OathKeepers Chicken Out

[pcosmar]

Disgusting.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/04/13/oath-keepers-withdraws-from-virginia-open-carry-rally/

And read the comments. I am not the only one displeased.

perhaps the July4Patriot can get something real going when he gets back on his feet.
:mad:

[Danke]

The mission of Oath Keepers is not to confront the government. Instead, our mission is to reach out to people within government – to police, military, firefighters and first responders – to teach them about their obligations under the oath they took to defend the Constitution, to increase their knowledge of the Constitution, and to inspire them to defend it by refusing to obey unconstitutional, unlawful orders.

:rolleyes:

Therefore... confront government.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I have quite a bit of respect for this man...


Comment by Elias Alias — April 13, 2010 @ 5:13 pm

With only one exception at this point in the comment chain below this article, I’m impressed to observe that some who have registered here at our website have come in under misconceptions about what Oath Keepers is, and what our mission is.

If one has come here thinking that Oath Keepers was created to walk point in an assault on the criminals in D.C. and on Wall Street, it follows logically that one would post comments classifying Oath Keepers as “cowards” or as “the NRA of the Patriot Movement”. Those among us who would fling such arrows at Oath Keepers are excusable for many reasons, but I’m going to give you one reason why I’m willing to overlook your accusations and condemnations –

You do not know what the Board of Directors at Oath Keepers knows. Our Board consists of career law enforcement and military people. We have sources. We are given information, Intel if you will, which is not found on email chains or in private messages among the membership. One might consider that before one calls this Board and the Oath Keepers organization “cowards”. Calling us that only reveals one’s ignorance and shallowmindedness – and, in some cases, hidden motives.

Any one is free to vent one’s angst if that suits one, but I assure you that Oath Keepers shall remain undeterred in our resolve on this matter. Insults and accusations come from those who have no clue about the details which we considered in arriving at our decision. Remember always – when this event was strictly under the control of Daniel Almond, Oath Keepers was on board. Had Oath Keepers National been invited to manage the event for Daniel Almond, the problems which caused us to cancel would not have occurred. I forgive all of you who would insult me for my vote on this decision. You just don’t know what we know.

I would also like to point out that this decision is not Stewart Rhodes’ decision – it is the decision of the Oath Keepers Board of Directors.

I would like to point you to the picture above in which I’m seen wearing my .357 on my hip while administering an Oath Keepers ceremony on the steps of the Montana state capitol building at Helena, Montana, this past March 27, 2010. I gave that ceremony at an open-carry 2nd Amendment rally at which many wore openly their pistols and carried or slung long barrel guns. I am an honorably-discharged U.S. Marine who fought in Vietnam. I’m on the Board of this nation’s premiere grassroots Constitution-supporting organization and I’m directly in the crosshairs of Federal investigations for standing up and speaking out. I also publish the monthly national “The Oath Keeper” newspaper which is distributed in fifty states. And for all that, I now see that I must also suffer being called “coward” by people here who have no way on earth of receiving the intelligence reports I have. So be it. I’m offering my life for the Oath Keepers mission, fearlessly. I think I know what I’m doing, and what I’m doing is supporting the Oath Keepers mission in the face of intense personal risk.

Some here do not know what is involved, and I’ll tell you this – some of what was involved in the Board’s decision shall never be revealed. That damned government which you want to put back in its box has more tricks up its sleeve than activists in the Patriot movement ever thought of. Leadership carries a solemn gravity which does not always burden the general membership. I know some things relative to this matter which not one damn post-maker on this thread thus far could possibly know, and I’m not talking about the weather.

I’d appreciate a little support. Thank you for reading.

Salute!
Elias

[Anti Federalist]

:rolleyes:

Therefore... confront government.

That.

*sigh*

[pcosmar]

I have quite a bit of respect for this man...

And what of the founding member Charles Dyer?

I have been watching, Hopeful but cautious.
I am disappointed with what I see, because basically I have seen empty talk.

This is more of that.
It was a good idea. Too bad the founder was set up and abandoned.
In case you missed it.
Charles Dyer Found Not Guilty.

[ronpaulhawaii]

And what of the founding member Charles Dyer?

I have been watching, Hopeful but cautious.
I am disappointed with what I see, because basically I have seen empty talk.

This is more of that.
It was a good idea. Too bad the founder was set up and abandoned.
In case you missed it.
Charles Dyer Found Not Guilty.

I haven't been watching closely. Did OK throw Charles under the bus? Or just not comment publicly? Or...?

I give more leeway to new orgs, but understand your point

[roho76]

I have quite a bit of respect for this man...

Comment by Elias Alias — April 13, 2010 @ 5:13 pm

With only one exception at this point in the comment chain below this article, I’m impressed to observe that some who have registered here at our website have come in under misconceptions about what Oath Keepers is, and what our mission is.

