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LibForestPaul
04-27-2010, 07:17 PM
If you believe in "tightening the border" yet do not believe in Real ID, please explain your lunacy.

The Canada – United States border, officially known as the International Boundary, is the longest border in the world. The terrestrial boundary (including small portions of maritime boundaries on the Atlantic, Pacific, and Arctic coasts, as well as the Great Lakes) is 8,891 kilometres (5,525 mi) long, including 2,475 kilometres (1,538 mi) shared with Alaska. It is Canada's only land border, and Canada is by far the largest nation having a land border with only one country.


Total Coastline, US, all states:
States Total 12,383 miles

The Mexico – United States border is the international border between Mexico and the United States. It runs from San Diego, California, and Tijuana, Baja California, in the west to Matamoros, Tamaulipas, and Brownsville, Texas, in the east, and traverses a variety of terrains, ranging from major urban areas to inhospitable deserts. From the Gulf of Mexico it follows the course of the Rio Grande (Río Bravo del Norte) to the border crossing at El Paso, Texas, and Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua; westward from that binational conurbation it crosses vast tracts of the Sonoran and Chihuahuan Desert, the Colorado River Delta, westward to the binational conurbation of San Diego and Tijuana before reaching the Pacific Ocean.

The border's total length is 3,169 km (1,969 miles), according to figures given by the International Boundary and Water Commission.[1] It is the most frequently crossed international border in the world, with about 250 million people crossings every year.[2]

Sentient Void
04-27-2010, 07:20 PM
I say get rid of the welfare state first, then open-up immigration.

AlexMerced
04-27-2010, 07:20 PM
I hear ya, but a lot of the people on this board who advocate those views don't represent themselves as libertarians, usually as Constitutionalist or Conservatives (which is maybe worse a term)

I can't think of many who call themselves Libertarians and think Immigration is the actual problem, versus a symptom of the larger problem of a weak economy or they think immigration caused the weak economy which is a view I've come to the conclusion they'll never give up.

So let's focus on auditing the fed and electing Peter Schiff... cause we all agree on that

AlexMerced
04-27-2010, 07:21 PM
i say get rid of the welfare state first, then open-up immigration.

ftw

mikem317
04-27-2010, 07:25 PM
I say get rid of the welfare state first, then open-up immigration.

Bingo.

Although many older Americans have grown dependent on the promises made to them from administrations past. Everyone that has paid into these systems should have their monies returned or services rendered. I'd rather have all the Medicaid/SS taxes refunded to me.

Once the welfare state is destroyed, the immigration problem fixes itself.

paulitics
04-27-2010, 07:26 PM
End the welfare, crack down on employers who break the law, and make immigration much easier for those who want to come here to work. No need for a border fence in my opinion.

peacepotpaul
04-27-2010, 07:27 PM
I agree, you cannot say Americans deserve freedom, privacy, States rights, but in the same breath say that they should be free from immigration, or immigrants are not allowed the same freedoms (or it's enforceable).

you cannot say that immigrants need to be prevented or deported, or cut off from our system, without using a federal ID, which was how immigration (legal vs illegal) was defined to begin with.

if you believe "State IDs are good enough" you must concede that if some states want to tolerate and accept illegal immigrants, the federal government cannot force them otherwise (in effect saying that states can break immigration laws).

How can a State decide who gets to receive driver licenses or IDs, unless either
a) they invent their own method of legal immigration
b) they comply with federal ID & immigration law
?

peacepotpaul
04-27-2010, 07:28 PM
End the welfare, crack down on employers who break the law, and make immigration much easier for those who want to come here to work. No need for a border fence in my opinion.

does anybody believe that real ID may make border fences and patrolling unnecessary? (we'll keep the doors open, but we'll check on you later)


or vice versa?

mikem317
04-27-2010, 07:30 PM
REAL ID is dead.

MN Patriot
04-27-2010, 07:30 PM
Kind of funny how poor Mexicans/central Americans are coming here, while rich Americans are moving to Panama and Costa Rica.

Yes, like a previous poster said, fix the welfare state first.

Vessol
04-27-2010, 07:31 PM
Long live Biometric National ID Cards!

mikem317
04-27-2010, 07:34 PM
Yes, like a previous poster said, fix the welfare state first.

Fixing is putting it nicely. Are you an "elected official"? ;)

We need to take a proverbial wrecking-ball to it!


Long live Biometric National ID Cards!

My citizenship in the Untied States is codified by my birth certificate (I was born in Massachusetts). We don't need any bio-nothing.

Vessol
04-27-2010, 07:35 PM
Tell that to Lindsey Graham.

phill4paul
04-27-2010, 07:38 PM
Long live Biometric National ID Cards!

It is a done deal. We stopped them with REAL I.D. They reset and now are end running either a Worker I.D. or a Health I.D.

What the fed wants it gets. Because individuals can't see through the propaganda.

dannno
04-27-2010, 07:40 PM
does anybody believe that real ID may make border fences and patrolling unnecessary? ?

I think it will ultimately bring down the fences completely for those who are engaged in the system, they will be free to travel anywhere. For those who choose not to participate, your liberties and travel will be highly restricted. This is what the AZ law is heading toward.

awake
04-27-2010, 07:44 PM
I think it will ultimately bring down the fences completely for those who are engaged in the system. For those who choose not to participate, your liberties and travel will be highly restricted.

That is precisely what the state does, it steals your liberty and for an extortion fee sells you back a portion of it.