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View Full Version : The Libertarian "Endgame"




RileyE104
04-23-2010, 09:28 PM
First of all, this is mainly just me trying to get some steam off my chest, but then again I'm very serious.


Let me go ahead and get all of my questions out of the way:

1) WHAT do you consider the "Libertarian" endgame?
A country with NO Federal Reserve, NO Income Tax, NO IRS, NO War on Drugs, NO Foreign Adventurism, NO fiat money, etc.?

2) Do you think it is possible at all to reach the above goals?

3) HOW do you expect us to get there?


I'm sure most of us can easily answer the first two questions.

Since that's out of the way, HOW do you expect us to reach such Liberty-loving goals in a land filled with mindless and clueless zombies that are closely guarded by their prophets (the TV, the radio, and all the fun, good ol' personalities that come along with them) and their keepers (the wonderful Neo-Conservatives, Economic-Authoritarians, and Social-Nazis who guide the sheeple through their simple lives) ?

I mean, seriously, the people of this country EAT, SLEEP, and BREATHE the New World Order that has been created by the Neo-Conservatives (foreign policy bullshit we all know is false), the Economic-Authoritarians (social "safety nets" that create dependency on the Government and which are funded through the threat of force), and the Social-Nazis (convincing people that the Government needs to protect them from themselves). And yes, you heard me right, I said NEW WORLD ORDER. And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, because MY theory of the NWO is that WE'RE ALREADY FUCKING LIVING IN IT. We're living in a NEW WORLD ORDER that has been created through 100 years of rule by NEO-CONS, ECONOMIC-AUTHORITARIANS, and SOCIAL-NAZIS.

So HOW can we come back and hit these bastards where it hurts?

To answer that, we have to know WHERE it hurts them most.
The answer? THEIR PRECIOUS LITTLE SHEEPLE-ZOMBIES.

Sadly, the only way we're going to do that is not only though the use of Liberty-related political campaigns, but our movement has to get OUT THERE and make our views known through EVERY twist and turn and corner of this entire fucking country.

But how the hell do we do that? Well it's clear to me that the only way is by permanently installing ourselves into the minds and backbones of the sheeple in this country.

The only way to do that is by getting more TV personalities that share our views on TV (CABLE TV) and more radio personalities that share our views onto the airwaves.

John Stossel isn't going to do, Glenn Beck is just an actor, and Judge Napolitano isn't on cable. :mad:

What is it going to take for us to get LIBERTY-MINDED PEOPLE into TV and RADIO positions? We can raise millions of dollars for Liberty-candidates in Money Bombs. Why doesn't our movement concentrate more on getting people who agree with us and putting them right in the face and ears of the stupid clueless fucks who walk around this country always agreeing and voting with the Establishment?

We don't like the establishment MANIPULATING the PEOPLE into believing FALSEHOODS AND LIES, but I say it's about time we start ACTING like the ESTABLISHMENT by USING THEIR METHODS AGAINST THEM. :mad:

WE should be manipulating the People into believing the TRUTH - because that's probably our ONLY way we're ever going to come close to meeting our endgame.

Sure, Ron does his job by getting the word out, but we need the Truth coming from more places than Ron's mouth. He can't do it alone.

</rant>

BetaMale
04-23-2010, 10:02 PM
Well I can't answer all of the questions, but lets take this one

2) Do you think it is possible at all to reach the above goals?

Yes. But more importantly is the question: which of these goals will we see in our lifetime?

I have been saying for a few years now that there's two libertarian core principles that we'll see in our lifetimes (though maybe not in my parent's time): the end of the Federal Reserve & a tax revolt.

Federal banks have dissolved before in this country, and its a major accomplishment for central bankers that the Fed has lasted as long as it has, but their time is coming to a rapid end. It was Ron Paul's (and others') message about the evils of the Fed that got me into the whole 'libertarian' movement. These guys have played games with our country's money and sovereignty all too long and people (like me) are waking up daily. The recession will only be getting worse over the next decade, and people will be asking questions which will undoubtedly lead them to the Federal Reserve. I believe we'll see a day when people tear down the walls of the Fed.

As for the tax revolt; that is an inevitability. The single thing that separates us from socialist Europe is our Constitution. There's still enough people in this country who believe in this document. As long as we have it in our hearts, the Constitution will be the motivating power to resist european socialist taxation.

A time of hardship is coming, and the ending of the Fed and a tax revolt will certainly lead to some short-term difficulties for the country, but ultimately, it will result in the return to prosperity.

I await, in excitement, for these two events. Freedom will return.

Endgame
04-23-2010, 10:02 PM
My screen name is Endgame and this is my Endgame.

I don't see the course of this failing empire of 300 million being righted. I see collapse, balkanization and the new beginnings as the ideal scenario. The worst scenario I can envision is the United States and perhaps the entire "west" becoming a new empire built on corporatism and neo-feudalism (with the emphasis on serfdom and as opposed to obvious "feuding"), after the eradication of any remaining Classical Liberal influences. There will also be an element of theocracy centered around academia and nature worship (mainly used as a justification for complete control of all industry and natural resources).

