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View Full Version : Politico Top Story: Tea partiers in two camps: Ron Paul vs. Sarah Palin




bobbyw24
04-19-2010, 05:15 AM
Tea party activists are divided roughly into two camps, according to a new POLITICO/TargetPoint poll: one that’s libertarian-minded and largely indifferent to hot-button values issues and another that’s culturally conservative and equally concerned about social and fiscal issues.

http://images.politico.com/global/news/100419_sarah_palin_ron_paul_ap_605.jpg


The survey, an exit poll conducted Thursday by Edison Research at the massive Tax Day protest on the National Mall, found that the attendees were largely hostile to President Barack Obama and the national Democratic Party — three-quarters believe the president “is pursuing a socialist agenda.”


Yet they aren’t enamored of the Republican Party as an alternative. Overall, three out of four tea party attendees said they were “scared about the direction” of the country and “want to send a message to both political parties.”


The results, however, suggest a distinct fault line that runs through the tea party activist base, characterized by two wings led by the politicians who ranked highest when respondents were asked who “best exemplifies the goals of the tea party movement” — former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), a former GOP presidential candidate.


Palin, who topped the list with 15 percent, speaks for the 43 percent of those polled expressing the distinctly conservative view that government does too much, while also saying that it needs to promote traditional values.


Paul’s thinking is reflected by an almost identical 42 percent who said government does too much but should not try to promote any particular set of values — the hallmarks of libertarians. He came in second to Palin with 12 percent.


When asked to choose from a list of candidates for president in 2012, Palin and Paul also finished one-two — with Palin at 15 percent and Paul at 14 percent.


In general, those who turned out for the April 15 event tended to be less culturally conservative than national Republicans.


Asked to rate their level of anger about 22 issues on a scale of one (not angry at all) to five (extremely angry), the issue that drew the most anger: the growing national debt. The least: courts granting same-sex couples the right to marry. Twenty-four percent said they’re “not at all” upset about gay marriage.

Paul performed best among those who don’t think government should promote any particular set of values, but Palin dominated among the family values set. Of Palin voters, 59 percent said they were either very or extremely angry about same-sex marriage. Among Paul voters, the number was 34 percent. Half of Palin’s tea party supporters attend weekly religious services; a quarter of Paul voters do.

Among the respondents, the two prominent figureheads polarize. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed said they would not even consider voting for Palin if she ran for president in 2012; 59 percent said the same thing of Paul.

Read on

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/35988.html

Working Poor
04-19-2010, 05:27 AM
I don't like this article all the media seems to do is try and make the tea party look stupid and Ron Paul supporters look like crazies I am tired of it.
I liked this comment though:


What socialist Democrats know and fear is for every TEA Party person demonstrating there are thousands at home or work who couldn’t make it.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/35988_Page3.html#commentsform#ixzz0lXteovZr

WorldonaString
04-19-2010, 05:30 AM
Whats the Ron Paul video with that nice song about "the fault line...runs right through here...that may be, whats gonna happen is gonna happen to me..."

Time to dust that off with an update??

..PAUL4PRES..
04-19-2010, 05:35 AM
I really hate that woman.

Cowlesy
04-19-2010, 05:36 AM
divide and conquer...

Bern
04-19-2010, 05:44 AM
It's pretty apparent to me that the Palin support is the Dick Army co-opted group. Nice to see some numbers showing that folks adhering to the original spirit of the tea party movement are just about equal in size.

rprprs
04-19-2010, 06:27 AM
divide and conquer...

Well, yes, that's probably the intent. But overall, I find the article encouraging, especially in light of the fact that many of Paul's supporters kind of threw up their hands and walked away from the tea party movement.. a strategy I think unwise. I think we can still reclaim this movement if we hang in there and come out in force.
Let's not turn this movement over to the Palin/Armey/Hannity forces without a fight. I like cream with my tea, and we are the cream of the crop. Let's rise to the top.. as cream is apt to do.

TheState
04-19-2010, 06:33 AM
I think this is a great article and gives us a lot of insight. Just another reason why we need our people out at these tea parties.

specsaregood
04-19-2010, 06:38 AM
Palin, who topped the list with 15 percent, speaks for the 43 percent of those polled expressing the distinctly conservative view that government does too much, while also saying that it needs to promote traditional values.


With no hint of the hypocritical irony here.
These people need it drilled into their heads: "whatever power you give the federal government to do can be used against you when the party in power changes"

These people are potential allies.

FreedomProsperityPeace
04-19-2010, 06:38 AM
Time for a debate.

