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View Full Version : Joplin Missouri Tea Party Writeup - spinjob by the (un)FairTaxers




nayjevin
04-14-2010, 09:10 PM
Tea party rally slated for Thursday in Joplin
Organizers favor ‘fair tax’
By Susan Redden
Globe Staff Writer

JOPLIN, Mo- — A crowd is expected Thursday for a tea party rally that will end at the Joplin post office with the mailing of “virtual tea bags” to national lawmakers.

“If last year is any measure, we think there will be a big crowd,” said John Putnam, an organizer of the Southwest Missouri Conservative Network, one of the sponsors of the rally.

Putnam cited crowd estimates of more than 1,000 at a similar event a year ago, and he said the tea party movement is growing, especially in the wake of passage of federal health care reform.

He made the remarks in a phone interview while he was attending a tea party rally Tuesday in Jefferson City. The rally at the Missouri Capitol featured conservative talk show host Michael Reagan, a son of former President Ronald Reagan.

Speakers at the Joplin rally will be Putnam; Carl Bearden, former Republican state representative and state director of Americans for Prosperity; Melanie Abrajano, executive director of the Missouri Club for Growth and former political director for the McCain-Palin campaign in Missouri; and Charlie Davis, a small-business owner in Joplin who is running as a Republican for the 128th District seat in the Missouri House.

The Joplin gathering is among tea party rallies being held across the country to coincide with Thursday’s deadline for filing federal income tax returns. Local groups supporting a change in the nation’s tax system will sponsor the event, which will start at noon at the Dr. Donald E. Clark Public Safety and Justice Center at 303 E. Third St. Those attending will march to the post office at First and Main streets to mail “virtual tea bags” to lawmakers in Washington, D.C.

“Last year, we tried to mail real tea bags, and they ended up in a warehouse somewhere because of security rules,” Putnam said. “This year, we’ve taken a picture of a tea bag and put it on a postcard.”

The cards will be mailed to U.S. Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., and the U.S. senators from Missouri, Republican Christopher “Kit” Bond and Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In addition to the Southwest Missouri Conservative Network, organizers of the event are Americans for Prosperity of Missouri, the Missouri Club for Growth, Missouri FairTax Inc., Newstalk KZRG radio station, and other residents who support the Missouri Jobs and Prosperity Act in the state Legislature. That measure is the state version of national “fair tax” legislation, which would eliminate the income tax and replace it with a national sales tax.

Putnam, who is chairman of the Jasper County Republican Central Committee, said groups involved in the rally believe in more personal responsibility, and “less government intervention, debt and taxes in our lives.”

He said the rally is open to other residents who are attempting to get their elected officials to be more accountable.

“We invite peaceful, like-minded citizens to come out with their signs and flags to demand redress of our grievances, and join up on a short march to the Joplin post office,” he said.

Putnam said the movement is growing because people are realizing that fewer people are paying income tax.

“The statistic I’ve read is that 48 percent of the American public is not paying income taxes,” he said. “So the productive, hardworking people who are carrying the load have decided they had better get involved.”

Check out this spin. Says the movement is growing because not enough people are paying income tax. Uh.... thought this was about LESS taxation?

It's an (un)FairTax ploy. Forget spending! We need more revenue!

Some people aren't pulling their weight for the war effort! They'll say. And critics will see it for what it is - incompassionate Republicanism of the Huckabee/McCain/Romney/Gingrich variety (neocon RINO liberals for big government).

Then it's so easy for the other side to label them 'uncompassionate teabaggers' and the like.

nayjevin
04-14-2010, 10:51 PM
Putnam, who is chairman of the Jasper County Republican Central Committee, said groups involved in the rally believe in more personal responsibility, and “less government intervention, debt and taxes in our lives.”

This I can handle.

erowe1
04-15-2010, 07:03 AM
Check out this spin. Says the movement is growing because not enough people are paying income tax. Uh.... thought this was about LESS taxation?


I agree with your basic point. But I think he's right about how having so many people paying no income tax is bad. Less people carrying the entire tax burden != less taxes. And it makes it that much harder to cut anything when half of the voting populace pays nothing in and still gets something out.

In my case, thanks to earned income credits, child credits, and the Obama stimulus, my wife and I are getting a refund that's way more than what we paid. It's essentially welfare.

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 07:35 AM
I agree with your basic point. But I think he's right about how having so many people paying no income tax is bad.

Good thoughts, but I think this misses the point, because income tax is immoral and unconstitutional in the first place. If no one payed income tax, that would be good. People could keep the fruits of their labor. This is very basic American stuff, but it's lost in the modern day among liberal Republicans who take over tea parties.


Less people carrying the entire tax burden != less taxes.

Nor is it equal to less revenue. But the tax burden should be ZERO while spending is minimal, and funded Constitutionally.


And it makes it that much harder to cut anything when half of the voting populace pays nothing in and still gets something out.

Cutting is not hard. It is just unwanted by the majority. You think Ron would find it difficult to cut spending? I highly doubt it. The empire costs billions of borrowed money a day, and it goes in the hands of whomever is awarded the gov contract.


In my case, thanks to earned income credits, child credits, and the Obama stimulus, my wife and I are getting a refund that's way more than what we paid. It's essentially welfare.

Redistribution, essentially. All that paperwork comes with a cost.

erowe1
04-15-2010, 07:41 AM
I agree with all that. But there's no incongruence between advocating zero taxation and also advocating one approach to taxation over another in the event that you don't get your way on having zero taxation.

