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Reason
04-17-2010, 12:43 AM
WikiLeaks and their defenders have been under fire for “not supporting the troops,” by releasing the video now titled “Collateral Murder.” (http://collateralmurder.com/)

The [/url] shows American snipers killing Iraqis on the ground, including children and journalists. The Pentagon and others have charged the the video is “out of context.”

How about this for context:

Two soldiers from Bravo Company 2-16, the company depicted in the video, have written an open letter of apology to the Iraqis who were injured or lost loved ones during the attack (they say that this sort of thing is a regular occurrence in this war).

Here is the text of the letter:

AN OPEN LETTER OF RECONCILIATION & RESPONSIBILITY TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE

From Current and Former Members of the U.S. Military

Peace be with you.

To all of those who were injured or lost loved ones during the July 2007 Baghdad shootings depicted in the “Collateral Murder” Wikileaks video:

We write to you, your family, and your community with awareness that our words and actions can never restore your losses.

We are both soldiers who occupied your neighborhood for 14 months. Ethan McCord pulled your daughter and son from the van, and when doing so, saw the faces of his own children back home. Josh Stieber was in the same company but was not there that day, though he contributed to the your pain, and the pain of your community on many other occasions.

There is no bringing back all that was lost. What we seek is to learn from our mistakes and do everything we can to tell others of our experiences and how the people of the United States need to realize what have done and are doing to you and the people of your country. We humbly ask you what we can do to begin to repair the damage we caused.

We have been speaking to whoever will listen, telling them that what was shown in the Wikileaks video only begins to depict the suffering we have created. From our own experiences, and the experiences of other veterans we have talked to, we know that the acts depicted in this video are everyday occurrences of this war: this is the nature of how U.S.-led wars are carried out in this region.

We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and carried out in the name of “god and country”. The soldier in video said that your husband shouldn’t have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

More and more Americans are taking responsibility for what was done in our name. Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny.

Our government may ignore you, concerned more with its public image. It has also ignored many veterans who have returned physically injured or mentally troubled by what they saw and did in your country. But the time is long overdue that we say that the value of our nation’s leaders no longer represent us. Our secretary of defense may say the U.S. won’t lose its reputation over this, but we stand and say that our reputation’s importance pales in comparison to our common humanity.

With such pain, friendship might be too much to ask. Please accept our apology, our sorrow, our care, and our dedication to change from the inside out. We are doing what we can to speak out against the wars and military policies responsible for what happened to you and your loved ones. Our hearts are open to hearing how we can take any steps to support you through the pain that we have caused.

Solemnly and Sincerely,
Josh Stieber, former specialist, U.S. Army
Ethan McCord, former specialist, U.S. Army

The soldiers are asking Americans to co-sign the letter [U]on this website. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0)


‘Collateral Murder’ Veterans Apologize to Iraqi Families « Antiwar.com Blog (http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2010/04/16/collateral-murder-veterans-apologize-to-iraqi-families/)

