Went to an area Tea party/Rally today

[papajohn56]

Brought my "RON PAUL WAS RIGHT" and "END THE FED" signs. Got very few comments on it, but the main thing that disturbed me was it turned into gay bashing and anti-abortion.

"The gays in the bathhouses spread AIDS, we should just tell them to stop doing what they do!"

"Protect them unborn babies!"

It focused more on religious issues than economic ones. It's no wonder this has lost its way so fast, these fundamentalists need to go.

I got in an argument with an older man who called me a 'liar' for saying Thomas Jefferson was deist, not Christian. Asked him if he'd jump off a cliff if his preacher told him to, he didn't like that too much. He said I was crazy and that America needs prayer in schools and God/the 10 commandments in the courthouse. I called him a religious extremist no better than the terrorists, and he really got mad. Oh well.

[TroySmith]

I called him a religious extremist no better than the terrorists, and he really got mad. Oh well.


In my opinion, this is very counter-productive. The emphasis should ALWAYS be on liberty and individualism. Calling someone names, even if they deserve it, doesn't help bring people to the cause. It only alienates them and changes the conversation from something logical and productive to something emotional and negative.

[haaaylee]

the speakers were saying this?

[Pete_00]

You went to a Tea Party Rally and the only thing on their agenda was gays, abortions and religious issues??

Right... :rolleyes:

The objective of this post and the fiction it contains are very obvious...

[Brett]

What's wrong with being a fundamentalist? I'm sure he also supported school vouchers, so his views wouldn't force anything on you.

Liberty needs to be big tent supporters, even if we only support the best candidates.

[Daamien]

Focus on what you can agree with when talking to fundamentalists... limited government and freedom. You aren't going to win them over with an argument. That being said, it's really sad how the Tea Party movement was hijacked by neoconservatives and fundamentalists.

[papajohn56]

You went to a Tea Party Rally and the only thing on their agenda was gays, abortions and religious issues??

Right... :rolleyes:

The objective of this post and the fiction it contains are very obvious...

Dead serious. I'm a straight Paul supporter. The majority of things discussed were about moral issues and abortion. Taxes and the economy were less than 50% of the mentioned topics, and yes, by the speakers. Here's the promotional image that was for the rally:

http://imgur.com/nuNw8.jpg

[papajohn56]

What's wrong with being a fundamentalist? I'm sure he also supported school vouchers, so his views wouldn't force anything on you.

Liberty needs to be big tent supporters, even if we only support the best candidates.

Considering they said prayer in schools should be mandatory, I doubt it.

[gls]

Yeah, I left immediately after Schiff spoke when the next speaker was annouced as a "social conservative". I could take the flag waving and patriotic song singing (at a supposed anti-government demonstration :rolleyes:), and the fact that for some reason there were crosses on top of the ceremonial flags and frequent references to God and moments of silence, but what do "social conservatives" have to do with limited government? If anything they are a part of the problem because they approve of government coercion as long as it is in line with their personal values.

Of course even the fiscal conservative rhetoric was way too restrained and shallow considering that trillions have recently been stolen from the American people by banks and corporations. It was also quite partisan. Peter was the only speaker who called out the GOP/Bush Administration for their part in bringing us to this point (briefly).

[papajohn56]

In my opinion, this is very counter-productive. The emphasis should ALWAYS be on liberty and individualism. Calling someone names, even if they deserve it, doesn't help bring people to the cause. It only alienates them and changes the conversation from something logical and productive to something emotional and negative.

Heated moment. He called me a liar, crazy, and a "stupid kid for believing that liberal trash" (I'm 23).

[Jeremy]

This was foolish of you. You polarized people we want to bring on our side. You had a Ron Paul sign and acted like their enemy. Please learn to act representatively of this movement.

[JeNNiF00F00]

this is why I did not attend the tea party this year. Last year was more about anti abortion, and religion. Maybe 1 or two end the fed signs that I could see and there were thousands there. Very neocon.

