Is America "repairable"? & THE PLAN

[tangent4ronpaul]

Could the economy be saved? This quote came up in one thread:


This is all academic, really. It assumes America is repairable, which it isn't. It's just a matter of time now...

Another thread was about Beck's "THE PLAN", specifically cutting the defense budget where he had a couple of guys on from CATO that were also working on where to cut the budget. I didn't catch the rest of the week, but there was a screen shot indicating a 80 Billion cut in the Dept of Education and IIRC the defense cuts were in the 640 Billion range. Beck never did a summary of all his cuts, but it looks like about a Trillion in spending cuts every year.

In 2007 the federal government brought in 2.7 Trillion in tax revenue and we are currently 7 Trillion in debt (oops - 12.8). That seems like something we could dig ourselves out of in less than a decade.

Mandatory spending (2010) is $2.184 Trillion, leaving a hair over 500 Billion for everything else. Mandatory spending could be reduced by tossing out the HC bill and doing something that actually addressed costs - primarily getting rid of regulations. $750 Billion of it is medicare and medicaid. There is also $571 Billion in "other mandatory programs" - what they are is unknown...

Doing nothing with mandatory spending, we have 500 Billion left, but 1.368 Trillion in Discretionary spending - so that's almost 900 Billion over budget. This is all without paying off any of the debt.

Federal income could be increased by shuttering regulatory agencies and getting rid of regulations, resulting in an economic boom. The equivalent to "tightening your belt" and getting a second job.

So anyway, consider this a thought exercise and pretend it's your family budget and debt (just knock off a bunch of zero's)... How would YOU balance your budget and pay off the debt? At 500 Billion paid off a year, we could be in the black again in 14 years. oops - make that 25 years...

Some numbers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

-t

[revolutionisnow]

someone was passing out this flyer yesterday, seems like a reasonable plan, thoughts?



Instead of either side going after each other with 'ad hominem' attacks, which is a waste of our time, let's have a true discussion of how to fix the problems with the Republic you may not agree with my answers so let's hear some of yours here is my ideas:

For "We the People" need to start with our "petition of Government for redress of grievances" We need to find our constitutional lawyer he will next ask for our petitions and our list of demands. We need to advise the Lawyer to put up or down votes on the November ballots which we want to petition for.
Here's what we propose

1) Repeal this Health Care bill, and deal with the lobbyists
2) Repeal any legislation, program, bureaucracy in violation of our Constitution
3)Reclaim our gold from the Federal Reserve
4)Repeal the Federal Reserve act of 1913
5)Let Government coin our money according to the Constitution

Once 2012 comes around we want a Constitutional Convention:
1) Repeal the 16th amendment
2) Repeal the 17th amendment
3) Repeal the 27th amendment

New Amendment to replace those 3:
1)Installs the Fair Flat Tax
2)Restricts government to pay off deficit in a matter of 2-5 years
3) Restricts government to spend only what is revenue from those taxes
4) Definition of 'General Welfare' according to Founding Fathers original intent
5)Definition of 'Natural Law' according to Founding Fathers original intent
6)That the Federal Government is a Republic as are the states, and neither shall stray from x, y, and z principles
7) The States pay the wages of their Senators and House member but no States pay of these Senators or House members shall be higher than 125% of the lowest paid Senator or House member.

[Ricky201]

someone was passing out this flyer yesterday, seems like a reasonable plan, thoughts?



Instead of either side going after each other with 'ad hominem' attacks, which is a waste of our time, let's have a true discussion of how to fix the problems with the Republic you may not agree with my answers so let's hear some of yours here is my ideas:

For "We the People" need to start with our "petition of Government for redress of grievances" We need to find our constitutional lawyer he will next ask for our petitions and our list of demands. We need to advise the Lawyer to put up or down votes on the November ballots which we want to petition for.
Here's what we propose

1) Repeal this Health Care bill, and deal with the lobbyists
2) Repeal any legislation, program, bureaucracy in violation of our Constitution
3)Reclaim our gold from the Federal Reserve
4)Repeal the Federal Reserve act of 1913
5)Let Government coin our money according to the Constitution

Once 2012 comes around we want a Constitutional Convention:
1) Repeal the 16th amendment
2) Repeal the 17th amendment
3) Repeal the 27th amendment

New Amendment to replace those 3:
1)Installs the Fair Flat Tax
2)Restricts government to pay off deficit in a matter of 2-5 years
3) Restricts government to spend only what is revenue from those taxes
4) Definition of 'General Welfare' according to Founding Fathers original intent
5)Definition of 'Natural Law' according to Founding Fathers original intent
6)That the Federal Government is a Republic as are the states, and neither shall stray from x, y, and z principles
7) The States pay the wages of their Senators and House member but no States pay of these Senators or House members shall be higher than 125% of the lowest paid Senator or House member.