Letter to Iraq (http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5966/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=2724)

~~~~Press Release~~~~


VETERANS OF "WIKILEAKS" INCIDENT ANNOUNCE "LETTER OF RECONCILIATION" TO IRAQIS INJURED IN ATTACK

 (http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5966/t/9615/p/salsa/web/common/public/content?content_item_KEY=2491)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 15th, 2010

Contact:
Laura Taylor: 202-510-3711
info@civsol.org

VETERANS OF "WIKILEAKS" INCIDENT ANNOUNCE
"LETTER OF RECONCILIATION" TO IRAQIS INJURED IN ATTACK



Two former soldiers from the Army unit responsible for the Wikileaks "Collateral Murder" incident have written an open-letter of "Reconciliation and Responsibility" to those injured in the July 2007 attack, in which U.S. forces wounded two children and killed over a dozen people, including the father of those children and two Reuters employees.

Ethan Mccord and Josh Stieber deployed to Baghdad with Bravo Company 2-16 in 2007. Ethan was on the ground at the scene of the shooting, and is seen on the video rushing one of the injured children to a U.S. Vehicle; "When I saw those kids, all I could picture was my kids back home". Ethan applied for mental health support following this incident and was denied by his commanding officer.

Josh Stieber was not at the scene of the shooting but says similar incidents happened throughout his 14-month tour; "The acts depicted in this video are everyday occurrences of this war."
 Josh states that these casualties demonstrate the impact of U.S. military policy on both the civilians and the soldiers on the ground.

Ethan and Josh claim that though their unit was following the Rules of Engagement that day, they are taking responsibility for their role in the incident and initiating a dialogue around it; "Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny."

The letter, which they hope to get to the family who lost their father and whose children were injured in the attack, states that they "are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us."

Ethan and Josh are available for interviews. The letter can be seen at: Letter to Iraq (http://www.lettertoiraq.com)


BACKGROUND ON JOSH STIEBER:
Branch of service: United States Army (USA)

Unit: 1st ID

Rank: Spc.

Home: Laytonsville, Maryland
Served in: Baghdad (Rustamiyah) 07-08 Fort Riley, KS 06-07, 08-09

BACKGROUND ON ETHAN MCCORD:
Branch of service: United States Army (USA)

Unit: 1st ID

Rank: Spc.

Home: Wichita, Kansas

axiomata
04-17-2010, 12:52 AM
Courage is not taking out a van full of kids trying to rescue an injured photographer; apologizing like this is real courage.

WorldonaString
04-17-2010, 02:02 AM
I hope this gets more coverage.

CGeoffrion
04-17-2010, 02:12 AM
Powerful. Very powerful.

tremendoustie
04-17-2010, 02:59 AM
Attention neocon blabbermouths to whom "freedom", "honor", "liberty" etc, are nothing but chunks of empty rhetoric in your standard warmongering line:

THIS is what actual courage looks like.

tremendoustie
04-17-2010, 03:05 AM
Courage is not taking out a van full of kids trying to rescue an injured photographer; apologizing like this is real courage.

Exactly. Watch the video, and read this, and if it's not clear who's cowardly and who's brave, whose actions are dishonorable, and whose are honorable, there's something wrong with your head.

Promontorium
04-17-2010, 03:36 AM
I appreciate their efforts. As I have said, this video does not depict a single tragic event, it reveals the nature of the wars. The entire thing is screwed. It wasn't a moment of error or weakness. That video shows policy in effect.

Sadly as you see though, you have a couple Specialists taking responsibility. Just about the very bottom of the totem pole. Probably single term soldiers.

This is what I noticed in the military.

You have a nation that raises its children on lies. Barely out of high school, never a day without government "education" these children of lies believe America just in its actions. You can't tell them otherwise, with your extremist views. And I do believe many of you are extremists, beyond logic. A nation cannot be a nation without a military. It is impossible. And you who doubt me, declare your own independence and we'll see who's door is kicked in, and who's roof is shot out by rockets.

Just or unjust a nation cannot exist without a military. But raised to believe this nation just, people of all characters join to serve. There is no education to stop this from happening. Because all they hear in opposition to this war, this faulty culture is "America is evil, military is evil, you are evil." it is far too absolute to be taken seriously.

