Looking for former Bush/War Supporters

[basummers31]

Looking for former Bush/War Supporters who now support Ron Paul. I want to know how, what, and why you changed your mind about Bush and the Wars. How did you loose your fear of Terrorists? What was it that made you change your mind?

Thanks

[4RPinKC]

I'll take a crack at this one.

I supported the war to take out Saddam because of the human rights atrocities he committed.

The shift came when liberation turned into occupation. There truly is no way we walk out of there victorious as long as our actions breed more resentment. We are destabilizing the region rather than creating stability.

I saw the light watching "I know I'm not alone" by Michael Franti. I made a video showing some of the scenes that really moved me. People undergoing amputations not because of injuries they received but because they don't have access to antibiotics. When we are more concerned about getting bigger and better humvees over there instead of penicillin then we relinquish all rights to take a humanitarian high ground.

My video on the subject with the clips is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzIPSGhooP4

and the whole unedited movie (which I think should be required viewing):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=640329739153932134&q=i+know+i%27m+not+alone&total=2623&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

[pauleocon]

I didn't agree with Ron Paul about WOT at fist but believed in the rest of his stances. I thought if we could get back to the Constitution everything else would fall into place even the war. The more I listened and read and stuff the more it made sense. The more I paid attention to talking heads the more I realized what they were saying was propaganda. The stories were never the same and were always changing and insecure borders didn't help either. People said lots of stuff about Ron Paul and I didn't like what I was hearing. I started thinking maybe I couldn't support him but then the stuff they said just didn't fit his character so I started researching and understanding and knew he was right.

[J Free]

I supported the war in Iraq for three reasons.

I knew we had to get out of Saudi Arabia. It was the main reason binladen attacked - and the 12-yr containment of Saddam was not working. 9/11 simply made it necessary to end containment sooner rather than later.

We did have to get rid of Saddam. He was the only world leader to applaud 9/11. He had put out feelers to Al Qaeda and had serious contacts with some of the Egyptian Al Qaeda-linked groups. He WAS probably responsible for the first WTC bombing in 1993. And Khalid Sheikh Muhammad (the mastermind of 9/11) is related to Ramzi Yousef. Just too too risky. Indeed, I will bet there are connections we have not been told about.

And we did have to send a major message to some of these rogue states that have been playing the terrorist sponsor game for decades. The best message to an Arab mind - a massive stomp all over a fellow Arab leader who everyone agreed is a real menace.

That said, it was very easy to know when I stopped supporting the war. I stopped supporting the war when we achieved our mission. We overthrew Saddam. At that point (plus a one/two-year transition to a new govt - and I think Jay Garner could have done that), it was time to declare victory and come home. Sadly, too late for that now.

Secondarily I guess when it became obvious what a clusterf$#@ it was.

I always thought the notion of nation-building was garbage. Get things set up locally fast - and then let them work out the big national stuff.

I am less non-interventionist than Ron Paul. But having lived in the Middle East for six years, I also see the real value of non-interventionism in that region going forward.

Al Qaeda and its ilk IS still a major threat. And they will remain so for years after we pull out. But non-intervention will dry up the recruiting pool for them from among normal Muslims. I hope he does pull Michael Scheuer back in to deal with the Al Qaeda piece (via letters of marque/reprisal) harshly. It is the only way we can kill those who have already crossed the line. I do fear that Ron Paul is a bit too pacifist or nonchalant about the threat and is overselling non-intervention too much. After all, Al Qaeda doesn't even like Western embassies - or TV - or Western trade.

Someone really should put something together (a flyer or something) for people who supported the war but now are wondering. There is a huge difference between an old-fashioned hawk like me - and one of these neocon chickenhawk dreamers.

[McDermit]

my ex's mom was a two-time bush voter. She didn't want him the second time, but for whatever reason thought Kerry would be worse.

She now loves RP. Big Reagan fan too, and says RP reminds her of Reagan.