If one has come here thinking that Oath Keepers was created to walk point in an assault on the criminals in D.C. and on Wall Street, it follows logically that one would post comments classifying Oath Keepers as “cowards” or as “the NRA of the Patriot Movement”. Those among us who would fling such arrows at Oath Keepers are excusable for many reasons, but I’m going to give you one reason why I’m willing to overlook your accusations and condemnations –

You do not know what the Board of Directors at Oath Keepers knows. Our Board consists of career law enforcement and military people. We have sources. We are given information, Intel if you will, which is not found on email chains or in private messages among the membership. One might consider that before one calls this Board and the Oath Keepers organization “cowards”. Calling us that only reveals one’s ignorance and shallowmindedness – and, in some cases, hidden motives.

Any one is free to vent one’s angst if that suits one, but I assure you that Oath Keepers shall remain undeterred in our resolve on this matter. Insults and accusations come from those who have no clue about the details which we considered in arriving at our decision. Remember always – when this event was strictly under the control of Daniel Almond, Oath Keepers was on board. Had Oath Keepers National been invited to manage the event for Daniel Almond, the problems which caused us to cancel would not have occurred. I forgive all of you who would insult me for my vote on this decision. You just don’t know what we know.

I would also like to point out that this decision is not Stewart Rhodes’ decision – it is the decision of the Oath Keepers Board of Directors.

I would like to point you to the picture above in which I’m seen wearing my .357 on my hip while administering an Oath Keepers ceremony on the steps of the Montana state capitol building at Helena, Montana, this past March 27, 2010. I gave that ceremony at an open-carry 2nd Amendment rally at which many wore openly their pistols and carried or slung long barrel guns. I am an honorably-discharged U.S. Marine who fought in Vietnam. I’m on the Board of this nation’s premiere grassroots Constitution-supporting organization and I’m directly in the crosshairs of Federal investigations for standing up and speaking out. I also publish the monthly national “The Oath Keeper” newspaper which is distributed in fifty states. And for all that, I now see that I must also suffer being called “coward” by people here who have no way on earth of receiving the intelligence reports I have. So be it. I’m offering my life for the Oath Keepers mission, fearlessly. I think I know what I’m doing, and what I’m doing is supporting the Oath Keepers mission in the face of intense personal risk.

Some here do not know what is involved, and I’ll tell you this – some of what was involved in the Board’s decision shall never be revealed. That damned government which you want to put back in its box has more tricks up its sleeve than activists in the Patriot movement ever thought of. Leadership carries a solemn gravity which does not always burden the general membership. I know some things relative to this matter which not one damn post-maker on this thread thus far could possibly know, and I’m not talking about the weather.

I’d appreciate a little support. Thank you for reading.

Salute!
Elias


So they are laying down to the government? Did the government threaten them?

"We have intelligence. We are law enforcement and we have information and you don't. Trust us."
Where have I heard this before.

I've am left in the dark by my government, and would prefer to not be left in the dark by them too. This is ridiculous. Fuck'em in this day and age if you don't face your fear then your a coward. Plain and simple.

[pcosmar]

I haven't been watching closely. Did OK throw Charles under the bus? Or just not comment publicly? Or...?

I give more leeway to new orgs, but understand your point

They scrubbed web pages and have publicly denied any affiliation.
I thought that was rude.
http://freedomfighterradio.net/?p=13796
Trust is getting very hard to come by. Many patriots have been burned.

This does not help. :(

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

The Board of Directors of Oath Keepers, Inc. has decided

LOL.

<-- Advocate of a private Liberty Club to eliminate institutionalized grass root solutions and enable private grass root markets.

[BlackTerrel]

Disgusting.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/04/13/oath-keepers-withdraws-from-virginia-open-carry-rally/

And read the comments. I am not the only one displeased.

Yeah it's really easy for people on the internet to be "disgusted" and "displeased" from behind their computers.

[MsDoodahs]

<-- Advocate of a private Liberty Club to eliminate institutionalized grass root solutions and enable private grass root markets.

:)

[Pericles]

That.

*sigh*

This - It's like they are trying to make me wonder why I joined.:mad:

[pcosmar]

Yeah it's really easy for people on the internet to be "disgusted" and "displeased" from behind their computers.

No. It is not. It is quite saddening.
I too had hopes. It was following another related news story that led me to this.

it is not "easy" at all.

[nobody's_hero]

Get your hero up a tree.

Throw rocks at him.

Get him down again.

[Anti Federalist]

This - It's like they are trying to make me wonder why I joined.:mad:

Honestly...shit, I'm not going to say I'm privy to all the inside maneuvering that may be going on but, FFS, the whole stated purpose is a direct confrontation to government.

[Cowlesy]

Is this the 2nd Amendment rally that ends up at the Lincoln Memorial steps with Glenn Beck speaking?