Then they see for themselves, as they enter the belly of the beast. No hollow arguments across the web will tap on what every good man and woman discovers while serving for this nation. And so, as I have seen. Most good men and women serve one term. They realize rather quickly this is a beast too large to stop, and inside, should they make a wrong move, they would be consumed. So they just "manage" and wait for their day of discharge.

Those who stay, a precious few believe they can "fix" the systems in place. But the overwhelming majority who stay, accept this system. And so your high ranking enlisted and officers know exactly what they are signing up for. This process of filtering out the good, and leaving only the apathetic, the sadistic, and the hopeless creates a progressively worse environment. Those who come in and wish to change things, are stared down by generations of corruption. The entire system has been institutionalized to destroy any attempts to fix things.

The ignorant and confused masses are the backbone of this system. For if most believed before hand that they should not join under moral conditions, then the system would fall in on itself. However, this is unlikely. Rational, unbiased education is needed.

I do not see a solution though. I am far too cynical. Ron Paul's popularity, his very effort, was like a gleam of light after years of darkness. Then poof. Gone.

I would do nothing to deter your efforts to keep the fire burning, but I see no exit.

tremendoustie
04-17-2010, 03:43 AM
Well said, Promontorium. I have heard similar things from police trainers -- that the very worst rise through the ranks. You are wrong on this, however: the gleam is not gone - it is growing continuously.

Here's what I wrote to their info person:

Dear Laura,

To many, it seems the words "Freedom", "Liberty", "Courage", and "Honor" are meaningless, except as empty shells to push an agenda, or as some sort of Orwellian cover, to excuse tyranny, dishonor, or evil. I'd like to wipe the warmongering grime off those words, and use them properly for once.

This letter is truly courageous, and truly honorable, and it is inspiring. I have been, and continue to be concerned about the direction of the country. We need far more men like Josh and Ethan, in many different ways. To so honestly assess oneself, change where necessary, and take responsibility for past actions, is incredibly difficult, even in far tamer circumstances -- I aspire to this.

Ironically, speaking for myself as a civilian, I feel that by this letter they have done far more to prevent future violence in general, and specifically against me, than every weapon in the military combined.

If you don't mind passing my comments along to them, I'd appreciate it.

The highest regards,
Paul

NoHero
04-17-2010, 03:52 AM
Thank you so much for this post, Reason. I always enjoy your posts with all the extra links and context you give. Would you mind if put this on my facebook the way you posted here? I will put that I got it from a friend on RPF and give a link to the forums. I just realized I have never linked to the forums, but I have been covering the Wikileaks video a lot lately. I have a bunch of friends who are Paul supporters and more of other political persuasions who like only some things I post.

pcosmar
04-17-2010, 07:49 AM
It's nice.
And I have no doubt that there are a great number of good and honorable men in the armed forces.
Some leave the service for those reasons, some speak out, or even file charges, Others commit suicide, unable to deal with the inner conflicts.
This is a letter allegedly from those on the ground that witnessed the after affects. ( if this is real)

It is not from the murderers in the aircraft.
It is not from those in charge that create this tragedy.

It is not from those responsible.
:(

furface
04-17-2010, 07:54 AM
this video does not depict a single tragic event, it reveals the nature of the wars.

This is true, and the soldiers are victims themselves as well. We pump them up with crazy talk of freedom and heroics. They are being manipulated by evil people.

FunkBuddha
04-17-2010, 08:44 AM
I'm sitting at the mechanic shop and I just shed a few tears reading that letter. The truth is that it is our humanity which unites us all, not flags, churches, borders etc...

The letter gives me hope that one day people across the world will look at their supposed leaders and say "You know what, this is bullshit! Without those guns, you aren't shit! Kiss my ass and leave me alone."

klamath
04-17-2010, 09:01 AM
WikiLeaks and their defenders have been under fire for “not supporting the troops,” by releasing the video now titled “Collateral Murder.” (http://collateralmurder.com/)

The [/url]

[url=http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5966/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=2724]Letter to Iraq (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0)