[kylejack]

Al Qaeda and its ilk IS still a major threat. And they will remain so for years after we pull out. But non-intervention will dry up the recruiting pool for them from among normal Muslims. I hope he does pull Michael Scheuer back in to deal with the Al Qaeda piece (via letters of marque/reprisal) harshly. It is the only way we can kill those who have already crossed the line. I do fear that Ron Paul is a bit too pacifist or nonchalant about the threat and is overselling non-intervention too much. After all, Al Qaeda doesn't even like Western embassies - or TV - or Western trade.
That's the point I've always tried to make to people. Bin Laden's recruitment is aided greatly by the fact that we've been meddling significantly in the Middle East for 50 years. We ought to unleash hell on the Bin Laden types when we can find them. We really should show the world that those who harm us suffer a world of pain. But generally we need to stop ruining the lives of Arab Muslims, stop turning their mothers and fathers and children and brothers into collateral damage. I can think of no surer way to turn someone to suicidal terrorism than killing one of their family members, and we're creating a lot of terrorists right now.

[justinc.1089]

I used to support it for these reasons:

1. WMD's. They lied and said there were WMD's, and why wouldn't I believe my own leaders? I was afraid Iraq might sell them to Al Queda and then there might be a bad chemical attack somewhere.

2. Links to Al Queda. I bought the idea that Saddam was supporting Al Queda just like the WMD's despite there being no proof shown.

Now it turns out there are no WMD's and there is no evidence Saddam was supporting Al Queda. And logically thinking that would make no sense, as Al Queda and other Islamic extremist groups posed a threat to his power, so why would he make them stronger? He had a nice thing going in Iraq and probably wouldn't want to help out rival groups.

Another thing is the number of people dying in Iraq. This is a situation where unless we attack Iran the fighting is going to keep going on. And I don't want to attack Iran.

We're also now policing a civil war between 3 different groups of people. We destroyed Iraq's military already, we're just fighting Iranian supported mercenaries now and policing a civil war, so that could go on for another decade.

The cost is also staggering. .5 Trillion dollars? To kill people? I think not.

If we must spend that money it could cure entire diseases and save MILLIONS of people's lives.

[bunklocoempire]

I "bought into the war" (not liking it) knowing it is about oil and thinking "of course we'll go in because tanks don't run on good vibes or sunshine" (national security, oil is power,way of life). NAIEVE! SELFISH! STUPID! IGNORANT! And seeing how things have progressed these past years I am truly sorry for my ignorance. Several things that have happend as the war progressed/progresses woke me up.
1. "Mission Accomplished Sign" Besides the obvious propaganda crap, what the hell was that!? I started paying real attention and knew I had blown it.
2. National Guard involvement, maybe I'm ignorant about this as well, but doesn't the Guard protect our borders/soil? I was dumbfounded.
3. Restrictions/engagement rules, our Troops are doing the best they can within the rules they are made to follow. The rules aren't condusive to getting in and getting out quickly with the least amount of casualties. This obviously wasn't war, it was policeing the world/hoarding oil. I was appalled.
4. Security Contractors/KRB others, how conveinant, another big wake up call. If our Armed Forces are spread so thin we can't handle things like trucking/supplying our troops we have no reason to be engaged in this "war". Cost is always given as to why Private Security Contractors have been brought in. This isn't condusive to quickly ending the "war" when you figure in the profiteering. I was sickend.
5. Katrina happens, much later I find out that the citizens guns are taken away yet Blackwater is armed and there on the ground. I am truly alarmed.
6. I accidently catch Ron Paul on a stinkin' comedy show of all places, and get hip to the constitution. Thank God for stinkin' comedy shows. Individual Liberties, our Right (and responsibility) to Bear Arms, following The Constitution, I will never again vote for "the lesser of two evils". Terrorism is still, and will always be with us. The more Liberties I/we get back (2nd Ammendment) the less there is to fear of terrorists. Along of course with following the whole Constitution and our fore fathers wisdom. 2nd Ammendment, the original homeland security. Thanks for asking, spread the word!

[lisajames96]

Looking for former Bush/War Supporters who now support Ron Paul. I want to know how, what, and why you changed your mind about Bush and the Wars. How did you loose your fear of Terrorists? What was it that made you change your mind?