[JeNNiF00F00]

This was foolish of you. You polarized people we want to bring on our side. You had a Ron Paul sign and acted like their enemy. Please learn to act representatively of this movement.

We want these people? :p

[papajohn56]

This was foolish of you. You polarized people we want to bring on our side. You had a Ron Paul sign and acted like their enemy. Please learn to act representatively of this movement.

The majority there didn't know who Paul was, and I say that honestly. I talked to some people and had a good conversation, but so many were just off the deep end. This spat got started when the 'mandatory prayer in schools' comments were made, and I said Jefferson called for the wall of separation to protect freedom. It wasn't just to protect the citizens from evangelized religion, it was also to protect religion from being perverted by people in positions of educational power.

These extremists infiltrated the Republican party in the 1980's - I'd rather shove them out, then attract them.

[papajohn56]

this is why I did not attend the tea party this year. Last year was more about anti abortion, and religion. Maybe 1 or two end the fed signs that I could see and there were thousands there. Very neocon.

Yeah this was here in South Carolina. Check out the image, you'll see where.

[Pete_00]

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Ron Paul

http://www.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=916

:)

Go ask the citizens of the Roman Empire about this...wait...they are no longer around :eek:

[papajohn56]

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Ron Paul

http://www.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=916

:)

Go ask the citizens of the Roman Empire about this...wait...they are no longer around :eek:

Ron Paul wouldn't force his beliefs on anyone else though, he knows it's not his, nor a government's position. If you think evangelizing non-christians should be part of this movement, you're in the wrong place. The Roman Empire, it could be argued, fell as a direct result of Christianity's rise - along with the integration of Germanic barbarians into their society, as well as the split between the east and west empires. It's not as simple as you portray.

[Jeremy]

Are you forgetting that Ron Paul is a prolife Christian? As is the majority of this movement. Challenge them on freedom, not their religious views. You could have handeled the situation far better.

[Jordan]

Are you forgetting that Ron Paul is a prolife Christian? As is the majority of this movement. Challenge them on freedom, not their religious views. You could have handeled the situation far better.

I actually agree with Jeremy. Hell clearly froze over.

[papajohn56]

Are you forgetting that Ron Paul is a prolife Christian? As is the majority of this movement. Challenge them on freedom, not their religious views. You could have handeled the situation far better.

He also says abortion should be left to the states, not an outright federal ban.

[JoshLowry]

Are you forgetting that Ron Paul is a prolife Christian? As is the majority of this movement. Challenge them on freedom, not their religious views. You could have handeled the situation far better.

He also says abortion should be left to the states, not an outright federal ban.

:confused:

[Chester Copperpot]

Im guessing in your area there just happen to be a higher percentage of people whos priorities are things like abortion and prayer in school... What can you do.. everybody's different.

[papajohn56]

Im guessing in your area there just happen to be a higher percentage of people whos priorities are things like abortion and prayer in school... What can you do.. everybody's different.

Well this county went for Huckabee in 2008. There were signs around saying it would be God's will to have a preacher in office.

[Daamien]

Yeah, I left immediately after Schiff spoke when the next speaker was annouced as a "social conservative". I could take the flag waving and patriotic song singing (at a supposed anti-government demonstration :rolleyes:), and the fact that for some reason there were crosses on top of the ceremonial flags and frequent references to God and moments of silence, but what do "social conservatives" have to do with limited government? If anything they are a part of the problem because they approve of government coercion as long as it is in line with their personal values.

Of course even the fiscal conservative rhetoric was way too restrained and shallow considering that trillions have recently been stolen from the American people by banks and corporations. It was also quite partisan. Peter was the only speaker who called out the GOP/Bush Administration for their part in bringing us to this point (briefly).

Thanks for the recap. I'm glad you enjoyed Peter's speech. I hope it was recorded!

[Jeremy]

Who cares? We should be trying to bring anybody and everybody on our side. Many people here weren't libertarians until Ron Paul came a long. Don't worry about the small differences. Focus on how they support liberty in some way... it's our job to encourage them to apply it to their entire political philosophy.

