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teacherone
04-16-2010, 07:00 AM
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf (http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf)




S u m m a r y . T h i s r e g u l a t i o n p r o v i d e s guidance for establishing and managing
civilian inmate labor programs on Army installations. It provides guidance on establishing
prison camps on Army installati o n s . I t a d d r e s s e s r e c o r d k e e p i n g a n d reporting incidents related to the Civilian Inmate Labor Program and/or prison camp administration.






1–5. Civilian inmate labor programs

a. Civilian inmate labor programs benefit both the Army and corrections systems by—
(1) Providing a source of labor at no direct labor cost to Army installations to accomplish tasks that would not be
possible otherwise due to the manning and funding constraints under which the Army operates.
(2) Providing meaningful work for inmates and, in some cases, additional space to alleviate overcrowding in nearby
corrections facilities.
(3) Making cost–effective use of buildings and land not otherwise being used.

b. Except for the 3 exceptions listed in paragraph 2–1d below, installation civilian inmate labor programs may use
civilian inmate labor only from Federal corrections facilities located either off or on the installation.

c. Keys to operating an effective civilian inmate labor program on Army installations include—
(1) Establishing a comprehensive lease agreement, interservice, interagency, and/or interdepartmental support agreement
(ISA), and/or memoranda of agreement with the corrections facility.
(2) Developing a cooperative working relationship between installation personnel and corrections facility personnel.
(3) Working closely with installation government employee labor unions to ensure union leaders understand the
program and have current information on program status.
(4) Training all installation personnel involved in the operation or administration of the program frequently.
(5) Developing a public affairs plan informing the installation and the surrounding local community of the program
and work projects assigned to civilian inmate labor.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 07:12 AM
A number of military installations are co-located with prisons. The prisons make prisoners available for tasks like cutting grass or picking up litter on the military base.

It's been happening for years (note that the latest edition of the AR updates a 1997 document of the same name, and it's probably been around a lot longer than that).

No big deal.

teacherone
04-16-2010, 07:31 AM
No big deal.


lol--no big deal.

so the feds can arrest you for breaking their impossible to follow law code and force you into a prison camp without compensation to provide a source of labor at no direct labor cost to Army installations to accomplish tasks that would not be possible otherwise due to the manning and funding constraints under which the Army operates.

no big deal...

lol

pcosmar
04-16-2010, 07:32 AM
It is a part of, and expansion of the REX 84 program.

Texan4Life
04-16-2010, 07:38 AM
working outside of prison is considered by many inmates a privilege, as it is a cure for intense boredom. I don't see a problem with it so long as it is voluntary.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 08:51 AM
lol--no big deal.

so the feds can arrest you for breaking their impossible to follow law code and force you into a prison camp without compensation to provide a source of labor at no direct labor cost to Army installations to accomplish tasks that would not be possible otherwise due to the manning and funding constraints under which the Army operates.

no big deal...

lol


If they weren't working on the army base, they'd be working in the prison itself. Making convicts do labor is hardly a new idea.

BTW, they aren't performing "impossible" tasks- most military bases DO NOT use prison labor. They hire contractors to do the labor. Also, the prisoners are paid, though it's not much.

For those military installations that do have a co-located prison, they are used rather than paying a contractor. If they weren't working on the base, they'd be making furniture for UNICOR or whatever. They don't get to sit in their cell all day doing nothing.

Just out of curiosity, what are these "impossible to follow law codes" for which people are going to Federal prison?

pcosmar
04-16-2010, 08:54 AM
If they weren't working on the army base, they'd be working in the prison itself. Making convicts do labor is hardly a new idea.

Just out of curiosity, what are these "impossible to follow law codes" for which people are going to Federal prison?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Olofson
As an immediate example off the top of my head.

