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FrankRep
04-30-2010, 03:41 PM
Senators Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), and Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) unveiled their own proposal for reforming federal immigration policies and procedures by Joe Wolverton II


Democrats' Answer to Illegal Immigration is National ID (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/immigration/3452-reid-schumer-and-menendez-answer-to-illegal-immigration-is-national-id-card)


Joe Wolverton, II | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
Friday, 30 April 2010


In the days that have followed the enactment by Arizona Governor Jan Brewer of the Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act (http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf), repercussions have sounded throughout the nation and the world. Legislators (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/24/eveningnews/main6429215.shtml) and larks (http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicanisima/2010/04/shakira-is-the-latest-to-protest-arizonas-immigration-law.html) have decried the decision by the people of the Grand Canyon State and their elected representatives to proactively enforce existing federal immigration laws, thus beginning the burdensome process of retarding the unlawful invasion of the United States from across the porous southern border. Lawsuits and lamentations (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042900744.html) dog the new law set to go into effect by the first of August.

Giving new meaning to the saying “a day late and a dollar short,” on April 29, Senators Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), and Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) unveiled their own proposal for reforming federal immigration policies and procedures (http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/30715212/download?commit=Download+Now&secret_password=). The 26-page document is less a proposed bill than a very broad outline for changes the senators and members of their party will push for in Congress.

Of course, if President Obama has any say on the matter, any effort to overhaul current immigration policies will have to wait until after the November elections (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_immigration_politics). “I’ve been working Congress pretty hard. So I know, there may not be an appetite immediately to dive into another controversial issue,” the President told reporters aboard Air Force One. This is the surest signal to House and Senate Democrats that the immigration issue should be put on the legislative back burner pending the outcome of the mid-term elections.

The Reid-Schumer-Menendez memo, entitled the “Conceptual Proposal for Immigration Reform,” sets out eight “benchmarks” that they assert must be addressed before any significant alterations to the status of those currently illegally present in the United States can be made.

The first of these eight points calls for an increase in the number of border patrol agents. This mandate is at odds with the assessment pronounced by Homeland Security boss, Janet Napolitano (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/04/28/20100428arizona-immigration-law-impact.html) (herself a former governor of Arizona) that, “the borders are as secure as ever,” due in part to “the highest level of staffing in the Border Patrol's 85-year history.” It is indubitably this sort of internecine contradiction that forced Arizona’s hand in the first place.

The second point in the Democratic plan calls for an increase in the number of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents combating smuggling operations along the border with Mexico. Again, why are Reid and his crew only just now offering these tactics when hundreds of thousands of illegals are smuggled every year into Arizona across the desert border with Mexico? On April 15 of this year, for example, a combined force of federal agents and local police broke up an elaborate human smuggling organization that over the last decade has transported over 80,000 illegals into Arizona, using Phoenix as their primary hub. Is it any wonder that Arizona (and perhaps soon its fellow border states) felt compelled to defend itself against the tidal waves of illegals that crash into their shores day after day?

The third proposal announced by the Senate Democrats calls for the bolstering of the resources afforded ICE to prevent the hiring of illegals by American companies. While targeting commercial outfits that are unlawfully hiring those without the right to work in America is necessary to drying up the oasis from which so many of these desert invaders are drinking, the fact is that according to statistics published in a recent UCLA study (http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/issr/csup/uploaded_files/Natl_DayLabor-On_the_Corner1.pdf), 49 percent of illegals working in the United States are employed by individual homeowners, not corporations. If verifiable, this data would indicate that the effort to eradicate the illegal immigrant workforce, pressure must be applied on the individual alien, not just on businesses.

The fourth of the eight proposals is perhaps the most pernicious. The proposition has a high propensity for overreaching in direct proportion to its vagueness. The exact wording of the suggestion calls for “improved technology” that will assist ICE in determining eligibility for work in the U.S. While that sounds innocuous enough, later in the document, under the section entitled, “Ending Illegal Employment Through Biometric Employment Verification,” Reid, et al, set forth their chilling scheme to require all Americans to carry a 21st Century version of the Social Security Card. The national identification card will be embedded with biometric data detectable by federal agents. Specifically, the Reid plan will mandate that within 18 months of the passage of immigration reform legislation, every American worker carry the “fraud-resistant, tamper-resistant, wear resistant, and machine-readable social security cards containing a photograph and an electronically coded micro-processing chip which possesses a unique biometric identifier for the authorized card-bearer.”