[papajohn56]

Who cares? We should be trying to bring anybody and everybody on our side. Many people here weren't libertarians until Ron Paul came a long. Don't worry about the small differences. Focus on how they support liberty in some way... it's our job to encourage them to apply it to their entire political philosophy.

This is how the Republican party got ruined in the 80s, by saying "Bring the Social Conservatives aboard"

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Thanks for the recap. I'm glad you enjoyed Peter's speech. I hope it was recorded!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=240381

Here is Peter's speech at the Hartford Tea Party

[Daamien]

Ron Paul wouldn't force his beliefs on anyone else though, he knows it's not his, nor a government's position. If you think evangelizing non-christians should be part of this movement, you're in the wrong place. The Roman Empire, it could be argued, fell as a direct result of Christianity's rise - along with the integration of Germanic barbarians into their society, as well as the split between the east and west empires. It's not as simple as you portray.

Exactly. The Roman empire declined for a number of reasons, some of which include:

Debasement of the currency
Over-extension of the empire with poor defense of the capitol
Reliance on an elitist class system rather than a republican meritocracy
Christianity's challenge to imperial control of religion and festivals
Use of mercenaries in the military
Reliance on client-kingdoms for frontier defense
Integration migrant Germanic and Central Asian populations into social, military, and imperial hierarchy
Shift of capitol from Rome to Constantinople and the subsequent system of co-emperors which lead to the split into the Western and Eastern Roman Empire


To suggest that the Roman Empire collapsed due to decaying morality is laughably ignorant of history.

[Jeremy]

If we can't change people, you better start making tons of liberty babies because it sounds like you're forgetting we are still a small minority. We don't have room to make more enemies. And I'm not saying we should give power to anti freedom people. We should just encourage them to support liberty in a broader way.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

If we can't change people, you better start making tons of liberty babies because it sounds like you're forgetting we are still a small minority. We don't have room to make more enemies. And I'm not saying we should give power to anti freedom people. We should just encourage them to support liberty in a broader way.

I understand where the OP is coming from though. Some of these folks are just ignorant idiots. I was talking to this guy at the Subway getting ready to hit the Tea Party here, and I was probing him on Ron Paul and they guy was just stuck on gay marriage, kicking immigrants out of the country, and Obama apologizing to other countries. Dude was just hard headed and then called Ron Paul a "fucking nut case" , I wanted to smack that man with my 5 dollar footlong. But I just said "you'll see" and walked off. :mad:

[phill4paul]

You went to a Tea Party Rally and the only thing on their agenda was gays, abortions and religious issues??

Right... :rolleyes:

The objective of this post and the fiction it contains are very obvious...

Yep.

Edit: OK after reading further I understand the plausibility of it. Oh well. Don't take it so harshly and spread the message where ya can.

[AuH20]

Exactly. The Roman empire declined for a number of reasons, some of which include:

Debasement of the currency
Over-extension of the empire with poor defense of the capitol
Reliance on an elitist class system rather than a republican meritocracy
Christianity's challenge to imperial control of religion and festivals
Use of mercenaries in the military
Reliance on client-kingdoms for frontier defense
Integration migrant Germanic and Central Asian populations into social, military, and imperial hierarchy
Shift of capitol from Rome to Constantinople and the subsequent system of co-emperors which lead to the split into the Western and Eastern Roman Empire


To suggest that the Roman Empire collapsed due to decaying morality is laughably ignorant of history.

Ummmm. Ever heard of Nero........Bread and Circuses? Rampant gluttony and hedonism? These were all agents of dehumanization that accompanied the rapid decline of the Roman Empire. I'm no morals warrior, but when you break down the barriers of self-responsibility and place an overriding importance on superficial activities, your society is ripe for a downfall. Like Alex Jones pointed out today, some citizens are more concerned about a soulless device like an Ipad as opposed to the rights of their fellow man.