There are hundreds , perhaps thousands of others.

moostraks
04-16-2010, 08:58 AM
lol--no big deal.

so the feds can arrest you for breaking their impossible to follow law code and force you into a prison camp without compensation to provide a source of labor at no direct labor cost to Army installations to accomplish tasks that would not be possible otherwise due to the manning and funding constraints under which the Army operates.

no big deal...

lol


You are absolutely right. The question should always be to whom goes the benefit?

moostraks
04-16-2010, 09:03 AM
If they weren't working on the army base, they'd be working in the prison itself. Making convicts do labor is hardly a new idea.

BTW, they aren't performing "impossible" tasks- most military bases DO NOT use prison labor. They hire contractors to do the labor. Also, the prisoners are paid, though it's not much.

Just out of curiosity, what are these "impossible to follow law codes" for which people are going to Federal prison?

Entertain this thought for a moment. If you expand the laws which will ensnare more people to provide the manpower to do the menial work so the military industrial complex can continue to expand its empire to continue to profit the people in the shadows who support the people who expand the laws which ensnare more people...

paulitics
04-16-2010, 09:08 AM
It's been happening for years

.

torture has been happening for years, NSA wiretapping has been happening for years, pre-emptive wars have been happening for years, microchipping has been happening for years......


WTF

MelissaWV
04-16-2010, 09:10 AM
While I agree that this isn't anything crazy or new (prisoners working), it does seem a bit morbid and cannibalistic. They will be, as moostraks pointed out, simultaneously victims of the machine, part of the machine, and helping the machine grow.

paulitics
04-16-2010, 09:12 AM
It is a part of, and expansion of the REX 84 program.

Of course. It is beyond evil, and needs to end immediately. Prisons on military bases belong in dictatorships only.

fisharmor
04-16-2010, 09:21 AM
Just out of curiosity, what are these "impossible to follow law codes" for which people are going to Federal prison?

How about the one where they redefined the word "among" to allow them to put you in federal prison for smoking a joint, or purchasing a functioning toilet?
How many people are breaking federal law this year because the tax software they spent $50 on isn't capable of figuring out what they owe?

Here's a book on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271431278&sr=8-1

foofighter20x
04-16-2010, 09:25 AM
lol--no big deal.

so the feds can arrest you for breaking their impossible to follow law code and force you into a prison camp without compensation to provide a source of labor at no direct labor cost to Army installations to accomplish tasks that would not be possible otherwise due to the manning and funding constraints under which the Army operates.

no big deal...

lol



Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Appears legit to me.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 09:29 AM
Entertain this thought for a moment. If you expand the laws which will ensnare more people to provide the manpower to do the menial work so the military industrial complex can continue to expand its empire to continue to profit the people in the shadows who support the people who expand the laws which ensnare more people...

Most of the people "ensnared" and serving time in a Federal prison are there for drug trafficking, fraud, embezzlement, counterfeiting, forgery, larceny, extortion, tax evasion, immigration and weapons violations and the like.

They aren't choir boys picked up on their way home from church solely for the purpose of procuring slave labor to cut grass on a military installation.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 09:33 AM
How many people are breaking federal law this year because the tax software they spent $50 on isn't capable of figuring out what they owe?


If your $50 version of Tax Cut makes an error, you aren't going to go to Federal Prison. The IRS will send you a letter telling you that you owe $x more and asking you to pay up. No trial, no prison, none of it - I got one of those letters and I can assure you, I have not spent time in Federal Prison- I just sent in the money I owed.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 09:36 AM
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

I'd love to know how they get away with involuntary servitude in cases like Jury Duty and the military draft, but I guess that's another topic.

pcosmar
04-16-2010, 09:36 AM
I just sent in the money I owed.

:o
:rolleyes:

pcosmar
04-16-2010, 09:46 AM
perhaps you won't care for these particular links,
They are just quick reference, You can find much more with only a little effort.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3010
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/fema_executive_orders.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

:(

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 10:08 AM
perhaps you won't care for these particular links,
They are just quick reference, You can find much more with only a little effort.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3010
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/fema_executive_orders.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

:(

What, no links to infowars or prison planet?

moostraks
04-16-2010, 10:27 AM
Most of the people "ensnared" and serving time in a Federal prison are there for drug trafficking, fraud, embezzlement, counterfeiting, forgery, larceny, extortion, tax evasion, immigration and weapons violations and the like.

