View from a Capt in the Air Force

[USAFCapt]

I was in the military in March of 2003 when we kicked off OIF. We were just so excited to see action nobody really questioned why we were going in. I am still on active duty and let me tell you: OIF has made for some good military Performance Reports (i.e. gets us promoted), so even though many fellow military members admit to me now that OIF is illegitimate they like to deploy for the adventure, promotion and pay.

During discussions that take place outside of official meetings a majority of us say that the war is not in our national interest. But I can understand why higher ranking officers cannot talk about it in meetings because that is not the military's job. We do what we are told through the chain of command.

I will be voting for Ron even if it means no future job for myself at the Dept of Homeland Security or other governmental agency. I want to vote for whom Thomas Jefferson would have voted.

Any other military members on this forum? Ask questions if you would like and I would appreciate your comments.

[hambone1982]

Word, Sir. Word.

[lucky]

Thank you Sir and all military personnel for your service. I was in the military many years ago and we do not question our civilian leadership but do our job we were trained to do. We may afterwards tip a few with comrades and talk politics but we will the next day go about doiing the best job possible.

I have been lurking in the military forums to get a feel for the reaction to Ron Paul and have found he is under the radar right now. We need to change this.

Again thank you for your service.

[LibertyEagle]

I have been lurking in the military forums to get a feel for the reaction to Ron Paul and have found he is under the radar right now. We need to change this.


Any suggestions?

[LibertyEagle]

I also wanted to say it makes me proud to be an American when I see current and ex-military men and women supporters of Dr. Paul. I applaud your service, your clear understanding of what this country was supposed to be all about and your exemplary courage to stand up and buck the tide.

Thank You.

[RonPaul4President]

I was in the military in March of 2003 when we kicked off OIF. We were just so excited to see action nobody really questioned why we were going in. I am still on active duty and let me tell you: OIF has made for some good military Performance Reports (i.e. gets us promoted), so even though many fellow military members admit to me now that OIF is illegitimate they like to deploy for the adventure, promotion and pay.

During discussions that take place outside of official meetings a majority of us say that the war is not in our national interest. But I can understand why higher ranking officers cannot talk about it in meetings because that is not the military's job. We do what we are told through the chain of command.

I will be voting for Ron even if it means no future job for myself at the Dept of Homeland Security or other governmental agency. I want to vote for whom Thomas Jefferson would have voted.

Any other military members on this forum? Ask questions if you would like and I would appreciate your comments.

Thank you for your courage and doing what you felt was right. The best thing you can do for your country now is to get the truth out to your comrades. There are going to be a few troublemakers and liars that want to claim a group of people to their own agenda. Just like in a peaceful demonstration ther will be a few that want to make the whole group look bad by starting a riot. You/we need to get the truth about Ron Paul and what our goverment is doing out to military personnel, veterans, and law enforcement.

USAFCapt, thank you for fighting for all our freedoms and liberties.

[Revolution9]

hello Captain.. I see this from the GAO
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06666.pdf

heh..gotta love that number it is designated with..

coupled with this analysis at
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56040


"Against the strong protests of the Government Accountability Office, or GAO, several key strategic military commands, including NORAD and NORTHCOM, are moving ahead with a Department of Defense decision to abandon the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center, the center of U.S. missile defense since the Cold War, to make way for what a GAO report says could be used as a "continuity of operations relocation facility."

In an extraordinary report issued by the GAO May 21, Davi D'Agostino, GAO director of defense capabilities and management and the author of the report, considered the military's decision to abandon Cheyenne Mountain so unfounded that the agency urgently called for congressional hearings." <snipped>

It looks like ZOG wants command and control under their fingers. As someone in the Air Force and knowing what the ission of NORAD is..what is your take on this troubling move?

Best
Randy

[lonestarguy]

Welcome Aboard Captn! I'm also former AF officer and DStorm vet, ten years in Europe (Pruem Air Station near Bitburg; Geilenkirchen/Awacs, and Messtetten/Nato Soc 4), and 120 day sojourn to FACP Al Jubail Saudi Arabia, air weapons controller 17xx(we tell pilots where to go) and Nato Awacs crewmember 86-91. You'll find loads of veterans across the RonPaulNation. Course, you know Ron himself is a Vietnam era Air Force Flight Surgeon. It's about time we get an Air Force veteran and real life Statesman in the WHouse.