[phill4paul]

Ummmm. Nero........Bread and Circuses? Rampant gluttony and hedonism? These were all agents of dehumanization that accompanied the rapid decline of the Roman Empire. I'm no morals warrior, but when you break down the barriers of self-responsibility and place an overriding importance on superficial activities, your society is ripe for a downfall. Like Alex Jones pointed out today, more citizens are more concerned about a soulless device like an Ipad as opposed to the well-being of their fellow man.


The rampant gluttony and hedonism were an offshoot of run away government. When people feel powerless over the government they question their own power and self worth. Superficial activities are a natural action to feel in control when one feels powerless. Shrink the government and self worth and community standing will drive individuals to lead a moral life.

[moostraks]

I understand where the OP is coming from though. Some of these folks are just ignorant idiots. I was talking to this guy at the Subway getting ready to hit the Tea Party here, and I was probing him on Ron Paul and they guy was just stuck on gay marriage, kicking immigrants out of the country, and Obama apologizing to other countries. Dude was just hard headed and then called Ron Paul a "fucking nut case" , I wanted to smack that man with my 5 dollar footlong. But I just said "you'll see" and walked off. :mad:

ugh...that is why I couldn't conceive of going to these things. I don't have the patience for this nonsense.

[moostraks]

The rampant gluttony and hedonism were an offshoot of run away government. When people feel powerless over the government they question their own power and self worth. Superficial activities are a natural action to feel in control when one feels powerless. Shrink the government and self worth and community standing will drive individuals to lead a moral life.

Interesting theory...(no-I am not being rude I genuinely find this an interesting way of looking at the situation)

[Daamien]

Ummmm. Ever heard of Nero........Bread and Circuses? Rampant gluttony and hedonism? These were all agents of dehumanization that accompanied the rapid decline of the Roman Empire. I'm no morals warrior, but when you break down the barriers of self-responsibility and place an overriding importance on superficial activities, your society is ripe for a downfall. Like Alex Jones pointed out today, some citizens are more concerned about a soulless device like an Ipad as opposed to the rights of their fellow man.

Just to make sure I understand your point correctly, you believe that Emperor Nero who ruled until 68 AD was instrumental in the decline of the Roman Empire despite the fact that the empire didn't even split until after Emperor Diocletian's Tetrarchy in 293 AD? The saying "Bread and Circuses" comes from centralized actions to maintain an image of authority, keep the public complacent, and ignore unpopular policy decisions and outside influences. It does not explain the decline of the empire itself from an economic, military, or political view. In fact, "Bread and Circuses" was even utilized by the Roman Republic prior to the dictatorship of Julius Caesar and the creation of the empire by Caesar Augustus.

I completely agree with you that an ignorant and complacent society is extremely bad for the health of a nation, but keep in mind that the Roman Empire continued to grow and prosper for generations despite "Bread and Circuses". Therefore, I hardly consider that a primary reason for the eventual demise of the imperial system.

By the way, we are way off topic now... but I do enjoy historical debates :)

[bunklocoempire]

double tap

[bunklocoempire]

Brought my "RON PAUL WAS RIGHT" and "END THE FED" signs. Got very few comments on it, but the main thing that disturbed me was it turned into gay bashing and anti-abortion.

"The gays in the bathhouses spread AIDS, we should just tell them to stop doing what they do!"

"Protect them unborn babies!"

It focused more on religious issues than economic ones. It's no wonder this has lost its way so fast, these fundamentalists need to go.

I got in an argument with an older man who called me a 'liar' for saying Thomas Jefferson was deist, not Christian. Asked him if he'd jump off a cliff if his preacher told him to, he didn't like that too much. He said I was crazy and that America needs prayer in schools and God/the 10 commandments in the courthouse. I called him a religious extremist no better than the terrorists, and he really got mad. Oh well.

The divisive stuff is just that, divisive.

If/when dealing with a "Christian", you can agree that Jefferson, and the founders placed the emphasis on the individual, just as a Christian with a mature faith believes God places the emphasis on the individual

-individual accountability, individual responsibility for ones self, individual responsibility to fellow man, you get the idea.