~~~~Press Release~~~~


VETERANS OF "WIKILEAKS" INCIDENT ANNOUNCE "LETTER OF RECONCILIATION" TO IRAQIS INJURED IN ATTACK

 (http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5966/t/9615/p/salsa/web/common/public/content?content_item_KEY=2491)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 15th, 2010

Contact:
Laura Taylor: 202-510-3711
info@civsol.org

VETERANS OF "WIKILEAKS" INCIDENT ANNOUNCE
"LETTER OF RECONCILIATION" TO IRAQIS INJURED IN ATTACK



Two former soldiers from the Army unit responsible for the Wikileaks "Collateral Murder" incident have written an open-letter of "Reconciliation and Responsibility" to those injured in the July 2007 attack, in which U.S. forces wounded two children and killed over a dozen people, including the father of those children and two Reuters employees.

Ethan Mccord and Josh Stieber deployed to Baghdad with Bravo Company 2-16 in 2007. Ethan was on the ground at the scene of the shooting, and is seen on the video rushing one of the injured children to a U.S. Vehicle; "When I saw those kids, all I could picture was my kids back home". Ethan applied for mental health support following this incident and was denied by his commanding officer.

Josh Stieber was not at the scene of the shooting but says similar incidents happened throughout his 14-month tour; "The acts depicted in this video are everyday occurrences of this war."
 Josh states that these casualties demonstrate the impact of U.S. military policy on both the civilians and the soldiers on the ground.

Ethan and Josh claim that though their unit was following the Rules of Engagement that day, they are taking responsibility for their role in the incident and initiating a dialogue around it; "Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny."

The letter, which they hope to get to the family who lost their father and whose children were injured in the attack, states that they "are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us."

Ethan and Josh are available for interviews. The letter can be seen at: Letter to Iraq (http://www.lettertoiraq.com)


BACKGROUND ON JOSH STIEBER:
Branch of service: United States Army (USA)

Unit: 1st ID

Rank: Spc.

Home: Laytonsville, Maryland
Served in: Baghdad (Rustamiyah) 07-08 Fort Riley, KS 06-07, 08-09

BACKGROUND ON ETHAN MCCORD:
Branch of service: United States Army (USA)

Unit: 1st ID

Rank: Spc.

Home: Wichita, Kansas
Heart felt letter. This is the nature of all wars from Ghingis Khan, the American revolution to Iraq from all sides in any country. Mans inhumanity to his fellow man in ALL conflicts.

Reason
04-17-2010, 11:12 AM
So far pretty much no press is choosing to carry this story and the other forums where i've posted it have just been lots of posts calling it bullshit saying they don't believe it.

tpreitzel
04-17-2010, 01:49 PM
It's nice.
And I have no doubt that there are a great number of good and honorable men in the armed forces.
Some leave the service for those reasons, some speak out, or even file charges, Others commit suicide, unable to deal with the inner conflicts.
This is a letter allegedly from those on the ground that witnessed the after affects. ( if this is real)

It is not from the murderers in the aircraft.
It is not from those in charge that create this tragedy.

It is not from those responsible.
:(

Correct. The actions of some of the crew were borderline psychotic regardless of their conformance to the ROE. The public needs to see the medical histories of the crew. Ethan McCord's response was commendable and sane in the midst of tragedy. Personally, I think the active-duty component of the military needs to undergo a thorough psychological evaluation (besides the entrance tests) starting the with CINC and including former VPOTUS Dick Cheney and POTUS Bush with the results publicized for independent review.

InterestedParticipant
04-17-2010, 01:56 PM
Two U.S. Soldiers From Wikileaks ‘Collateral Murder’ Video Apologize In Open Letter
Wikileaks - Truth Purveyor or Government Propaganda Arm... deployed to build-up the credibility of alternative news sources so that people don't opt-out of the Simulacrum?

BenIsForRon
04-17-2010, 02:18 PM
Wikileaks - Truth Purveyor or Government Propaganda Arm... deployed to build-up the credibility of alternative news sources so that people don't opt-out of the Simulacrum?

Nice Fox News tactic there, IP. Put a "?" at the end of a sentence and it seems like you're presenting an objective fact.

UWDude
04-17-2010, 02:21 PM
I hope this gets more coverage.

I'll bet network and cable news doesn't even mention it.