[pcosmar]

Remember,

YouTube - In defense of freedom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1HAvaWnqg&)

[nobody's_hero]

Honestly...shit, I'm not going to say I'm privy to all the inside maneuvering that may be going on but, FFS, the whole stated purpose is a direct confrontation to government.

Sorry, but not obeying orders is not confrontational. It more closely resembles passive resistance, or civil disobedience, if you will. Government may come down on you hard, sure, but that's why Oathkeepers has to keep growing and reaching out.

Example:

Uncle Sam may give the orders to fire into a crowd of babies, but if no one obeys that order and just walks away, Uncle Sam ends up looking like a dumbass who's just lost all his friends.

That's been Oathkeepers' stated purpose from the beginning.

[catdd]

Is this the 2nd Amendment rally that ends up at the Lincoln Memorial steps with Glenn Beck speaking?

;)

[Pericles]

Honestly...shit, I'm not going to say I'm privy to all the inside maneuvering that may be going on but, FFS, the whole stated purpose is a direct confrontation to government.

As I understand it, the BoD is afraid that having OK labeled as a "militia" group or such would lead it to being labeled a "prohibited organization" that members of the Armed Forces can not join (security clearance), and are backing out of the commitment to speak at the event.

Which then goes to the question of what will the organization do when members get illegal orders. "We are just going to stand down." ignores the reality of disobeying an order - is it better to fight it out legally on the "prohibited organization" front (should it come to that, or wait until "crunch time" and hope the organization makes a stand.

In my mind it is an issue of credible deterrence - who believes those 10 orders won't be obeyed?

[Cowlesy]

;)

Well not sure what your wink-face implies, but that 2A rally that people were going to carry openly within D.C. Metro just, as Admiral Ackbar would say:

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/its_a_trap.jpg

What better place to snag a ton of pro-gun people than using some byzantine rule about D.C. Metro that no one knows about. All chest-thumping aside, that whole event is just shady to me.

[pcosmar]

Is this the 2nd Amendment rally that ends up at the Lincoln Memorial steps with Glenn Beck speaking?



What better place to snag a ton of pro-gun people than using some byzantine rule about D.C. Metro that no one knows about. All chest-thumping aside, that whole event is just shady to me.


Nope,

Oath Keepers withdraws from Virginia Open Carry Rally

:(

[Anti Federalist]

As I understand it, the BoD is afraid that having OK labeled as a "militia" group or such would lead it to being labeled a "prohibited organization" that members of the Armed Forces can not join (security clearance), and are backing out of the commitment to speak at the event.

Which then goes to the question of what will the organization do when members get illegal orders. "We are just going to stand down." ignores the reality of disobeying an order - is it better to fight it out legally on the "prohibited organization" front (should it come to that, or wait until "crunch time" and hope the organization makes a stand.

In my mind it is an issue of credible deterrence - who believes those 10 orders won't be obeyed?

That was the vibe I was getting as well, although I didn't see it as being directly related to security clearances, but that makes sense.

Course it doesn't address the core issue at all, that being, when faced with a confrontation, of the mildest sort, they stood down.

I have no doubt that vast majority of the system's enforcers will, with gusto, vigor and smile on their faces, carry out those ten orders.

That's why all this talk of lying down with lions and singing Kumbaya is just that, meaningless talk.

[Cowlesy]

Nope,

Oath Keepers withdraws from Virginia Open Carry Rally

:(

I see now. I guess the 2A rally in D.C. is not Open Carry, which is why OK is participating in it (still).

[Anti Federalist]

Nope,

Oath Keepers withdraws from Virginia Open Carry Rally

:(

Where open carry is perfectly legal.

[Danke]

Where open carry is perfectly legal.

Open carrying is legal lawful everywhere. But it does take "confronting" government to assert that right.

[Anti Federalist]

Sorry, but not obeying orders is not confrontational.

The oaths being taken and the ten orders that will not be followed are most certainly confrontational.

You are saying, ahead of the fact, that you fully intend to disobey, (and I agree) what are considered to be "unlawful orders" but will be regarded as valid orders by the issuing authorities.

They will then view that oath as prima facie evidence that you have violated the UCMJ Article 134 - Conduct Prejudicial to Good Order and Discipline at the very least.

That's certainly a confrontation.

So is this...and what do you do?

YouTube - Michael Madsen in Wargames (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReJ3RltihME)

[Anti Federalist]

Open carrying is legal lawful everywhere. But it does take "confronting" government to assert that right.

Very very true.

[amy31416]

Remember,

YouTube - In defense of freedom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1HAvaWnqg&)

Inspirational guy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him. Hopefully he'll be able to speak for himself again soon.

So, let's keep tabs...the Hutaree were betrayed by the Michigan Militia, and now the Oathkeepers have turned their backs on J4P?

Mmmkay.

[bunklocoempire]

“Chicken out” is a bit much.

Open carry and rally/march if one wants to. And perhaps “promises (?)” to attend shouldn’t have been made.