Bunkloco

[DjLoTi]

Not everyone is perfect. It's too bad your tea party event was less then perfect. I think you did fine. The only thing better you could have done was said nothing and handed out Ron Paul slim jims ;) lol =P

[ninepointfive]

The tea Party in Loveland Colorado was awesome! Not one outspoken racist or anything. Just good honest Americans who want their government back! And this is where we steer it to the Constitution!

[Anti Federalist]

The rampant gluttony and hedonism were an offshoot of run away government. When people feel powerless over the government they question their own power and self worth. Superficial activities are a natural action to feel in control when one feels powerless. Shrink the government and self worth and community standing will drive individuals to lead a moral life.

That and that and that and that +1000 ^^^^

[JeNNiF00F00]

Yeah this was here in South Carolina. Check out the image, you'll see where.

ughh. Yeah I see where you're from. I lived down in Tampa FL when the Ron Paul movement started building up and the people down there are totally different than those up here. We were crazy, had fun doing it and we were waking people up.

Then I move here, and things are totally different. I mean, the ron paul meetup group I was in CENSORED my email, and I rarely got anything that wasnt dictated by 2 of the "moderators". In tampa I was getting hundreds of emails and people were communicating and rallying eachother for protests and sign waving etc.

Sharon Clark or whatever her name is deleted an entire paragraph because she didn't like what I said. I was only trying to rally the people up and get them excited. I go to the tea party, have 3 political speakers say something, it was very loud which was great, until they started chanting the USA USA USA USA, then I knew I was in neocon hell. One of the speakers even talked about how amazing the symbols were on the backs of our currency(no fucking joke), and from my understanding this was supposed to be about protesting taxes and ending the fed.

When the establishment speakers left, everyone just walked off. NO patriotic speakers, no people rallying and making noise, no bullhorns, no cheering. Everyone was just politely angry for all the wrong reasons, and still obviously supporting the establishment that has gotten us in this mess in the first place. From what I saw, it was just people complaining because theyre pissed off neocon statists, that aren't getting their way. They're just as bad as the "Progressives". Same thing in my mind.

[JeNNiF00F00]

I understand where the OP is coming from though. Some of these folks are just ignorant idiots. I was talking to this guy at the Subway getting ready to hit the Tea Party here, and I was probing him on Ron Paul and they guy was just stuck on gay marriage, kicking immigrants out of the country, and Obama apologizing to other countries. Dude was just hard headed and then called Ron Paul a "fucking nut case" , I wanted to smack that man with my 5 dollar footlong. But I just said "you'll see" and walked off. :mad:

You sir made my day. :)

[tangent4ronpaul]

Anybody heard attendance numbers for the tea parties?

There were supposed to be between 300 and 750 of them.
DC's official count was 40,000, down from 300,000 Sept 12. I may have misheard and it could have been 400,000 - that makes more sence as people were all the back to the monument - half the park full...
One in Pleasonton CA drew "thousands"
Another in NY (assume not city) drew 600
...

I heard one estimate of 2 Million expected to attend one of them.

-t

[moonshineplease]

I got in an argument with an older man who called me a 'liar' for saying Thomas Jefferson was deist, not Christian. Asked him if he'd jump off a cliff if his preacher told him to, he didn't like that too much. He said I was crazy and that America needs prayer in schools and God/the 10 commandments in the courthouse. I called him a religious extremist no better than the terrorists, and he really got mad. Oh well.

Well I think You did the right thing. There are just certain people that cant be reached by the message of liberty, and there are certain demographics on both sides of the political sphere that just utterly piss me off(that type being one). Im glad you stood your ground and gave the hardline christian fundamentalist a dose of reality. Hes bound to get hit by it like a bucket of rocks sooner or later. Thanks for having the courage to show anyway.

[tangent4ronpaul]

ughh. Yeah I see where you're from. I lived down in Tampa FL when the Ron Paul movement started building up and the people down there are totally different than those up here. We were crazy, had fun doing it and we were waking people up.