Right now, libertarian rhetoric is too wrapped up in American patriotism. We need a modern synthesis that goes beyond America, and learns from the mistakes that led to its collapse. These ideas should have appeal to people anywhere on the planet. There might be a time when we have to leave America behind or end up in the gulags.

TCE
04-23-2010, 10:04 PM
First of all, this is mainly just me trying to get some steam off my chest, but then again I'm very serious.


Let me go ahead and get all of my questions out of the way:

1) WHAT do you consider the "Libertarian" endgame?
A country with NO Federal Reserve, NO Income Tax, NO IRS, NO War on Drugs, NO Foreign Adventurism, NO fiat money, etc.?

2) Do you think it is possible at all to reach the above goals?

3) HOW do you expect us to get there?


I'm sure most of us can easily answer the first two questions.

Since that's out of the way, HOW do you expect us to reach such Liberty-loving goals in a land filled with mindless and clueless zombies that are closely guarded by their prophets (the TV, the radio, and all the fun, good ol' personalities that come along with them) and their keepers (the wonderful Neo-Conservatives, Economic-Authoritarians, and Social-Nazis who guide the sheeple through their simple lives) ?

I mean, seriously, the people of this country EAT, SLEEP, and BREATHE the New World Order that has been created by the Neo-Conservatives (foreign policy bullshit we all know is false), the Economic-Authoritarians (social "safety nets" that create dependency on the Government and which are funded through the threat of force), and the Social-Nazis (convincing people that the Government needs to protect them from themselves). And yes, you heard me right, I said NEW WORLD ORDER. And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, because MY theory of the NWO is that WE'RE ALREADY FUCKING LIVING IN IT. We're living in a NEW WORLD ORDER that has been created through 100 years of rule by NEO-CONS, ECONOMIC-AUTHORITARIANS, and SOCIAL-NAZIS.

So HOW can we come back and hit these bastards where it hurts?

To answer that, we have to know WHERE it hurts them most.
The answer? THEIR PRECIOUS LITTLE SHEEPLE-ZOMBIES.

Sadly, the only way we're going to do that is not only though the use of Liberty-related political campaigns, but our movement has to get OUT THERE and make our views known through EVERY twist and turn and corner of this entire fucking country.

But how the hell do we do that? Well it's clear to me that the only way is by permanently installing ourselves into the minds and backbones of the sheeple in this country.

The only way to do that is by getting more TV personalities that share our views on TV (CABLE TV) and more radio personalities that share our views onto the airwaves.

John Stossel isn't going to do, Glenn Beck is just an actor, and Judge Napolitano isn't on cable. :mad:

What is it going to take for us to get LIBERTY-MINDED PEOPLE into TV and RADIO positions? We can raise millions of dollars for Liberty-candidates in Money Bombs. Why doesn't our movement concentrate more on getting people who agree with us and putting them right in the face and ears of the stupid clueless fucks who walk around this country always agreeing and voting with the Establishment?

We don't like the establishment MANIPULATING the PEOPLE into believing FALSEHOODS AND LIES, but I say it's about time we start ACTING like the ESTABLISHMENT by USING THEIR METHODS AGAINST THEM. :mad:

WE should be manipulating the People into believing the TRUTH - because that's probably our ONLY way we're ever going to come close to meeting our endgame.

Sure, Ron does his job by getting the word out, but we need the Truth coming from more places than Ron's mouth. He can't do it alone.

</rant>

I'll take your list in order:

1. Your list sounds pretty good. Consider that the country lived without a Federal Reserve for a long time. This whole proactive war thing was started over the last seven years with "The Bush Doctrine." Same with all of the other items you listed as well. This is more a direct result of the 20th Century than anything. We want to move government back to what it was during the 19th Century.

2. Yes, but to be brutally honest, it is going to take quite some time. We need to have majorities in the Congress and/or State Legislatures and be able to get bills through. This could take decades. Right now, we as a movement are finding our footing and trying to get a few people into Congress who share our views. That way, some might become mainstream.

3. Through incrementalism. If we get Rand and Hostettler in and nothing else works, we have progress. Then next cycle we can focus on some House seats and State Legislatures seats and possibly a Senate seat. Keep doing this every cycle and eventually we are a force to be reckoned with.

You are phrasing it like we are trying to push ideas on people that they don't like. There is something in the Liberty Movement for everyone. For the liberals:

* Truly Anti-war, not just talk, we will actually BE anti-war.
* Against the War on Drugs
* Getting rid of wasteful spending
* Ending corporate welfare and helping big business with subsidies
* Socially liberal, against the government getting involved in Marriage and home schooling

Conservatives:

* Smaller government, and virtually no taxes
* Truly free markets
* Most libertarians are against abortion
* Government out of marriage, so states can ban or allow it
* Hardly any regulations, no regulations in a perfect world

Oh, and Judge Napolitano is on cable and Freedom Watch is coming to Fox Business.