BUT, as I understand it:

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms was not emphasized by our founders as a “last resort” as so many McCain voters too scared to pull a different ballot lever like to believe –or pretend. The RKBA was not emphasized by our founders as an easily spun confrontational “show of force”, but as a back bone to do the right thing –peacefully and without confrontation.

In a voting situation, I don’t have to show someone (government) my gun to persuade them, nor would I want to.

I tend to believe a good number of “lesser of two evils” voters have signed up with the Oath Keepers and those are the majority of negative posters. I was somewhat surprised at the number of McCain voters who were bringing up the Oath Keepers the past year.


I only want to put the obama administration on notice that there are those of us who BELIEVE in the oath we took to defend the US Constitution and the country !


We are way past time to quit this non-confrontational BS and let the lefties know we’re not taking their crap anymore.


How much did Obama pay you to back out of this event like a coward?


IMO, an open carry rally or march would’ve (or would make) a huge difference if it was carried out under a Republican administration. The spin wouldn’t know what to do.

As it is, the spin is salivating for an event like this under the current administration, especially with all the hysteria and tools set up by the previous administration.

As it is now, the timing plays right into the ol’ Repubs vs. Dems smoke & mirrors thing.

I recommend zigging when government and media expect us to zag.

Strategy.

Bunkloco

[VegasPatriot]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

[constituent]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

"if only you knew what we know..."

"but that you're so dangerously uninformed..."

"we have inside information..."

heard it all before.

Glad I'm totally apathetic, I almost feel bad for all the fools who get butt hurt every time this sort of thing goes down.

[pcosmar]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

Take off your blinders.
I had hopes for the oathkeepers from the beginning. I think it was a great idea.
I have been watching,,hopeful. Some good talk, but the actions suck.

Show me examples of them standing up. SHOW ME.
Show me Officers refusing orders. Calling out the murders of civilians. Ain't happened.
Show me police arresting police. Stopping abuse. Ain't happening.
Show me something. How about standing up for one of their own?
July4Patriot. ??????? Where are they?

And now this shit.
:mad:

[ronpaulhawaii]

Take off your blinders.
I had hopes for the oathkeepers from the beginning. I think it was a great idea.
I have been watching,,hopeful. Some good talk, but the actions suck.

I'm not so quick to judge, and knowing most of the BoD, I trust they they mean well, despite any missteps/growing pains. Yes, they are moving very carefully and slowly


Show me examples of them standing up. SHOW ME.

They are not even a year old... There are plenty of videos of them speaking out.


Show me Officers refusing orders.
I met this guy in Vegas


http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09031209.html...Armbruster, a law enforcement veteran of 17 years, says he was suspended for five days without pay and a disciplinary letter was put in his file because he refused to threaten the members with arrest. He says the group was not acting disorderly, and was within their free speech rights to spread their message on the public campus.


and this guy

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2009/10/29/news/local_news/iq_32053198.txt IRON County Sheriff Mark Gower is tired of being pushed around by prairie dogs. For too long, the foraging rodents have thrown their federally-protected weight around the steppes of southern Utah.

"This is a fight I'm going to step up and take. This investigation of prairie dogs has gone on long enough," Gower says.

Gower has issues with the Endangered Species Act. He thinks it's unconstitutional because it infringes on the rights on private landowners. Gower promises to take a fine or even jail time instead of enforcing the federal law.



Calling out the murders of civilians. Ain't happened.

I've heard them multiple times referencing Ruby Ridge and Waco


Show me police arresting police. Stopping abuse. Ain't happening.

I hear you, we seem to have different expectations for a new org, but I look forward to more stopping of abuse as well.


Show me something. How about standing up for one of their own?
July4Patriot. ??????? Where are they?

I'll wait to hear from Charles...


And now this shit.
:mad:

I understand your frustration, however, knowing Elias and others on the BoD, I find any charges of cowardice or kowtowing to Government to be over the top

[pcosmar]

I understand your frustration, however, knowing Elias and others on the BoD, I find any charges of cowardice or kowtowing to Government to be over the top

It is not frustration as much as disappointment. And it is not just me (I am not even relevant) But in reading around "other" places. Hundreds and perhaps thousands feel this way.
It was obvious from those that posted on their site.
From those that are dropping their membership.Those that were looking but now won't join.

It is a bad move.
They lost many over Charles Dyer.
They have just shot their credibility in the foot.
:(

[Anti Federalist]

I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.


"Dear Ron Paul Forums" thread in 3...2...1...

[Anti Federalist]

Alex Jones covering this right now

[pcosmar]

knowing Elias and others on the BoD,
I don't know them.
I know me. I can not even pick up a firearm. I certainly can't march with one.
I have a constant pain in my lower back from the knee of a Police Officer, inflicted during an arrest on my own land. I had committed no crime. offered NO resistance.
My wife's gun was stolen, and I was charged. (this was not the reason they were there initially)
It cost me several thousands of dollars to attempt to defend myself. Wiped out my savings.
I plead guilty to attempted possession to save my farm.