Thanks

Initially I supported the war because I believed reports that the progression of the threat to the US had moved into Iraq and if they had WMD, that now surely Al Queda would do some serious damage(fearrr!). I trusted the word of the POTUS( a BAChristian:rolleyes: ) and the experts who substantiated what he, Cheney, and Rumsfeld said....
So fastforward to August 2007. I have been safely neo-conned into apathy about the suffering and long term financial mess the illegal war was causing. I am going about my good ol' American business when I was introduced to Ron Paul for economic and home schooling reasons. My exposure to anti war side was indirect. But it has made the biggest impact on my support for Dr. Paul.
Now whenever I hear the news about the war, or a soldier dying or Iraqis dying, I feel a deep guilt about supporting Bush. I actually struggle with serious anger for him and his staff, and I know I shouldn't let it turn to hate. But I feel duped to the highest degree. And I can't fault anyone but myself. I used to argue with family and friends over America's right to bomb Iraq and God will just have to have Mercy on the innocent bystanders(that is still the mindset of many neo-conned, and VV's that I talk to)...:(
In August heard Ron Paul in a debate on youtube and he explained that there was no threat to the US from Iraq, there was no WMD, there was no declaration of war, there was NO constitutional support for the Patriot Act, and finally(although I had heard it years before, but never believed it), there were special interest that would profit from the invasion and occupation of Iraq through oil. In another interview Ron Paul said that a Republican didn't have to feel guilty about being anti-war in terms of Iraq. yea! I felt let off the hook, and never looked back. I have had alot of "I told you so"s thrown my way. I am thick skinned and it's all worth it when Ron Paul is elected...
Sorry for all that, had to get it off my chest...i could go on all day, but I hope I answered the question...

[work2win]

Cliffs Notes at the bottom...


Long Version:

I come from the conservative side which is a big believer in self-defense and national defense. Conservatives respect strength and the willingness to take action against evil bad guys. This has made them easy targets for emotional war propaganda once the true neocons discovered the chink in their armor of logic and reason.

WMDs did not matter to me, nor other conservatives that much. They were merely an excuse to go after the evil dictator Sadaam. Hey, he's a bad guy and will likely end up supporting terrorism sometime in the future right?

Things started changing when we shifted gears from kicking ass and taking names to running a police action. Conservatives like kicking ass and taking names, they don't like police actions because they know the military is not meant for that.

Now enter the Anti-war people. Conservatives don't see the Anti-war people as anti-war, they see them as anti-defense. As much as I was fed up with Bush and Iraq, this kept me from seriously looking at Paul, even though I already liked him for his constitutional stance. Defense is paramount.

This changed when my brother told me I needed to give the Dr. a closer look. I was a pretty easy convert because I have an open mind and like to do research. I can't remember what videos I watched but I started comming around. The major tipping point was when I looked up "Iran 1953" on wikipedia. My jaw hit the floor. "The Power of Nightmares" really cemented things and I found it highly interesting. That video is not for those with a short attention span due to the sloooowww beginning and 3 hour length!



Summary for converting Conservatives:

-focus on how Paul is for a stronger, more effective, and SMARTER defense. A good place to start is his position on securing the border. Follow this up with how he voted to go after Bin Laden and crew. You might also mention that he was against Iraq because it would make us LESS safe

-Paul's position of declaring war and fighting to win, is actually how conservatives think wars should be fought. This go over pretty well.

-Iran 1953. This is a real eye opener for those who don't know exactly what went down. It is a great example of policy that was NOT SMART and has actually endangered us.

-Save the moral arguments for last, or possibly skip them altogether. Here you run the risk of invoking images of Jane Fonda again and losing the ground you just gained. It really depends on your audience.

[TVMH]

I find this to be a very interesting discussion.

I only support the use of violence/aggression for self-defense; if I can stay out of a fight, I will...has worked so far, since the only person I've ever punched is my brother, and that was in the stomach when he wouldn't leave me alone (I think I was 12).

Regardless, this issue of aggressive pre-emptive war is one of the main reasons that I have chosen to get involved in politics again.

In my mind, my money is being used to kill people that I don't even know, and most likely don't even threaten me.

Now, I do have a bit of conspiratorial side to me, so I have to recognize the possibility that this Presidential campaign is one huge charade designed to get people to expose themselves, rise up in arms, etc. (although my gut tells me otherwise...that Dr. Paul is as genuine as they come).