Err...wishful thinking. Don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful for the future...but I don't see pigs flying anytime soon.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Needs something about abuse of the Commerce Clause.

Also, a ConCon is dangerous as they can swap out the topic to whatever they want. You can bet if one happened, repeal of the 1st, 2nd and 4th would be at the top of the agenda. :(

Anyone want to address actual numbers and budgeting?

-t

[michaelwise]

It was when Ron Paul was running for president. Now a complete and total economic disaster is mathematically and scientifically guaranteed. We will have to start all over after the catastrophe that happens within the next few years.

[awake]

I'm sorry your country has political, spiritual and intellectual cancer, and it is terminal. You already have an economic dictator who can purchase anything.

[michaelwise]

I'm sorry your country has political, spiritual and intellectual cancer, and it is terminal. Ours is now a lousy country to live in. It's a total police state and completely corrupt.

[Number19]

I think, hypothetically, it could still be done as described, but we have gone over the edge and we have no more than 6 years to accomplish the plan - the 2012 administration. Only Ron Paul has the cred to lead during this crisis.

[fj45lvr]

having the federal government implode will be a good thing, nothing to cry about.


Instead of wasting time "fighting" against the machine put effort into setting up another government that is ready to take charge when this one implodes (local militia, a common law court, and organized network).... This is the best spent effort because it is liberating to not have to deal with the frustration....just ignore the gov. that does not have your consent and institute new gov. as your community sees fit.

[Fr3shjive]

having the federal government implode will be a good thing, nothing to cry about.


Instead of wasting time "fighting" against the machine put effort into setting up another government that is ready to take charge when this one implodes (local militia, a common law court, and organized network).... This is the best spent effort because it is liberating to not have to deal with the frustration....just ignore the gov. that does not have your consent and institute new gov. as your community sees fit.

To be honest I dont want the federal government to implode. The fall out of our currency failing will be horrible for not only the US but the entire world. I think If Ron Paul would have been president during this economic crisis we could have salvaged the american government but the way we're spending and the direction we're headed there is no way we're going to be able to get our selves out of the hole that politians have gotten us into.

If shit does hit the fan and we do need to start over let it be a lesson to be fiscally responsible and to take care of matters at home before we try to build an empire.

[tremendoustie]

Even if one could roll back the problems, one would first need to gain complete control over the federal government, which is a pretty much impossible task.

America is repairable, but the federal government, realistically, is not.

I agree, that a monetary collapse would be devastating.

I believe our best hope is peaceful secession -- that's why efforts like the free state project are so important. If we can rescue one state from the disaster that is the federal government, there is hope for freedom for all of us. Such a state could start using good money, and get out from under the fed's thumb, and so insulate themselves from future disruptions. We need to join together, and we need to do so before the real crisis hits.

[tangent4ronpaul]

having the federal government implode will be a good thing, nothing to cry about.


Instead of wasting time "fighting" against the machine put effort into setting up another government that is ready to take charge when this one implodes (local militia, a common law court, and organized network).... This is the best spent effort because it is liberating to not have to deal with the frustration....just ignore the gov. that does not have your consent and institute new gov. as your community sees fit.

That is an incredibly BAD idea! The wrong people would grab control. Look at what happened in Russia. At least we have some form of redress under the current situation. It's worth trying to save and reform.

Also, many, many people would go homeless and a huge number would die. Life savings would be wiped out. We would all become serfs. Systemic collapse is NOT a desirable option.

-t

[tremendoustie]

That is an incredibly BAD idea! The wrong people would grab control. Look at what happened in Russia. At least we have some form of redress under the current situation. It's worth trying to save and reform.

Also, many, many people would go homeless and a huge number would die. Life savings would be wiped out. We would all become serfs. Systemic collapse is NOT a desirable option.

-t

I agree. We need to get free now, to position ourselves well in case of a collapse. A collapse does not necessarily lead to liberty, just as the eradication of one mafia in sicily does not mean the eradication of mobs -- it just means chaos, and violence, while a new one takes over.

The federal government does absolutely nothing good. Convince even progressives that local government is the right way to implement their goals -- let's get together for state independence, before the feds drag us down with them.