[CurtisLow]

I'm also a former AF Sgt. SP. I Salute all military personal that think outside the box.

[angelatc]

Welcome, and thanks for your service. I tried to enroll in the AF but I couldn't serve for medical reasons, but my husband is a Vietnam era vet, and comes from a family with a long military history.

I'd like to know how you think we can get the Armed Services to vote for Dr Paul.

[lucky]

Any suggestions?


Yes I do. I am hoping to find who can gather some material and make some youtube vids that are more military minded. I also am gonna look at his library and any site and try and gather links that I or any other service member or veteran can then go to the forums and start getting some discussion on Ron.

I have been busy and can only do so much. I have been hitting the truckers hard right now and want to start the military stuff soon.

Also maybe a seperate room or section here for the military would be nice where we can all congregate and discuss and plan details.

[1k9]

I was a crewchief on f111s, seems like an eternity ago. Nice to know other Airmen are on the boards.

[dwdollar]

I was enlisted in the AF and worked on the AWACS as an avioncis technician. The mainstream media likes to portray servicemen as being disproportionally Republican. While that may be true, I found many of them to be on the libertarian side than the neocon. It's much easier to appreciate freedom after you've seen what it's like to have it taken away. Ron Paul would make an excellent candidate for the military.

[lucky]

My father amd most of everyone in my family went AF and I bucked tradition and went Army. I admired and try to follow and do anything that I think would make my father proud of me and use that as my guidance. Ron Paul also was AF and I like his thinking. Says a lot about the AF I think. Wonder how many Army or other services are representing?

[KingTheoden]

Thank you for your service, USAFCapt and all others on the forum for your devotion to America. I am not in the military and know only a handful of current soldiers/officers. With that said, it seems to me that if Ron Paul is presented correctly, he would be vastly more popular in the military than any other candidate.

My senior year of high school I began to 'wake up' to the fact that our government was in the hands of some rather distasteful people and was using the goodwill and patriotism of the American people to achieve their aims for a unified, single world state. This came at both the best and worst times for me because I was in the midst of competing for a Naval scholarship to become a Marine officer and my 'awakening' was January 2003, right before the war. So, for me, I made the decision to suspend my interest in military service potentially sparing me from being harmed in a war that was undeclared and had nothing to do with defense. However, I say it was the worst time to wake up because I was attacked very hard for being a coward, unpatriotic, a chicken (good friends said I was afraid of entering because there was a war on the horizon despite my attempts to explain my reasoning).

Anyway, the point is that a lot has changed in the past four and a half years. I think many people in the armed forces realize that the civilian leadership that contains hardly any veterans at all wants to use them as pawns in a global chess game.

Ron Paul is different. He was one of the earliest Reagan backers and the two enjoyed a close relationship often working together towards the goals of less government, more freedom, and a better America. If anyone holds claim to the Reagan legacy, it is positively Ron Paul. If we can break through the media black out, the message will resonate. And our cause will be unstoppable.

[aravoth]

Nice to see you here Sir, even if you are in the Air Force, Should've been a real man and joined the Army like I did. :D Just kidding.

I've seen alot of veterans on the forum and also an awful lot that are supporting Dr. Paul. I do know several NCO's in the active duty army that I still talk to and spend holidays with that support Ron Paul. I wish the guys in the sandbox could get wind of his message a little better, but they've got other things to worry about right now. But to answer your question, yes, there are alot of servicemen that support Paul.

[SlapItHigh]

I am not in the military but I am the spouse of a naval officer. My husband asked his peers about Ron Paul after the 2nd debate and they do not support him. They agree with Giuliani. I was saddened to hear this response. Truth be told, my own husband is not 100% on board with Paul but is starting to agree with him on the war issue.

[manuel]

Thank you for your service to the country. I support the men and women of our military 100%.

[xcalybur]

I am currently in the Air Force, SSgt, but I will be seperating in about 1 month. I have enjoyed serving my country, but I always feared that I would be deployed to Iraq. I never agreed with this war. It just doesn't make sense. I was lucky because of my profession in the Air Force, that if I was sent overseas to fight then we are in serious trouble. Capt. I appreciate your strength in posting on these boards. I know a LOT of officers and not many have the guts you do. I applaud you sir.