But I look at it this way...even if the campaign is a charade, my involvement helps increase public awareness, and therefore, public consciousness of what exactly is happening in the corridors of power.

If my actions can help stop our government from killing people that I don't even know, then I think that is a worthwhile endeavor.

Therefore, I must conclude that regardless of the genuineness of Dr. Paul (which I don't believe is in question), my participation in his campaign is a win-win.

That is all. :D

[Keith]

I have been very uncomfortable with invading Iraq from the very beginning because I happen to remember the first gulf war and the reasons given for not marching on to Bagdad (bloodbath).

I supported it though because I fell for the propaganda. It is a very hard thing to admit. I think of myself as an intelligent person, but I think we are all somewhat subseptable to propaganda.

Probably the biggest factor that made me wake up and oppose the war completely was when I read the book The 20th Century A People's History by Howard Zinn. Zinn seems to be a bit of a socialist, but the way he described the Vietnam war sounded very familiar to me. The parallels between that war and this one were unmistakable.

I reached the conclusion that we were wrong to go in and we should get out of there because the longer we stayed the more harm we would cause.

A few months later I ran across Ron Paul who said the same thing. I came here because of that peace message. I then learned about the principle of Liberty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I). I can't imagine going back now.

[ladyliberty]

I used to support it for these reasons:

1. Wmds. They lied and said there were Wmds, and why wouldn't I believe my own leaders? I was afraid Iraq might sell them to Al Qaeda and then there might be a bad chemical attack somewhere.

2. Links to Al Qaeda. I bought the idea that Saddam was supporting Al Qaeda just like the Wmds despite there being no proof shown.

Now it turns out there are no Wmds and there is no evidence Saddam was supporting Al Qaeda. And logically thinking that would make no sense, as Al Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups posed a threat to his power, so why would he make them stronger? He had a nice thing going in Iraq and probably wouldn't want to help out rival groups.

Another thing is the number of people dying in Iraq. This is a situation where unless we attack Iran the fighting is going to keep going on. And I don't want to attack Iran.

We're also now policing a civil war between 3 different groups of people. We destroyed Iraq's military already, we're just fighting Iranian supported mercenaries now and policing a civil war, so that could go on for another decade.

The cost is also staggering. .5 Trillion dollars? To kill people? I think not.

If we must spend that money it could cure entire diseases and save MILLIONS of people's lives.

I took Dr. Paul's advice and actually read every single page of the 911 Commission Report - that was what changed my mind 180 degrees about our present Occupation of Iraq. Al Qaeda cells are the cockroaches of the world. Now when you want to get rid of cockroaches, do you go out and spray your whole entire neighborhood to get rid of them - or do you focus your efforts on your own house and prevent them from coming through your doors and infesting your home?

Dr. Paul keeps talking about securing our borders - not just the ridiculous airport security type stuff we have now, but REALLY TRULY securing our borders and that is exactly what we need right now - then begin the Al Quadea extermination process right here !!! The way it is now we are "disarming " little old ladies of their knitting needles and antipersperant and letting everybody and their pregnant girfriends flood our borders. Homeland Security is a JOKE! Get rid of Homeland Security and bring back REAL Security!!!

[lisajames96]

Dr. Paul keeps talking about securing our borders - not just the ridiculous airport security type stuff we have now, but REALLY TRULY securing our borders and that is exactly what we need right now - then begin the Al Quadea extermination process right here !!! The way it is now we are "disarming " little old ladies of their knitting needles and antipersperant and letting everybody and their pregnant girfriends flood our borders. Homeland Security is a JOKE! Get rid of Homeland Security and bring back REAL Security!!!

...starts slow clap... Awesome!

[Primbs]

I became concerned when the congress wouldn't declare war on Iraq. If it is that important and you have the courage of your convictions, the least they could do is declare war on Iraq. Bush and congress did neither.

I was tired of our planes getting shot at flying in the no fly zone. Weakness can be dangerously provocative if we didn't respond forcefully. Our floundering in Iraq is making us look weak again.

We have to fight them over there, so we won't fight them over here.