Not a nicey-nice Joe Biden style debate, either. She needs to be revealed as an ignoramus and obliterated. :mad:

ProBlue33
04-19-2010, 07:17 AM
Time for a debate.

Not a nicey-nice Joe Biden style debate, either. She needs to be revealed as an ignoramus and obliterated. :mad:

I agree but after Rand is elected, after all she supports Rand, use her and dump her, lol.

Mattsa
04-19-2010, 07:18 AM
divide and conquer...

As soon as anything is perceived as a threat, it must be infltrated and destroyed.

This is very typical of Fabian socialism.

Ron Paul's original Tea Party movement was percived as a threat and it had to be destroyed. Their method is parasitic. They invade the host and eat it from the inside out. Sarah Palin is the parasite chosen to do their dirty work.

sofia
04-19-2010, 07:29 AM
Social conservatives need to open their eyes and realize that Ron Paul is a religious man and a social conservative.

He just doesnt wear his moral/religious values on his sleeve ......like St. Sarah the Adulteress , Money Grubber, Arab Baby Killer does.

HOLLYWOOD
04-19-2010, 08:39 AM
It's the POLITICO... basically the Internet version of the Liberal MSM Washington Post.

Always consider the source and motives. Obama is done if the LEFT media can't fracture and divide all groups united against the current state.

tremendoustie
04-19-2010, 09:33 AM
If half of the tea partiers really are principled supporters of liberty, we're in fantastic shape.

erowe1
04-19-2010, 09:42 AM
I don't like how the story characterized the chief difference as being over whether or not the government should promote values. Sarah Palin is pro-bailout and pro-imperialism. Ron Paul is just as socially conservative as she is.

AuH20
04-19-2010, 09:43 AM
But Sarah Palin endorsed Ron Paul's son. This article is hilarious.

ctiger2
04-19-2010, 09:49 AM
This guy takes a beating when he starts bashing Palin at a recenty tea party.

YouTube - Tea Party Movement = Sarah Palin Movement? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nFeOsMGfi0)

AuH20
04-19-2010, 09:50 AM
This guy takes a beating when he starts bashing Palin at a recenty tea party.

YouTube - Tea Party Movement = Sarah Palin Movement? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nFeOsMGfi0)

Why pick out Palin when she's not even a political figure any longer? These people are idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

speciallyblend
04-19-2010, 09:57 AM
tells me the tea party has not been hi-jacked by the palin/big gov gop establishment!! this should scare the crap out of the failed gop establishment. All that time and money spent trying to hi-jack and co-op our message and to me this says they failed!!!

nobody i know as indys or dems and even republicans want anything to do with palin! keywords that turn voters off from all parties fox,palin,beck,newt,rush,bush,mccain and fill in the rest of the neo-cons!!! like i have been saying if the gop establishment doesn't wise up soon .they will alienate themselves!!! something is happening and Liberty IS IT!!! Liberty Has No Party!!!

speciallyblend
04-19-2010, 09:58 AM
Why pick out Palin when she's not even a political figure any longer? These people are idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

palin is something no one should be mentioning. she is a quitter and nothing more then a paris hilton doll of tv!!

Spider-Man
04-19-2010, 10:00 AM
This article is excellent press, despite its contents being deficient in many areas.

AuH20
04-19-2010, 10:01 AM
palin is something no one should be mentioning. she is a quitter and nothing more then a paris hilton doll of tv!!

Exactly! Why is everyone so obsessed with Palin? Her political career is over. She's just a fundraising magnet and more of a celebrity type.

Fozz
04-19-2010, 10:06 AM
palin is something no one should be mentioning. she is a quitter and nothing more then a paris hilton doll of tv!!

She endorsed Rand Paul

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/palin-in-runners-world.jpg

chudrockz
04-19-2010, 10:27 AM
I wouldn't kick her out of bed... unless she tried to say something intelligent.

speciallyblend
04-19-2010, 10:55 AM
She endorsed Rand Paul

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/palin-in-runners-world.jpg

she is just trying to endorse a Winner;) she turned around and endorsed mccain to????? glad she endorsed Rand! she can get a cookie now!

Matt Collins
04-19-2010, 11:01 AM
palin is something no one should be mentioning. she is a quitter and nothing more then a paris hilton doll of tv!!
YouTube - Sarah Palin on Ron Paul and Republican partisanship (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YglP4clX0A)
YouTube - SA@TAC - What is Sarah Palin? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RgW5tgDIxY)

silentshout
04-19-2010, 11:09 AM
The fact that people who purportedly support liberty would think Sarah Palin should be their spokesperson is scary. I wish they'd just admit that they were neocons and were fine with government forcing people to live by their version of "morality."

silentshout
04-19-2010, 11:12 AM
I don't like how the story characterized the chief difference as being over whether or not the government should promote values. Sarah Palin is pro-bailout and pro-imperialism. Ron Paul is just as socially conservative as she is.