They aren't choir boys picked up on their way home from church solely for the purpose of procuring slave labor to cut grass on a military installation.

http://www.constitution.org/ghansen/conghansen.htm

Let's start with Congressman Hansen.

Do you really trust government that much? Do you really believe the stories they tell you about protecting you from the bad guys? The most dangerous crooks are the ones running these programs.:mad:

You sound like an apologist for federal programs such a this merely because it has been going on for awhile so no need to mess with a good thing despite its capacity for abuse.

pcosmar
04-16-2010, 10:28 AM
What, no links to infowars or prison planet?

No
Why? There are many sources that I was aware of long before I heard of them here.
I'm sure they have some on this subject too.
Does that negate the facts?

moostraks
04-16-2010, 10:36 AM
What, no links to infowars or prison planet?

That's your best refutation? So I suppose guilt by association. It doesn't matter as I can singlehandly shut you people up by claiming kooky conspiracy theorists. What no website to indoctrinate us in the need for more and better surveillance to protect us from the msm boogey man of the week??? I am sure you can sell the warrantless traffic stops based on the rise of millitias.:rolleyes:

How about that invocation of domestic terrorism based upon who you voted for or what bumper stickers you have on your vehicle? No, that won't fill the federal prisons with any dissidents to the agenda of those in power. Good grief!!!

fisharmor
04-16-2010, 10:43 AM
Most of the people "ensnared" and serving time in a Federal prison are there for drug trafficking...
counterfeiting...
tax evasion, immigration and weapons violations and the like.....
I just sent in the money I owed.

Um, hi... you seem to be at the wrong website.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 10:50 AM
That's your best refutation?

Those are the usual web sites referred to for CT "information."

My point was that just because someone puts up some "information" on a web site does not make it true.

There is a lot of crazy shit on the internet. Seriously, I'm not kidding.

While I'd love to discuss all the CTs, there's a chem trail over my house and it's commanding me to not get into the weeds on this stuff.

moostraks
04-16-2010, 10:56 AM
Those are the usual web sites referred to for CT "information."

My point was that just because someone puts up some "information" on a web site does not make it true.

There is a lot of crazy shit on the internet. Seriously, I'm not kidding.

While I'd love to discuss all the CTs, there's a chem trail over my house and it's commanding me to not get into the weeds on this stuff.

I suppose Hansen's story is as well?:rolleyes:

You are being ridiculous.

moostraks
04-16-2010, 10:57 AM
Um, hi... you seem to be at the wrong website.

:D

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 11:05 AM
Okay, the chem trail has passed over- the government is no longer controlling me...for now. It's only a matter of time 'til they send another chem trail (or perhaps a squad of Bilderbergers?) to control me, so I must make this quick...

I now believe that the Federal government is going to round everyone up and force them to cut grass at a military base.

Was that adequately CT supportive/paranoid enough to satisfy for all of you?

pcosmar
04-16-2010, 11:13 AM
Was that adequately CT supportive/paranoid enough to satisfy for all of you?

Not a Conspiracy theory, despite what you would like to belittle it as.

These are facts.
Not theory.
And you are a disinfo agent.
Also a fact.
:(

MelissaWV
04-16-2010, 11:13 AM
Okay, the chem trail has passed over- the government is no longer controlling me...for now. It's only a matter of time 'til they send another chem trail (or perhaps a squad of Bilderbergers?) to control me, so I must make this quick...

I now believe that the Federal government is going to round everyone up and force them to cut grass at a military base.

Was that adequately CT supportive/paranoid enough to satisfy for all of you?

