Leftist SPLC Publishes Patriot Hit List

[FrankRep]

The leftist Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) is worried that non-violent conservative opposition to big government will lead to violence, and has produced an enemies list that includes much of the freedom (patriot) movement. by Thomas R. Eddlem


Leftist SPLC Publishes Patriot Hit List (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3358-leftist-splc-publishes-patriot-hit-list)


Thomas R. Eddlem | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
Tuesday, 20 April 2010

[MelissaWV]

If one of those "enemies" had published an article including a "hit list" they would already be hearing the Government knocks on their door, and we'd be hearing about it being a "call to violence."

[Deborah K]

Here is the list of haters: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-patriots?page=0,0

I wonder if Catherine, Gary, and Joe know they're on the list.

[Deborah K]

The Judge? Ron Paul? WTF? Have you looked at this list???

[MelissaWV]

The Judge? Ron Paul? WTF? Have you looked at this list???

Absolutely.

Again, if someone published a "hit list" with similar names from other organizations, and that person happened to be "Right Wing" or "Conservative" or (heavens!) "Libertarian," we would be hearing about it as a call to violence. You know those right-wing gun-kooks are just itchin' to kill anyone on a list! :rolleyes: :mad: It's depressing. It would also double, of course, as a "racist" list if any of the people on it were considered "non-White" or happened to be the head of some organization like the ACLU, La Raza, or the NAACP.

Double-standard a la mode anyone?

[pcosmar]

The Judge? Ron Paul? WTF? Have you looked at this list???

Yup, Lots of eyes on this.
Pastor Chuck is first on the list, and spoke a bit about it last Sunday.
It is no wonder that a innocent Christian group (the Hutaree) were targeted for the media show.

eyes and ears open

[amy31416]

We need a list of our own, a list of those whose very existence depends solely on whipping up fear, hatred, violence and racism. Mark Potok and Abe Foxman come to mind, along with Liz Cheney and a few others.

[tmosley]

These people stoke hatred. Liberals have proven themselves to be more hate filled and more violent than any "hate group" they have listed among the patriot movement. Witness the assassination attempt on a Republican lawmaker, and the numerous death threats against Republicans during the Health Care debate. They want their "free" stuff, and they will kill to get it.

Savagery is in vogue, it seems.

[Pericles]

They missed a few militia organizers:

Associated Regiment of Philadelphia - Benjamin Franklin
Commander of the Boston Cadets - John Hancock
Commander of the Fairfax County Militia - George Washington
County Lieutenant of the Albemarle County Militia - Thomas Jefferson

Only the Boston Cadet have approval from the government to form a militia - and Hancock was fired from the post by the Royal Governor.

[Deborah K]

Yup, Lots of eyes on this.
Pastor Chuck is first on the list, and spoke a bit about it last Sunday.
It is no wonder that a innocent Christian group (the Hutaree) were targeted for the media show.

eyes and ears open

When I saw that Catherine was number 4 it alarmed me - then I realized they're in alphabetical order. I personally know a lot of these people. This is f'kd up.

[pcosmar]

When I saw that Catherine was number 4 it alarmed me - then I realized they're in alphabetical order. I personally know a lot of these people. This is f'kd up.

:p
We are in good company.

:cool:

[Deborah K]

Well I can understand why Orly Taitz is on the list. She's a REAL threat!!! :rolleyes:

[JCF]

Just more propaganda for the sheep "left wingers".

[Deborah K]

Fox Pox
Andrew Napolitano, 59

In a recent Washington Post article, a media analyst contended that Fox News was at a crossroads. He said the network was in danger of losing its credibility as a newsgathering operation because of far-right conspiracy-mongers like host Glenn Beck.

But Beck is not the only one weakening Fox's credibility. Another hot contender in the far right-wing advocacy department is Fox's "senior judicial analyst" — Judge Andrew Napolitano.

Napolitano, a former state judge in New Jersey, appears on several Fox shows and is broadcast on any given day over the television, radio and the Internet. He was scheduled to be the keynote speaker this past February at the first annual Tenth Amendment Summit in Atlanta, but was snowed in and never made it. He missed out on rubbing elbows with neo-Confederates, conspiracy theorists and antigovernment Patriot activists.

It seems the TV judge is vying to become a fixture on the far-right lecture circuit. He was also scheduled to address the 2010 New Hampshire Liberty Forum, a gathering of self-described "pro-liberty activists" who are striving to "cut the size and scope of government by about two-thirds or more."

Napolitano has joined other conspiracy theorists in falsely claiming that efforts to expand affordable housing through the Community Reinvestment Act were responsible for the crash of the economy in 2008. He called Sarah Palin's baseless accusation that Obama was trying to set up "death panels" a "legitimate concern." He falsely suggested that Obama bribed a congressman to change his vote on health care by appointing his brother to an appeals court.

Napolitano joined Fox in 1998. He appears daily on "The Big Story with John Gibson," co-hosts "Fox & Friends" once a week and is a regular on "The O'Reilly Factor." Napolitano taught constitutional law and jurisprudence at Seton Hall Law School for 11 years. He was the youngest life-tenured Superior Court judge in the history of New Jersey and served on the bench from 1987 to 1995. He returned to private practice in 1995 and began his career in broadcasting that same year.

[Deborah K]

'Dr. No'
Ron Paul, 74

The "Ron Paul Revolution" failed to put the radical libertarian and outspoken Texas congressman into the White House, but Paul's long-shot campaign gave voice to the discontented on the GOP's right flank and created a prototype of sorts for the Tea Party insurgency that followed.

Whether he's advocating pulling out of the United Nations, trashing the Fed, or returning to the gold standard, Paul's views have scored him plenty of points among the Patriot crowd. One Patriot activist minting his own currency in the late 2000s even created the "Ron Paul Dollar."

With his straight-shooting style and unwavering ideology, Paul represents an accessible brand of Patriot politics that helps validate and stoke fears of an overreaching government on the far right. Paul told Fox Business News earlier this year, for example, that the health care reform legislation "is immoral because it's based on government theft." On his congressional website, he warns that Census information has been used to intern Japanese Americans and find alleged tax evaders and draft dodgers. "It is not hard to imagine that information compiled by the Census could be used against people in the future, despite claims to the contrary."

Paul has encountered controversy over racially charged comments that surfaced during his 1996 congressional campaign. A March 15, 1993, issue of his newsletter, The Ron Paul Survival Report, included this nugget: "If there is one thing we don't need in this country, its [sic] more Haitians [sic] immigrants with AIDS. Congratulations to the Senate for stopping, at least temporarily, Clinton's plan to have the AIDSians move here to die at $100,000 a pop, courtesy of the taxpayers."

A May 15, 1995, newsletter delved into traditional Patriot paranoia, including an article about foreign troops training on American soil and President George H.W. Bush's "New World Order." An article about a botched raid by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is presented under the headline, "Jack-Booted Thugs."

Paul claimed in 2001 that ghostwriters had penned the newsletters that bear his name but acknowledged he bore "some moral responsibility." Paul, a physician who is often called "Dr. No" for his routine opposition to government programs, not only survived the controversy and won the election, he continues to build his popularity. He easily won the Conservative Political Action Committee's presidential straw poll this year.

Potak is the #1 enemy in my book

[ChaosControl]

SPLC, the largest hate group in the nation. **** them.

[pcosmar]

Potak is the #1 enemy in my book

Remember that he is just another dancing puppet. It is the puppeteer that is the true enemy.
Who pulls his strings?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=241095

[Anti Federalist]

Just more propaganda for the sheep "left wingers".

No, this is more than just propaganda for mass consumption.

These people have the ear of state and federal government.

They decide, to a large degree, who is assigned to government "watch lists".

This whole security apparatus that was set up in the wake of 9/11 was always designed for the American people, not amorphous foreigners.

