Puerto Rico will vote on statehood: Vote passed House

[ssforronpaul]

At least an amendment (I haven't read) was passed that supposedly allows them to remain a commonwealth as one of the options.

Here is the best analysis of it I have found:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/29/puerto-rico-statehood-bill-passes-house-223-169/

ssforronpaul

[Kotin]

interesting..

[Carole]

According to Glenn Beck, the progressives in Puerto Rico are tying to sneak this statehood deal through using the "Tennessee Plan." Furthermore, it is spelled out in the progressive platform word for word.

PR has voted against statehood three times now. The plan is to ask if they want something different or the status quo. Then when they ask for something different, they will be given only two other options - neither of which will allow them to remain the same since they will already have asked for something different. I think the choices are independence or statehood.

In other words, it is a trick, a backdoor way to get the people to vote for statehood. Thus they will have two more Dem senators in Congress and about six more Reps in the house, presumably all democrats. Plus, of course, they will have to pay the US taxes.

[james1906]

According to Glenn Beck, the progressives in Puerto Rico are tying to sneak this statehood deal through using the "Tennessee Plan." Furthermore, it is spelled out in the progressive platform word for word.

PR has voted against statehood three times now. The plan is to ask if they want something different or the status quo. Then when they ask for something different, they will be given only two other options - neither of which will allow them to remain the same since they will already have asked for something different. I think the choices are independence or statehood.

In other words, it is a trick, a backdoor way to get the people to vote for statehood. Thus they will have two more Dem senators in Congress and about six more Reps in the house, presumably all democrats. Plus, of course, they will have to pay the US taxes.

And this will get a push going for bilingualism.

[Brian4Liberty]

PR has voted against statehood three times now.

That's typical. Those with the power to call for a vote will keep doing it until they finally get what they want. And once that happens it's irreversible.

[specsaregood]

PR has voted against statehood three times now. The plan is to ask if they want something different or the status quo. Then when they ask for something different, they will be given only two other options - neither of which will allow them to remain the same since they will already have asked for something different. I think the choices are independence or statehood.

So what is good about the status quo for the US? Let's leave PR out of this, why should we want to keep the status quo.

[cindy25]

why assume PR will elect DEM senators and congressmen?
they are religious, socially conservative. far more conservative than the average Texan.

[Carole]

I have no idea why the status quo would be good for the US, except we provide fewer benefits. With statehood they will get the entire ball of wax. Since it is close to Cuba there might be some concern.

Totally off the wall thought is that it might be a place for laundering monies and hdiing monies by those who deal drugs and those who have other needs. ????

They will get the vote in Congress which they do not have now.

We save some money with the status quo. Then there is the issue of language. Someone offered an amendment to require English as their official and it was voted down today. This could be a sort of backdoor for abolishing English as official language.

PR keeps voting down statehood for obvious reasons, but they enjoy a number of freebies from the US. So the Dems seem to think these new voters would be dems.

Here is the wiki:

h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico

[nate895]

While Puerto Ricans have voted against statehood, the trend is in favor of statehood and they were only .3% of the vote short last time.

[CJLauderdale4]

Still trying to figure out why Ron Paul is sponsoring this bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR02499:@@@P

And while we're at it... I've got an idea...

Since we're going to let 4 million non-US citizens decide if they want to be a state, why don't we throw away our representation as well here in the US, and let 300 million US citizens decide if they NO LONGER want to be a State. After all, it's only fair, right?

And if the people of the state choose to stay a state, we'll keep asking them every 4-8 years during election time if they STILL want to be a state.

Thoughts???

[nate895]

Still trying to figure out why Ron Paul is sponsoring this bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR02499:@@@P

And while we're at it... I've got an idea...

Since we're going to let 4 million non-US citizens decide if they want to be a state, why don't we throw away our representation as well here in the US, and let 300 million US citizens decide if they NO LONGER want to be a State. After all, it's only fair, right?