Now, men who can stand are backing down because the SPLC is saying mean things about them?

Yes, I am disappointed. :(

[ronpaulhawaii]

It is not frustration as much as disappointment. And it is not just me (I am not even relevant) But in reading around "other" places. Hundreds and perhaps thousands feel this way.
It was obvious from those that posted on their site.
From those that are dropping their membership.Those that were looking but now won't join.

It is a bad move.
They lost many over Charles Dyer.
They have just shot their credibility in the foot.
:(

I trust you know that I have a lot of respect for your voice and am more speaking to general concerns than you specifically

Turning one person's idea into many people's organization is rarely a pretty sight.

Look at CfL, or even RPFs...

About Charles, I am curious. I am not ruling out that the scrub was at his own request...

Again, not excusing any actions I know little background of, but must speak up regarding the honor of those I believe honorable.

It should, also be noted that the 6% of haters of the r3VOLution are very loud and sometimes seem like thousands... And that the neo-con haters will be seizing this op to try to shrink OK...

I'll still give em time...

[VegasPatriot]

"Dear Ron Paul Forums" thread in 3...2...1...
Fuck you

[Pericles]

“Given the same amount of intelligence, timidity will do a thousand times more damage than audacity”
- Karl von Clausewitz

[Spike]

I'm glad the OK are led by THINKING men. They are not cowards at all, and anyone who thinks so is either ignorant, or couldn't care less about winning. If you want to win, and beat the tyrants, you have to do everything in your power to maintain your image, and not do any regrettable actions. This is a time to watch your step, and examine the battlefield.

The enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution.
- Sun Tzu

[Anti Federalist]

Fuck you

Oh, fuck you back.

Can't take a little ribbing, especially when it hits home?

Your rant reeks of "This forums sucks, what happened here, I'm leaving", that has been posted before, just because you're butthurt since somebody has a beef with a very well connected (to here) organization.


VegasPatriot - I get so sick of seeing people on this forum talk shit about things they know nothing (or very little) about. I was going to write in detail about some of the concerns stated in this thread... but on second thought, fuck it. Just keep pissing on the ones trying to fight the good fight and see where that gets you. It was every now and then... but now it's daily that I wonder if I'm just wasting my time (and money) on this forum.

You seem to think the charges unfair and unreasonable that Pete brought forward. Perhaps they are, I'm withholding judgment until more details come out.

You alluded to the fact that you have information that could clear this mess up, but failed to post it because your feelings got hurt or something.

So, if you do have some information that could clear up the OP's complaints, post them, everybody washes their hands and gets back to work.

If you can't do it publicly, send it in a PM.

If you can't do it all, that probably you means you don't know shit about the situation, or any more than any of us know and are concerned about.

[phill4paul]

This - It's like they are trying to make me wonder why I joined.:mad:

Was planning to join this week. No biggie. I'm a firm believer in decentralization.

I am an Oathkeeper. Don't need no stinking patches.

[Danke]

Don't need no stinking patches.

Patches R cool.

[Pericles]

I'm glad the OK are led by THINKING men. They are not cowards at all, and anyone who thinks so is either ignorant, or couldn't care less about winning. If you want to win, and beat the tyrants, you have to do everything in your power to maintain your image, and not do any regrettable actions. This is a time to watch your step, and examine the battlefield.

The enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution.
- Sun Tzu

The best time to think is before making a decision. The concern (speaking only for myself) is that the decision to go or not to go - either is fine - but deciding to go and then reversing that decision and now not to go, does not reflect well.

[pcosmar]

I will note here that I called no one a coward. It is not in my posts.
I posted this after reading about this decision on several sites (blogs/news/forums) and then going to the OK site to confirm.

The accusation of cowardice was made by a member there. Not by me.
I only expressed my disappointment.

btw, The 2nd Amendment and abuse by the system was the catalyst of my awakening.
I do take it seriously.

[InterestedParticipant]

Oathkeepers was established to identify and register possible internal opposition. Glad to see that they are finally showing their hand, after duping many, unfortunately.

[LibertyEagle]

Oathkeepers was established to identify and register possible internal opposition. Glad to see that they are finally showing their hand, after duping many, unfortunately.

Do you have any concrete proof of your claim about Oathkeepers? If so, show it.

[InterestedParticipant]

Oh, so very nice to speak with you again, LE.

How about....I'll show you mine if you show me yours? I mean, you obviously have concrete proof that Oathkeepers is something else, do you not? Otherwise, you would have not laid down such a challenge.

[JoshLowry]

Please keep it civil folks. The fuck you's are not necessary.

IP don't be a smart ass.