SPLC determines who that apparatus turns it's eye toward

[Fox McCloud]

These people stoke hatred. Liberals have proven themselves to be more hate filled and more violent than any "hate group" they have listed among the patriot movement. Witness the assassination attempt on a Republican lawmaker, and the numerous death threats against Republicans during the Health Care debate. They want their "free" stuff, and they will kill to get it.

Savagery is in vogue, it seems.

come on ow, Tmosley! It's just a well-defined and excusable case of "animal exuberance"--it's not their fault that they went to such extremes; the debate was emotionally charged!

Ok, obviously I'm joking, but that's exactly the excuse that unions use when their strikers injure/harm other workers (or even non-workers). It's patently ridiculous....and even more aggravating is that they actually get away with it under that guise.

[Deborah K]

Remember that he is just another dancing puppet. It is the puppeteer that is the true enemy.
Who pulls his strings?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=241095

Thank you for the link. Potak needs to be discredited, imo.

[amy31416]

Thank you for the link. Potak needs to be discredited, imo.

If we just discredit him, that won't put a dent in the SPLC, they'll just replace him with another Morris Dees or whomever.

The SPLC itself needs to be discredited. They used to go after leftists as well with the WTO protests (though I'm sure most lefties have since forgotten that.)

[nate895]

Fox Pox
Andrew Napolitano, 59


Napolitano joined Fox in 1998. He appears daily on "The Big Story with John Gibson,"


How ignorant are these people? John Gibson hasn't had a show on Fox for 4-5 years. This entire thing is just stupid. It's a case of "we have no arguments, so we better make sure that everyone thinks the opposition is a group of racist terrorists, bent on destroying the god 'Democracy.'"

[teamrican1]

If we just discredit him, that won't put a dent in the SPLC, they'll just replace him with another Morris Dees or whomever.

The SPLC itself needs to be discredited. They used to go after leftists as well with the WTO protests (though I'm sure most lefties have since forgotten that.)


I don't really think they need to be "discredited". They are what they are- a socialist, pro-authoritarian organ of the state that is a bitter enemy of the Freedom movement and individual liberty. In a certain sense, they are useful, as any politician who doesn't make their Enemies List should be suspect.

[youngbuck]

These people stoke hatred. Liberals have proven themselves to be more hate filled and more violent than any "hate group" they have listed among the patriot movement. Witness the assassination attempt on a Republican lawmaker, and the numerous death threats against Republicans during the Health Care debate. They want their "free" stuff, and they will kill to get it.

Savagery is in vogue, it seems.

This is exactly the case. What f'n madness!

[Paulitical Correctness]

I think Catherine was interviewed on CNN about this last night, according to her tweets.

[amy31416]

I think Catherine was interviewed on CNN about this last night, according to her tweets.

YouTube - CNN - Radical or Right - Anger Against the Government.flv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhgnujS0Ko)

[Bern]

... SPLC determines who that apparatus turns it's eye toward

http://www.joshilynjackson.com/mt/doomed2.jpg

[peacepotpaul]

I originally thought, they were going to have militia groups like Hutaree, but I had to laugh, Gary Franchi & Catherine Bleish???

damn, a lot of new faces, most of which are keyboard commandos!

[pcosmar]

I originally thought, they were going to have militia groups like Hutaree, but I had to laugh, Gary Franchi & Catherine Bleish???

damn, a lot of new faces, most of which are keyboard commandos!

Define "Keyboard Commandos".
I am also curious about your reference to patriots like the Hutaree. :confused:
Please read this,
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=241095

[dannno]

Wow, Catherine Bleish made #4!!

[Anti Federalist]

Wow, Catherine Bleish made #4!!

Alphabetical order, not ranked on level of "hate". ;)

[FrankRep]

Southern Poverty Law Center Publishes Patriot Hit List

Chuck Baldwin
April 21, 2010

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin583.htm

[Brian4Liberty]

SPLC, Rachel Maddow, Joe Klein...they all seem to have come up with a plan to link anyone who doesn't agree with their big government ideas with radicalism and terrorism. What a bunch of dishonest hypocrites.

[dr. hfn]

disgusting, who knows how to take down websites?

[Expatriate]

LOL, they're calling Catherine Bleish the "Needle of Estrogen"?

[Dreamofunity]

Up until the newsletters, Ron's description sounded awesome.

[Deborah K]

YouTube - CNN - Radical or Right - Anger Against the Government.flv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhgnujS0Ko)

Good job Catherine!

[Deborah K]

I don't really think they need to be "discredited". They are what they are- a socialist, pro-authoritarian organ of the state that is a bitter enemy of the Freedom movement and individual liberty. In a certain sense, they are useful, as any politician who doesn't make their Enemies List should be suspect.

The only way to win is to play the game by their rules. Spread this around wherever you see their "hit" list.


Morris Dees doesn't need your financial support. The SPLC is already the wealthiest civil rights group in America, though this letter quite naturally omits that fact. Other solicitations have been more flagrantly misleading. One pitch, sent out in 1995-when the Center had more than $60 million in reserves-informed would-be donors that the "strain on our current operating budget is the greatest in our 25-year history." Back in 1978, when the Center had less than $10 million, Dees promised that his organization would quit fund-raising and live off interest as soon as its endowment hit $55 million. But as it approached that figure, the SPLC upped the bar to $100 million, a sum that, one 1989 newsletter promised, would allow the Center "to cease the costly and often unreliable task of fund raising. " Today, the SPLC's treasury bulges with $120 million, and it spends twice as much on fund-raising-$5.76 million last year-as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses. The American Institute of Philanthropy gives the Center one of the worst ratings of any group it monitors, estimating that the SPLC could operate for 4.6 years without making another tax-exempt nickel from its investments or raising another tax-deductible cent from well-meaning "people like you."

The SPLC's "other important work justice" consists mainly in spying on private citizens who belong to "hate groups," sharing its files with law-enforcement agencies, and suing the most prominent of these groups for crimes committed independently by their members-a practice that, however seemingly justified, should give civil libertarians pause. The legal strategy employed by Dees could have put the Black Panther Party out of business or bankrupted the New England Emigrant Aid Company in retaliation for crimes committed by John Brown. What the Center's other work for justice does not include is anything that might be considered controversial by donors. According to Millard Farmer, the Center largely stopped taking death-penalty cases for fear that too visible an opposition to capital punishment would scare off potential contributors. In 1986, the Center's entire legal staff quit in protest of Dees's refusal to address issues-such as homelessness, voter registration, and affirmative action-that they considered far more pertinent to poor minorities, if far less marketable to affluent benefactors, than fighting the KKK. Another lawyer, Gloria Browne, who resigned a few years later, told reporters that the Center's programs were calculated to cash in on "black pain and white guilt." Asked in 1994 if the SPLC itself, whose leadership consists almost entirely of white men, was in need of an affirmative action policy, Dees replied that "probably the most discriminated people in America today are white men when it comes to jobs."

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/The%20Church%20of%20Morris%20Dees.html

[catdd]

Yup, Lots of eyes on this.
Pastor Chuck is first on the list, and spoke a bit about it last Sunday.
It is no wonder that a innocent Christian group (the Hutaree) were targeted for the media show.

eyes and ears open

A thousand bucks says the SPLC turned Hutaree in to the DHS who in turn alerted the Feds.

[Pericles]

A thousand bucks says the SPLC turned Hutaree in to the DHS who in turn alerted the Feds.

Sorry, I'd rather spend the $1K on my ammo stash.:D

[catdd]

Sorry, I'd rather spend the $1K on my ammo stash.:D

How about 5 bucks?

[Pericles]

How about 5 bucks?
Why would I make any bet that you would win?

[JeNNiF00F00]

These people preach about "tolerance" and then put some kind of bullshit like this up? LOL What a joke.

