The Motive

[pcosmar]

This was included as one link in a longer piece here,
Southern Poverty Law Center: Liars Ca$hing in
http://www.devvy.com/new_site/splc_041910.html

It is a long piece, with much information and links to several rabbit trails.

But this sums up much.
The Motive
http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt_12.htm


"Governments, in order to perpetuate themselves, will sacrifice 400-500 people without a second thought."
— 14-year DEA veteran Basil Abbott

To understand the motive behind the Oklahoma City bombing, one must understand the political situation in the country at the time.

In 1989, with the fall of the Berlin Wall, the Cold War was officially over. The intelligence community was in danger of losing its appropriations; it needed a new mission

Please take the time to read and comprehend the scale of this.

They are doing it again. (some will say ,,still)

eyes and ears open

[amy31416]

This is a pretty interesting video:

YouTube - When False Flags Don't Fly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgv39GtcJ0)

[pcosmar]

Good video too.
If we can wake the slumbering masses, and break the media strangle hold, there may be some hope.

Some are aware. But not in the numbers needed,, Yet.

[pcosmar]

bump for reading and consideration.

[pcosmar]

///

[Deborah K]

Morris Dees doesn't need your financial support. The SPLC is already the wealthiest civil rights group in America, though this letter quite naturally omits that fact. Other solicitations have been more flagrantly misleading. One pitch, sent out in 1995-when the Center had more than $60 million in reserves-informed would-be donors that the "strain on our current operating budget is the greatest in our 25-year history." Back in 1978, when the Center had less than $10 million, Dees promised that his organization would quit fund-raising and live off interest as soon as its endowment hit $55 million. But as it approached that figure, the SPLC upped the bar to $100 million, a sum that, one 1989 newsletter promised, would allow the Center "to cease the costly and often unreliable task of fund raising. " Today, the SPLC's treasury bulges with $120 million, and it spends twice as much on fund-raising-$5.76 million last year-as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses. The American Institute of Philanthropy gives the Center one of the worst ratings of any group it monitors, estimating that the SPLC could operate for 4.6 years without making another tax-exempt nickel from its investments or raising another tax-deductible cent from well-meaning "people like you."

The SPLC's "other important work justice" consists mainly in spying on private citizens who belong to "hate groups," sharing its files with law-enforcement agencies, and suing the most prominent of these groups for crimes committed independently by their members-a practice that, however seemingly justified, should give civil libertarians pause. The legal strategy employed by Dees could have put the Black Panther Party out of business or bankrupted the New England Emigrant Aid Company in retaliation for crimes committed by John Brown. What the Center's other work for justice does not include is anything that might be considered controversial by donors. According to Millard Farmer, the Center largely stopped taking death-penalty cases for fear that too visible an opposition to capital punishment would scare off potential contributors. In 1986, the Center's entire legal staff quit in protest of Dees's refusal to address issues-such as homelessness, voter registration, and affirmative action-that they considered far more pertinent to poor minorities, if far less marketable to affluent benefactors, than fighting the KKK. Another lawyer, Gloria Browne, who resigned a few years later, told reporters that the Center's programs were calculated to cash in on "black pain and white guilt." Asked in 1994 if the SPLC itself, whose leadership consists almost entirely of white men, was in need of an affirmative action policy, Dees replied that "probably the most discriminated people in America today are white men when it comes to jobs."

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/The%20Church%20of%20Morris%20Dees.html

[pcosmar]

evening bump.

[TinCanToNA]

I've been skimming through the second link you posted, and I have to say that I have found nothing convincing so far. Can you highlight a few of its stronger points, in case I missed them?

[pcosmar]

I've been skimming through the second link you posted, and I have to say that I have found nothing convincing so far. Can you highlight a few of its stronger points, in case I missed them?

:confused:

You find nothing convincing. I would suggest reading it.
but here are a couple,,bits.


The primary group which stands in the way of plans of the transnational corporate fascist cabal today is a group of Americans who call themselves Patriots. These Patriots — numbering roughly five million men and women — are comprised of approximately 400,000 individuals who belong to the militant arm: the militia.

