I Need *SOLID* Examples of Government Pollution! :D

[Sentient Void]

I've read and heard about how government is usually the worst perpetrator of pollution compared to the private industry, in contrast to liberals who constantly say how big companies are the worst pollutors.

I'm really not surprised by this statement, but I'm wondering if anyone can rattle off (with solid sources) some great examples, books, etc that you know of that I could use in future debates.

Yes, I could spend hours researching this on my own, and try to find stuff on Google - but I'd be willing to bet that the wealth of knowledge from this forum can give me at least a good start, and then I can go from there.

Thanks guys!

PS - I must say, I'm proud that I've officially recently converted my uncle and my mother from ignorant raging neocons to a libertarian Ron Paul supporters! This is amongst a VERY large number of my friends (who are all passionate individuals) of whom I've also converted to libertarian philosophy. Most of them (including my uncle) took months of conversations, debate, etc over time in order to complete the conversion. My mother - who's extremely 'spiritual' (and raised catholic), I converted libertarian by convincing her that God was an anarchist.

For those who I've not had as much luck - my grandfather is a raging big-govt socialist, and I've had no luck nor do i think I ever will. This is particularly interesting to me because he, my grandmother and mother came here from italy with literally *nothing*, and he built a successful construction company and would now be considered wealthy. I can't seem to figure him out. As for my brother (whose in the Air Force Security Forces), he's sticking to his guns in being a raging neocon imperialist convinced of the serious problem of terrorism - and no amount of logic, reasoning (moral nor economic), or historical examples seem to be able to onvince him. I'm giving him with these two guys.

[muzzled dogg]

every single water and wastewater municipal treatment plant

[tangent4ronpaul]

Gvmt / Mil bases are exempt from al EPA regs. Normally, it takes years to clean one up after it's been decommissioned. I heard about one arsenal storing chemical weapons that had leaked nerve gas into the local water table...

Do a google for "superfund sites"

-t

[DamianTV]

For allowing this:

YouTube - The Garbage Patch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnUjTHB1lvM)

[virgil47]

Gvmt / Mil bases are exempt from al EPA regs. Normally, it takes years to clean one up after it's been decommissioned. I heard about one arsenal storing chemical weapons that had leaked nerve gas into the local water table...

Do a google for "superfund sites"

-t

Total B.S. I've worked on a military base and they are required to follow all EPA rules. If they don't heads roll and careers are ended.

[fj45lvr]

google "balad burnpit".

[JeNNiF00F00]

What about all the bombs their dropping on other countries. Mine fields that have been in places for years, while blowing up little kids from time to time etc.

[Danke]

What about all the bombs their dropping on other countries. Mine fields that have been in places for years, while blowing up little kids from time to time etc.

U mean like depleted Uranium?

[silus]

Its depleted, that means there's none left.

[Brian Defferding]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5553/is_200101/ai_n22500072/

Tennessee Valley Authority Blasted for Pollution by Environmentalists


Jan. 13--Unlike the troubled utilities in California, the Tennessee Valley Authority has had little trouble keeping the power flowing during one of the coldest winters on record.

But environmentalists are still giving TVA the cold shoulder for the way the federal utility is meeting the peak power demand. During a protest outside of TVA complexes in Knoxville and Chattanooga on Friday, members of Katuah Earth First! blasted TVA for causing up to 6,000 deaths in the Tennessee Valley, including 154 people in Chattanooga alone, from the utility's coal-fired plants.

"Because of TVA's indifference to pollution and local geography, we are at ground zero for fine particle pollutants," local activist John Johnson said during Friday's rally in Chattanooga.

The Tennessee Valley Authority, a government operation created during the New Deal, has been constantly committing acts of pollution.

More about that here (http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/01/heads-need-to-roll-at-tva-ceo-blasted-for-lack-of-answers-at-ash-disaster-hearing.html) and here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/12/two-spills-rattle-publics_n_157039.html).

[tmosley]

The air force dumped degreaser on their runways at the local airbase (now closed) for 30 years. Now, no-one can drink the water from the wells within 10-20 miles, depending on the shape of the aquifer.

Lucky for me, I'm just on the other side of a big terrain feature that blocks it from getting here.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Total B.S. I've worked on a military base and they are required to follow all EPA rules. If they don't heads roll and careers are ended.

Maybe now they do, but I know of some base closures that have been complete nightmaers as to cleanup - granted - kind of depends on how old the base it. One's I'm thinking of date back to the cold war and WWII.