And if the people of the state choose to stay a state, we'll keep asking them every 4-8 years during election time if they STILL want to be a state.

Thoughts???

That sounds good, I think what we should do is we should follow up every presidential election a year later with an automatic vote on whether to remain in the Union.

[cindy25]

English is not, nor ever has been, the "official" language. The USA has none.
some states, such as Louisiana and Vermont, have English and French as official languages

[No1ButPaul08]

Since we're going to let 4 million non-US citizens decide if they want to be a state

False.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones-Shafroth_Act

[mczerone]

And this will get a push going for bilingualism.

So?

[mczerone]

We save some money with the status quo. Then there is the issue of language. Someone offered an amendment to require English as their official and it was voted down today. This could be a sort of backdoor for abolishing English as official language.

Carole, read this:


English is not, nor ever has been, the "official" language. The USA has none.
some states, such as Louisiana and Vermont, have English and French as official languages

Constitutionally there is no grant of power to the US to designate language beyond "standard weights and measures". And it's hardly liberty-oriented to try to standardize everyone's speech by force; language has flowered specifically when it hasn't been imposed by a state.




Since we're going to let 4 million non-US citizens decide if they want to be a state, why don't we throw away our representation as well here in the US, and let 300 million US citizens decide if they NO LONGER want to be a State. After all, it's only fair, right?


That's not technically right, procedurally, but I do think this gives great leverage to peaceful secession. Let the membership be fluid and mutual.

This Act establishes that both parties (the State and the Fedgov) must consent, thus either party can void the relationship.

[silus]

I remember over ten years ago in Army basic training where I first learned that Puerto Ricans can enlist directly from Puerto Rico. I still can't understand the difference between US territories and states.

[GunnyFreedom]

I remember over ten years ago in Army basic training where I first learned that Puerto Ricans can enlist directly from Puerto Rico. I still can't understand the difference between US territories and states.

States get stars on the flag. :D

[cindy25]

Puerto Ricans have been US citizens since 1917, the primary purpose was to subject them to Wilson's draft

[Slutter McGee]

I don't know about yall, but I am sick and tired of all these other places becoming states. What have territories....and nobody and nothing good ever comes from em. I mean. That asshole Goldwater wasn't born in a state, and we all know how worthless he was.

Honestly though, I really don't see the problem if a bunch of people want to enter into a mutually binding contract with the Union. I have no problem. We are not using force to get them to enter...and I have no problem with it. But they should keep in mind that the Federal Government will violate their part of the deal.

Actually. I changed my mind again. This is all a conspiracy. The Flag producing lobby is in on it...working with the NWO.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[Noob]

What is sooo godawful horribly wrong with Puerto Rico becoming a State? It could be a way for free loveing Americans in Puerto Rico to pressure them draft and pass an State Constitution to thats make Puerto Rico the freest State in the Union. Making all the other States to take a long hard look, and ask why they arent the Freest State in the Union.

[nobody's_hero]

What is sooo godawful horribly wrong with Puerto Rico becoming a State? It could be a way for free loveing Americans in Puerto Rico to pressure them draft and pass an State Constitution to thats make Puerto Rico the freest State in the Union. Making all the other States to take a long hard look, and ask why they arent the Freest State in the Union.

???

They're already free. They'd be idiots to join the union now, when so many are wondering if it would be better to get out. Sure, they don't have the same representation, but nobody screws with them. When was the last time Obama went down to Puerto Rico to spew lies about how 'good' the economy is doing? Most people forget that we even have territories. I wish my state, Georgia, could be forgotten about by the idiots in D.C., but alas, it is too late for the 50 states already in the union.

Don't do it Puerto Rico. "It's a trap!"

[angelatc]

I don't understand why there wasn't any fanfare about this - it seems that possibly admitting another state to the union would be a big deal, worth celebrating and cheering..etc. The fact that they're shoving this through so fast and without any media attention makes me wonder what else is in the works.

Other than that I don't care.