[catdd]

Why would I make any bet that you would win?

:D

[Anti Federalist]

Why would I make any bet that you would win?

^^that

[catdd]

Do we just have to sit around and take this kind of shit from the ADL and SPLC?

[acptulsa]

'We fear this non-violent movement will lead to violence.'

O.K. Fortunately (and unfortunately, respectively) that's about as likely to happen as your anti-liberty campaign leading to liberty, SPLC.

[silentshout]

This is horrible...do they not realize what they are doing by putting people on a list? Scary stuff. So basically anyone that disagrees with the current government should be on some list? Even during the Bush years, when people who disagreed with him were considered treasonous, there were no such lists (as far as I know..)

[silentshout]

These people preach about "tolerance" and then put some kind of bullshit like this up? LOL What a joke.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[peacepotpaul]

Define "Keyboard Commandos".


http://www.dustinland.com/dlands/dland.laziness.jpg



I am also curious about your reference to patriots like the Hutaree.

you mean you dont consider Hutaree patriots?

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.dustinland.com/dlands/dland.laziness.jpg



you mean you dont consider Hutaree patriots?

Plan on seeing that again. ^^

[pcosmar]

A thousand bucks says the SPLC turned Hutaree in to the DHS who in turn alerted the Feds.

Actually worse. It seems that some folks in the BBQ militia turned them in. Whether they were SPLC sympathizers or what is unknown.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100417/METRO/4170351/Other-militias-told-on-Hutaree

Be careful who you trust.
:(

[Free Moral Agent]

Leftist SPLC Publishes Patriot Hit List


More like Liberty Activist Hall of Fame!

What sickens me about the statist yuppies running the SPLC is that they are not ignorant of what we are about, they are quite in-tuned. They know full well that we are not about being indiscriminately violent, racist, or paranoid. I look at this as a sign that this movement is starting to overwhelm the opposition. The patriots on that list are an inspiration!

[mczerone]

Here is the list of haters: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-patriots?page=0,0

I wonder if Catherine, Gary, and Joe know they're on the list.

Under "The Enablers":


Here are profiles of four such characters:

And they proceed to list five people.

That 6 page report is just a sad specimen of groupthink and Sunstein-esque conspiracy-theory discreditation.

The timeline at the end makes it look like everyone of us was involved in all those one-off violent shootouts, seems to excuse the shootouts because the non-government shooter believed some "crazy" thing, and mixes the mundane and ridiculous beliefs like they are equally credible.

I shudder to think which powerful people lend their ears to these slanderous fear-dredging Tories.

[bunklocoempire]

Use this, as well as the MIAC Report. Show folks (Repubs) who is not on their list. And the folks on the list -focus on their true liberty common traits of course.

Kind of an easy 'street cred' thing.

Quite an opportunity.


Bunkloco

[devil21]

Wow that's just amazing that the SPLC would publish such a webpage while their motto is "Fighting Hate, Teaching Tolerance, Seeking Justice". How is a "Hit List" not hate? How is bashing people that disagree with your agenda tolerant? What justice is served with this webpage? Leave it to these people to be the biggest hypocrites in the room. Then they wonder why so many look at them sideways...

[teacherone]

am i the only one that does not see the words "hit list" on the page?:confused::confused::confused:

can't seem to find them...

looks more to me like the bios of people in a movement the SPLC detests

not people it wants eliminated.

seems like this thread is full of over-reaction:eek:

[devil21]

am i the only one that does not see the words "hit list" on the page?:confused::confused::confused:

Sure there's some liberty taken with the exact title of the page but the intent is clear. When a known extremist organization like the SPLC has your name on their website, it's a sure bet you're a "target" for a "hit". The form the hit takes may vary.

[tremendoustie]

Well, I just learned that SPLC is a narrow minded, hate-filled, bigoted group.

[Bruehound]

I am very disappointed I did not make the cut. What a fine list of good people.

[catdd]

Well I haven't been to a Tea since the neocons got involved but I think it would be a good place to start protesting the SPLC.

I need to think up a few good slogans for some signs.

[SovereignMN]

How would a leftist explain this as being any different than someone posting the names of abortion doctors?

[Truth-Bringer]

They missed a few militia organizers:

Associated Regiment of Philadelphia - Benjamin Franklin
Commander of the Boston Cadets - John Hancock
Commander of the Fairfax County Militia - George Washington
County Lieutenant of the Albemarle County Militia - Thomas Jefferson

Only the Boston Cadet have approval from the government to form a militia - and Hancock was fired from the post by the Royal Governor.

LOL. I love it. And you're absolutely right. If the Founders were alive today, they'd be on the SPLC's hit list.

[MelissaWV]

Ben Franklin? That guy would be demonized all over the place. There's no room for a less-than-gorgeous, chubby, balding, bespectacled liberty-lover who also enjoys the company of ladies (a notorious number and variety of them) and telling rude jokes. What's sad is that, out of all of that, the part the public would find fault with is "liberty-lover."

[FrankRep]

They missed a few militia organizers:

Associated Regiment of Philadelphia - Benjamin Franklin
Commander of the Boston Cadets - John Hancock
Commander of the Fairfax County Militia - George Washington
County Lieutenant of the Albemarle County Militia - Thomas Jefferson

Only the Boston Cadet have approval from the government to form a militia - and Hancock was fired from the post by the Royal Governor.

Got it covered.

FEMA Says Founding Fathers Are Terrorists

YouTube - FEMA Says Founding Fathers Are Terrorists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio)

[FrankRep]

Creating Lists Of Political Dissidents: Good Enough For The Nazis, Good Enough For the SPLC


Steve Watson | Infowars.com
April 21st, 2010

http://www.prisonplanet.com/creating-lists-of-political-dissidents-good-enough-for-the-nazis-good-enough-for-the-splc.html

[FrankRep]

:D:D:D


What’s a Guy Gotta Do? (http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/04/whats-a-guy-gotta-do/)


Michael Boldin | Tenth Amendment Center (http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/)
23. Apr, 2010


To get listed on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Hit List (http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=1237)? The SPLC has put together an “alarming” report on the rise of patriot groups – telling us we should worry about them because they’re dangerous (to the regime, that is!)

On this report is a list of 40 people – that they consider to be at the heart of this horrifying movement. Included are Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul, Catherine Bleish of Liberty Restoration Project, Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America, and others.

Not that I consider myself a big fish by any means, but what the heck do I have to DO to get on that list? For four years, Tenth Amendment Center has been bashing federal policies – we advocate mass civil disobedience to unconstitutional federal laws all across the political spectrum, and we’ve been featured in some of the biggest media outlets, numerous times (Fox, CNN, NY Times, AP, Reuters, etc).

Maybe I should push the organization a little more radical? Come on, SPLC, give us a chance, we’re definitely extremists!

Promise you’ll give some consideration next year?


SOURCE:
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/04/whats-a-guy-gotta-do/

[muzzled dogg]

they'd make a great speaker lineup at some liberty convention

[lester1/2jr]

I don't see the significance of this. They are just some group who has a list. who cares?

[paulitics]

I don't see the significance of this. They are just some group who has a list. who cares?

Their connection with homeland security is disturbing.

[catdd]

Just a group with a list and a direct hotline to the DHS. The ADL is just some group too but they currently have a Federal Hate Speech bill on the table that would effectively destroy the 1st amendment, and all it has to do is get signed. These type of groups are a serious threat to liberty - and they won't go away if we ignore them.

[muzzled dogg]

hopefully glenn beck has nothing better to do than run with this

[dannno]

I don't see the significance of this. They are just some group who has a list. who cares?

They are actively denouncing anybody who believes in freedom, they are an enemy of freedom. That is their agenda. They should be watched closely.

[catdd]

They should be watched closely.

And protested loudly.