Well we are fighting them over here with all the terror cells that we bust. There is no point in fighting them over there if we leave our back door open, borders open and the terrorists can flood into our cities.

When we start prosecuting our own marines for murder when they are going door to door and hand to hand fighting in the streets of Iraq, then we may have lost our way.

The enemy all dresses as civilians and our guys have no way to figure out who to shoot. Yet they get shot at as they pass every third house. Who are you suppose to fire at. The bad guys hide in the shadows, take a shot, kill our guys and slip back into the shadow.

We can't fight with our hands tied. The rules of engagement are bad. A navy seal from Afghanistan makes that claim.

http://www.amazon.com/Lone-Survivor-Eyewitness-Account-Operation/dp/0316067598/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7657264-7621711?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192546100&sr=1-1

A really bad way to fight a war.

As Ron Paul says, either get in it to win it, or get out.

Then there is the overall strategic picture. Iraq is but one battle in an overall war against Radical Islam. There could be a different strategy, a more indirect approach might be more successful.

[klamath]

This is long but it shows my thought process.

I have been a Republican since I was 14 years old, typing up my own Reagan posters in 1976. I ranted every time I heard statements that the phony baloney actor cowboy from California would never win a general election. When the impossible happened and he was elected, I watched a good portion of Reagan's agenda go down to defeat against a Democratic Congress. I dreamed if only we could get the presidency and the congress, we could really lower the deficit, cut back on the government's size and intrusiveness, and make sure that US troops were never sent to a war that wasn't in direct defense of our nation, with their hands tied and given a mission they could never complete. In the year 2000, by 537 votes, my dream came true.
How well I have been rewarded;
Mark Foley preaching of morality while attempting to have a homosexual affair with a page and being covered up by those in power.
Finding out Newt Gingrich was having an affair at the same time as Clinton.
Listening to Rush Limbaugh from the day he started his talk radio on KFBK ridiculing people of the libertarian beliefs on drugs and then finding out he was smuggling and using illegal drugs himself.
Having to listen to Senator Craig try and talk his way out of guilty plea in a restroom stall bust.
Watching Bush and the Republican Congress create a huge deficit with pork barreling and spending to increase the power of the federal government.
Disregard for the Bill of Rights.
I have watched young men and women fighting and dying in a war with no clear objective, being sent on multiple deployments, then being hit with a stop loss when their enlistment’s were up and sent again to play the game of Russian Roulette in the 135 degree blazing sands. Even when they finally finish serving their country and try and build a life after combat they receive letters recalling them to active duty to serve yet another tour so that the politicians that claim that our country is in an all out fight for it’s survival can avoid instituting the draft because that might be unpopular and they might lose their job.
All the while I am choking out excuses against critics.
I voted for Bush in '04 because how could I vote for a guy that openly admitted to committing atrocities in Vietnam while he was an officer and should have had the leadership and moral courage to stop it?
I have to admit I supported the war, which I can back up with a DOD DD form 214 showing my service in Iraq. Both Clinton and Bush told me of the WMD. God help our civil liberties if Saddam drops one of those on a US city, I thought. I served my tour at the same time my son in the Marines was in Falujah and it was after it was decided the WMDs would never be found. Many air missions I stood by my helicopter and saluted with tears in my eyes as the body bags containing the remains of my fellow US GI's (some weighting less than 30 pounds) were loaded on my helicopter.
Coming home from one of these missions, I read the string of increasingly frantic emails from my wife about the SuperStallion helicopter that had gone down in the western Iraqi desert. She was reading the partial list of fatalities and recognized the names of our son's Marine buddies on it. But God spared our son as him and a buddy were moved to Chock 2 at the last minute, sparing him the fate of 31 of his company comrades.
On one air mission as our flight of two passed over an road that was a MSR (Main supply route) that was torn and ragged from IED craters Chock two sighted a battered white jeep parked along the road. They diverted to investigate and caught a man digging a hole in the road, an almost sure sign he was planting an IED. When he caught sight of the American Blackhawk helicopter he jumped into the jeep and raced away. Chock two fired a string of tracers in front of him and forced him to stop. Our air mission commander felt we had to hold this guy until American infantry could investigate and question him. The radio on our helicopter wasn’t working so we took over guarding the jeep as chock two climbed to altitude to make a radio call. I was the right hand crewchief gunner and it was up to me to protect us against any action this man might take. Our blackhawk was a passenger ship and we had a mix of 14 Iraqi civilians and American troops aboard. Me and my M60 was all that stood between us and a possible RPG attack and my air mission commander warned me to keep this man covered at all times as we orbited. The man dismounted the vehicle as well as his wife, a son about 10 and a daughter about 3. I find myself in the situation I most feared, having to make a judgement call like this. Had I not been one to argue with instructors about illegal orders I would have taken the easy way out and just kept my weapon trained on this family as I was ordered. Since all it would take was a slight bump of the trigger to unlease the first of 300 rounds of 7.62mm ammo I made the moral judgement call to lower the weapon. I could clearly see the man and knew I could react if he went for a weapon. For an hour we orbited and suddenly the man said something to his wife and son and they got into the jeep. Picking up the little girl the man headed for the drivers seat. I informed my pilot and AMC that they were attempting to leave. My pilot brought the helicopter to a hover, twenty feet in front and broadside across the road. Our rotor wash blasted the man and little girl now standing in front of the radiator grill. For long minutes I stared at this man but what I was seeing was the clear, dark, scared, yet uncrying eyes of the little girl as her dark hair, driven by our rotor wash, whipped across her face. Though my grand daughters are blue eyed and blond but of the same age, they are what I was seeing in those eyes and face. “Is this how I am protecting my own. My God this is insane!” I suddenly thought in anguish.
This image sticks with me to this day.