[Mini-Me]

WTF are they going to do, draw three rows of seventeen? Bad move! Then again, now they'll HAVE to let a state secede...unless they can find some nice combination with a different number of stars in odd and even rows again...or some other pattern entirely...hrmmm...too lazy to come up with the possibilities... :D

[nobody's_hero]

WTF are they going to do, draw three rows of seventeen? Bad move! Then again, now they'll HAVE to let a state secede...unless they can find some nice combination with a different number of stars in odd and even rows again...hrmmm...too lazy to come up with the possibilities... :D

Since we're heading toward centralization, they might as well make just one big red star and be done with it. We can do away with the stripes as well, because we don't want anyone thinking about the history of the 13 original colonies that rebelled against the king.

[Mini-Me]

Since we're heading toward centralization, they might as well make just one big red star and be done with it. We can do away with the stripes as well, because we don't want anyone thinking about the history of the 13 original colonies that rebelled against the king.

Good idea. Red star, you say? Maybe we should rearrange the red, white, and blue to look something a little more like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_North_Korea)? ;)

[MelissaWV]

One post, addressing many ;)


And this will get a push going for bilingualism.

... Yes, because an island which was already full of American citizens and had already been largely bilingual in the areas mainlanders were going to visit, is going to be the cause of the country pushing for bilingualism.

There are more of us off the island than on it these days. If bilingualism is your big concern out of this, it's misplaced. Learning a second language is an excellent backup plan, like investing in a foreign currency, but it shouldn't be mandated. That kind of cost, headache, and Government expansion is always always ALWAYS bad.


...Those with the power to call for a vote will keep doing it until they finally get what they want. And once that happens it's irreversible.

You have it partly right on both counts. They don't keep calling the same vote. They are changing the rules of the game until they win. Have you ever played a game with, say, a 7-10 year old? Many of them do that. If they see themselves losing they may say "Okay and if you land on a RED space you should lose a point, because red spaces are lava!" or something equally ridiculous. A lot of times, this is a chance to teach. There are no teachers here. People born on the island who are now on the mainland are allowed to vote, and I am guessing this is what it boils down to:

1. Mainlanders overwhelmingly vote for Statehood. Are they betting that, because we are here in the states themselves, that we adore it so much and want the exact stamp applied there? That actually made me wince a bit.

2. Mainlanders overwhelmingly vote for Independence. I'm not sure Independence in the sense many on this board are thinking will ever happen. I think the island will just be one further step in that direction. The US Government will immediately run into a lot of problems if they just "cut the cord." Their military bases, business ties, and welfare entanglements are the most basic ones that come to mind. Why would an independent nation force its workers to pay into another nation's Social Security fund? Of course, those who have already paid will still be receiving their benefits. Veterans will still be receiving their benefits (those that ever get them... that's a huge problem, too). There is a long list of benefits that we all know are not "benefits," but Governmental contract obligations.

3. Mainlanders overwhelmingly vote for Commonwealth (since the OP shows it is an option again now, as I figured it eventually would be). The media would have such fun with this, playing both sides up like they do with many things. Don't Puerto Ricans on the Mainland LIKE states? Why do they live in states if they don't like states?!? Don't they want FREEDOM for mami and papi living back home? Let's ask our panel of 4,000 experts. Then an ethnocentrist or twenty will hop in, saying it demonstrates that the mainlanders aren't really part of the USA and "we don't take kinely to yer kine 'roun here" and maybe even one really misguided "they took our jobs!" Then a lot of people will say that PR doesn't pay anything in taxes and it just wants all the welfare without paying in a dime.

On your second point, if the vote is to keep things the same it will be automatically reversible :rolleyes: I actually think that should be the case for all states, come to think of it, and all the options here: every 8 years, it's on the ballot. I wonder if, right now, a state would say "nahhhh we vote we don't want to be a state anymore."


Still trying to figure out why Ron Paul is sponsoring this bill...