[lester1/2jr]

They are actively denouncing anybody who believes in freedom, they are an enemy of freedom. That is their agenda. They should be watched closely

why? they can't do anything. the only time I ever hear about them is when white power , excuse me "paleo",guys bring them up

[sluggo]

I wonder where the SPLC gets its money from?

[catdd]

Liberal fools mostly.

[Pericles]

I wonder where the SPLC gets its money from?

They are very effective direct marketers, and the .gov contracts with them for "training" for DHS and FBI seminars.

[sluggo]

They are also a non-profit?

If so, aren't they supposed to be completely transparent with their financial dealings?

I would love to see some of the documents.

[pcosmar]

Wow, this is interesting.

YouTube - splc-part1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceGXwSWZdc)

[Anti Federalist]

why? they can't do anything. the only time I ever hear about them is when white power , excuse me "paleo",guys bring them up

Wait...hold the phone...

Am I reading this right?

Paleo-conservative is a cover term for "white power"?

And you're wrong that they can't do anything but that's already been addressed in this thread.

[catdd]

Paleo-conservative = White Power = racist bigots???

You got some 'splaining to do Lester.

[Mach]

A little off topic, I posted this here awhile back, all of this stuff they (ADL) do is nothing new, they are very, very persistent. I posted this link here before and was called an anti-Semite a few times.


http://www.adl.org/mwd/default.asp

[Anti Federalist]

A little off topic, I posted this here awhile back, all of this stuff they (ADL) do is nothing new, they are very, very persistent. I posted this link here before and was called an anti-Semite a few times.


http://www.adl.org/mwd/default.asp

That was antisemitic how?

[Mach]

That was antisemitic how?

I wish I knew...... all I did was show people what the ADL was "working" on. They scarred me. ;)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=139598

[Danke]

I wish I knew...... all I did was show people what the ADL was "working" on. They scarred me. ;)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=139598

I think they were joking.

[MelissaCato]

OMG The Judge, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul, Stewart Rhodes, Alex Jones, Sheriff Mack, Jack McLamb, Chuck Baldwin, Catherine Bleish, Gary Franchi, Al Garza ....

Gezzzzzzz where's Jesse Ventura and Michael Badnarik and all of us ? LOL :cool:

Maybe we should forward this stuff to the National Guard or Vladimir Putin or at least somebody ranked on our side ... it's apparent someone hates the defenders of the US Constitution. It sounds like they hate the word Patriot. Reminds me of a hit list too.

I hope nothing happens to these people.

I think the traitors are pissed Freedom Watch is going to Cable TV on FBN. :D:D:D

YAY America !!!! :eek::eek::eek: Whoaaaa B'A'Tide Ha Ha Ha

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

[JeNNiF00F00]

why? they can't do anything. the only time I ever hear about them is when white power , excuse me "paleo",guys bring them up

Lame. :rolleyes:

[lester1/2jr]

I stand by my statement. this organization is totaly meaningless, it seems to exist soley for white power "conservatives" to rail against as if it was the boot of a horrible occupying government.

this list and group is a total non issue. you can pretend it is if you enjoy bellyaching about things that have no meaning.

[catdd]

I stand by my statement. this organization is totaly meaningless, it seems to exist soley for white power "conservatives" to rail against as if it was the boot of a horrible occupying government.

this list and group is a total non issue. you can pretend it is if you enjoy bellyaching about things that have no meaning.

Let's get back to why you think Paleoconservatives are White Nationalists.

[Anti Federalist]

I stand by my statement. this organization is totaly meaningless, it seems to exist soley for white power "conservatives" to rail against as if it was the boot of a horrible occupying government.

this list and group is a total non issue. you can pretend it is if you enjoy bellyaching about things that have no meaning.

Are you familiar with the MIAC report?

[lester1/2jr]

I don't think all of them are but the ones who go on and on about the southern poverty center sometimes are. I read takimag and used to post there and sometimes the line is pretty thin between them and racists. I read american conservative too.

SPLC is one of those things I see and skip over because i'm not interested in which is probably what I should have done with this thread lol



Are you familiar with the MIAC report?


no, is that from the DHS?

[catdd]

So you think because the SPLC is a Jewish organization, only an anti Semitic would waste his time with them?
What if they were an Irish group would you still think some paleoconservatives are bigots?
It makes no difference to me if they were Greeks or Samoans, - they would still be a Liberty hating leftist outfit with a hotline to the DHS - and I would still be down on their case every time they hurled a threat or accusation our way.

[pcosmar]

no, is that from the DHS?

It was from the SPLC by way of the DHS.
They are joined at the hip.

They share the same asshole. Shit in the same spot.
;)

[FrankRep]

It was from the SPLC by way of the DHS.
They are joined at the hip.


My Trip to a DHS Fusion Center...and How I Lived to Talk About It (http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/4736)


Jim Capo | John Birch Society (http://www.jbs.org/)
Friday, 10 April 2009



Last week, to further the situation awareness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_awareness) of those in the freedom movement, I followed my own advice (http://jbs.org/index.php/us-constitution-blog/4640) and visited my local Department of Homeland Security Fusion Center. This is my uncensored report. It is written in a "how-to" format for activists not willing to concede defeat to central government operatives in the battle for the hearts and minds of the 700,000 (http://www.jbs.org/index.php/us-constitution-blog/4685) state and local law enforcement officers in our country.
...

He also confirmed that he is familiar with the partisan nature of what is produced as "intelligence reports (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=366)" by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SLPC). He noted that, as one might imagine, many of those going into law enforcement tend to have "conservative" values and would be offended by anyone suggesting that being opposed to abortion, for example, is potentially dangerous. He said that while the bad news is that he honestly couldn't say that something like the MIAC report couldn't happen again (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Virginia_terror_assessment_targets_enormous_crosss ection_0406.html), the good news is that he is confident that good professionals in law enforcement would find a way to get this type of material into the public domain.
...

Agent Myers explained that due to economic conditions the City of Raleigh recently pulled back their one staff member assigned to duty at the ISAAC Center. From the state and local level then, the fusion centers are not immune to financial constraints. He was sympathetic to the job security explanation for the MIAC debacle. He would not be surprised to find out that the SPLC cut and paste (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=905) 8-page MIAC report was issued by someone trying to justify the continuation of their position. I took him as being sincere when he confessed his experience was that law enforcement agencies were just like any other big organization that has people trying to make themselves look useful to higher ups.

[lester1/2jr]

"the SPLC is a Jewish organization" I didn't even know that.

and I'm not very worried about the DHS either. I don't think they want another Waco.

mud slingers can sling mud all they want, I don't give a toss, just be the liberty movement and don't worry about who is mean or nice

[catdd]

Then why would you call paleconservatives White Nationalists (bigots, racists, etc.)?

[Anti Federalist]

no, is that from the DHS?

Indirectly.

It was a creation of the Missouri Information Analysis Center, a hybrid branch of a fed "fusion" center.

It named Ron Paul, directly, as being one of the people supported by dangerous "militia extremists". So was having copies of Freedom To Fascism and Zeigeist. These were posted right alongside the Turner Dairies. It was distributed to state police under a "Unclassified/Law Enforcement Only" heading.

The clear intent was to demonize people within the freedom movement as dangerous extremists to law enforcement.

It was produced with the help and research of the SPLC.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-Modern-Militia-MovementMissouri-MIAC-Strategic-Report-20Feb09-

[Pauls' Revere]

From Article:

The SPLC list of 36 enemies “at the heart of the resurgent movement” opposing big government includes a mix of perfectly reasonable people along with some who have fallen for quirky but harmless conspiracy theories, as well as what the SPLC calls their “enablers”: Fox News Contributor Judge Andrew Napolitano and Congressmen Ron Paul, Michele Bachmann, and Paul Broun. Among those who have made the list are The New American's publisher John McManus, TNA contributor Chuck Baldwin, Gun Owners of America chairman Larry Pratt, WorldNetDaily founder Joe Farah, radio talk-show host Alex Jones, and constitutionalist author Edwin Vieira, Jr. The list includes birthers, truthers, militia members, and other people the SPLC calls political heretics, but not one of which the SPLC accuses of advocating violence or law-breaking. The SPLC attacks many constitutionalist organizations, from the John Birch Society to the Oathkeepers to the Three Percenters:

wonder if they are associated with MAIC?

and the left continues to divide us all

[FrankRep]

wonder if they are associated with MAIC?

