What is the official Ron Paul Republican stance to this AZ border crisis?

[Don't Tread on Mike]

It seems to me that the libertarian stance is open border policy and the republican stance is lock up the border and throw out the key.

I am a Ron Paul republican, who like Ron believes in the original republican platform. My take on this issue is to make legal immigration easier and to encourage any illegals to register for citizenship.If there is honestly that many illegals in our country then something is wrong with our immigration process.


Also, why haven't we considered adopting Mexico as the 51st state in the United States? Could that be a possible solution to this problem, or is it only a minority of Mexicans that want to come to America?

[silus]

Ron Paul has always emphasized the economic issues ultimately solving the immigration problem. In the short term he supports enforcing current law and increasing border security. I don't know the official position on the AZ bill, but i'd bet anything he would be against it. Frankly i'm beginning to wonder what is taking so long on him taking a public stance. Maybe I missed it...

[peacepotpaul]

Also, why haven't we considered adopting Mexico as the 51st state in the United States? Could that be a possible solution to this problem, or is it only a minority of Mexicans that want to come to America?

we have, it's called SPP, NAFTA, NAU.

[mikem317]

Also, why haven't we considered adopting Mexico as the 51st state in the United States? Could that be a possible solution to this problem, or is it only a minority of Mexicans that want to come to America?

The empire grows! ;)

[Vessol]

I wasn't ware "libertarian" "Ron Paul Republican" were mutually exclusive..

[dannno]

Ron Paul says AZ has the right to make the law under states rights, but he disagrees with it (presumably because enforcing it violates the US Constitution).

Judge Nap says AZ is turning into a Nazi style police state and they are going to get their asses sued for passing this unconstitutional garbage.

[Vessol]

Yet we are somehow split down the middle on this issue..

[dannno]

Yet we are somehow split down the middle on this issue..

Some people refuse to admit it is a Constitutional issue. Their vision is narrowly focused on those damn illegal immigrants.

Sort of like Hannity with the Patriot Act. My dad STILL won't admit The Patriot Act is unconstitutional cause of Hannity and the damn terrists.

[RonPaulCult]

Ron Paul says AZ has the right to make the law under states rights, but he disagrees with it (presumably because enforcing if violates the US Constitution).

Judge Nap says AZ is turning into a Nazi style police state and they are going to get their asses sued for passing this unconstitutional garbage.

Whoa whoa - where/when did Ron Paul say this? Or are you guessing that's what he'll say.

[dannno]

Whoa whoa - where/when did Ron Paul say this? Or are you guessing that's what he'll say.

Re-read the statement I made, it's pretty clear. For you to ask the second question isn't fair considering the actual statement I made (re-read to find out why)


But ya, the states have the right to make an unconstitutional law, then citizens can bring it to the higher courts for appeal if it is unconstitutional. It's not good to have an unconstitutional law on the books, because it costs too much money when people sue the government.

[specsaregood]

Also, why haven't we considered adopting Mexico as the 51st state in the United States?

Mexico has 31 states of its own, IIRC.
So really you mean making new 51-81states in the United States. :)
Making it a single 51st state would mean they would end up with about 1/3 of the House of Reps due to their size.

[Sentient Void]

I haven;t heard Ron say anything in particular... but I'd be willing to bet that while he believes in states rights, he believes also in the constitution which is the supreme law of the land - and thus would not believe in this AZ bill morally nor practically.

As someone said above (and I agree with him), abolish the welfare state and you fix the problem of illegal immigration for the most part.

[dannno]

I haven;t heard Ron say anything in particular... but I'd be willing to bet that while he believes in states rights, he believes also in the constitution which is the supreme law of the land - and thus would not believe in this AZ bill morally nor practically.

Precisely, he is against it for practical and moral reasons, but believes that the state has the right to make the law. Let it be challenged in court if the lawmakers are that adamant. It's a procedural thing, it's not good to just go in and mandate what laws states can and cannot make pre-emptively.



As someone said above (and I agree with him), abolish the welfare state and you fix the problem of illegal immigration for the most part.

Yup.

This AZ bill is a horrible solution.

[pcosmar]

This is another case of "Do something,,even if it is wrong".

people want something done about illegal Immigration.
But instead of doing any of the right things,,
Prosecuting employers
Ending welfare benefits
Arming citizens and having the militia repel invasion
Securing the border

They have instead passed yet another (infective ) law and given more power to the Police State.
The people soundly defeated the Real ID in the past, but this law imposes it.

Stupid people.
:(

[wgadget]

The law does NOT mean that police will go around randomly arresting people who "look like illegals." Only when someone is caught in another crime will they have their immigration status checked.

These illegals are encroaching on other people's properties and lives, which is wrong. Their being here illegally makes them criminals as soon as they cross the border, showing a total lack of respect for our rule of law. I do believe that it's the FEDS that should bear the brunt of our wrath, however, not the people who are just doing what they've been allowed to do all these years.

What a mess...

