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View Full Version : Day laborers, prostitutes and tourists




Brian4Liberty
04-27-2010, 09:31 PM
In light of the new AZ illegal immigration law, compare and contrast.

One of the concerns with the new AZ immigration law is how it will be implemented. Will they they stop people for no other reason than they are suspected of being an illegal immigrant? How would they know?

Hopefully we can all agree that just stopping people randomly is unconstitutional. And even basing a check/stop based on dress, appearance, and language or accent is not good. People on vacation may meet all of those criteria. Do we want the Police to hassle tourists (or new citizens)? Hopefully not.

And how about prostitution laws? Are women randomly stopped on the street to potentially arrest them for prostitution? What are the criteria? Location? Dress? Specific actions? Undercover police solicitations? How would that compare to day laborers that might be illegal immigrants? Would standing in front of Home Depot and running up to pick-ups looking for work constitute a reason to check status?

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 09:36 PM
Why wasn't everyone screaming about federal immigration laws BEFORE this new law passed??? I don't get it. All it does is give the state the permission to enforce the very immigration laws that the freakin federal government was SUPPOSED to be enforcing in the first place!

phill4paul
04-27-2010, 09:40 PM
Why wasn't everyone screaming about federal immigration laws BEFORE this new law passed??? I don't get it. All it does is give the state the permission to enforce the very immigration laws that the freakin federal government was SUPPOSED to be enforcing in the first place!

No Deborah you don't "get it." The law allows L.E, to arrest anyone, citizens included, until they can prove their citizenship.

That is WRONG.

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 09:42 PM
No Deborah you don't "get it." The law allows L.E, to arrest anyone, citizens included, until they can prove their citizenship.

That is WRONG.

Really? Show me where in the new law it states that.

pcosmar
04-27-2010, 09:47 PM
Why wasn't everyone screaming about federal immigration laws BEFORE this new law passed??? I don't get it. All it does is give the state the permission to enforce the very immigration laws that the freakin federal government was SUPPOSED to be enforcing in the first place!

NO, It creates(mandates) the Real ID. Folks had rejected the Real ID.

solution
Ignore enforcement,,create a problem,, get Real ID passed.

They ignored all the other possible (and legal) options.

peacepotpaul
04-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Why wasn't everyone screaming about federal immigration laws BEFORE this new law passed??? I don't get it. All it does is give the state the permission to enforce the very immigration laws that the freakin federal government was SUPPOSED to be enforcing in the first place!

which would render it useless if the federal government changes their definition and standards of legal immigrants. (ie, if amnesty was passed on a federal level, AZ can't do anything, unless they want to create their own idea of State citizen in contrast to the federal immigration criteria)

Brian4Liberty
04-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Why wasn't everyone screaming about federal immigration laws BEFORE this new law passed??? I don't get it. All it does is give the state the permission to enforce the very immigration laws that the freakin federal government was SUPPOSED to be enforcing in the first place!

There have been plenty of open borders people around here for a long time. The establishment media has been more than happy with the non-enforcement of Federal immigration laws, therefore it hasn't had as much attention.

I am not sure why this would be so much different from all of the other existing laws that might result in people being checked-out (i.e. prostitution, drug dealers, muggers, lurkers, etc...)

peacepotpaul
04-27-2010, 09:53 PM
NO, It creates(mandates) the Real ID. Folks had rejected the Real ID.

solution
Ignore enforcement,,create a problem,, get Real ID passed.

They ignored all the other possible (and legal) options.

then, can't they ignore enforcement again for Real ID?

I mean, it's probably not ignore, as much as it's outright rejecting it for its intents and purposes!

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 09:58 PM
NO, It creates(mandates) the Real ID. Folks had rejected the Real ID.

solution
Ignore enforcement,,create a problem,, get Real ID passed.

They ignored all the other possible (and legal) options.

Folks may have rejected Real ID, but it has already passed. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:H.R.418:

It just hasn't been implemented as many states are fighting the cost of it. The fact remains - the federal gov't had a responsibility to enforce immigration laws and they failed miserably. Why? Because they intend to merge us with Mexico so why bother? AZ is trying to find a way to enforce immigration laws.

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 10:01 PM
which would render it useless if the federal government changes their definition and standards of legal immigrants. (ie, if amnesty was passed on a federal level, AZ can't do anything, unless they want to create their own idea of State citizen in contrast to the federal immigration criteria)

I personally think this is the unintended consequence of AZ's new law.

peacepotpaul
04-27-2010, 10:03 PM
I personally think this is the unintended consequence of AZ's new law.

then the question is, could they, or any State go further to close such a loophole (unilaterally without federal government's permission)?

phill4paul
04-27-2010, 10:05 PM
Folks may have rejected Real ID, but it has already passed. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:H.R.418:

It just hasn't been implemented as many states are fighting the cost of it. The fact remains - the federal gov't had a responsibility to enforce immigration laws and they failed miserably. Why? Because they intend to merge us with Mexico so why bother? AZ is trying to find a way to enforce immigration laws.

And AZ is paving the way for a Worker I.D. card which will supercede a REAL I.D.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html

Way to go AZ.

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 10:06 PM
then the question is, could they, or any State go further to close such a loophole (unilaterally without federal government's permission)?

And become a police state? To what end? People will just leave the state.

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 10:08 PM
And AZ is paving the way for a Worker I.D. card which will supercede a REAL I.D.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html

Way to go AZ.

How is this any different than the current "green card"?

Edit: I see, it's for ALL workers not just immigrant workers. Uggh....it seems no different than Real ID.

Brian4Liberty
04-27-2010, 10:08 PM
So people, do prostitution laws result in too many random checks of people? How about drug laws?

tropicangela
04-27-2010, 10:09 PM
I'm really dizzy around here lately. The same people keep making the same arguments over and over and over.... new threads are made to make points... now bets are being wagered... I am curious to hear Ron Paul's take on this as others are. Good night all, maybe in time some more will be clear.

Deborah K
04-27-2010, 10:29 PM
So people, do prostitution laws result in too many random checks of people? How about drug laws?

No one will respond because the answer is obvious and you win the argument. ;)

tropicangela
04-27-2010, 10:37 PM
So people, do prostitution laws result in too many random checks of people? How about drug laws?

Yes. They do.

peacepotpaul
04-27-2010, 10:39 PM
And become a police state? To what end? People will just leave the state.

good, to each state its own

Brian4Liberty
04-27-2010, 10:44 PM
Yes. They do.

Both? I think women are pretty safe from false accusations of prostitution (and police checks). On the other hand, drug laws are abused sometimes.

tropicangela
04-27-2010, 11:09 PM
Both? I think women are pretty safe from false accusations of prostitution (and police checks). On the other hand, drug laws are abused sometimes.

Should either be a crime? Any checks of either one are wrongful no? Of course, you asked if it's resulted in too many. So, one is too many =)

Don't Tread on Mike
04-27-2010, 11:21 PM
good, to each state its own

unless they pass a law that requires you to become a citezen of that state and be forced to wait in line to be a legal immigrant :). Imagine if it ever came to that....