The SPLC was the force behind the MIAC report.

ALIPAC Issues Advisory on MIAC and SPLC, ADL
http://www.infowars.com/alipac-issues-advisory-on-miac-and-splc-adl/

Missouri MIAC Documents Scandal Leads to Advisory on SPLC & ADL
http://www.alipac.us/article-4073-thread-1-0.html

[CatherineBleish]

The SPLC was the force behind the MIAC report.

ALIPAC Issues Advisory on MIAC and SPLC, ADL
http://www.infowars.com/alipac-issues-advisory-on-miac-and-splc-adl/

Missouri MIAC Documents Scandal Leads to Advisory on SPLC & ADL
http://www.alipac.us/article-4073-thread-1-0.html


check out http:www.operationdefuse.com/ to get involved with the fight against fusion centers (born out of the MIAC fight).

[ctiger2]

I'm hopeful that one day I will be on this list too.

[devil21]

SPLC is AIPAC's attack dog. Nothing more, nothing less.

[lester1/2jr]

well there is such a thing as domestic terrorism and it does come from these areas.

Am I the only one who remebers timothy mcveigh? how about the huturu militia or whatever they are called?

the govt would be negligent in allowing another Ok city

[catdd]

So now you're saying paleoconservatism is a breeding ground for domestic terrorism and the government should keep us under close observation.
What are you by the way?

[Kylie]

well there is such a thing as domestic terrorism and it does come from these areas.

Am I the only one who remebers timothy mcveigh? how about the huturu militia or whatever they are called?

the govt would be negligent in allowing another Ok city



And you are so trusting of your government that you would believe they had NOTHING to do with either one of these situations?

We have CIA over in Iran screwing with their government, but you don't think they would do the same to our own?

[pcosmar]

well there is such a thing as domestic terrorism and it does come from these areas.

Am I the only one who remebers timothy mcveigh? how about the huturu militia or whatever they are called?

the govt would be negligent in allowing another Ok city

Well since McVeigh worked for the government and the Government staged OKCBOMB, I have questions about what they will "allow".
As to the Hutaree, I am hoping those Patriot POWs are released. There is no case, other than propaganda , and the Government bomb maker.

[lester1/2jr]

I don't think our government had anything to do with the oklahoma city bombing besides how the gulf war and waco inspired it no


So now you're saying paleoconservatism is a breeding ground for domestic terrorism and the government should keep us under close observation.

well if they would stop overstepping their reach as a government they probably wouldn't but yes, it's part of their responsibility. you think they should ignore it?


What are you by the way?

an cap type libertarian

[catdd]

[QUOTE=lester1/2jr;2664028]
"you think they should ignore it?"


Do I think the government should ignore what, exactly?

[pcosmar]

I don't think

That is becoming apparent.

A very long and old documentary,
Coverup in Oklahoma (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7268764172883869415#)

[lester1/2jr]

catdd- do you think our government should ignore potential terrorist threats? I mean, I think call me crazy here, but it would have been better to NOT have had OK city and/or 9/11.

If you'll recall, people were pretty upset about the government "missing the warning signs" on the latter

[catdd]

I resent the way you are taking sides with the SPLC against the liberty movement and blaming palecons for domestic terrorism. You sound like a statist and its making me very suspicious of you.
Don't you think the government WANTS you to think exactly what you are thinking right now?

[Deborah K]

http://www.dustinland.com/dlands/dland.laziness.jpg





This about sums it up for me.

[FrankRep]

check out http:www.operationdefuse.com/ to get involved with the fight against fusion centers (born out of the MIAC fight).

Catherine Bleish, you're famous! SPLC is scared of you.

[Pericles]

well there is such a thing as domestic terrorism and it does come from these areas.

Am I the only one who remebers timothy mcveigh? how about the huturu militia or whatever they are called?

the govt would be negligent in allowing another Ok city

Care to tell us why the SPLC does not consider the Earth Liberation Front

http://www.elfpressoffice.org/elffaqs.html

a hate or terrorist group?

" On behalf of the lynx, five buildings and four ski lifts at Vail were reduced to ashes on the night of Sunday, October 18th. Vail, Inc. is already the largest ski operation in North America and now wants to expand even further. The 12 miles of roads and 885 acres of clearcuts will ruin the last, best lynx habitat in the state. Putting profits ahead of Colorado's wildlife will not be tolerated. This action is just a warning. We will be back if this greedy corporation continues to trespass into wild and unroaded areas. For your safety and convenience, we strongly advise skiers to choose other destinations until Vail cancels its inexcusable plans for expansion.
- Earth Liberation Front"
On December 27, 1998, the ELF burned down the corporate headquarters of U.S. Forest Industries in Medford, Oregon. This particular target served as the corporate headquarters for four mills: a White City veneer mill and a Grants Pass plywood mill in Oregon, a sawmill in Florida and a studmill in Colorado. The action caused an estimated $500,000-$800,000 in damages to U.S. Forest Industries. The communique sent by the ELF taking credit for this action stated:
" To celebrate the holidays we decided on a bonfire. Unfortunately for U.S. Forest Industries it was at their corporate headquarters office.
On the foggy night after Christmas, when everyone was digesting their turkey and pie, Santa's ELFs dropped two five-gallon buckets of diesel/unleaded mix and a gallon jug with cigarette delays; which proved to be more than enough to get this party started.
This was in retribution for all the wild forests and animals lost to feed the wallets of greedy fucks like Jerry Bramwell, U.S.F.I. president and it is a warning to all others responsible, we do not sleep and we won't quit."
Just under a year later, on December 25, 1999, the ELF targeted the Northwest regional headquarters of Boise Cascade in Monmouth, Oregon. A $1 million fire set by the ELF burned the 8,000-square-foot building to the ground. A few days after the fire the ELF sent the following communique:
" Boise Cascade has been very naughty. After ravaging the forests of the Pacific Northwest, Boise Cascade now looks towards the virgin forests of Chile. Early Christmas morning, elves left coal in Boise Cascade's stocking. Four buckets of diesel and gas with kitchen timer delay destroyed their regional headquarters in Monmouth, Oregon. Let this be a lesson to all greedy multinational corporations who don't respect their ecosystems. The elves are watching. - Earth Liberation Front"


Just for starters ..

[lester1/2jr]

I don't know. I don't know anythign about it. i know that if there was another tim mcveigh everyone would be wondering why the feds were asleep at the switch the way they were on 9/11.


I resent the way you are taking sides with the SPLC

so be resentful. what difference does that make? the government is responsible for stopping terrorist attacks and there are some likely suspects in the militia movement.

[pcosmar]

I don't know. I don't know anythign about it. i know that if there was another tim mcveigh everyone would be wondering why the feds were asleep at the switch the way they were on 9/11.



so be resentful. what difference does that make? the government is responsible for stopping terrorist attacks and there are some likely suspects in the militia movement.

You are so full of shit you aren't even funny.
Another Tin McVeigh? There are lots of them in the US Army and CIA.
McVeigh was not militia or even from the larger Patriot Movement, He was run off from everywhere he tried to infiltrate.

the government is responsible for stopping terrorist attacks
The government is the main perpetrator of terrorism.

The militia is the last defense.

