France to ban full Islamic veil from public spaces

[tropicangela]

The comments on this page are scary. How is it celebratory that people don't have freedom to choose whether or not to wear a garment? :mad:

France to ban full Islamic veil from public spaces
http://tinyurl.com/276pfds

[MelissaWV]

In the US, masks are banned in lots of public places.

:(

[Anti Federalist]

In the US, masks are banned in lots of public places.

:(

Unless you're these guys of course:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OW_mts4kjS4/RyKobOF0GRI/AAAAAAAAAUM/gaiumrPJcns/s400/swat.jpg

[Sentient Void]

Completely retarded. I think a bit back the UK was doing something similar?

Not only with this piss off the 'nation of islam' even more, but it's simply put a clear-cut violation of civil liberties and free speech. This is only going to have more negative results than positive ones.

[Pete_00]

Well, if non-muslims must make their face visible in public spaces so do muslims. Its a matter of equality. You are looking at things from a total libertarian perspective but the fact is France isnt a libertarian society so this law makes perfect sense.

[Sentient Void]

Well, if non-muslims must make their face visible in public spaces so do muslims. Its a matter of equality. You are looking at things from a total libertarian perspective but the fact is France isnt a libertarian society so this law makes perfect sense.

You may be right - but that's besides the point. In the end, forcing anyone to have to show their face or not is a violation of civil liberties. This just further shows how ridiculous it is, IMO. What's next - the banning of hats?

As a side note... It's funny how liberals, et al talk about France as if it's some haven of liberalism... yet they have such ridiculous violations of civil liberties like this, which liberals all too often claim they are for.

Any government controls of civil or economic liberties lead to totalitarianism - because they are inextricably entwined. 'Liberals' like to talk about civil liberties, and owning their bodies, decisions, etc... yet they advocate govt force against me/anyone deciding what I can/can't do with my own money... which is the fruit the labor of my body...

The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.

[NewFederalist]

Is it a violation of civil rights to force an Islamic woman to remove her veil to be photographed for a Drivers License or other ID card?

[tropicangela]

well, i just had a response on facebook by a woman saying how the women in that culture are raped as infants, beaten into submission, etc etc etc, and the only way they'll take them off is if someone makes them!

then i searched a little and found plenty of muslim women interviewed saying they are not wearing them because they are submissive... http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2009%2FUS%2F08% 2F12%2Fgeneration.islam.hijab%2Findex.html&h=caf41

can you imagine if our federal government decided that no breastfeeding women were allowed to cover themselves if they wanted to? i'm all about leaving nursing mothers alone if they CHOOSE not to cover up, it should be their choice to cover or NOT to cover.

so... the message from libs seems to be, it's not ok for the men over there to tell these women what to do, but it's ok for men and women in france to tell them.

[silentshout]

Wow..so sad. I can understand for driver's licenses, but many of these women CHOOSE (ie are not forced) to wear these coverings. I don't have to agree with it, but they should be allowed to. I'm not religious but freedom of religious expression should be protected, even if you disagree with it.

What about non-Muslims who might want to wear one of these coverings?

[silentshout]

As a side note... It's funny how liberals, et al talk about France as if it's some haven of liberalism... yet they have such ridiculous violations of civil liberties like this, which liberals all too often claim they are for.


The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.

As someone with in-laws in France and who visits often, I agree. I find it funny how many liberals worship the place. It has its good and bad, but freedom of expression is not valued there IMO. Also, libertarianism would be laughed at there.

[furface]

Well, if non-muslims must make their face visible in public spaces so do muslims. Its a matter of equality.

Why should anybody have to show their face in public? Is there something I'm missing?

The other thing these women are doing besides wearing veils is having babies. France should be a Muslim majority country in about 40 years the way birth rates are going. I see Muslim veils popping up everywhere. It's not just an issue in France.

[Umbro2914]

ok im going to be a outcast and say i agree with this. I think one ought to adopt local customs. In the West, people do not cover their faces, its unsocial, and ridiclious. If you cant part with that cliothing, then just return to where you came from. If a female was to travel to the Middle East, they sure as hell would have to cover up. Each area has their own established society, and West just so has it that we dont support full body covers.

I know I'm going to get atttacked, but lets be real.

[tropicangela]

ok im going to be a outcast and say i agree with this. I think one ought to adopt local customs. In the West, people do not cover their faces, its unsocial, and ridiclious. If you cant part with that cliothing, then just return to where you came from. If a female was to travel to the Middle East, they sure as hell would have to cover up. Each area has their own established society, and West just so has it that we dont support full body covers.

I know I'm going to get atttacked, but lets be real.

you think the role of government is to enforce social customs? of your choosing? theirs? whose?

[furface]

If a female was to travel to the Middle East, they sure as hell would have to cover up.

Saudia Arabia, Iran maybe. If you want to visit a mosque, probably. Other places, no.