Agorism
04-17-2010, 02:22 PM
These aren't the guys in the Apache though are they?

The video focuses mainly on one Apache.

Reason
04-17-2010, 10:35 PM
These aren't the guys in the Apache though are they?


I don't think so.

Promontorium
04-18-2010, 05:14 AM
These aren't the guys in the Apache though are they?

The video focuses mainly on one Apache.

They are listed as Specialists. That is a rank of paygrade E-4, it pays the same as Corporal, but is slightly less prominent in title.

Now-a-days all pilots have to be officers. No enlisted personnel could possibly be Apache pilots.

However, notoriously, Army Apache pilots need only be Warrant Officers, which in the Army do not need to be college educated nor enlisted for any long period, many Army Warrant Officer pilots are in their teens, if that gives you any perspective as to who is in the skies of Iraq and Afghanistan.

pcosmar
04-18-2010, 08:52 AM
These aren't the guys in the Apache though are they?
Did you read the letter? You should.

Ethan was on the ground at the scene of the shooting, and is seen on the video rushing one of the injured children to a U.S. Vehicle;
The other was not there that day, but has seen this before.

Josh Stieber was not at the scene of the shooting but says similar incidents happened throughout his 14-month tour
And as mentioned, their rank is a indicator.



The video focuses mainly on one Apache.
No the video has at least 2 Apache gunships, in a coordinated attack..

This letter does not address the actual perpetrators of this crime. Although this is not an isolated incident, and these men have likely seen more, elsewhere. The apology is generic.

:(
:mad:

tropicangela
04-20-2010, 07:33 PM
U.S. Soldier on 2007 Apache Attack: What I Saw
(Interview with McCord who wrote apology letter & ran carrying the girl)

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/


I don’t think that [the] big picture is whether or not [the Iraqis who were killed] had weapons. I think that the bigger picture is what are we doing there? We’ve been there for so long now and it seems like nothing is being accomplished whatsoever, except for we’re making more people hate us.

Read More http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/#ixzz0lh6P3SQy

silus
04-20-2010, 08:31 PM
If this was a worthwhile war, I would understand this incident. The problem is that our success is based largely on "winning the hearts and minds" of the people and eliminating the motivation and recruiting of suicide terrorism. The people who defend this are completely ignorant of what the military strategy is. I guarantee you General Petraeus sees this as a complete fucking failure.

This is kind of like Guantanamo. The people on Fox News think its a good idea on paper, but they have no idea how many terrorists were created from it.

Reason
05-19-2010, 10:19 PM
//

damania
06-19-2010, 02:28 AM
Here's my blog entry:
http://www.askbutwhy.com/2010/06/ethan-mccord-talks-about-wikileaks.html (http://www.askbutwhy.com/2010/06/ethan-mccord-talks-about-wikileaks.html)

heavenlyboy34
07-06-2010, 04:08 PM
Wikileaks - Truth Purveyor or Government Propaganda Arm... deployed to build-up the credibility of alternative news sources so that people don't opt-out of the Simulacrum?

If you can find a verifiable connection between the Government and WikiLeaks, I'd like to see it.

Romulus
07-06-2010, 04:13 PM
bump

qh4dotcom
12-01-2011, 03:41 PM
Sorry guys but I don't believe all this nonsense nor the sincerity of the soldiers.

If you want me to believe them then they should have no problem supporting Ron Paul or any other anti-war candidate...if they are not willing to do that then the least they can do is promise that they will never support another war pig corrupt politician again...no more votes nor campaign contributions to warmongers. I hear a lot of talk about how much money the military sends Ron Paul for the primaries but no one talks about how much money they send to the war pigs during a general election. Which is likely to be substantially more than what they send to Ron Paul.

In 2008, 98% of the military who went to the polls screwed up and voted for the war pigs McCain and Obama...I am expecting another 98% to screw up again in 2012 and support Obama or the Republican war pig nominee if Ron Paul is not nominated.