These individuals are increasingly opting out of the federal system. They are establishing precedents for their own governance, with names like Sovereign Citizenship, States' Rights and County Rule.

Some are relinquishing their Social Security cards. Others refuse to pay income taxes, which they insist are in direct contravention of the Constitution, and an illegal outgrowth of the privately-owned Federal Reserve. Many are buying gold and silver. Some are even issuing their own currencies.

They point out the importance our founding fathers attributed to the Second Amendment — the right to bear arms — as the first and final bastion against a tyrannical government. Ultimately, they are willing to defend themselves against a increasingly oppressive federal system.

To the government, such a movement must not be allowed to grow teeth, as did the Anti-War movement of the 1960s, or the anti-corporate labor movement of the 1930s. Distrusting the Federal Reserve, believed by some to have engineered the Great Depression, many of these communities began issuing their own money — as many as 1,500 different currencies. As journalist Jon Rappaport notes:

These events created anxiety for the wealthy one percent of the country. Things might have gotten out of hand. There was a danger of mass rebellion, decentralization, a power shift downward, and so on. World War Two not only solved a job crises, it reunified the nation around an external threat. It temporarily eliminated the possibility of the disintegration of the body politic.[1203]

Like the aforementioned outrage-incidents, the Plutocracy required a tragedy to manipulate public opinion. The Oklahoma City bombing served this purpose in the most sublime fashion. In the aftermath of that tragedy, the ruling elite sought to unify the nation around an internal threat — dressed up and repackaged in the form of the Patriot/Militia Movement.


Freeh's alarmist comments impart the genuine concern which the ruling elite have for the growth of the Patriot/Militia Movement. As Colby told DeCamp:

"It is not because these people are armed, that America need be concerned," Bill explained to my surprise. "It is not that these people stockpile weapons and have para-military training sessions, that they are dangerous" Colby continued.…

"They are dangerous, John, because there are so many of them. It is one thing to have a few nuts or dissidents. They can be dealt with, justly or otherwise, so that they do not pose a danger to the system. It is quite another situation when you have a true movement — millions of citizens — believing something, particularly when the movement is made up of society's average, successful citizens.


Now the average citizen watches the FBI march into Waco with tanks and burn women and children, while President Clinton and the mass-media dismiss them as "just a bunch of whackos." At the same time he turns around and watches his neighbor's door kicked in by goon squads to seize piddling amounts of contraband, while his home and assets are seized without ever being charged with a crime, then given to law-enforcement agencies who divide up the bounty amongst themselves.

Compelled to take a closer look at the Patriot/Militia movement, he begins to understand that the Federal Reserve is a sham. He realizes that the politics of the nation were corporatized long ago, that his vote has no meaning.

He begins to understand that the country is actually controlled by corporate concerns who use the military and intelligence apparatus to do its bidding.

He learns how the CIA has illegally intervened and destroyed the sovereignty of dozens of nations around the world, and assisted in the murder of countless millions.

He watches with alarm as new laws are being added every day to restrict his Constitutional rights.

While his pay check is no longer enough to support his family, he wonders what happened to the Savings and Loans, and to those wealthy few who were never prosecuted.

While he sees his job being sent overseas to take advantage of some poor peasant who slaves for pennies a day, his own country is slowly being sold off piecemeal.

Unlike the mass of dumbed-down, TVed-out, passive citizens, he finally decides to join a group of people who are willing to do something about it.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Patriot/Militia Movement is more than just a fringe element of Right-wing conspiracy nuts. While it still contains individuals who are somewhat myopic concerning social welfare issues and environmental concerns, younger people are coming into the movement every day.

Increasingly, this group represents a broad spectrum of Americans concerned about governmental corruption and the loss of their Constitutional rights. Far from being impotent, as Louis Freeh asserts, the Patriot/Militia Movement represents a threat to an establishment seeking to maintain corrupt control over its citizenry at all costs

There is also reference to this,
Report From Iron Mountain
http://projectcamelot.org/Report_from_Iron_Mountain.pdf

I would also suggest reading the whole article.
http://www.devvy.com/new_site/splc_041910.html

This is not something to be "skimmed".