BTW, what base do you work at? Or at least the state?

[Hawaii Libertarian]

I'm on terminal leave and the end of this month will mark the end of my 22 year active duty Air Force career. Like Karen Kwiatkowski, I finished my career as an O-5 working in the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD). I never met Karen (OSD and the Pentagon are huge places), but you can find her writings at the link below. I encourage all current and former military people on this forum, and those with an interest in current military affairs to read her writings.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski-arch.html

I can't talk a lot about what I saw at OSD because I was in lots of meetings with very senior people, but I have been a supporter of Ron Paul for years and never bought into the "check your brain at the door" attitude that it seems you need to do to attain higher rank. Many of our Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Chiefs of Staff of the Air Force, such as General Merrill McPeak, for example, are or were members of the Council on Foreign Relations, so it's no wonder that military schools of professional military education teach interventionist, neo-con propaganda as "fact" and thoughts of statesmen like Dr. Paul are most unwelcome at the war colleges and other places where our senior leaders are groomed.

The one big thought I can offer is that OSD and the Pentagon is full of political appointees as well as career civil servants that control the policy and the uniformed force gets tasked to execute the policy. If a statesman like Dr. Paul gets elected President and puts appointees that think like him into the key leadership positions (SECDEF, Deputy SECDEF, and civilian Service Secretaries as well as the Chairman), we'll finally see the "transformation" that Rumsfeld promised, but never really delivered.

Unfortunately, the entire military culture with its emphasis on following orders with no or minimal questioning tends to quash any independent thought. A lot of people just want to kick the tires and light the fires and do the jobs they've been trained to do, but don't always give serious thought to why they are doing what they're doing. War mongers like Giuliani are tailor-made for this crowd.

[SeanEdwards]

Every service member takes an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. That should make them natural supporters of the only Presidential candidate who also believes in defending the U.S. constitution.

[lucky]

I am not in the military but I am the spouse of a naval officer. My husband asked his peers about Ron Paul after the 2nd debate and they do not support him. They agree with Giuliani. I was saddened to hear this response. Truth be told, my own husband is not 100% on board with Paul but is starting to agree with him on the war issue.


Thank you Slap ithigh. The spouses of the military and the sacrifices that y'all endure is beyonf comprehension to most and I wanted to thank you personally for the sacrifice that you and all spouses and family members have to go through. Without y'all then then the military serivice would be meaningless and not rewarding.

Yes I was worried about this myself. I am trying to just feel out the forums and areas of veterans and military for now. I know how they feel and think and know that most are conservative and very patriotic. Ron Paul is new and not much on his views and ideas are known. The main thing most seem to know is that he wants an immediate pull out and historically means LOSING and we hate losing. Also the perception of Ron Paul and what little is known is that he is an isolationist and that is a big buzz kill.

Ron Paul needs to address these issues more and somehow I and others need to go through the library and anything that is found on his views of the military and veterans and reaassure them that this is not so. Hate to say this to all of us but without the support of the veterans then he will not when a Republican primary. It is a tough pill to swallow but it is true.

I suggest also that only military and veterans start making inroads in that community and start and outreach to them. If any other who has no ideas on the mentality of the world needs to not go in and discuss as it could make matters worse. We speak the talk and can walk the walk so to speak.

As I said before maybe we can try to make a place where military and veterans can gather and discuss things and plan on how to further this. Of course I am including the family and spouses that understand the culture.

Also I am hoping that we can get someone that knows how to make vids for youtube and start making some geared toward this culture. We will also need to comb everything we can find that RP has said or done that we can go over and show his commitment toward the military.

Does this sound like a good idea to anyone else?

[Hawaii Libertarian]

Every service member takes an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. That should make them natural supporters of the only Presidential candidate who also believes in defending the U.S. constitution.

This is very true in theory; however, I would suspect that a great majority of the military (like the population as a whole) are ignorant of the Constitution and what it really says. Tragically, I suspect many people, both in and out of uniform, find nothing wrong with the current administration's unconstitutional interventionism, foreign entanglements, and economic policies. The oath of office become just hollow words for many to be repeated at ceremonies, but without impact on their thought processes or day-to-day lives.