[InterestedParticipant]

This group continues to fall for every stupid trick in the book. Does no one here read any history? Does anyone understand how the game is played and the masses continually duped. Or am I just supposed to stand-at-attention and salute anytime someone slaps the patriot symbol on to an organization and says that it's for "liberty"?

[amy31416]

This group continues to fall for every stupid trick in the book. Does no one here read any history? Does anyone understand how the game is played and the masses continually duped. Or am I just supposed to stand-at-attention and salute anytime someone slaps the patriot symbol on to an organization and says that it's for "liberty"?

You're what, approximately 12 years old and saying "nyah nyah nyah" now? Grow up.

[VegasPatriot]

Please keep it civil folks. The fuck you's are not necessary.

IP don't be a smart ass.
Look, I've been working on a huge rant of fu's so don't stop me now.:D



Oh, fuck you back.

Can't take a little ribbing, especially when it hits home?

Your rant reeks of "This forums sucks, what happened here, I'm leaving", that has been posted before, just because you're butthurt since somebody has a beef with a very well connected (to here) organization.
Butthurt? Where the hell you get that... oh wait, I just read what I wrote. Never mind.:o


You seem to think the charges unfair and unreasonable that Pete brought forward. Yes I do.


You alluded to the fact that you have information that could clear this mess up...

So, if you do have some information that could clear up the OP's complaints, post them, everybody washes their hands and gets back to work.

If you can't do it publicly, send it in a PM. Good idea, I'll PM you and pete... but there is some info I can't share right now, sorry.


If you can't do it all, that probably you means you don't know shit about the situation, or any more than any of us know and are concerned about.Oh, F.... errr, I mean... I'll let you decide.:)

[VegasPatriot]

Oathkeepers was established to identify and register possible internal opposition. Glad to see that they are finally showing their hand, after duping many, unfortunately.
LOL, you don't know how many times I've heard that... Look, we refer to OK membership as the tip of the iceberg. We don't want all active duty to join, we just need them to listen to our message.

[VegasPatriot]

I will note here that I called no one a coward. It is not in my posts.
I posted this after reading about this decision on several sites (blogs/news/forums) and then going to the OK site to confirm.

The accusation of cowardice was made by a member there. Not by me.
I only expressed my disappointment.

btw, The 2nd Amendment and abuse by the system was the catalyst of my awakening.
I do take it seriously.
I have PM you and AF. I am on my way to dinner with Stewart, I will check back here in a few hours.

[Anti Federalist]

I have PM you and AF. I am on my way to dinner with Stewart, I will check back here in a few hours.

PM received.

Based on that information I'll adopt a stance of wary optimism.

[VegasPatriot]

Here is a few comments from the OK website that speaks to some of our concerns. There is a full out attempt to label OK as a hate group in order to prevent our mission.

[/URL][url]http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=69360 (http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=69360) Here is your reason right here. The DOD just tightened the rules on which groups service members can associate with. Do you want to be next? Comment by Alan Jay Stang Jr — April 14, 2010
As a member of the National Board of Directors I not only encourage the decision to withdraw from the march but also look to the future of our organization and its viability as a foe to those that want to dismantle this Republic. I served for 20 years active duty and I’m still doing my best to protect and defend the liberties afforded us by our creator.
Without a doubt I trust my fellow brothers and sisters on the BOD. Our intelligence is sound and discussed at length. We on the board are not a group of yes men and women. We make our decisions based on facts and how such information will affect the Oath Keepers as a whole. The majority of us in this organization are in for the long haul. The 2nd amendment is not the only issue the current administration is trying to overstep their bounds. The entire Constitution and Bill of Rights are in jeopardy.

This struggle to maintain the Constitution in its original form is a battle that must be won with the support of our Military and Law enforcement members. So a decision to remove Oath Keepers from a potentially embarrassing or much worse situation is the wise thing to do.

The Oath Keepers mission has not changed although the enemies of the Republic would love nothing more than for us to implode.

I stand with Stewart Rhodes and all the members of the BOD.
One of the first things I learned in survival school was the enemy need only divide and conquer to win.

For The Republic,
Robert Gomez
Oklahoma Chapter President
Comment by Robert Gomez, MSgt, USAF (Ret)
Give me a break !… Does anyone here that’s NOT a member of the Oath Keepers Board of Directors know everything about this situation that the Board of Directors knows?
I didn’t THINK so…

So… Where, exactly, do you get off second-guessing their decision?
If you don’t know all the facts, then you’re pretty much just talking out of your ass, eh?

I trust the leadership of Oath Keepers to make the right decisions for Oath Keepers, as an organization.

If those decisions don’t happen to line up with your pet “sacred cow”…
Too damn bad !

We Oath Keepers are in this thing for the long haul. If you can’t get with the program (the REAL, stated, Oath Keepers program… Not the fantasy one you’ve locked onto.)…

Then, please…
Shut the hell up and let us do what we do… Reach, Teach, and Inspire oath takers to become Oath Keepers !