-t

[Brian Defferding]

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/9567/Federal_government_allows_pollution_dumping_into_P otomac_River.html

Federal government allows pollution dumping into Potomac River

[radiofriendly]

By any measure, the venerable B-52 bomber is a gas hog. It burns 3,334 gallons per hour through eight jet engines that were designed in the 1950s, when the B-52 first entered service.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-03-08-military-fuel_x.htm
I've heard from a military guy that the B-52 uses as much fuel as some might use in a lifetime for just one flight...that seems a bit much, but it is a crazy amount~!

http://www.madracki.com/usarmyhawk/jpg/b52.jpg

[osan]

I've read and heard about how government is usually the worst perpetrator of pollution compared to the private industry, in contrast to liberals who constantly say how big companies are the worst pollutors.

I'm really not surprised by this statement, but I'm wondering if anyone can rattle off (with solid sources) some great examples, books, etc that you know of that I could use in future debates.



Examples of government pollution? Let me start at the top:

Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush^2, Obama...

Hillary, Pelosi, Frank, Rangel, Reid, Gramm...

Get the picture? They are the most deadly pollutants on the planet.

[virgil47]

What about all the bombs their dropping on other countries. Mine fields that have been in places for years, while blowing up little kids from time to time etc.

What do bombs and mine fields have to do with pollution?

[virgil47]

Maybe now they do, but I know of some base closures that have been complete nightmaers as to cleanup - granted - kind of depends on how old the base it. One's I'm thinking of date back to the cold war and WWII.

-t

Well during that time period no one was very ecologically friendly. The mining and lumber industries come to mind as being polluters. Also the farming industry was a major polluter. Of course we were still developing as a country and science had not shown pollution to be a problem. Going back 50-60-70 years and pointing fingers is so easy and entertaining isn't it?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well during that time period no one was very ecologically friendly. The mining and lumber industries come to mind as being polluters. Also the farming industry was a major polluter. Of course we were still developing as a country and science had not shown pollution to be a problem. Going back 50-60-70 years and pointing fingers is so easy and entertaining isn't it?

Yeah - but they closed 20-25 yrs ago...

-t

[JeNNiF00F00]

What do bombs and mine fields have to do with pollution?

Ever walked through a mine field? Or ever hear of little kids running through one and not knowing it and getting blown to pieces or losing arms and legs because of it? Its pollution. Something that naturally shouldn't be there, and causes harm towards life.

http://tholun.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/img_0210.jpg


Heres another good pollutant created by government: Chernobyl. The entire area cannot be inhabited by humans safely for something like 150k years. And they have to replace the lead sarcophagus covering the reactor every 30 years for about that long. If they let the sarcophagus go, the entire world is pretty much fucked.

http://www.listzblog.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/chernobyl3.jpg

http://uzinaduzina.net/hybridicity/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/1.jpg

[2young2vote]

Well, a good one is Zoning Laws. Zoning laws generally force most businesses to a certain spot which could be miles and miles away from where you live so you have to drive there. If there weren't zoning laws you may have a general store to supply most of your needs right down the street at walking distance.

[amy31416]

There's a reason that the gov't contracts out big-time for chemical demilitarization. You might want to check into Aberdeen Proving Grounds--I almost took a job there.

[tangent4ronpaul]

There's a reason that the gov't contracts out big-time for chemical demilitarization. You might want to check into Aberdeen Proving Grounds--I almost took a job there.

Kind of wish you had ;)

-t

[amy31416]

Kind of wish you had ;)

-t

Yeah, me too. It was right before 9/11 though and they were talking about shutting down the bases there, so I declined because I thought there would be too much risk of layoffs.

Ohhhh, the things I would know about now--and not just with the military, they contracted with the EPA as well.

[keh10]

YouTube - Free market environmentalism by Walter Block Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTsaSUFfpo)

YouTube - Free market environmentalism by Walter Block Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4p-BQInK-g)

YouTube - Free market environmentalism by Walter Block Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB1O2K411gM)

YouTube - Free market environmentalism by Walter Block Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WhqTtil7Ls)

YouTube - Free market environmentalism by Walter Block Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm0A5eoY8Tk)

[Icymudpuppy]

The military continues to purchase new Humvee trucks which use the 6.2L Chevy diesel originally designed for 3/4 ton chevy scottsdale trucks in the 1970s which is preturbo, and gets about 10-14 mpg and puts huge amounts of particulate (acid rain and smog producing) emissions into the atmosphere. The civilian Hummer H1 entered the market with a new 6.5L turbo diesel which gets about 18mpg and saw huge improvements in emissions. The newest H1s are running the Duramax turbo diesel and Allison transmission getting over 20mpg and the cleanest emissions in any diesel full size truck in the world.