Then I move here, and things are totally different. I mean, the ron paul meetup group I was in CENSORED my email, and I rarely got anything that wasnt dictated by 2 of the "moderators". In tampa I was getting hundreds of emails and people were communicating and rallying eachother for protests and sign waving etc.

Sharon Clark or whatever her name is deleted an entire paragraph because she didn't like what I said. I was only trying to rally the people up and get them excited. I go to the tea party, have 3 political speakers say something, it was very loud which was great, until they started chanting the USA USA USA USA, then I knew I was in neocon hell. One of the speakers even talked about how amazing the symbols were on the backs of our currency(no fucking joke), and from my understanding this was supposed to be about protesting taxes and ending the fed.

When the establishment speakers left, everyone just walked off. NO patriotic speakers, no people rallying and making noise, no bullhorns, no cheering. Everyone was just politely angry for all the wrong reasons, and still obviously supporting the establishment that has gotten us in this mess in the first place. From what I saw, it was just people complaining because theyre pissed off neocon statists, that aren't getting their way. They're just as bad as the "Progressives". Same thing in my mind.

Start your own meetup to compete with the control freaks - it's happened many times and usually people bail for freedom.

-t

[silentshout]

The religious thing kinda turns me off too. I'm pretty much an agnostic theist/ deist but the people like this make me worried that they want everyone to believe what they do. I don't care what other people believe but there are many people that go to our local tea parties (they post stuff on our local paper's website) that pretty much think all non-Christians are not US citizens. scary stuff and not indicative of liberty to me.

[free1]

Why aren't the Tea Party people screaming about this?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=239938

[puppetmaster]

BS

[MN Patriot]

St Paul MN Tea Party was peaceful. About 1000 people there, coming and going. Not the biggest crowd I've seen there. Lots of volunteer security people, waiting for the liberal protesters, but they chickened out.

Be there May 8. Jason Lewis is hosting the tax protest that day, bet there will be 5000 people there, or more. http://www.ktlkfm.com/pages/taxcut.html

May 1 is Freedom Day on the Capitol grounds. Cannons will be firing oatmeal in celebration of what freedom we have left. http://freedomday0501.net/

[papajohn56]

BS

Did you not read the rest of the thread at all? Obviously not.

[Inflation]

Exactly. The Roman empire declined for a number of reasons, some of which include:

Debasement of the currency
Over-extension of the empire with poor defense of the capitol
Reliance on an elitist class system rather than a republican meritocracy
Christianity's challenge to imperial control of religion and festivals
Use of mercenaries in the military
Reliance on client-kingdoms for frontier defense
Integration migrant Germanic and Central Asian populations into social, military, and imperial hierarchy
Shift of capitol from Rome to Constantinople and the subsequent system of co-emperors which lead to the split into the Western and Eastern Roman Empire


To suggest that the Roman Empire collapsed due to decaying morality is laughably ignorant of history.

That suggestion has some merit.

Only an immoral people would allow their govt to debase the money, etc, etc.

The immoral Romans got the govt they deserved, as do all people.

[papajohn56]

Only an immoral people would allow their govt to debase the money, etc, etc..

Or one kept ignorant by their leaders, not necessarily immoral. How many people here in the US do you think know what debasing a currency even means?

[revolutionisnow]

That suggestion has some merit.

Only an immoral people would allow their govt to debase the money, etc, etc.

The immoral Romans got the govt they deserved, as do all people.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/2377738072_bd7ab8362b.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_of_the_Byzantine_Empire

[AuH20]

That suggestion has some merit.

Only an immoral people would allow their govt to debase the money, etc, etc.

The immoral Romans got the govt they deserved, as do all people.

Nero greatly depreciated the silver content of the Denarius as well. ;)

[silus]

Only an immoral people would allow their govt to debase the money, etc, etc.

The immoral Romans got the govt they deserved, as do all people.
Karma is bullshit. But it can make you feel warm and fuzzy inside.