There has never been a better time to get involved in the Liberty Movement. three or four years ago, we had virtually nothing to show for our efforts. But these past two years (2008, 2009) have been the best we've ever seen. We are making huge strides and are in a prime position to take some of Congress (and a state legislature) back!

lx43
04-23-2010, 10:24 PM
We are making progress one small step at a time. Like TCE said, several years ago you wouldn't have heard a word about Austro economic theory, non-interventionalism, no income tax, and cutting spending dramatcially. I very much felt like a man stranded on a deserted island. Now I know there are more voices like mine who believe in the same things I do.

I see the problem we face is getting more people active. I personally know 5 hardcore libertarians who do absolutely nothing to advance the cause of liberty.

Fox McCloud
04-23-2010, 10:41 PM
I will not rest until we have a foreign policy in every sense of the word; whether I have this one life or ten-thousand.

(and before I'm questioned, no I'm not suggesting we have multiple lives, it's merely an analogy to my commitment to liberty).

That said, I'll be extremely happy if I just saw a return to sound money during my lifetime.

Live_Free_Or_Die
04-23-2010, 11:02 PM
I might as well get in and out of the thread early to take my ass pounding for having so called radical views that contradict the political pot of gold at the end of the election rainbow.



1) WHAT do you consider the "Libertarian" endgame?

Market leverage.



2) Do you think it is possible at all to reach the above goals?

Yes.



3) HOW do you expect us to get there?

Work towards creating a self sufficient private trade network among libertarians starting with the production of subsistence goods and machinery.

Endgame
04-23-2010, 11:16 PM
I might as well get in and out of the thread early to take my ass pounding for having so called radical views that contradict the political pot of gold at the end of the election rainbow.



Market leverage.



Yes.



Work towards creating a self sufficient private trade network among libertarians starting with the production of subsistence goods and machinery.

Ah, agorism. I'm still waiting for Pablo Escobar to overthrow the government and sell me a tariff-free sack of rice for 1$. It'd be really cool if I could take a vacation to a secret underground base with nudity, freelove with the director of the FBI's daughter and D&D every now and then too.

donesteban
04-23-2010, 11:19 PM
You are phrasing it like we are trying to push ideas on people that they don't like. There is something in the Liberty Movement for everyone. For the liberals:

* Truly Anti-war, not just talk, we will actually BE anti-war.
* Against the War on Drugs
* Getting rid of wasteful spending
* Ending corporate welfare and helping big business with subsidies
* Socially liberal, against the government getting involved in Marriage and home schooling

Conservatives:

* Smaller government, and virtually no taxes
* Truly free markets
* Most libertarians are against abortion
* Government out of marriage, so states can ban or allow it
* Hardly any regulations, no regulations in a perfect world


And it is because of this we arrive at the problem. To the conservatives and leftists, they require all or nothing. It's not good enough unless one side can force its ideology on the other, which is probably the hidden point behind their votes anyway. They just won't accept any ideas from the "other" side, it's intolerable to them.

TCE
04-23-2010, 11:40 PM
And it is because of this we arrive at the problem. To the conservatives and leftists, they require all or nothing. It's not good enough unless one side can force its ideology on the other, which is probably the hidden point behind their votes anyway. They just won't accept any ideas from the "other" side, it's intolerable to them.

Rand's entire campaign contradicts your point. Secretly, he agrees with virtually all of his father's position, but he keeps that at arm's length so he doesn't piss off the Kentucky electorate. If all of us just took Rand's campaign and used it as a model, we would win a lot more. Rand is telling the people of Kentucky the positions he has that they agree with, but keeping all of his other answers vague and somewhat political. This can be used for any campaign and electorate, since we agree with both parties on certain issues.

nandnor
04-24-2010, 06:24 AM
nvm

noxagol
04-24-2010, 06:28 AM
Rand's entire campaign contradicts your point. Secretly, he agrees with virtually all of his father's position, but he keeps that at arm's length so he doesn't piss off the Kentucky electorate. If all of us just took Rand's campaign and used it as a model, we would win a lot more. Rand is telling the people of Kentucky the positions he has that they agree with, but keeping all of his other answers vague and somewhat political. This can be used for any campaign and electorate, since we agree with both parties on certain issues.

And that is exactly how the statists got into power in the first place.

TCE
04-24-2010, 02:11 PM
And that is exactly how the statists got into power in the first place.

That is exactly right, but this time, we're using their winning strategy. We don't need to reinvent the wheel, just run use what the neo-cons/liberals did and use it for our candidates. We'll win elections and eventually have majorities if we do that. Then, in 10 or 20 years, our ideas will be consensus and we can run on those principles.