Do you have anything constructive to say?

moostraks
04-16-2010, 11:19 AM
Okay, the chem trail has passed over- the government is no longer controlling me...for now. It's only a matter of time 'til they send another chem trail (or perhaps a squad of Bilderbergers?) to control me, so I must make this quick...

I now believe that the Federal government is going to round everyone up and force them to cut grass at a military base.

Was that adequately CT supportive/paranoid enough to satisfy for all of you?

How old are you, 12? You can't refute any of the information with a valid response regarding the increase in federal laws which are directed at political dissidents and the previous abuse of said system on those self same people which ironically feeds the same coalition used to expand said empire??? You sound like the lame msm.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 11:20 AM
Do you have anything constructive to say?

Sure, what do you want me to say? Any pet conspiracy theories you'd like me to support?

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 11:22 AM
How old are you, 12? You can't refute any of the information with a valid response regarding the increase in federal laws which are directed at political dissidents and the previous abuse of said system on those self same people which ironically feeds the same coalition used to expand said empire??? You sound like the lame msm.

If I was 12, I'd already be a Federal Prisoner mowing lawns someplace.

When I was 12, I was at my lawn mowing peak!

teacherone
04-16-2010, 11:35 AM
lol--- a libertarian troll statist...

move along people--- feed the pigeons instead

moostraks
04-16-2010, 11:46 AM
lol--- a libertarian troll statist...

move along people--- feed the pigeons instead

lol...just did that before the storms rolled in. They love sunflowers!!!:D

MelissaWV
04-16-2010, 11:52 AM
Sure, what do you want me to say? Any pet conspiracy theories you'd like me to support?

I don't have any conspiracy theories. They're a waste of my time.

It's more than a little sad you can't come up with something decent to say on your own. I don't believe you're a complete troll, but it seems like you have a hell of an arrogance issue.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 11:58 AM
Not a Conspiracy theory, despite what you would like to belittle it as.

These are facts.
Not theory.
And you are a disinfo agent.
Also a fact.
:(

Sorry for the late reply, I overlooked your post.

Wow, that's some great stuff.


There over 800 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty.

I'm sure this must be true because it's on the internet.

So, which is it, are we all going to Federal prisons to cut grass for the Army, or will it be a FEMA camp (or "FEMA CONCENTRATION Camp, as the web site calls them)?

Will I be able to choose which FEMA camp I go to, or will I be assigned to one? Can I get a nicer room if I promise to support the Bilderbergers, or even use my military training and volunteer to man the door gun on a black helicopter?

"Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons."

Yes, I'm sure this is also true (again, it must be, because it's on the internet).

In my military career and civilian career, I've been to probably hundreds of military installations all over the world, including many of those closed by BRAC. I must have just not noticed all those "Concentration camps" located at those bases.

Or maybe I did see them. Maybe I'm just a "disinfo agent" screwing with you.

Maybe I was sent here by the Bilderbergers (or the CFR or Trilateral commission or the international bankers) to post more than 2,000 times over a period of 3 years just to gain your trust.

Then again, if that were the case, wouldn't I just be agreeing with all the conspiracy theories rather than mocking them?

Maybe the disinfo agents are the ones PRETENDING to support the CTs- going along with you, agreeing with you, gaining your trust and THEN THEY GET YOU!

You just can't trust anyone, can you?

Be careful, people, be careful.

Look in your closet and under your bed before going to sleep- you never know when TPTB will GET YOU!

What's that noise you hear late at night? Is it just your imagination, or is it the Illuminati peeking at your stuff, gathering evidence to send you to a FEMA concentration camp?

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 12:02 PM
It's more than a little sad you can't come up with something decent to say on your own. I don't believe you're a complete troll, but it seems like you have a hell of an arrogance issue.

Not believing in CT's is "arrogant?"

Okay.

MelissaWV
04-16-2010, 12:21 PM
Not believing in CT's is "arrogant?"

Okay.

You didn't read the rest of my post, I guess, since I don't waste my time on conspiracy theories, either. I did not call myself arrogant.