As I crisscrossed over thousands of square miles of Iraq I had high hopes for the country becoming a free and prosperous country. I was in Iraq for both of the first two Elections and hoped with all my soul that they would quit killing each other and of course us. I wanted so desperately to secure the borders so foreign fighters couldn’t get in and kill wantonly but realized this would never be possible. I believe that at least fifty percent of the people supported our presence to protect them from the killings but as we were unable to protect them from the bombings that killed them, hundreds a day we just became more of a detriment and they now believe we are attracting the killing to their country. Back home I followed the news every day just hoping for a glimmer of hope that the violence was abating. I listened in vain.
The war we should have fought is with Osama Bin Laden and his small group of radical Muslims like Congressmen Ron Paul voted to do. The battle of Iraq was a mistake of both the Democrats and Republicans that voted to go to war. Bush as Commander in Chief failed, unlike great generals in history who knew when they had engaged the wrong strategy in a war and had sense enough to withdraw and regroup and rethink their strategies. To do otherwise and the soldiers see that they are dying in vain that leader rapidly loses the support of his men and even more so when he is giving orders from the rear and they know he never served in the foxholes in his youth.
We need to get out of the Middle East and deprive Al Qaeda the rallying and recruitment point of American occupation. If some are thinking I have become an appeaser and pacifist and a cut and runner you could not be more wrong. It is my firm belief that all things in this universe are about force and counterforce and the struggle to survive. War and terrorism, which are one in the same, will always be in this universe and I will fight for my freedom and right to live without hesitation however it is a ghastly horrible thing that can bring out the worse elements of human nature. If we can find different strategies that cost less in human life and defuse the constant human struggles where it is possible and where they involve us we should go that route.

People have told me “I told you so” about voting for Bush but there is no doubt in my mind if Gore or Kerry had been elected we would have been still involved in this awful war. I feel I was wrong about the war and have to admit my mistake. As I looked around for a leader to replace Bush I had to go back in history and see who was making sounder judgments during the time of 9/11 hysteria and found it wasn’t any of the well known Democrats and Republicans. That person was Congressman Ron Paul
Ron Paul is a man that has been married to the same woman for 50 years and stands by his principals even if it means standing against his party. He is a congressman that raises most of his contributions from small donors because big money knows his votes cannot be bought. He stands by his oath to defend the constitution, even when it is not popular. Paul voted against going into Iraq when most all America wanted to kick ass for he alone amongst the Republicans and most of the Democrats running had the foresight of what it would lead to and knew it was wrong to began with.