[BlackTerrel]

And Switzerland just banned Minarets on Mosques. Europe is becoming a very scary place again. Muslims are the new Jews.


well, i just had a response on facebook by a woman saying how the women in that culture are raped as infants, beaten into submission, etc etc etc,

Blah Blah Blah...bigots could say the same about Catholics

[BlackTerrel]

ok im going to be a outcast and say i agree with this. I think one ought to adopt local customs. In the West, people do not cover their faces, its unsocial, and ridiclious. If you cant part with that cliothing, then just return to where you came from. If a female was to travel to the Middle East, they sure as hell would have to cover up.

This is a typical argument. If "we can't do X in their country why do they expect to do it in ours". By this argument since converting to Christianity is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, converting to Islam should be punishable by death in France.

Muslims in France do not control the laws in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have some stupid laws, and so do the French.

[Umbro2914]

Saudia Arabia, Iran maybe. If you want to visit a mosque, probably. Other places, no.

+ Syria, Kuwait, and I'm sure others.

[Fozz]

The Southern Avenger supports these types of laws.

He is anti-Muslim.

[Depressed Liberator]

The Southern Avenger supports these types of laws.

He is anti-Muslim.

I liked the Southern Avenger until I heard his opinions on Muslims. Just a bigot.

[Southron]

Yeah and it is illegal in the UK to preach in public that homosexuality is a sin.

These countries are not models we should try and emulate.

[lester1/2jr]

They will pull their kids out of school and stay home 24-7. problem solved?



An association set up to defend the rights of women in France's immigrant ghettos

an association of annoying liberals who want to take away these womens right to dress how they want

[Inflation]

Totalitarian expansionist religious cults have no place in a modern civil society.

This is a war of civilizations. It has been going on for centuries.

The French will not abdicate their country to the Muslim Caliphate.

All you PC Police and racial scolds can SUCK IT !!!

Take your Saracen apologetics and STUFF THEM !!!

If not for Patriots like Charles "The Hammer" Martel, France would be another backwards Muslim pit of camel buggery and child bride swapping.

FRANCE BELONGS TO THE FRENCH.

http://www.omdurman.org/leaflets/tours.jpg

[Inflation]

http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/histprof/misc/tours.html


Battle of Tours

October 10, 732 AD marks the conclusion of the Battle of Tours, arguably one of the most decisive battles in all of history.


http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/histprof/images/tours.gif

A Moslem army, in a crusading search for land and the end of Christianity, after the conquest of Syria, Egypt, and North Africa, began to invade Western Europe under the leadership of Abd-er Rahman, governor of Spain. Abd-er Rahman led an infantry of 60,000 to 400,000 soldiers across the Western Pyrenees and toward the Loire River, but they were met just outside the city of Tours by Charles Martel, known as the Hammer, and the Frankish Army.

Martel gathered his forces directly in the path of the oncoming Moslem army and prepared to defend themselves by using a phalanx style of combat. The invading Moslems rushed forward, relying on the slashing tactics and overwhelming number of horsemen that had brought them victories in the past. However, the French Army, composed of foot soldiers armed only with swords, shields, axes, javelins, and daggers, was well trained. Despite the effectiveness of the Moslem army in previous battles, the terrain caused them a disadvantage. Their strength lied within their cavalry, armed with large swords and lances, which along with their baggage mules, limited their mobility. The French army displayed great ardency in withstanding the ferocious attack. It was one of the rare times in the Middle Ages when infantry held its ground against a mounted attack. The exact length of the battle is undetermined; Arab sources claim that it was a two day battle whereas Christian sources hold that the fighting clamored on for seven days. In either case, the battle ended when the French captured and killed Abd-er Rahman. The Moslem army withdrew peacefully overnight and even though Martel expected a surprise retaliation, there was none. For the Moslems, the death of their leader caused a sharp setback and they had no choice but to retreat back across the Pyrenees, never to return again.

Not only did this prove to be an extremely decisive battle for the Christians, but the Battle of Tours is considered the high water mark of the Moslem invasion of Western Europe.
Bibliography:

A Dictionary of Battles, Eggenberger, David. Thomas Y. Crowell Company, 1967

Battlefields of Europe, Edited by David Chandler. Hugh Evelyn Ltd,1965

The Cambridge Medival History Volume IV, Planned by J.B. Bory, M.A., F.B.A., edited by J.R.Tanner, Litt.D., C.W. Previte-Orton, M.A., Z.N. Brooke, M.A. New York The MacMillan Company, 1923



http://www.omdurman.org/roland.jpg


Roland (also known as Orlando), one of Charlemagne's paladins.
(http://www.omdurman.org/heroes.html#Martel)
Roland blows his horn, the Oliphant, during his final battle against militant "Islamic" hordes at Roncesvalles. The image of the heroic Western European knight surrounded by a horde of barbarians is a very useful image in defining the situation that confronts Western Civilization and humanity in general.

http://www.omdurman.org/martel1.jpg