Your condescension is palpable. Your assumption that I was some crazy conspiracist kook you could easily define and dismiss was immediate and absolute. You were making semi-rational observations earlier in the thread, but that has disintegrated, which is why I asked if you had anything constructive to add.

It appears my question has been answered with a resounding "NO."

moostraks
04-16-2010, 12:22 PM
Not believing in CT's is "arrogant?"

Okay.

Congressman Hansen is a CT???

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 12:54 PM
Congressman Hansen is a CT???

I haven't said a thing about "congressman hansen."

I never said there are no innocent people in Federal prison (or any other prison for that matter).

Sometimes innocent people are convicted. The fact that you can point to one (or a dozen or 100) wrongfully convicted people has nothing to do with the Army Regulation.

The military uses prison labor to cut grass, rake leaves, pick up litter and the like. These guys would be WORKING ANYWAY- if they weren't raking leaves, they'd be working in the prison.

The Military is NOT "rounding up" people to work there. They aren't going around collecting innocents just to get the grass mowed for free. These are prisoners already in the system, who are going to be working anyway.

Maybe some of you find it abhorrent that convicted prisoners are made to work during the day, but I just don't find it all that terrible. They may as well be doing something useful with at least part of their time.

Look, if you all want to grab a torch and a pitchfork and run screaming into the streets about this, go ahead- it's Friday, have a blast.

But I'm having a real hard time working myself into a frenzy over this- I guess some of you are just a lot better at it than I am.

BTW, for those of you who find yourself terribly upset about this gross injustice, I have some words of comfort. I've seen these guys at the job site- and trust me, they aren't being worked to death. They looked pretty much like any government work crew- pacing themselves- it wasn't like anything out of "Cool Hand Luke."

moostraks
04-16-2010, 01:46 PM
I haven't said a thing about "congressman hansen."

I never said there are no innocent people in Federal prison (or any other prison for that matter).

Sometimes innocent people are convicted. The fact that you can point to one (or a dozen or 100) wrongfully convicted people has nothing to do with the Army Regulation.

The military uses prison labor to cut grass, rake leaves, pick up litter and the like. These guys would be WORKING ANYWAY- if they weren't raking leaves, they'd be working in the prison.

The Military is NOT "rounding up" people to work there. They aren't going around collecting innocents just to get the grass mowed for free. These are prisoners already in the system, who are going to be working anyway.

Maybe some of you find it abhorrent that convicted prisoners are made to work during the day, but I just don't find it all that terrible. They may as well be doing something useful with at least part of their time.

Look, if you all want to grab a torch and a pitchfork and run screaming into the streets about this, go ahead- it's Friday, have a blast.

But I'm having a real hard time working myself into a frenzy over this- I guess some of you are just a lot better at it than I am.

BTW, for those of you who find yourself terribly upset about this gross injustice, I have some words of comfort. I've seen these guys at the job site- and trust me, they aren't being worked to death. They looked pretty much like any government work crew- pacing themselves- it wasn't like anything out of "Cool Hand Luke."

You know you so arrogantly and flippantly dismissed everyones discussion as being completely conspiracy fodder. You are the one who put forth the assertion that those in federal prison are violent or deserving offenders.

I stated that the whole system as it stands allows them to basically profit off the backs of those who disagree with them. Case in point the way they handled the Hansen case. Add to that their wholehearted desire to paint anyone who disagrees with them as a rascist nutcase and domestic terrorist you have a big problem. (see Patriot Act and Hate crimes laws) (I am sure the similarity to your tactics is just coincidence and not because you have found they are quite effective with smear tactics being used!)


If you remove the incentive for them to expand the federal laws that they are getting cheap labor from and instead have them looking in the eye a bunch of disgruntled and bored as hell convicts we might stem some of the tide of all this federalization of laws that is going on. No brainer imo...

You might find it peachy keen to have the prisoners mowing lawns but that frees up one more soldier to blow heads off foreigners. I would rather slow down that type of progress.