Yes, but for himself, as long as the actions don't harm others. He doesn't support forcing others to live by the religious or social mores that he chooses to do. That's the huge difference. I don't give two hoots about what religion or non-religion a candidate practices. I don't want anyone who will force it down people's throats.

I'm also tired of people saying this is a "Christian country," as many of our founders, while they believed in God, were deists and outspoken critics of organized Christianity. And even so, just because most of our founders believed in God, doesn't mean everyone else did back then, or that everyone else does now. Honestly, why do they care so much what other people believe?

Aratus
04-19-2010, 11:14 AM
...and if rand paul and john mccain win in november, we will credit the "sarah palin effect" for the victory!

Srg1
04-19-2010, 11:31 AM
How did i know it would be 1% difference or 1 vote short.

wgadget
04-19-2010, 12:05 PM
Politico---BAH.

I prefer this LEW ROCKWELL story:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl2/misreading-the-tea-party.html


EXCERPT:

Misreading the Tea Leaves: Media Can't Figure Out the Tea Party

by Paul Mulshine




Watching my fellow members of the media try to dissect the tea party movement is endlessly amusing. They tend to seize on the first thing they encounter and then employ it to describe the rest. The effect is that of a man approaching a smorgasbord, picking out the boiled potatoes, and then deciding Swedes must be vegetarians.

As a connoisseur of conservatism, I like to sample from all the plates. So when the tea partiers congregated on the steps of the Statehouse Thursday, I gravitated to the John Birch Society table.

Like the tea partiers, the Birch Society is something of a blank screen upon which people project their emotions. The actual subject matter of the society’s publications would put most Americans to sleep. Do you care how your congressman voted on H.R. 3183, the Energy-Water Appropriations bill? If so, you can find out by picking up the Freedom Index pamphlet the Birchers put out. I did and I found that the only House member with a 100 percent rating from the society is Ron Paul, the once and perhaps future presidential contender from Texas.

This is exactly the sort of thing that drives my fellow members of the mainstream media crazy. They want to put the John Birchers in one box, presumably a box filled with mobs of angry people holding pitchforks. But mention Ron Paul and they construct another box, one you might find in Amsterdam. It’s filled with advocates of legalized drugs and open prostitution.

Yet Paul, who first employed the tea party theme in his 2008 campaign, and the Birchers agree on most of the issues that matter these days. So who’s on the other side?

Most of those self-proclaimed “right-wing” radio talk show hosts, that’s who. I found that out when I got to chatting with the guy behind the table, 56-year-old Kip Webster of Ringwood.

The subject of our conversation was radio talker Mark Levin, who recently decided to turn down an invitation to speak at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington because the Birchers were a co-sponsor.

“He’s at best a useful idiot,” said Webster of Levin. I hadn’t heard that term since the Cold War. Webster went into a long dissertation on how the adherents of so-called “neo” conservatism – a group that includes just about all the radio talkers – are the ideological inheritors of the Trotskyite tradition.

The details of that debate are too involved to recount here. I’m just bringing it up to point out that there’s a fault line in American politics invisible to the mainstream media. Though the tea party people are literally all over the map, on the whole they represent a return to traditional American values that weren’t in evidence in the big-spending, big-government George W. Bush era.

In those bad old days, Republicans took the view that it’s the responsibility of the American taxpayer to accomplish Bush’s stated goal of ending tyranny on Earth. The tea partiers tend to lean more toward the Texas congressman’s view that both our Constitution and our finances preclude that sort of thing.

All of this greatly bothers the Republican establishment. Hence the attempt to cast Alaskan airhead Sarah Palin as some sort of leader of the movement

parocks
04-19-2010, 12:17 PM
One interesting thing is that there are 2 people identified with the tea parties - Paul and Palin. For the Republican nomination - people talk about Paul, Palin, but also, Romney, Gingrich, Huckabee and others. But they only are talking about Paul and Palin in terms of the tea party Republicans / Conservatives.

Ron Paul is likely closer to Sarah Palin on the issues than he is to Mitt Gingabee. Ron Paul can get the votes of Sarah Palin supporters and should target Sarah Palin supporters.


I think this is a great article and gives us a lot of insight. Just another reason why we need our people out at these tea parties.

parocks
04-19-2010, 12:30 PM
This article is excellent press, despite its contents being deficient in many areas.