Since we're going to let 4 million non-US citizens decide if they want to be a state, why don't we throw away our representation as well here in the US, and let 300 million US citizens decide if they NO LONGER want to be a State. After all, it's only fair, right?

And if the people of the state choose to stay a state, we'll keep asking them every 4-8 years during election time if they STILL want to be a state.

Thoughts???

See above about the "deciding to be a state" thing. I think it's actually not a bad idea to just have it periodically on the ballot.

The fact that people, even on this message board (which, even WITH all the trolls and possibly one or two corpses, has a fairly high overall intelligence level...), still have the cojones to jump into this particular argument and say "4 million non-US citizens..." makes me gag. Please tell me you are joking. If you're born in Puerto Rico, you're a US citizen. For this vote, they are also opening up the voting to those born on the island and living in the mainland. There are going to be more absentee ballots than ballots on the island.


I don't understand why there wasn't any fanfare about this - it seems that possibly admitting another state to the union would be a big deal, worth celebrating and cheering..etc. The fact that they're shoving this through so fast and without any media attention makes me wonder what else is in the works.

Other than that I don't care.

It goes through periodically, but I don't think it has set in exactly how ridiculously daunting the task they set themselves is from a logistics standpoint. After thinking about it more last night, this sounds like a "stimulus" bill for the island :rolleyes: I know why Dr. Paul would want this in, and I know why a lot of people would hope to see a solid vote one way or another, but it won't happen for a REALLY long time. I can't emphasize enough how LONG this will take to happen. No one's going to make a huge deal about this yet, because it is a distant opinion poll which hasn't yet started to take full shape. As the Arizona stuff dies down, and the oil spill dies down, the news might pick it up if this aspect isn't stale, or they'll wait on it. News on Puerto Rico often doesn't spread on the network media, like the birth certificate thing. It's kind of been that way.


... We can do away with the stripes as well, because we don't want anyone thinking about the history of the 13 original colonies that rebelled against the king.

I kid you not. I don't know which website it was, but there was a flag logo that looked to me like some (if not all) of the stripes were entirely not visible. It wasn't in association with this story, but I would not put it past these coming administrations to toy with the flag and "re-invent" it.

* * *

I think the best option on the table for my vote, if it came up today and were worded so simply, would be "sovereignty in association with the United States" but I would need to know what the hell that implies. I am willing to bet it really is the most workable option, too, because of the way it's worded... which means the bet is on that most people won't know what it is, and won't vote for it anyways.

[constituent]

And this will get a push going for bilingualism.

Oh God no! Demon BILINGUALISM? Anything but that!!! Heaven help us all!!!!1

I'm tellin' ya folks, the NWO (or was that the NAU? oh f* it, it changes so often I can't keep up) is just around the corner.

One. World. Government.

Quick, call the JBS, call Alex Jones, something must be done to stop this!

JUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


why assume PR will elect DEM senators and congressmen?
they are religious, socially conservative. far more conservative than the average Texan.

Yea... but in case you hadn't heard they're "latino" meaning that they vote "dispropurtionately" (whatever that is) in favor of redistribution (unlike white folks, apparently).

Just ask John... and the rest of the rpf border patrol crew. They'll tell ya.

It's a given. Dark skin = Democrat

[MelissaWV]

Separate, bonus post ;)

It's a little odd, but the reason my family had to uproot and move was because of the terrorists! No, not those. They weren't invented yet.


En el 12 de enero de 1981, EPB perpetró un acto de arrojo sin precedente por un grupo puertorriqueño, infiltrando por Base Muñiz de la Guardia Aérea Nacional, una parte del Aeropuerto Internacional Luis Muñoz Marín en Carolina, Puerto Rico, en las afueras de la capital San Juan. Los intrusos destruyeron o dañaron a diez aviones de A-7 Corsair y un F-104 Starfighter, en aquellos tiempos aviones del último modelo. Los daños costaron $45 millones y humillaron el establecimiento militar por la isla. *translation @ bottom of post.