Was there a MIAC report that singled out people for their political affiliation? Does the Patriot Act get abused? Are people finding themselves increasingly at the mercy of a burdensome level of rules and regulations punishable at the federal level? These aren't conspiracies no matter how dismissive and deragatory you might want to be towards those of us who take the tenuous nature of our current liberty very seriously!!!

You can sweep it under the rug all you want but at the end of the day you got one big lump that has to be dealt with. Remove the incentive and you remove some of the initiative to punish people for crimes of thought instead of deed as is in vogue nowadays.

libertarian4321
04-16-2010, 03:04 PM
You might find it peachy keen to have the prisoners mowing lawns but that frees up one more soldier to blow heads off foreigners. I would rather slow down that type of progress.



Not at all.

Soldiers wouldn't be mowing the lawns, civilian contractors would - at taxpayer expense, which is the way it's done at the vast majority of military bases that don't have ready access to prison labor.

So for the small number of military installations that have access to prison labor, it essentially it comes down to: 1) Use prisoners who are already there and would be working anyway and save a few bucks for the taxpayer or 2) hire a contractor to do the lawns.

Either way, that soldier is NOT going to be mowing lawns. I don't have any problem with a convict doing light labor while serving time for his crime (and despite your protestations to the contrary, most of those guys ARE CRIMINALS).

Good lord, I was mowing lawns when I was 12, and I worked a hell of a lot harder than those clowns do. It isn't going to kill them.

Maybe I'm insensitive to the plight of convicts, but I'm still having a hard time shedding crocodile tears on this one.

teacherone
04-16-2010, 03:35 PM
why the hell are you stuck on lawn mowing? got some sick grass fetish?

may i remind you-- from the OP


1) Providing a source of labor at no direct labor cost to Army installations to accomplish tasks that would not be possible otherwise due to the manning and funding constraints under which the Army operates.


i'm pretty sure the army has lawn mowing somewhere in its obscene budget. so what are these prisoners going to then in their civilian labor camp?

curious minds want to know... (not closed minded faux-liberterian minds apparently)

moostraks
04-16-2010, 03:38 PM
Not at all.

Soldiers wouldn't be mowing the lawns, civilian contractors would - at taxpayer expense, which is the way it's done at the vast majority of military bases that don't have ready access to prison labor.

So for the small number of military installations that have access to prison labor, it essentially it comes down to: 1) Use prisoners who are already there and would be working anyway and save a few bucks for the taxpayer or 2) hire a contractor to do the lawns.

Either way, that soldier is NOT going to be mowing lawns. I don't have any problem with a convict doing light labor while serving time for his crime (and despite your protestations to the contrary, most of those guys ARE CRIMINALS).

Good lord, I was mowing lawns when I was 12, and I worked a hell of a lot harder than those clowns do. It isn't going to kill them.

Maybe I'm insensitive to the plight of convicts, but I'm still having a hard time shedding crocodile tears on this one.

Disparage, ignore, minimalize...are you through?

You can overlook the federalization issue (regarding law expansion) all you like but it won't go away. Just cause it saves a dime doesn't make it right. It is a system ripe for corruption with a government itching to put people away for federal crimes for speech and thought as well as for affiliation with an opposing political party.

Come back when you have something more substantial then they haven't got you in there for opposition so it must be okay because, ya know most of the guys are crooks. Life has a way of making it real especially for those in ivory towers. The government can and does regularly abuse its power. This is making it profitable for them to do so. If you can't see that you are in bed with the enemy or a fool.

moostraks
04-16-2010, 03:40 PM
why the hell are you stuck on lawn mowing? got some sick grass fetish?

may i remind you-- from the OP



i'm pretty sure the army has lawn mowing somewhere in its obscene budget. so what are these prisoners going to then in their civilian labor camp?

curious minds want to know... (not closed minded faux-liberterian minds apparently)

thanks for bringing that forward!!!