Sure is. It's the story we want told. Certainly better than something like "everyone at the Tea Parties likes Sarah Palin" or "most people at the Tea Parties like Sarah Palin, some like Romney, some like Huckabee, some like Gingrich, some like Ron Paul".

Brian4Liberty
04-19-2010, 12:33 PM
divide and conquer...

My first thought. The Left loves to see infighting amount people who agree on the majority of issues. They want to inflame that, otherwise, the more they interact, they will probably find even more common ground. Can't have that. :rolleyes:

In another sense, it's about human nature. Divide everything into two supposed opposites. Black and white. No shades of gray. Many people have a lot of trouble with individualism.

catdd
04-19-2010, 12:37 PM
Her endorsing Rand was a smart political move and it probably did more for her than him. Truth be known, I bet she didn't even think of it herself, her handlers probably did.

How anyone can figure that she is a liberty candidate is beyond me.

Lord Xar
04-19-2010, 12:37 PM
divide and conquer...

Yup. We need to plaster all comments with that saying. Then it will become fairly obvious what the agenda is.

Matt Collins
04-19-2010, 12:55 PM
How did i know it would be 1% difference or 1 vote short.Naaw.... we've never seen that happen before? :rolleyes: :(

Matt Collins
04-19-2010, 12:56 PM
Her endorsing Rand was a smart political move and it probably did more for her than him. Truth be known, I bet she didn't even think of it herself, her handlers probably did.Actually a supporter in KY sent a registered letter to her home in AK and she opened it herself, saw the letter, and decided to endorse Rand. Rand discusses this in the CJ interview.


.

catdd
04-19-2010, 01:01 PM
Actually a supporter in KY sent a registered letter to her home in AK and she opened it herself, saw the letter, and decided to endorse Rand. Rand discusses this in the CJ interview.


.

I knew she couldn't think of it herself. Damned surprised she figured out how to open the letter.

Matt Collins
04-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Jack Hunter the Southern Avenger comments on this here:
http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/SouthernAvenger/archives/2010/04/19/tea-partiers-in-two-camps-sarah-palin-vs-ron-paul



.

anaconda
04-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Finally, a little mainstream clarification..

SooperDave
04-19-2010, 02:55 PM
as long as their is a voting bloc of the uneducated, the uninformed, the illiterates, the welfare recipients, the social security dependents, and many more cut from the same cloth, there is no hope that voting will get us back on the track of individual liberty. sad but true.

devil21
04-19-2010, 03:07 PM
The sad thing, and I didn't see anyone else mention it, is that the majority of these Tea Party people haven't learned a damn thing apparently. I have a feeling this media outlet is left leaning so who knows how accurate it really is though.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/majority-of-tea-partiers-would-not-vote-for-sarah-palin/
(or Ron Paul)



Because what we are lacking these days is extensive information about who the Tea Partiers are and what they want, Politico has followed up last week’s huge NYT/CBS poll with one of their own. Politico apparently decided to take advantage of the huge tax day protests that descended on Washington last Thursday to ask some pertinent questions.

As with the NYT poll none of the results are all that surprising: “the attendees were largely hostile to President Barack Obama and the national Democratic Party — three-quarters believe the president “is pursuing a socialist agenda.” I think that last bit may eventually be known at the Glenn Beck Effect.

The poll also noted that the group was split within itself into two separate groups, those that are libertarian-minded, and those that are “culturally conservative and equally concerned about social and fiscal issues.” Subsequently, it’s not at all surprising that the party at large admires two distinct figures as best representing what the movement stands for: Ron Paul and Sarah Palin. What is interesting is that despite this support the majority of Tea Partiers would not consider voting for either: “Fifty-three percent of those surveyed said they would not even consider voting for Palin if she ran for president in 2012; 59 percent said the same thing of Paul.”

And there you have the major problem the Republicans are facing distilled down to one poll result: the GOP is utterly lacking in reliable leadership. The Tea Party is currently a hugely energized monster with no head. Literally. The right needs to find a leader that can compete with the zeal and magnetism of Sarah Palin (in the words of Gail Collins, someone who “can suck all the air out of the room”), but who people actually feel comfortable voting for. And they need to do it quickly. Full poll results here.

So according to this poll, over half of polled Tea Party people say they still wouldn't vote for Ron Paul, which pretty much leaves them choosing, once again, the lesser of two evils from a hand picked crop of GOP establishment types like Gingrich and Romney.

Pathetic.

silus
04-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Why pick out Palin when she's not even a political figure any longer? These people are idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This guy takes a beating when he starts bashing Palin at a recenty tea party.