If you don’t wanna help us do that, then go on and play your sillyass games somewhere else !

We’ve got serious business to take of. If you don’t agree with the decisions being made…

Get over it…
And get the hell out of the way.
I, for one, am tired of the whining.

Eddie Gilbert
USMC – 1970-1978
Peace Officer – 1997-present
Comment by Eddie Gilbert
I am not in a leadership role with OK’s nor am I privy to the information the board has which led to this decision however I do support the decision 100% for the following reasons.

1. I am a long time political activist and an organizer of grass roots organizations similar to OK’s and I have seen with my own eyes how they are systematically attacked, infiltrated, divided, and finally destroyed. The play book for doing this was written a long time ago. Believe me when I say that the play book is being used against OK’s. Tricks and traps are waiting to be sprung. I suggest anyone who doubts that do some research into Cointelpro, Operation Mockingbird, and Operation Northwoods. Perhaps even spend some time looking into “agent provocateurs” and how they operate check youtube and add “Canada” to your key word search.
To make a long story short one of the plays in the dirty trick playbook is to infiltrate the target organization and have your planted operative create an incident preferably on camera which makes the organization look as bad as possible to the public. The gullible public then turns against the organization and the organization withers and dies. Simple and effective tactic and used OFTEN.

The good news is that the way to prevent this from happening is to very clearly establish and strictly adhere to a non violent code of conduct for the organization and make a point of separating the organization from members, organizations, or statements, which run counter to that code of conduct. In that way agent provocateurs are left outside the organization for failure to adhere to the non-violent code of conduct.
In my organization we laid out the following plan for attending public events and rallies where provocateurs could be present. 1. Know who you are with and closely monitor any unknown attendees. 2. Have cameras manned by alert people distributed throughout your group to quickly document anything unusual that might happen. 3. Separate yourself and your group immediately from anyone acting out aggressively and get a camera on them. 4. Make it clear to any peace officers in the area that the aggressive person(s) are not part of your group and that the group does not endorse or condone what they are doing.

To be honest most people who attend rallies or events, especially for the first few times, are not well equipped for or even aware of the tactics that will be used against them. All of us should get educated on this BEFORE attending an event or at least be with someone who has experience. This is a different kind of battle here and the tactics are subtle and it is easy for a new member to fall into a trap like a media ambush and be led into saying something really stupid.
Keep in mind provocateurs do not have to be violent to do damage; they can use racism or lewd behavior to discredit the organization as well. Doing so in front of corporate media can do a lot of damage because believe me they will milk any incident they can for all it is worth. Remember this is not checkers we are playing here, it is chess and the opponent is a master, believe it!

Reason 2 I support this decision is that the stated purpose of OK’s is very clear and I strongly suspect is NOT compatible with statements made by someone or some group attending the Virginia event. I do not know what was said or who said it but as an organizer myself I would do the same thing under those circumstances.

This battle will be won or lost in the hearts and minds of the American people. OK’s are fighting organized propaganda campaigns by the SPLC and corporate media conglomerates not against an army. The way to win the hearts and minds of our fellow Americans is not by aggressive or confrontational posturing and grand standing but by simply refusing to follow unconstitutional orders, remaining resolute in that purpose, teaching others to honor their oath, and by being an example for all to see. It will be won by being true Oath Keepers!
Comment by Adam Citizen OathKeeper

[Promontorium]

It's a tough day in the forums when IP is at full throttle and comes off as a sideshow.

[Old Ducker]

This group continues to fall for every stupid trick in the book. Does no one here read any history? Does anyone understand how the game is played and the masses continually duped. Or am I just supposed to stand-at-attention and salute anytime someone slaps the patriot symbol on to an organization and says that it's for "liberty"?

My CIA sources inform me that RFP is COINTEL.

http://wwws.forummotion.com/chatter-f17/ron-paul-forums-is-cointel-t12.htm

:eek:

[libertarian4321]

Remember,

YouTube - In defense of freedom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1HAvaWnqg&)

I watched a couple of this guys videos.

Am I the only one who thinks he is one bad hair day away from grabbing a rifle and climbing a tower?

I'm not sure this is the kind of guy we want to be associated with.

[pcosmar]

I watched a couple of this guys videos.

Am I the only one who thinks he is one bad hair day away from grabbing a rifle and climbing a tower?

I'm not sure this is the kind of guy we want to be associated with.

You may not.
But these are the men standing between you and complete tyranny.

I don't think I would concern myself any more with those that are afraid of the opinion of the SPLC.
It has become obvious that the BBQ militias and political groups are more concerned with the opinion of TPTB than with the defense of liberty.

I'll throw my lot with those that are being jailed and ridiculed for speaking and standing up for the truth, rather than those that fold at the slightest resistance or threat.
:cool:

[libertarian4321]

You may not.
But these are the men standing between you and complete tyranny.