Many others are just plain pragmatic and the military becomes a way to pay the bills. They reason that as long as Congress continues to authorize funding for operations, and their leaders don't resign in protest, it must be OK.

Remember, the President, members of the Cabinet, and Members of Congress take a similar oath and it doesn't seem to stop them from advancing unconstitutional legislation and policies to reduce our liberties.

[4Horsemen]

I was just a paratrooper in the Army. Everybody, go into the Air Force because they got the best looking chicks bar none. I spent most of my off days on the neighboring Air Force Base. I could of saved a lot of gas money by just joining the AF in the first place. :) On this serious side, I hope more military personnel wake up, and thanks for your service. ;)

[SeanEdwards]

This is very true in theory; however, I would suspect that a great majority of the military (like the population as a whole) are ignorant of the Constitution and what it really says. Tragically, I suspect many people, both in and out of uniform, find nothing wrong with the current administration's unconstitutional interventionism, foreign entanglements, and economic policies.

I wouldn't be quite so certain about the political opinions of the folks in uniform. The military is quite a diverse group, though it's not always apparent because of the military mindset of maintaining discipline and order. In my brief time in the military (I enlisted at age 35, but was unable to complete basic due to a back problem), I encountered some very remarkable and astute individuals. Certainly there are some crypto-fascist types who would follow a hitlerian figure no matter was ordered. But there's also quite a few very deep, historical thinkers, who choose to serve out of a sense of personal honor and duty. The kind of people who would give their lives in the execution of lawful orders, even when they don't personally agree with those orders.

[lucky]

Apologize I lost my train of thought while talking to a friend and deleted the post.

[denvervoipguru]

Welcome Sir...

"You don't concentrate on risks. You concentrate on results. No risk is too great to prevent the necessary job from getting done. "

- Chuck Yeager

[Hawaii Libertarian]

I just got this in an e-mail from the Air Force Association. Nowhere does it mention defending or supporting the Constitution. While nothing in here is wrong per se, the words below can easily be twisted to justify unconstitutional preemptive, interventionist wars and military actions.


The Airman's Creed

I am an American Airman.
I am a warrior.
I have answered my nation's call.
I am an American Airman.
My mission is to fly, fight, and win.
I am faithful to a proud heritage,
A tradition of honor,
And a legacy of valor.
I am an American Airman,
Guardian of freedom and justice,
My nation's sword and shield,
Its sentry and avenger.
I defend my country with my life.
I am an American Airman:
Wingman, leader, warrior.
I will never leave an Airman behind,
I will never falter,
And I will not fail.

[Spatch67]

USAFCapt. Good to hear from you sir! I am a TSgt. in the Air Force and am heading to Iraq later this summer. I couldn't agree with you more. I have been regretful of the Iraq war for a while, but I realize that we (the military) don't make policy, and we can't even affect it in any way. so the best we can do is to do our best our day to day activities to promote as positive an image as possible, as well as to help to rebuild the country of Iraq the best we can while we are over there and for as long as we have to.

If it comes down to Ron Paul being President and me losing my job, I am more than willing to do what is best for the country. Even if I lose my retirement benifits.

We are sworn to defend the Constitution, and I can think of no better way to do than to vote for the ONLY Champion of the Constitution! I have a feeling there are a lot more military members who feel this way than we know about.

[Spatch67]

The Airman's Creed

I am an American Airman.
I am a warrior.
I have answered my nation's call.
I am an American Airman.
My mission is to fly, fight, and win.
I am faithful to a proud heritage,
A tradition of honor,
And a legacy of valor.
I am an American Airman,
Guardian of freedom and justice,
My nation's sword and shield,
Its sentry and avenger.
I defend my country with my life.
I am an American Airman:
Wingman, leader, warrior.
I will never leave an Airman behind,
I will never falter,
And I will not fail.

This isn't our oath we are sworn to uphold, this is a ceremonial passage that is sometimes stated during promotions, etc. Our oath specifically states that we defend and protect the Constitution of the United States

[Marceline88]

If it comes down to Ron Paul being President and me losing my job, I am more than willing to do what is best for the country. Even if I lose my retirement benifits.


With Ron Paul as president I don't believe you would lose your job or your benefits, you worked hard for them and deserve them and we need you and a strong military to protect our borders. He would just never ever send you to a foreign land to fight in an unconstitutional undeclared war for profit and political reasons.