YouTube - Tea Party Movement = Sarah Palin Movement? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nFeOsMGfi0)
When the crowd turns on you thats when you focus even harder on the issues. Thats what I learned from Ron Paul. This guy allowed himself to be sidetracked by a petty exchange, and now his entire message is going to be dismissed.

And IMO, I think he's going overboard on even bringing up the issue of guns and killing.

parocks
04-19-2010, 05:03 PM
I think what this article is saying is that Ron Paul would get between 14-41 % of tea partiers and Palin would get between 15-47%.

Neither Ron Paul nor Sarah Palin would need 50% in the early primary states to wrap up the nomination. And certainly there will be many Republicans running.
Some would be popular with Tea Partiers, like Paul and Palin, and others would be unpopular with Tea Partiers, like Romney, Gingrich and Huckabee.

I don't understand why it's so imperative that the tea party choose one leader.


The sad thing, and I didn't see anyone else mention it, is that the majority of these Tea Party people haven't learned a damn thing apparently. I have a feeling this media outlet is left leaning so who knows how accurate it really is though.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/majority-of-tea-partiers-would-not-vote-for-sarah-palin/
(or Ron Paul)



So according to this poll, over half of polled Tea Party people say they still wouldn't vote for Ron Paul, which pretty much leaves them choosing, once again, the lesser of two evils from a hand picked crop of GOP establishment types like Gingrich and Romney.

Pathetic.

specsaregood
04-19-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't understand why it's so imperative that the tea party choose one leader.

Because that makes it easier for the media to attack and destroy. hope that clears things up for you. :)

parocks
04-19-2010, 05:13 PM
Because that makes it easier for the media to attack and destroy. hope that clears things up for you. :)

Right, or to do any number of things to, but you're saying that the media wants a clear target or the democrats want a clear target. It seems better for the tea party not to have a leader.

catdd
04-19-2010, 05:16 PM
Keep em guessing.

speciallyblend
04-20-2010, 06:23 AM
It's pretty apparent to me that the Palin support is the Dick Army co-opted group. Nice to see some numbers showing that folks adhering to the original spirit of the tea party movement are just about equal in size.

yep, the problem from day one has been the right-winger palin,dick army,cheney neo-con folks. they do not want smaller government. they want to be the big gop government! not all palin folks are right-wingers but a good majority of them want bigger government!!

it is nice to see folks are wising up!!!! NOBIGGOVGOPINMYTEA!!!!

specsaregood
04-20-2010, 06:29 AM
Right, or to do any number of things to, but you're saying that the media wants a clear target or the democrats want a clear target. It seems better for the tea party not to have a leader.

The best thing I see is for Paul to reach out to Palin. say, "You know the liberal media is trying to pit our supporters against each other. We need to make sure that doesn't happen. How about you ask your supporters to actively support and campaign for HR4995? A bill that all the tea partiers should be able to support."

osan
04-20-2010, 09:10 AM
Tea party activists are divided roughly into two camps, according to a new POLITICO/TargetPoint poll: one that’s libertarian-minded and largely indifferent to hot-button values issues and another that’s culturally conservative and equally concerned about social and fiscal issues.


And this is how the democrats and republicans stand to gain four more years of the same old shit by dividing and thereby conquering the Tea Partiers. Way to go.

Palin is a joke and anyone voting for her is an imbecile. Paul is the best hope this nation has of not going completely into the abyss.

Matt Collins
04-20-2010, 09:33 AM
Cato's David Boaz blogs about this:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/19/libertarians-independents-and-tea-parties/



.

HOLLYWOOD
04-20-2010, 09:40 AM
yep, the problem from day one has been the right-winger palin,dick army,cheney neo-con folks. they do not want smaller government. they want to be the big gop government! not all palin folks are right-wingers but a good majority of them want bigger government!!

it is nice to see folks are wising up!!!! NOBIGGOVGOPINMYTEA!!!!


This is a proven fact after the GOP were handed their asses on Nov 2008 by the Democrats. What did the GOP do... held a Inner Circle Secret meeting between the "Republican Power Players" the next week in Virginia.

The meeting didn't become so-secret after CNN's anchor, John Roberts, revealed the Secret GOP meeting to Ron Paul LIVE On The Air. Ron was surprised a bit and then chuckled it off like the little rascals in their own world.

It's always about power and control... and if the Republicans win in November, look for the exact same conduct as the Democrats have been doing for the past 2+ years. The False Dichotomy continues...

Palin will endorse anyone for popularity or money... she's an opportunist. I did enjoy Palin's" 'ROAST' of Juan McCain... instead of a RALLY.