As if that isn’t enough to freeze the blood of any ally of freedom and our constitutional republic, the Senate sponsors insist that the new identification card will contain the following information, as well: “(1) biometric identifiers, in the form of templates, that definitively tie the individual user to the identity credential; (2) electronic authentication capability; (3) ability to verify the individual locally without requiring every employer to access a biometric database; (4) offline verification capability (eliminating the need for 24-hour, 7-days-per-week online databases); (5) security features that protect the information stored on the card; (6) privacy protections that allow the user to control who is able to access the data on the card; (7) compliance with authentication and biometric standards recognized by domestic and international standards organizations.” Read it and weep, lovers of liberty!

The fifth, sixth, and seventh of the ideas published by the Senators on Thursday seem to restate the previous four but in more diffuse language. The bottom line is the increase in money and manpower for ICE and the Border Patrol. The goal is the turning off of the tap that daily pours drugs, humans, and crime across the border with Mexico. Each of these three points is so broad and so ill-defined (purposely) that when the fine points are drawn there is sure to be plenty of the tint of totalitarianism that is the hallmark of the present Potomac plutocracy.

The final proposal calls for the expediting of deportation proceedings in the federal immigration courts. Currently, the dockets are bulging; judges are overwhelmed; and forum shopping is pervasive, with immigrants filing petitions in states rumored to be more likely to approve them. Recent reports (http://peacesecurity.suite101.com/article.cfm/crisis-in-us-immigration-courts--a-report) indicate that a perfect storm of federal ineptitude and in fighting between the Department of Homeland Security and the Justice Department menaces the entire system and prevents justice from truly being served.

The debate over Arizona’s new law and the implications thereof will continue, Congressional “appetites” notwithstanding. While every law must be circumspectly scrutinized for any defects and violations of the principles of personal liberty and good government, the new law in Arizona seems to be working (http://www.examiner.com/x-15870-Populist-Examiner~y2010m4d29-Illegal-immigrants-leaving-Arizona-over-new-law), even though not yet in effect. While the latest congressional recommendations contain a few good ideas that are too little, too late, and a few (national i.d. card, for one) that are tyrannical and terrifying and must be vigorously opposed.


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/immigration/3452-reid-schumer-and-menendez-answer-to-illegal-immigration-is-national-id-card

constituent
04-30-2010, 03:42 PM
ok... and the JBS' answer is what, exactly?

Live_Free_Or_Die
04-30-2010, 03:45 PM
Call me psychic

YouTube - Government Attacks Liberty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIxCLkE2SIQ)

Vessol
04-30-2010, 03:46 PM
Lol, and only the Democrats are behind this :rolleyes:

angelatc
04-30-2010, 03:50 PM
That's just so perfect. So the illegal aliens will still be the only people without papers, and we'll be racists for insisting they should have them.

Vessol
04-30-2010, 03:52 PM
That's just so perfect. So the illegal aliens will still be the only people without papers, and we'll be racists for insisting they should have them.

Do you think all legal immigrants should be the only ones required to have IDs? And why should illegal immigrants even have IDs? Shouldn't they be being deported..

MelissaWV
04-30-2010, 03:56 PM
That's just so perfect. So the illegal aliens will still be the only people without papers, and we'll be racists for insisting they should have them.

Well, with all the fakes out there, and so many variations in the requirements... how can officers be guaranteed anything about the ID they get from a legal or an illegal? No, this will keep things "simple" and "under control" and that way we can make sure everyone's safe and when people are stopped and asked for their national ID it'll be one simple procedure to swipe it or scan it and test it and run it all through the system. Any mismatches will result in escalation, even if they're the result of clerical errors ;) In the result of clerical error, you will receive an "Oops, my bad" voicemail from a hilarious celebrity impersonator, or perhaps an e-signed note from your Governor.

...

This nation is toast.