Dad was in the National Guard at the time (NOT in security!). In the "aftermath" a lot of people were moved around to other places. It wasn't for being involved, or bad behavior, but because the climate was tense and things were politically charged. It was that sense you get right before something really nasty is going to happen. He got offered a good job with fine pay in South Carolina. Yes. That was my first contact with the mainland, a flea-bitten Holiday Inn and listening to mom say "ham-burrr-gurrr-hauh-pee-meel" into a speaker over and over, and listening to the woman buzz back "whachoowant sugar?" "No soogar... ham-burrr-grrr"

Anyways. If this wins through, and PR becomes independent, I wonder if those guys will now be considered freedom fighters, since they were blowing up Government targets supposedly to get PR its freedom (they believed it is a colony of the Empire). All of it's sounding rather familiar, don't you think?

Yeah, I think I might mention to my family it could be a time to consider following me out of the country :p

On January 12, 1981, the Boricua Popular Army (Macheteros) perpetuated an act of unprecedented boldness by a Puerto Rican group, gaining access via the Muñiz Air National Guard Base, to a part of the Luis Muñoz Marín International Airport in Carolina, Puerto Rico, on the outskirts of the capital San Juan. The intruders destroyed or damaged ten A-7 Corsair airplanes and an F-104 Starfighter, cutting-edge technology at that time. Damages cost $45,000,000 and the island's military establishment was humiliated.

Translation not exact ... I still wanted it to read okay in English.

[MelissaWV]

...
Yea... but in case you hadn't heard they're "latino" meaning that they vote "dispropurtionately" (whatever that is) in favor of redistribution (unlike white folks, apparently).

Just ask John... and the rest of the rpf border patrol crew. They'll tell ya.

It's a given. Dark skin = Democrat

I do find it mildly amusing that someone so worried about redistribution of earthly goods is less worried about redistribution of the right to vote... but there's several of them on the boards. It's better to let them twirl and just watch :p

[specsaregood]

I do find it mildly amusing that someone so worried about redistribution of earthly goods is less worried about redistribution of the right to vote... but there's several of them on the boards. It's better to let them twirl and just watch :p

Melissa, what did you think of the argument against this that so many of the democrats opposed to the bill were making yesterday? They were arguing that by passing this bill and forcing this vote on the PR people, that we were violating their right to "self-determination". Personally, I'm still confused as to how having people vote, is overriding their self-determination, but maybe I'm just stupid.

and as far as bilingualism, big whoopie. I lived in a country that had 3 official languages, I never really had a problem communicating. Sure, sometimes we had to rely on big hand movements and gestures and grunting and pointing, but things always ended up ok. Ironically, with many of the people I ended up having to communicate in broken spanish, which was not even one of the official languages, but spoken brokely by many of the locals and the nonlocals alike.

[MelissaWV]

Melissa, what did you think of the argument against this that so many of the democrats opposed to the bill were making yesterday? They were arguing that by passing this bill and forcing this vote on the PR people, that we were violating their right to "self-determination". Personally, I'm still confused as to how having people vote, is overriding their self-determination, but maybe I'm just stupid.

and as far as bilingualism, big whoopie. I lived in a country that had 3 official languages, I never really had a problem communicating. Sure, sometimes we had to rely on big hand movements and gestures and grunting and pointing, but things always ended up ok. Ironically, with many of the people I ended up having to communicate in broken spanish, which was not even one of the official languages, but spoken brokely by many of the locals and the nonlocals alike.

Self-determination is a bluff. These votes happen periodically, though the bill makes this a little more of an official "try," because it implies if the island votes "Statehood," they might actually be admitted. Congress' approval is needed regardless of Puerto Rico's self-determination, and the democrats in question know it.

Getting a good idea on the ballot in PR pretty much takes a miracle, and miracles are expensive. I am guessing that's the means being referenced with all the self-determination talk, and also the fact this "has been decided before." Well, lots of things come up for votes again and again. Different people vote. This time, someone made sure the voting pool looks very different indeed.