[TCE]

Since the question has already been answered, I am going to play devil's advocate. If you ask many illegals, they say they want the jobs for a high wage in America, they don't care about the welfare state. Heck, a lot don't even know what it is. So, how will abolishing the welfare state detract from illegal immigration when so many come for the jobs?

[AlexMerced]

Since the question has already been answered, I am going to play devil's advocate. If you ask many illegals, they say they want the jobs for a high wage in America, they don't care about the welfare state. Heck, a lot don't even know what it is. So, how will abolishing the welfare state detract from illegal immigration when so many come for the jobs?

It's not about detracting them from coming, but making sure that they don't drain taxpayer money. Although getting rid of welfare will detract the unproductive immigration... again not all immigrants come with the same motivations, incentives, etc.

Like anything, you got to look at the details, but basically the incentive structure without welfare would really only incentivize people coming to work to immigrate, especially if you kill the drug war

Kill the Drug War and Welfare, and most of the immigrations problem dissapears, enter in free trade with other nations like cuba, get rid of NAFTA and opt for Real free trade, then your really cooking.

[RonPaulCult]

Re-read the statement I made, it's pretty clear. For you to ask the second question isn't fair considering the actual statement I made (re-read to find out why)


But ya, the states have the right to make an unconstitutional law, then citizens can bring it to the higher courts for appeal if it is unconstitutional. It's not good to have an unconstitutional law on the books, because it costs too much money when people sue the government.

What's not clear is WHEN and WHERE Ron Paul made this statement. I ask because I've been looking for a true statement from him on this - and I have yet to find one.

Could you please tell me when he said this? Was he being interviewed? Was he quoted in a paper? Facebook/Twitter?

I'd like to see or hear it for myself. Nothing against you or your trustworthiness.

[peacepotpaul]

Ron Paul says AZ has the right to make the law under states rights, but he disagrees with it (presumably because enforcing it violates the US Constitution).


I'm sorry, what???

How can you have a right to make a law that can't be enforced, or when enforced is unConstitutional?




Judge Nap says AZ is turning into a Nazi style police state and they are going to get their asses sued for passing this unconstitutional garbage.

Sued by whom? Immigrants? Federal government?
(and if they do, which side would you be on?)

[John Taylor]

Ron Paul says AZ has the right to make the law under states rights, but he disagrees with it (presumably because enforcing it violates the US Constitution).

Judge Nap says AZ is turning into a Nazi style police state and they are going to get their asses sued for passing this unconstitutional garbage.

Danno, I propose we make a gentleman's bet, I'll wager on my state, that the AZ law will NOT be struck down, and you can bet on California, that it will be struck down and open borders will continue.

What do you say?

[Don't Tread on Mike]

Mexico has 31 states of its own, IIRC.
So really you mean making new 51-81states in the United States. :)
Making it a single 51st state would mean they would end up with about 1/3 of the House of Reps due to their size.

Yea, as you might have figured I didn't think that one through. I just never heard it suggested, and thought it was long over due for some lip service

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

What the hell? There are still unconverted Republicans around here? I am outraged... someone pm Conza and let him know his missionary work is unfinished.

[JeNNiF00F00]

The law does NOT mean that police will go around randomly arresting people who "look like illegals." Only when someone is caught in another crime will they have their immigration status checked.

These illegals are encroaching on other people's properties and lives, which is wrong. Their being here illegally makes them criminals as soon as they cross the border, showing a total lack of respect for our rule of law. I do believe that it's the FEDS that should bear the brunt of our wrath, however, not the people who are just doing what they've been allowed to do all these years.

What a mess...

What exactly constitutes a crime? Each individual breaks laws consistently everyday without knowing they are doing so. Speeding, not using turning signal, having a broken tail light, license plate light not working etc., are laws that are routinely broken and enforced by the police. All constitute as a trap to then go about asking for your papers, as they use these things for reasons to search your car as well.

Think really hard about it. I have been pulled so many times for ridiculous reasons, with rarely getting any tickets of any kind. Just "warnings". The last time I got pulled was in another car that a police was "Profiling" and looking for a car just like the one I was in, with a bunch of guys inside. Thankfully it was just us girls. Throw in the papers thing and they can search your car without a warrant after they arrest you for not carrying any(because youre white and think you are invincible to this law).

[Daamien]

But ya, the states have the right to make an unconstitutional law, then citizens can bring it to the higher courts for appeal if it is unconstitutional. It's not good to have an unconstitutional law on the books, because it costs too much money when people sue the government.

The problem is that you need "standing" to bring the constitutionality of the law into question. In other words, the bill must have personally affected you. Therefore, to bring the bill to the Supreme Court (without the court unilaterally exercising judicial review which it rarely does), you will have to be arrested under suspicion of being an undocumented illegal alien in Arizona. I'm sure the ACLU or some other group will represent anyone who is arrested under this suspicion pro bono, but there will a long time between the passage of the Arizona bill and an official ruling on constitutionality from the Supreme Court during which time I suspect quite a few people will be unfairly arrested.

[silus]

Is Ron Paul going to take a public position on this? WTF?