Thank you all for your service. God bless.

[SeanEdwards]

With Ron Paul as president I don't believe you would lose your job or your benefits, you worked hard for them and deserve them and we need you and a strong military to protect our borders. He would just never ever send you to a foreign land to fight in an unconstitutional undeclared war for profit and political reasons.


Thank you all for your service. God bless.

No doubt, that is huge. Nobody would be sent to war without Congress doing it's constitutional duty to actually DECLARE WAR. What a concept!

[Hawaii Libertarian]

This isn't our oath we are sworn to uphold, this is a ceremonial passage that is sometimes stated during promotions, etc. Our oath specifically states that we defend and protect the Constitution of the United States

Sure, it's ceremonial creed, but from what I've seen over 22 years of military service, a lot of people say the words in the oath, but when you talk to them about what it really means to "support and defend" the Constitution, you just get a blank stare back. I'm not saying that's representative of everyone, but in all of my military formal schooling, I never heard the instructors talk about the Constitution much. In fact, there's been more emphasis on NATO and combined operations, such as those in support of the UN, than those military missions duly authorized in the Constitution. In all of the talking points coming from the service chiefs of staff and civilian leaders to their military forces, you don't see much mentioned about supporting and defending the Constitution.

I guess it's similar to Congress opening each daily session with a prayer. Sure, they go through the motions, but they act and legislate as if there was no God.

I don't look for a conspiracy behind everything, but I do have to hypothesize that the reason Dr. Paul isn't getting more solid support from retired general officers is that an unspoken view exists among the generals that have passed the neo-con and Council on Foreign Relations "admission" tests. These officers believe the Constitution as written is practically obsolete so Dr. Paul's (and our) strongly held beliefs about it are out of step with the mainstream.

Lots of retired general officers spoke out publicly and criticized Rumsfeld. I'm very disappointed, but not surprised, that not one has come out publicly to support Dr. Paul and his views. Of course, when these guys leave military service, many go back to leadership positions in the civilian military-industrial complex, so they don't want to cut their own throats and lose those cushy high paying jobs.

Commissioning Oath

I, (state name), having been appointed a second lieutenant in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, so help me God.

[legion]

i hate to say it, but the air force is where the interventionist policies of our military really makes itself evident. you really only have to look at the make up of our air force to know what our intentions are at any point in time.

we went so far as to transform our air dominance fighter platform, the f15, into a freaking fighter bomber (F15E), and now we want stealth fighters! Why would we need stealth fighters unless we are going to be attempting to control the skies deep into hostile territory?

[CJLauderdale4]

Welcome aboard Captain!!

Ron Paul will not shrink the military. He will being them home to DEFEND the nation, rather than going on pre-emptive offensive maneuvers.

The initial reason for creating the Articles of Confederation and then the US Constitution was to have united construct for defending the nation and regulating commerce between foreign nations.

Your job is not in jeopardy....

[ksuguy]

If it comes down to Ron Paul being President and me losing my job, I am more than willing to do what is best for the country. Even if I lose my retirement benifits.


Actually I think your benefits would probably be safer with Ron Paul as president. He has mentioned his support for veterans numerous times and has repeatedly said we need to improve all the various veterans programs out there.

[Hawaii Libertarian]

i hate to say it, but the air force is where the interventionist policies of our military really makes itself evident. you really only have to look at the make up of our air force to know what our intentions are at any point in time.

we went so far as to transform our air dominance fighter platform, the f15, into a freaking fighter bomber (F15E), and now we want stealth fighters! Why would we need stealth fighters unless we are going to be attempting to control the skies deep into hostile territory?

See the biography of the current Chief of Staff of the Air Force at the link below. He's an open and proud member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). If you do a serious study of the history and goals of the CFR, such as the excellent and classic book Tragedy and Hope by Professor Carroll Quigley, it's amazing that membership in this organization isn't considered a violation of the oath of office because they aim to destroy our national sovereignty and merge our nation into a one world government. Of course, the leaders of the MSM as well as many cabinet members and corporate leaders are members, so the CFR's views are promoted as "informed and mainstream" while constitutional views of Dr. Paul are promoted by the MSM as "extremist" or "out of touch." Welcome to 1984!

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6545