[TinCanToNA]

None of that is evidence at all of anything. It's just narrative-building speculation. You're saying the OKC bombing was a false-flag attack, so present your case.

EDIT -- I'm not going to take the time to read hundreds of pages of speculation and bullshit. Either there are facts to support your conclusion or there are none.

[pcosmar]

None of that is evidence at all of anything. It's just narrative-building speclation. You're saying the OKC bombing was a false-flag attack, so present your case.

EDIT -- I'm not going to take the time to read hundreds of pages of speculation and bullshit. Either there are facts to support your conclusion or there are none.

Oh, I do believe that, but can you point to anywhere in this thread that I said that?

the main article was dealing with the SPLC, The OKC bombing is only a part of that.
But there is much on that issue as well.

YouTube - Oklahoma City Bombing RARE footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk)

[TinCanToNA]

Oh, I do believe that, but can you point to anywhere in this thread that I said that?

the main article was dealing with the SPLC, The OKC bombing is only a part of that.
But there is much on that issue as well.

YouTube - Oklahoma City Bombing RARE footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk)

You're quoting parts of the article directly implying it with no amplifying words of your own. If you want to play semantics, then I can't point to anywhere in this thread where you've "said" anything because, to my knowledge, you have not embedded audio of your own voice. Use the words "implied," "said," "meant," "believe," and the phrase "are trying to convince others," as appropriate.

As I said, if you have evidence, I am willing to examine it.

[pcosmar]

As I said, if you have evidence, I am willing to examine it.

I doubt that, as you are not even able to read,

The piece I posted dealt with the SPLC and their attacks on patriots.
As far as the OKC bombing, well there is much available. Aside from the video I posted there are others, discrepancies documented.
You have to come to your own conclusions.

YouTube - 4409 -- Timothy McVeigh Tapes: MSNBC Documentary Confessions of an American Terrorist. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CloZVvjEdK4)

[TinCanToNA]

Ad hominem attack: check.
Standard conspiracy theory video: check.
Vague and non-existant links to more modern events: check.
More speculation: check.

Still not seeing much in the way of evidence. Discrepency and speculation in news reports of all things are not evidence of conspiracy for a false-flag attack.

[pcosmar]

Ad hominem attack: check.
Standard conspiracy theory video: check.
Vague and non-existant links to more modern events: check.
More speculation: check.

Still not seeing much in the way of evidence. Discrepency and speculation in news reports of all things are not evidence of conspiracy for a false-flag attack.

Kiss my ass - Check

You were the one that commented about your inability to read.
I am guessing that comprehension is not your strong suit either.

I've been skimming through the second link you posted,

[TinCanToNA]

Kiss my ass - Check

You were the one that commented about your inability to read.
I am guessing that comprehension is not your strong suit either.That's not inability, but since you're so good with semantics, you should know that already. As I said, I don't wish to invest much time in yet another conspiracy theory which, just like virtually every aspect of the 9/11 false flag conspiracy theory, will probably be dispelled with little difficulty.

I asked for your strongest evidence, you gave it your best shot, and I'm still highly skeptical. If you want to post more misleading stuff and then say it's up to me to figure it out, I will be left with the conclusion that the conspiracy theory is bogus and that you are intellectually dishonest.

[pcosmar]

That's not inability, but since you're so good with semantics, you should know that already. As I said, I don't wish to invest much time in yet another conspiracy theory which, just like virtually every aspect of the 9/11 false flag conspiracy theory, will probably be dispelled with little difficulty.

I asked for your strongest evidence, you gave it your best shot, and I'm still highly skeptical. If you want to post more misleading stuff and then say it's up to me to figure it out, I will be left with the conclusion that the conspiracy theory is bogus and that you are intellectually dishonest.

And your ignorance is supposed to mean what to me?

[Mach]

Here's one from Sept. 2001, in Vanity Fair of all places....

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2001/09/mcveigh200109?printable=true
.
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[libertygrl]

OKC Bombing Survivor Jane Graham Reveals Gov. Prior Knowledge:


YouTube - OKC Bombing Survivor Jane Graham Reveals Gov. Prior Knowledge on Alex Jones Tv 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGdtgotcZdw&feature=player_embedded)