winning democrats over

[eproxy100]

I wanna start off by saying I'm completely new here so I apologize in advance if this thread is in the wrong section.

I've noticed most democrats criticize libertarian ideas because they think it'll lead to advantages for the rich and disadvantages for the poor. I haven't heard any libertarians respond by saying that in free market theory everybody will essentially becomes middle class, assuming they work hard enough that is, because of open competition. Nor have I heard any libertarians elaborate that these (take your pick) socialist or corporatist laws and institutions end up perpetuating the current disparity between the rich and the poor. I'm sure some libertarians out there have discussed these things, but they're not in the libertarian videos and articles out there in general. Shouldn't this basic economics theory be pointed out more? This, in my opinion, would really help in winning democrats over.

On a separate note, I thought free market theory was taught in basic high school economics classes?

[dude58677]

Under a gold standard, the value of a dollar will rise so the poor will have a higher standing of living than a poor person will living under a fiat currency.

[amy31416]

I wanna start off by saying I'm completely new here so I apologize in advance if this thread is in the wrong section.

I've noticed most democrats criticize libertarian ideas because they think it'll lead to advantages for the rich and disadvantages for the poor. I haven't heard any libertarians respond by saying that in free market theory everybody will essentially becomes middle class, assuming they work hard enough that is, because of open competition. Nor have I heard any libertarians elaborate that these (take your pick) socialist or corporatist laws and institutions end up perpetuating the current disparity between the rich and the poor. I'm sure some libertarians out there have discussed these things, but they're not in the libertarian videos and articles out there in general. Shouldn't this basic economics theory be pointed out more? This, in my opinion, would really help in winning democrats over.

On a separate note, I thought free market theory was taught in basic high school economics classes?

You make a good point about the liberal/democrat objections to free markets--I think most of them have read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and they associate that scenario with free markets, and the "goodness" of unions. I read the book years ago, and it is a spectacular piece of propaganda to vilify businesses, and it leaves a lasting impression. If you haven't read it, you should, just to see what you're up against.

On a separate note, most high schools don't teach economics.

[Athan]

I've noticed most democrats criticize libertarian ideas because they think it'll lead to advantages for the rich and disadvantages for the poor. (etc...)

On a separate note, I thought free market theory was taught in basic high school economics classes?

You need to explain to them we do NOT have a free market. We have a corporatism which was also known as mercantilism during the American Revolution. That is why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and more dependent on welfare instead. Another problem is the economic system we have is a fiat currency system which means that prices go up over time instead of down as they would with sound money (which explains why coke was a dime or less at one time.)

They do NOT teach free market theory in basic high school. If they did, they would explain what the hell is actually going on with our messed up economic system and why we see a general destruction of the dollar. High schools simply tend to teach and promote keynsian economics which is why everyone is so damned ignorant of economics (including myself at one point) and high on the crack pipe.

[JerseyPatriot]

I certainly agree with Athan that we do not currently have a free market. A free market does not necessarily require competition in any particular market, but it does require the ability of a competitor to enter a market. Funny how a big corporation like Comcast could scream about over-regulation and government interference in free market forces when it spends millions each year on lawyers and lobbyists in an attempt to keep its monopoly

I am all for capitalism and a healthy profit, but big corporations have proven they cannot be trusted to regulate themselves. Look at this global recession caused by unimaginable irresponsibility and pathological greed in the financial sector. The question: where does regulation stop and a flirtation with full-fledged socialism begin? There needs to be healthy balance between a true free market and much needed oversight. If that's at all possible.

[low preference guy]

I certainly agree with Athan that we do not currently have a free market. A free market does not necessarily require competition in any particular market, but it does require the ability of a competitor to enter a market. Funny how a big corporation like Comcast could scream about over-regulation and government interference in free market forces when it spends millions each year on lawyers and lobbyists in an attempt to keep its monopoly

I am all for capitalism and a healthy profit, but big corporations have proven they cannot be trusted to regulate themselves. Look at this global recession caused by unimaginable irresponsibility and pathological greed in the financial sector. The question: where does regulation stop and a flirtation with full-fledged socialism begin? There needs to be healthy balance between a true free market and much needed oversight. If that's at all possible.

Hehe. I can tell you're new here, and you won't find much support for a "healthy balance". For most of us and Ron Paul, "a balance" is a compromise on principles. And most here don't blame greed. People are greedy all the time, yet we don't have financial crisis all the time. The causes are low interest rates by the Federal Reserve which encourage speculation and entities like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which encourages people to borrow money beyond their ability to pay. Those are the culprits of the crisis.

[eproxy100]

You make a good point about the liberal/democrat objections to free markets--I think most of them have read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and they associate that scenario with free markets, and the "goodness" of unions. I read the book years ago, and it is a spectacular piece of propaganda to vilify businesses, and it leaves a lasting impression. If you haven't read it, you should, just to see what you're up against.

On a separate note, most high schools don't teach economics.

That sounds like a pretty nasty propaganda book that I'll have to take a peek at. Fortunately, from how you made that book sound, most of the democrats I've dealt with don't read too many books so I assume their ideas are all through the media and word of mouth.


You need to explain to them we do NOT have a free market. We have a corporatism which was also known as mercantilism during the American Revolution. That is why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and more dependent on welfare instead. Another problem is the economic system we have is a fiat currency system which means that prices go up over time instead of down as they would with sound money (which explains why coke was a dime or less at one time.)

They do NOT teach free market theory in basic high school. If they did, they would explain what the hell is actually going on with our messed up economic system and why we see a general destruction of the dollar. High schools simply tend to teach and promote keynsian economics which is why everyone is so damned ignorant of economics (including myself at one point) and high on the crack pipe.

That's the thing - I think we need to highlight the fact that this isn't a free market economy. That's why I'm requesting that the libertarians who make speeches, videos, and such talk more about how a free market economy is supposed to work and why it would actually shrink the income disparity. They also need to point out that all these regulations and institutions only worsen the situation by not allowing more people to compete.


Hehe. I can tell you're new here, and you won't find much support for a "healthy balance". For most of us and Ron Paul, "a balance" is a compromise on principles. And most here don't blame greed. People are greedy all the time, yet we don't have financial crisis all the time. The causes are low interest rates by the Federal Reserve which encourage speculation and entities like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which encourages people to borrow money beyond their ability to pay. Those are the culprits of the crisis.

See, even some of us libertarians don't know how the free market economy is supposed to work. And let's not forget to mention that institutions like the SEC, FDA, and so on create a false sense of illusion that everything is fine. If there were no such institutions people in general would be more cautious and, therefore, better informed and more knowledgeable.

Sorry for assuming that economics was taught in high school.