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 07:47 AM
I agree with all that. But there's no incongruence between advocating zero taxation and also advocating one approach to taxation over another in the event that you don't get your way on having zero taxation.

I agree, to an extent. This makes sense:

http://www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/64

But this FairTax garbage will be 400 pages long and they'll try to convince us it's a flat tax.

Here's how a (sort of) FairTax bill would read:

Be it resolved:

Income tax rate is now 10%. It is entirely voluntary. Never can it be raised, for any reason. IRS is hereby abolished.

angelatc
04-15-2010, 07:49 AM
I agree with all that. But there's no incongruence between advocating zero taxation and also advocating one approach to taxation over another in the event that you don't get your way on having zero taxation.

Exactly. Ron Paul has said that he would support the Fair Tax if it came up for a vote because it's better than the system we have now.

I'm not not a fan of the Fair Tax either, but it's because of the prebate pacifier they stick in there.

angelatc
04-15-2010, 07:51 AM
Here's how a (sort of) FairTax bill would read:

Be it resolved:

Income tax rate is now 10%. It is entirely voluntary. Never can it be raised, for any reason. IRS is hereby abolished.

Maybe this should be in philosophy, because that's not going to happen.

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 08:04 AM
Exactly. Ron Paul has said that he would support the Fair Tax if it came up for a vote because it's better than the system we have now.

He'd support what most people understand the FairTax to be, I bet. But I doubt the bill resembles that when introduced.


I'm not not a fan of the Fair Tax either, but it's because of the prebate pacifier they stick in there.

QFT


Maybe this should be in philosophy, because that's not going to happen.

Stephonolovus would agree with you.

angelatc
04-15-2010, 08:10 AM
If you want it to happen, you're going to have to accept incremental ism. Talking about a plan to phase it out is far more palatable to voters, who are all literally scared to death of the IRS, with good reason.

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 08:15 AM
If you want it to happen, you're going to have to accept incremental ism.

I am? I didn't actually introduce a bill, you know that right?


Talking about a plan to phase it out is far more palatable to voters, who are all literally scared to death of the IRS, with good reason.

There's sound philosophical backing for such a statement, and there are those who disagree as well.

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 09:33 AM
Isn't this pretty clear?


"By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." -Ron Paul

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 09:41 AM
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=777



Taxation Is Robbery
By Frank Chodorov

THE Encyclopaedia Britannica defines taxation as "that part of the revenues of a state which is obtained by the compulsory dues and charges upon its subjects." That is about as concise and accurate as a definition can be; it leaves no room for argument as to what taxation is. In that statement of fact the word "compulsory" looms large, simply because of its ethical content. The quick reaction is to question the "right" of the State to this use of power. What sanction, in morals, does the State adduce for the taking of property? Is its exercise of sovereignty sufficient unto itself?

On this question of morality there are two positions, and never the twain will meet. Those who hold that political institutions stem from "the nature of man," thus enjoying vicarious divinity, or those who pronounce the State the keystone of social integrations, can find no quarrel with taxation per se; the State's taking of property is justified by its being or its beneficial office. On the other hand, those who hold to the primacy of the individual, whose very existence is his claim to inalienable rights, lean to the position that in the compulsory collection of dues and charges the State is merely exercising power, without regard to morals.

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 01:57 PM
Some of us “radical” (read: principled) libertarians are sometimes accused of refusing to compromise, refusing to accept incremental movements toward liberty; that we would only accept a magical “push of the button”. Of course, this is not true. I want the income tax abolished, but I would view a reduction in the marginal tax rates as an unambiguous improvement by libertarian standards.

The problem lies in reforms that do not clearly and unambiguosly improve the situation, however minutely; but that might even make things worse, at least for some people. For example, moving to a “flat tax” of 20% (with no deductions at all) would be a good thing for me, and maybe even “overall” (whatever that means), but it would amount to a punitive tax increase on people making, say, $25K a year, who pay almost no income tax now. Such a reform would decrease rights violations for some, and increase it for others.

On Pushing the Button–the problem with magic (http://www.stephankinsella.com/2009/11/03/on-pushing-the-button-the-problem-with-magic/)
Stephan Kinsella

angelatc
04-15-2010, 03:03 PM
If we're discussing morality and libertarian philosophy, then maybe this thread should go there. Certainly from a pure ethical standpoint, the use of force is wrong and blah blah blah, but that's never been part of a politically winning platform. Not that I wouldn't support it, but it's always helpful to have a plan B.


YouTube - Ron Paul on Taxes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5lC4Z_T80)

nayjevin
04-15-2010, 03:45 PM
That's a good video. Thanks for posting it.

I gathered that Ron believes that what the FairTax people are focusing on are not the real issues.

What did you get from it?

And please don't try to play devil's advocate based upon your perception of what Boortz clones might say - just tell the truth.

easycougar
04-15-2010, 04:05 PM
LOL...interesting to see there is a Joplin story on the front page of RPFs considering it's my podunk home town. I actually attended this tea party today and the article is correct. The discussion was very heavy on implementing a fair tax, but there wasn't much discussion on CUTTING SPENDING. I would say there was about half as many people as last year. Nothing but McCain/Palin bumper stickers in the parking lot so I was out of place. I was hoping there would be some Libertarian or Ron Paul people there, but I didn't see any. It was really disappointing.

phill4paul
04-15-2010, 04:09 PM
Plain ans simple. We are in debt. They can either tax more than the population can bear and in doing so destroy the ability for jobs and additional tax revenue.

Or they can cut services and spending.

There is NO middle ground. The time for moderates is over. Time for the middle to choose a side.