[catdd]

[QUOTE=lester1/2jr;2664155

"the government is responsible for stopping terrorist attacks and there are some likely suspects in the militia movement"

You know all about the right wing but next to nothing about the left. Do you choose to be that way?

[Anti Federalist]

catdd- do you think our government should ignore potential terrorist threats? I mean, I think call me crazy here, but it would have been better to NOT have had OK city and/or 9/11.

If you'll recall, people were pretty upset about the government "missing the warning signs" on the latter

You profess to be an ana/cap - libertarian, but yet you support the idea of an all knowing, exceedingly intrusive police state "monitoring" everybody to prevent terrorism?

Fail.

[lester1/2jr]

sorry I don't want to be killed by domestic terrorism

[catdd]

You want to see domestic terrorism take a walk through East LA tonight and the Obama supporters will enlighten you.

[pcosmar]

sorry I don't want to be killed by domestic terrorism

:rolleyes:
Ron Paul and his supporters are Domestic Terrorists.

YouTube - Domestic Terrorist Test; Are you and Glenn Beck one? MIAC Report: Ron Paul Supporters Terrorists? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7CvLvwFjMc)

[Anti Federalist]

sorry I don't want to be killed by domestic terrorism

Oh that's fine, just don't claim to be any kind of freedom loving ana/cap libertarian or even constitutional conservative.

The threat from internal "terrorism" is greatest from the left.

Throughout the 1960s and 1970s there were multiple bombings, shootings, assassination attempts on the House floor, riots in which whole cities burned down.

The Unabomber could be considered an "anarchist".

As Pericles already noted there have been numerous attacks form various earth protecting "extremist" groups.

All of these are not brought up by SPLC. They have a political agenda, they are a propaganda outlet that has the government's full attention, in order to focus on a political enemy that is not a threat.

Historically, your self professed description of your philosophy is a greater threat than any militia.

[lester1/2jr]

so you do think the government should monitor leftists activities

[Anti Federalist]

so you do think the government should monitor leftists activities

I don't think the government should be "monitoring" anybody.

The very idea, the very phrase, is repulsive to liberty.

The odds of getting killed in a terrorist act are less than your odds of getting killed by a lightening strike.

I'll take my chances with freedom, thank you.

Let the system do the only thing it can do, figure out what happened after the fact.

[Pericles]

sorry I don't want to be killed by domestic terrorism

But, you're OK with being killed by foreign terrorism?

[lester1/2jr]

I had two members of my family very nearly killed on 9/11. I'm not going to "take my chances with liberty". it almost sunk our economy too. you can't just not have an apparatus to prevent possible terrorist attacks.

[amy31416]

I had two members of my family very early killed on 9/11. I'm not going to "take my chances with liberty". it almost sunk our economy too. you can't just not have an apparatus to prevent possible terrorist attacks.

You mean an apparatus like the Constitution that should be able to restrain our government from provoking or inciting terrorism in the first place?

I'm sorry that you had family members that were victims, but understand that they were victims of our foreign policy and that the only thing that will change that is living up to the standards that we allegedly espouse--it will not change if we simply put more scanners in airports or bomb more Middle Eastern countries.

People don't hate the US for our "freedoms," right? Yet you seem to be rallying for more of a lockdown on freedom for security. Benjamin Franklin had a pretty good quote on that.

[lester1/2jr]

corrected: that should be "nearly" not early. they were not killed. my dad was on the ground and his wife was in the stairwell in tower two when the second plane hit and got out safe

I agree that our foreign policy is the cause of terrorism but that doesn't mean you have no mechanism for stopping potential attacks. that's like saying the economy is so good we don't need to foil bank robberies or if it were better people wouldn't need to rob banks.

[amy31416]

corrected: that should be "nearly" not early. they were not killed. my dad was on the ground and his wife was in the stairwell in tower two when the second plane hit and got out safe

I agree that our foreign policy is the cause of terrorism but that doesn't mean you have no mechanism for stopping potential attacks. that's like saying the economy is so good we don't need to foil bank robberies or if it were better people wouldn't need to rob banks.

Please detail what freedoms you suggest we should trade for such security.

[Anti Federalist]

I had two members of my family very nearly killed on 9/11. I'm not going to "take my chances with liberty". it almost sunk our economy too. you can't just not have an apparatus to prevent possible terrorist attacks.

Oh, OK.

Yes, we have a very cumbersome and invasive and freedom destroying apparatus in place to deal with "terrorism".

The next time a government stooge, (the Undies bomber) tries that stunt with some binary explosives stuffed up his ass, we'll all be getting body cavity searches at the airport.

So, according to you in this thread, paleoconservatives are just a cover front for white supremacists and the massive government Leviathan is necessary to keep you safe from terrorism.

Well, you're either trolling us or so far from understanding what real liberty is that there is little hope of trying to convince you otherwise.

[paulitics]

I had two members of my family very nearly killed on 9/11. I'm not going to "take my chances with liberty". it almost sunk our economy too. you can't just not have an apparatus to prevent possible terrorist attacks.

You have too much trust in government. There is no way you are any where close to being an ancap, libertarian or even conservative. You're views are closer to the MSM's views, and that is pretty extreme on the statist and antiliberty front.

[lester1/2jr]

yeah because i don't agree with you I'm a leftist.

like I care what you think.


paleoconservatives are just a cover front for white supremacists and the massive government Leviathan is necessary to keep you safe from terrorism

no, but some of them are. some out and out racists are also paleo cons. that doesn't mean ALL paleo cons are racists. have a sense of humor about the fact that you resemble them in some ways. my views put me superficially in the same camp as idiots who disrupt world trade conferences and so forth, I don't give a toss

[Truth-Bringer]

I had two members of my family very nearly killed on 9/11.

Clearly, the emotional trauma of that event is clouding your ability to properly reason.


I'm not going to "take my chances with liberty".

He just told you the truth - that you have a greater risk of being struck by lightning than killed in a terrorist attack. Do you huddle in a closet and cry like a baby during a thunderstorm?

You don't have any right to deprive anyone else of liberty. If you want to stay in a panic room 24/7, that's your choice and you have the right to do that. But you don't have the right to tell the rest of us what we have to do to make you feel better.


it almost sunk our economy too.

Only because our economy is weakened by central banking, fiat currency, high and unconstitutional taxes and many irrational regulations.


you can't just not have an apparatus to prevent possible terrorist attacks.

The question you fail to ask is WHY DID THEY ATTACK US? It's because we're in their territory and giving aid to repressive governments in the region. If we will leave and declare neutrality, there will no longer be a reason for terrorists to try and attack us.

[lester1/2jr]

The question you fail to ask is WHY DID THEY ATTACK US?

I didn't fail to ask that. I acknowledge it. Our foreign policy is why the terrorists want to kill us. I frickin know that. that's called a root cause. that doesn't mean you don't ALSO have to have security.

agitating for us to have a more sensible foreign policy is not going to stop the next terror attack. that requires actual people doing actual investigations and so forth. certainly they would have alot less to do if we stayed out of the middle east but again, we are taking prevention not root causes.


Only because our economy is weakened by central banking, fiat currency, high and unconstitutional taxes and many irrational regulations.


yeah that's why the stock market dropped on 9/11. it had nothing to do with what was going on outside!

[libertygrl]

Do we just have to sit around and take this kind of shit from the ADL and SPLC?

It's one thing to have groups that make up such lists just to solicit money, but it's another when they have the ear of the government. When policy is created based on their testimony in Congress, they put American citizens at serious risk.

Maybe we need to put pressure on our representatives and provide them with information so that the SPLC can be investigated. Wish someone could do to them what was done to ACORN (Although I heard that they never went away, they just came back under a different name.) AJ should do a documentary about SPLC.