[TCE]

It's not about detracting them from coming, but making sure that they don't drain taxpayer money. Although getting rid of welfare will detract the unproductive immigration... again not all immigrants come with the same motivations, incentives, etc.

Like anything, you got to look at the details, but basically the incentive structure without welfare would really only incentivize people coming to work to immigrate, especially if you kill the drug war

Kill the Drug War and Welfare, and most of the immigrations problem dissapears, enter in free trade with other nations like cuba, get rid of NAFTA and opt for Real free trade, then your really cooking.

Great points. My only question is, wouldn't there still be a problem though? I completely agree, without the welfare state, a chunk of immigration will stop, but what about the percentage that comes for the jobs?

[TCE]

Is Ron Paul going to take a public position on this? WTF?

He doesn't really need to if he doesn't want to. Officially, as a Congressman, he has no jurisdiction over Arizona anyway, so it is in his best interest to stay out of this one.

[RM918]

As far as immigration goes, Paul's for securing the borders if I remember. I don't know if he's for making legal immigration easier (But since legal immigration is a bureaucratic disaster already I think he'd be for it). He wants to get rid of 'anchor babies' by getting rid of the 'If you're born in the U.S., you're a citizen' thing, and he wants to get rid of minimum wage laws so that American citizens can actually compete with the aliens.

[Vessol]

Is Ron Paul going to take a public position on this? WTF?

I'm hoping that he just focuses on what needs to be focused on the most: Ending the Fed and ending our wars abroad.

Not some silly immigration topic.

[Ninja Homer]

This may answer your question... or you might say, "wait, what was he talking about there at the end?" :)

YouTube - Ron Paul on Illegal Immigration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y3zEP75kFM)

[tpreitzel]

This may answer your question... or you might say, "wait, what was he talking about there at the end?" :)


Well, maybe you ought to go home ... If a suspect can't respond in conversational English, well, maybe they ought to go home. :)

[low preference guy]

In the end of the video above, Ron Paul suggests (I'm pretty sure he thinks that) that they should be asked about their status once they committed a crime. He mentions that's politically incorrect for some people.

He doesn't touch however the topic of whether they should be asked about their status if they have not been arrested for a crime.

[silus]

I'm hoping that he just focuses on what needs to be focused on the most: Ending the Fed and ending our wars abroad.

Not some silly immigration topic.
Its not silly when this topic divides the forum dedicated to supporting him...!

[LibertyMage]

End drug prohibition.
End the immigrant welfare.
End the minimum wage.
Open the borders.

Anything else is an argument for empowerment of the state to take care of our problems which will ultimately fail. This is a lesson libertarians, conservatives and Republicans should have learned by now.

[Baptist]

In my opinion the government-media complex is just trying to make us bicker amongst ourselves. They are convincing blacks and minorities that the Tea Parties are racist. They are convincing conservatives and Republicans that the Mexicans are ruining the country. This is all divide and conquer so that we don't unite against Washington.

[JP2010]

The law does NOT mean that police will go around randomly arresting people who "look like illegals." Only when someone is caught in another crime will they have their immigration status checked.

These illegals are encroaching on other people's properties and lives, which is wrong. Their being here illegally makes them criminals as soon as they cross the border, showing a total lack of respect for our rule of law. I do believe that it's the FEDS that should bear the brunt of our wrath, however, not the people who are just doing what they've been allowed to do all these years.

What a mess...

And this is exactly what those people who are up in arms about this law are failing to get through their thick skulls. They'd rather feign outrage, or they're actually outraged due to their own ignorance.

[rprprs]

In the end of the video above, Ron Paul suggests (I'm pretty sure he thinks that) that they should be asked about their status once they committed a crime. He mentions that's politically incorrect for some people.

He doesn't touch however the topic of whether they should be asked about their status if they have not been arrested for a crime.

Yeah, pretty much. No matter which side of the argument you take here, I think it is more than fair to note that (in the video) Ron frames his remarks in terms of "committing a crime", "breaking the law" and "having been arrested". Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is a much narrower construct than the "lawful contact" referenced in the AZ law, wherein no crime or arrest may have been established or occurred.

[orenbus]

Not sure if anyone has posted this video yet, a interesting comment Ron Paul made at 7:40

YouTube - RON PAUL 101 - IMMIGRATION (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfJFcSF80dE)

Here is a quote from Ron Paul during the 2008 campaign ABC debates, for those that can't load the video:


"I get a little bit worried when we talk about the tamper proof ID for Illegals or Immigrants because how do you do that? Anybody that is an immigrant or looks like an immigrant would have to have an ID and then you can't discriminate so then everybody is going to have to have the ID. I think it's opening the door for the national ID, we should be very very careful about that."

And at 5:08


"Because of our economic conditions we do need workers, but if we had a truely free market economy the illegal immigrats would not be the scapegoat. We would probably need them and they would be acceptable, but because of the economic conditions they have become the scapegoat."

[ClayTrainor]

Great contribution orenbus :)

[Todd]

Judge Nap sums it up nicely.

YouTube - Arizona Immigration Law Backlash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElcL282ehqs&feature=player_embedded)