually spelling out "Year of Our Lord" or "Anno Domini."


But they spelled out the numbers instead of using arabic numerals. which tells you they probably intended to write as many letters as possible to convey even the simplest detail.




As for your Thursday and Thor, that relationship had long since faded even though the day retained the name. Nobody thinks "Thor" when here Thursday, unless you're into that sort of thing.


So how long does it take before it's accepted as faded?
Must a person be Christian to use AD, Year of Our Lord or "In God we Trust"?



Most people at the time would have understood what was meant by "Year of Our Lord" at the forefront of their minds, not some old tradition that only scholars and trivia fans remember.

which is all the more reason it's not a religious establishment, but common usage.

[BlackTerrel]

resting is a religious practice?

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

[peacepotpaul]

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

and?