[catdd]

The problem is that we have no media outlet willing to go up against them; hell, even FOX uses their drivel as the lfinal word on militias and domestic terrorism.
But pressuring representatives is good and I also suggested protesting them at Tea Parties.
I've been thinking of some good slogans for signs.

[amy31416]

I didn't fail to ask that. I acknowledge it. Our foreign policy is why the terrorists want to kill us. I frickin know that. that's called a root cause. that doesn't mean you don't ALSO have to have security.

agitating for us to have a more sensible foreign policy is not going to stop the next terror attack. that requires actual people doing actual investigations and so forth. certainly they would have alot less to do if we stayed out of the middle east but again, we are taking prevention not root causes.



yeah that's why the stock market dropped on 9/11. it had nothing to do with what was going on outside!

Why won't you specify exactly what freedoms are worth giving up for the security you seek?

[lester1/2jr]

so you don't thin they shold at all try to prevent terorrist attacks?

If I have knoweldge of a terorist attack that is definately going to happen I shouldn't tell anybody and no one should try and prevent it OKAY

[amy31416]

so you don't thin they shold at all try to prevent terorrist attacks?

If I have knoweldge of a terorist attack that is definately going to happen I shouldn't tell anybody and no one should try and prevent it OKAY

How many of our liberties are already being violated in the name of security? Start with the Patriot Act, please.

Given that they're already "protecting" us from "terrorists," why was the underwear bomber stopped by a foreign citizen and not our beloved government who was actually warned about his activities?

Yet you seem to be suggesting that we should give our government more control over our lives, no matter how incompetent or evil (your choice), they've proven themselves to be.

What conclusion should I draw about you based on that?

[lester1/2jr]

so why have traffic lights? why not liberty solve it? you are not being sensical here

[amy31416]

so why have traffic lights? why not liberty solve it? you are not being sensical here

Are you talking to me, someone else or yourself? Have you had coffee yet today?

[lester1/2jr]

I'm asking a simle question: why have traffic lights? why not let people arrive at the decision of when to stop and go by working it out among themselves without having their paychecks stolen from to pay for state light fascism?

just a question. got an answer?

[bruce leeroy]

I'm asking a simle question: why have traffic lights? why not let people arrive at the decision of when to stop and go by working it out among themselves without having their paychecks stolen from to pay for state light fascism?

just a question. got an answer?


you sound just like those brady bunch morons when they ask "why not let civilians have nuclear weapons?"

[pcosmar]

I'm asking a simle question: why have traffic lights? why not let people arrive at the decision of when to stop and go by working it out among themselves without having their paychecks stolen from to pay for state light fascism?

just a question. got an answer?

And this has what to do with the SPLC? Or their connections to and influence with Law Enforcement?

That is the focus of this thread.
What is your purpose in attempted derailing of it?

[amy31416]

I'm asking a simle question: why have traffic lights? why not let people arrive at the decision of when to stop and go by working it out among themselves without having their paychecks stolen from to pay for state light fascism?

just a question. got an answer?

Exactly what rights are you willing to give up for this alleged security?

Traffic lights have nothing to do with that, by the way and that's a pretty lame attempt to weasel out of answering a legitimate question that has apparently backed you into a corner.

[lester1/2jr]

I'm not backed into the corner ma'am. you are.

still waiting.

if you can understand the need for traffic lights it shouldn't be to much to accept that there is a need for security outside of what will hopefully one day be accomplished by a more prudent foreign policy.

why have third base mandatory in baseball? why not run home if you think you can make it/ why have refs at all?

[pcosmar]

Another writers take on it here,
http://townhall.com/columnists/ByronYork/2010/04/26/whats_behind_the_anti-tea_party_hate_narrative?page=full&comments=true


How did this story line grow? Many of the claims that extremism is on the rise in America originate in research done by the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based group that for nearly 40 years has tracked what it says is the growing threat of intolerance in the United States. These days, the SPLC is issuing new warnings of new threats. But today's warnings sound an awful lot like those of the past.

In 1989, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of skinheads, saying, "Not since the height of Klan activity during the civil-rights era has there been a white supremacist group so obsessed with violence."

In 1992, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of other white supremacist groups, which it claimed had grown by 27 percent from the year before.

In 1995, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of right-wing militias.

In 1998, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of Internet-based hate groups that, according to one press account, had "created the biggest surge in hate in America in years."

In 1999, the SPLC warned that the growing threat of Web-based hate groups was growing even more, with a 60 percent increase from the year before.

In 2002, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of post-Sept. 11 hate groups, which it said had grown 12 percent between 2000 and 2001.

In 2004, the SPLC warned (again) of the growing threat of skinhead groups, whose numbers it said had doubled in the previous year.

In 2008, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of hate groups overall, whose number it said increased 48 percent since 2000.

And in 2010, just a few weeks ago, the SPLC warned of the growing threat of "patriot" groups, which it said increased by 244 percent in 2009.

In the world of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the threat is always growing. Ronald Reagan's policies led to a growing threat. The first Gulf War led to a growing threat. The election of Bill Clinton led to a growing threat. The Internet led to a growing threat. Sept. 11 led to a growing threat. The war in Iraq led to a growing threat. Is it any wonder that Obama's presidency has, in the SPLC's estimation, led to a growing threat?

Hate groups do exist across the political spectrum, and have for a long time. But they have nothing to do with the expressions of frustration over deficits, taxes and Obamacare that we have heard at so many Tea Party gatherings. That frustration, felt by Republicans, independents and even some Democrats, is an entirely mainstream reaction to the sharply activist course the president and congressional leadership have taken. While the level of frustration is indeed a threat, it is a political threat. Ask Democrats running in this November's elections.

It's important to distinguish between a political threat and a physical one. As Clinton might say, the hate accusers should watch their words.

[amy31416]

I'm not backed into the corner ma'am. you are.

still waiting

LOL

Traffic lights are a convenience that help reduce traffic accidents, the benefits are proven and effective and supported locally. A traffic light has never subverted anyone's rights, nor used force, nor smeared anyone's character. A traffic light has never shot a citizen, gunned down an innocent person or strip-searched anyone at an airport. A traffic light is a tool to help direct the flow of traffic and are supported, or not supported by the local community who can have a say as to where and how they're used.

Now, do tell what this has to do with the SPLC and you giving up your rights so big-daddy government can keep you safe from Osama bin Laden (who your beloved gov't let escape at Tora Bora.)

Why won't you answer my question about what rights you'll give up for security?

[lester1/2jr]

the point is their needs to be rules to a society. you can't allow people to be killed in buildings as a protest against the government. I want the government to protect me against another 9/11 or OK city. I think it would have been advantageous to have prevented those through some means.

If we had a better economy , less people would turn to crime. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have police.

I am willing to give up the decision of when to go and when to stop at an intersection to the government. So I'm a leftist to some people. fine.

[amy31416]

I'm not backed into the corner ma'am. you are.

still waiting.

if you can understand the need for traffic lights it shouldn't be to much to accept that there is a need for security outside of what will hopefully one day be accomplished by a more prudent foreign policy.

why have third base mandatory in baseball? why not run home if you think you can make it/ why have refs at all?

I see you edited:

1. We already have a ton of "security."

2. You don't have to play baseball if you don't like 3rd base or the refs. You don't have a Constitutionally protected right to play baseball whatever way you want.

We do, however, have Constitutionally protected rights that are violated in the name of this alleged "security." Just like freedom of speech means that some people will say some things you don't want to hear, having rights that make this a free society means that there always has been and always will be, risks.

And YOU don't have the right to infringe on MY rights because you stay awake trembling at night just waiting for a terrorist to attack. Personally, I'll take the very minimal risks and live freely.

Are you a man or not? If so, buck up and quit acting like a child who needs a nanny to check under the bed for bogeymen.