FrankRep
04-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Lol, and only the Democrats are behind this :rolleyes:

Democrats created the bill. :rolleyes:

National ID Card Included In Democratic Immigration Bill
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20100430/cm_huffpost/557721

Vessol
04-30-2010, 04:00 PM
It was originally drafted with Republican help before Graham withdrew to go campaign for McCain.

Also you out of all people should know that Democrats=Republicans. Both are the same party.

Please explain to me though why the Arizona law will work, but this Democrat bill won't.

Why are National ID cards bad? Why is Arizona's law good?

Give me a detailed reasoning, I'm honestly curious why you support Arizona's law yet not this. Is it possibly because the Democrats drafted it

angelatc
04-30-2010, 04:00 PM
Do you think all legal immigrants should be the only ones required to have IDs? And why should illegal immigrants even have IDs? Shouldn't they be being deported..

Yes, legal immigrants should be the only people required to carry ID. Illegal immigrants shouldn't get IDs, and yes, they should be deported.

dannno
04-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Democrats created the bill. :rolleyes:

National ID Card Included In Democratic Immigration Bill
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20100430/cm_huffpost/557721

There is a difference between the two parties now :confused:

I thought the two parties were being used together to divide Americans against each other and confuse them about issues related to liberty so that an orgy of bipartisanship can come through and destroy our liberties to create false solutions for problems that government created :confused:

angelatc
04-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Well, with all the fakes out there, and so many variations in the requirements... how can officers be guaranteed anything about the ID they get from a legal or an illegal? No, this will keep things "simple" and "under control" and that way we can make sure everyone's safe and when people are stopped and asked for their national ID it'll be one simple procedure to swipe it or scan it and test it and run it all through the system. Any mismatches will result in escalation, even if they're the result of clerical errors ;) In the result of clerical error, you will receive an "Oops, my bad" voicemail from a hilarious celebrity impersonator, or perhaps an e-signed note from your Governor.

...

This nation is toast.

So, because the people that have no respect for the law will probably do something else even more illegal, we should just force the border states to live in limbo / anarchy.

Vessol
04-30-2010, 04:05 PM
There is a difference between the two parties now :confused:

I thought the two parties were being used together to divide Americans against each other and confuse them about issues related to liberty so that an orgie of bipartisanship can come through and destroy our liberties to create false solutions for problems that government created and ultimately our country :confused:

I think a few days ago this forum became the GOP Forums instead of the Ron Paul Forums.

dannno
04-30-2010, 04:07 PM
So, because the people that have no respect for the law will probably do something else even more illegal, we should just force the border states to live in limbo / anarchy.

No, we should impose real solutions like stopping entitlements to illegals, not fake ones that take away everybody's liberty and lead to National IDs.

Lord Xar
04-30-2010, 04:19 PM
I think a few days ago this forum became the GOP Forums instead of the Ron Paul Forums.

Well, Ron Paul IS a Republican, is he not?

Also, I find it rather telling when liberals like Constitution, rather than addressing the Dems proposal, finds a way to deflect back onto Republicans. Yet, the same deflection never happens in reverse. Another schill.

Many of you libertarians are sounding more liberal everyday......

This proposal includes the VERY THING so many of you are suppose to be hardcore against, "real id", yet - barely a whimper from any of you. Very very telling. Your only response is "uhmm republicans are different how...?".

Vessol
04-30-2010, 04:24 PM
Well, Ron Paul IS a Republican, is he not?

Also, I find it rather telling when liberals like Constitution, rather than addressing the Dems proposal, finds a way to deflect back onto Republicans. Yet, the same deflection never happens in reverse. Another schill.

Many of you libertarians are sounding more liberal everyday......

This proposal includes the VERY THING so many of you are suppose to be hardcore against, "real id", yet - barely a whimper from any of you. Very very telling. Your only response is "uhmm republicans are different how...?".

Ron Paul runs under the Republican ticket because it would be political suicide to be an independent or run under a third party.

He is not a traditional GOP member.

The mainline GOP consists of NeoConservatives, Theocrats, and Fascists.

All you idiots seem to do is throw constant strawman's, distorting our arguments into trying to make us something we are not. It's a poor way to debate and it goes to show your true devotion to liberty.