[lester1/2jr]

And YOU don't have the right to infringe on MY rights because you stay awake trembling at night just waiting for a terrorist to attack. Personally, I'll take the very minimal risks and live freely.

yeah because you probably live in snoresville flyover country where nothing happens. I live in on the east coast where alot of these nuts operate. drive through the big dig in boston sometime you'll see it's not going to take much to bring that thing down. then the economy goes down with it. it's worth taking the time to prevent as it is bad rather than good when terrorism occurs

[amy31416]

the point is their needs to be rules to a society. you can't allow people to be killed in buildings as a protest against the government. I want the government to protect me against another 9/11 or OK city. I think it would have been advantageous to have prevented those through some means.

If we had a better economy , less people would turn to crime. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have police.

I am willing to give up the decision of when to go and when to stop at an intersection to the government. So I'm a leftist to some people. fine.

Once again, since you don't seem to get it:

Your beloved government had forewarning of 9/11. THEY DID NOTHING TO STOP IT AND REACTED BY KILLING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.

Your beloved government had forewarning of the underwear bomber. THEY DID NOTHING TO STOP IT--A CIVILIAN STOPPED IT. These scanners will NOT stop someone from trying it again.

Your beloved government had forewarning that the Ft. Hood shooter was unstable and in contact with a radical mullah. Need I go on?

Your beloved government set up a scenario to allegedly lure the Hutaree into illegal acts--and you say "GIMMIE MORE!" Yay! Now I'm finally safe!

You have an exceedingly shallow understanding of your rights on both a practical and philosophical level. I don't think you're necessarily a leftist, I just think you need to put on your big-boy pants, man up and stop being such a whimpering sop who needs his daddy.

[amy31416]

yeah because you probably live in snoresville flyover country where nothing happens. I live in on the east coast where alot of these nuts operate. drive through the big dig in boston sometime you'll see it's not going to take much to bring that thing down. then the economy goes down with it. it's worth taking the time to prevent as it is bad rather than good when terrorism occurs

I lived on the East Coast for years in a very dangerous city, during 9/11, during the anthrax attacks and during the DC sniper shootings. Yet I still value my rights. Go figure.

[lester1/2jr]

Your beloved government had forewarning of 9/11. THEY DID NOTHING TO STOP IT

right. which is exactly what you would have had them do! after all we DESERVE to be killed in terrorist attacks because of our politicians insistence on an interventionist foreign policy. that's basically what you guys are saying


look, I don't doubt the government is incompetent, but that doesn't mean we just don't have protection against our lives ending in a terrorist attacks. If you have foreknowledge of a tim mcveigh style attack there should be a government agency that you can go to with that information in order to prevent it.

also, sorry if I offended anyone with the "snoresville flyover country" remark. I was trying to be colorful. I respect the rural peoples, etc

[pcosmar]

. If you have foreknowledge of a [<blank>} style attack there should be a government agency that you can go to with that information in order to prevent it.


As long as the information is not fabricated or distorted.

What government agency do you report a government agency to? What good would it do?

[LibertyMage]

So what are you doing to rubuke it?

[amy31416]

right. which is exactly what you would have had them do! after all we DESERVE to be killed in terrorist attacks because of our politicians insistence on an interventionist foreign policy. that's basically what you guys are saying

Absolute bullshit. They already had more than enough powers entrusted to them to stop those people from boarding planes and they chose to ignore it. They had even MORE authority when the underwear bomber boarded a plane bound for the US and they chose to ignore it.

Now, how much more authority can you give an incompetent or evil government before you'll finally be "safe?"



look, I don't doubt the government is incompetent, but that doesn't mean we just don't have protection against our lives ending in a terrorist attacks. If you have foreknowledge of a tim mcveigh style attack there should be a government agency that you can go to with that information in order to prevent it.

We have such an agency. Perhaps you've heard of the FBI? Or are you looking for a new "pre-crime" government agency? Perhaps a literal force of "thought police?"


also, sorry if I offended anyone with the "snoresville flyover country" remark. I was trying to be colorful. I respect the rural peoples, etc

That's about the least offensive thing you've said in this exchange.

[lester1/2jr]

look I'm sorry i want to stop terrorist attacks okay? I 'm very sorry.

Obviously there is no possible way to prevent acts like OK city. it can't be done. we have no choice but to accept our governments foreign policy results. we should immediately stop spending any money on that and put it towards different welfare/warfare items. I've seen the light

[amy31416]

look I'm sorry i want to stop terrorist attacks okay? I 'm very sorry.

Obviously there is no possible way to prevent acts like OK city. it can't be done. we have no choice but to accept our governments foreign policy results. we should immediately stop spending any money on that and put it towards different welfare/warfare items. I've seen the light

And the implication is that I want terrorist attacks, despite the fact that those same terrorist attacks inevitably lead to an erosion of our rights. That's logical.

But, I learned one thing about arguments, and that is to let it go with the other person being able to have some semblance of dignity--and if you need to believe that I'm pro-terrorist attacks in order to "win" then so be it.

[pcosmar]

look I'm sorry i want to stop terrorist attacks okay? I 'm very sorry.

Obviously there is no possible way to prevent acts like OK city. it can't be done. we have no choice but to accept our governments foreign policy results. we should immediately stop spending any money on that and put it towards different welfare/warfare items. I've seen the light

The US Government Staged the OKC bombing.
How do you plan to prevent that?

Coverup in Oklahoma (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7268764172883869415#)

[lester1/2jr]

amy- I'm saying you are too much of an ideologue to do what is obvious to anyone. you can't just always give liberty as your answer as with traffic lights and baseball, you have to have OTHER measures in place.

even if we were to in some miracle of miracles adopt a non moronic foreign policy, we would still have to have some security in place.

if you practice military manuvers in the woods and have a website saying "we are going to kill you" you have to expect some blowback from society.

[tremendoustie]

yeah because you probably live in snoresville flyover country where nothing happens. I live in on the east coast where alot of these nuts operate. drive through the big dig in boston sometime you'll see it's not going to take much to bring that thing down. then the economy goes down with it. it's worth taking the time to prevent as it is bad rather than good when terrorism occurs

Then I suggest you donate your own money towards this cause, and start a fund for others to do so. If you don't want to pay for it, and you're too scared to live on the east coast, move to "snoresville".

I don't suggest you mug everyone in snoresville to pay for your security projects.

[tremendoustie]

I'm asking a simle question: why have traffic lights? why not let people arrive at the decision of when to stop and go by working it out among themselves without having their paychecks stolen from to pay for state light fascism?

just a question. got an answer?

Yep, roads should be built using voluntary, rather than coersive means, like they used to be.

Here's an article on it: http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/klein.majewski.turnpikes (http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/klein.majewski.turnpikes)

A book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=jmLzWJ3qRNEC&pg=PT7&dq=privatizing+roads&lr=&cd=2#v=onepage&q=privatizing%20roads&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=jmLzWJ3qRNEC&pg=PT7&dq=privatizing+roads&lr=&cd=2#v=onepage&q=privatizing%20roads&f=false)

Another book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=sYAxKrpSjOsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=street+smart&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=sYAxKrpSjOsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=street+smart&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

[tremendoustie]

I want the government to protect me against another 9/11 or OK city.

I'd be willing to pay someone for effective security. The government's the last place I'd look for it, however.

Your dollar would go a lot farther if you formed a private security firm.

[tremendoustie]

do you think our government should ignore potential terrorist threats?

Well, really, they should give the money back to the people, and let the people decide how they want to use their resources to address potential terrorist threats.

Barring that, I suppose it depends what you mean by "potential terrorist threats". If a person is almost finished building a bomb and has the stated intent to detonate it, I have no problem with them (or anyone) stopping that person.

Most of the time the government goes after political enemies, commits or creates terrorism itself, or otherwise absues the privacy rights and liberties of millions of peaceful individuals.

[michaelwise]

Maybe we should post our own communist hit list.