ClayTrainor
04-30-2010, 04:25 PM
Well, Ron Paul IS a Republican, is he not?

He's a libertarian / Classical liberal, who runs on the republican ticket to give his ideas a platform. If he ran for congress in The Libertarian party, he'd be less likely to win.



Also, I find it rather telling when liberals like Constitution, rather than addressing the Dems proposal, finds a way to deflect back onto Republicans. Yet, the same deflection never happens in reverse. Another schill.

Many of you libertarians are sounding more liberal everyday......

It's amusing to me that the main argument coming from the anti-immigrant people is a straw-man to try and label the libertarians as democrats / liberals.

MelissaWV
04-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Well, Ron Paul IS a Republican, is he not?

Also, I find it rather telling when liberals like Constitution, rather than addressing the Dems proposal, finds a way to deflect back onto Republicans. Yet, the same deflection never happens in reverse. Another schill.

Many of you libertarians are sounding more liberal everyday......

This proposal includes the VERY THING so many of you are suppose to be hardcore against, "real id", yet - barely a whimper from any of you. Very very telling. Your only response is "uhmm republicans are different how...?".

In case you didn't get it, my post earlier was sarcasm. :(

The frustration over nothing being done is going to lead to one or the other of these bloated, ineffective, ridiculous measures passing... probably the Dems' version because they have the numbers. We don't need this in any way, but it'll be woven into the current "national dialogue," and the terms have already been set.

It won't be about rights, it'll be about race.
It won't be about privacy, it'll be about convenience.
It won't be about personal security, it'll be about national security.
It won't be about whether those deported will just scurry right back in, it'll be about whether we should give the poor dears amnesty.

I don't see a way to sink this one, unless the Dems self-destruct. The Reps will have a harder time mustering the numbers to pass their version. Maybe, just maybe, they can stall one another until the elections... and then people will vow to do things (depending on which way makes them seem cool) and end up doing nothing.

That's the slim hope on this whole mess.

Carole
04-30-2010, 06:08 PM
LOL :D:D:D

"Show me your papers citizen."
The lib lawmakers cry foul and unAmerican, then try to shove REAL ID down our throats. :D

Hilarious.

j6p
04-30-2010, 06:13 PM
Melissa is for the Arizona bill, but not the real id bill. You are sounding more like a flip floper, like John Taylor.

constituent
04-30-2010, 06:17 PM
I think a few days ago this forum became the GOP Forums instead of the Ron Paul Forums.

A few days ago? lol.

It is what it is... just work with what ya got. ;) :)

Carole
04-30-2010, 06:19 PM
Nah..this bill has been in a file cabinet for years. Two copies..one for the Repubs and one for the Dems :D

ClayTrainor
04-30-2010, 06:21 PM
nah..this bill has been in a file cabinet for years. Two copies..one for the repubs and one for the dems :d

+100000000000

Carole
04-30-2010, 06:21 PM
No, we should impose real solutions like stopping entitlements to illegals, not fake ones that take away everybody's liberty and lead to National IDs.
I agree. :D

Marenco
05-01-2010, 12:28 AM
He's a libertarian / Classical liberal, who runs on the republican ticket to give his ideas a platform. If he ran for congress in The Libertarian party, he'd be less likely to win.



It's amusing to me that the main argument coming from the anti-immigrant people is a straw-man to try and label the libertarians as democrats / liberals.

It's anti-illegal immigration. Get it right.

ClayTrainor
05-01-2010, 12:33 AM
It's anti-illegal immigration. Get it right.

What part of LEGAL immigration, don't you understand? (http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf) :)

Marenco
05-01-2010, 03:32 AM
What part of LEGAL immigration, don't you understand? (http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf) :)

Nearly two-thirds of the 32.5 million foreign-born people living in the United States entered this country legally, and the United States has more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. That's hardly poor hospitality, and no bill before Congress that has a chance of becoming law would change this nation's hospitality. But it is poor hospitality to say to the nearly 22 million legal U.S. immigrants who waited in line that they wasted their time following the rules because illegal immigrants will now get the same status.