I don't think I would concern myself any more with those that are afraid of the opinion of the SPLC.
It has become obvious that the BBQ militias and political groups are more concerned with the opinion of TPTB than with the defense of liberty.

I'll throw my lot with those that are being jailed and ridiculed for speaking and standing up for the truth, rather than those that fold at the slightest resistance or threat.
:cool:

Lets be honest, he isn't standing between me and anything. He's a guy making tough sounding videos and running around in the woods playing paint ball.

I don't think we win by alienating the overwhelming majority of Americans. Guys like this look and sound mentally unstable and potentially dangerous even to me- and I'm an ex-Army Ron Paul lovin' libertarian gun nut. This guy will be downright scary and repellent to most Americans.

You won't change things by being a hard core 0.01% of the population...

[pcosmar]

Lets be honest, he isn't standing between me and anything. He's a guy making tough sounding videos and running around in the woods playing paint ball.

I don't think we win by alienating the overwhelming majority of Americans. Guys like this look and sound mentally unstable and potentially dangerous even to me- and I'm an ex-Army Ron Paul lovin' libertarian gun nut. This guy will be downright scary and repellent to most Americans.

You won't change things by being a hard core 0.01% of the population...

You aren't changing anything now.
I doubt you will. Though I to am have been and still will work on every peaceful option.
The only reason that you or I have any semblance of freedom is because of these men with guns. And I am not talking about the government military. I am talking about the armed citizens
Read this,
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-patriots?page=0,0

These are the people making policy. They are the ones that define what is or is not acceptable.
Have you read the MIAC report, or the one that came out of Virginia, Or the FBI pamphlets that were out a few years ago?
Ever go to a Cop Forum and read the threads.

Do you remember the witch hunts after the government blew up The Murrah building?

Get ready, They are already doing it again.
:mad:

[libertarian4321]

Read this,
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-patriots?page=0,0



The SPLC are extremists too. I don't see how showing that there are extremists on "the other side" makes extremists on "our side" any more palatable.

"The only reason that you or I have any semblance of freedom is because of these men with guns."

I fail to see how a few dozen guys running around in the woods playing Army and making Youtube videos is doing anything to keep me free.

The only reason we have any freedom is because there are still many people who stand up politically for freedom and against big government- not because some Yahoo is running around in the woods playing "militia" and talking tough on Youtube.

We need to win with rational arguments, not by showing ourselves to be unstable, dangerous radicals and frightening the citizenry. And every time we are associated with these extremist nuts, we lose the support of the people.

So I will continue to work politically, but you won't see me joining any "militia."

[pcosmar]

The SPLC are extremists too. I don't see how showing that there are extremists on "the other side" makes extremists on "our side" any more palatable.

But those people have the ear of, and share the agenda with TPTB.



"The only reason that you or I have any semblance of freedom is because of these men with guns."

I fail to see how a few dozen guys running around in the woods playing Army and making Youtube videos is doing anything to keep me free.
Few dozen? are you completely ignorant?
Try a couple hundred thousand. Not all are on videos. Not all wear camo and train regularly.
It is this armed population that holds back tyranny. They are our last line of defense. And they are our last line because of attitudes like yours.
They should be the first line, and should be supported by every community.




We need to win with rational arguments, not by showing ourselves to be unstable, dangerous radicals and frightening the citizenry. And every time we are associated with these extremist nuts, we lose the support of the people.

So I will continue to work politically, but you won't see me joining any "militia."

And while you do that your "representatives" will continue to sell you out to the globalists, as they have done for a hundred years.
And you will cheer as the defenders are jailed and killed.

[libertarian4321]

But those people have the ear of, and share the agenda with TPTB.



I don't come on these boards as much as I used to (the level of "crazy" seems to get worse all the time), so I'm not familiar with your level of paranoia- are you one of the ones who believes "TPTB" are only Dems (e.g. SPLC has the ear of "TPTB" now, but didn't have it when Bush was in office) or did you believe the Bush administration was "TPTB" (in which case the SPLC has only had "the ear of TPTB" for a short time). Or are you a full on CT paranoiac (Bilderbergers, Trilateral commission, CFR, international bankers, black helicopters, Illuminati- the whole 9 yards)?



Few dozen? are you completely ignorant?

No, I'm not.



Try a couple hundred thousand. Not all are on videos. Not all wear camo and train regularly.
It is this armed population that holds back tyranny. They are our last line of defense. And they are our last line because of attitudes like yours.
They should be the first line, and should be supported by every community.

I'm an armed citizen, but don't lump me in with the extremist wackos out there making threats and demanding violence. I'm not down with the Hutaree or the Tim McVey "militia" types who think it's a good idea to blow people up or start a violent revolt because they have a beef with the government. Very few Americans support that kind of extremism- and it hurts us every time one of these crazies does something violent and proclaims he's a Ron Paul supporter.

[pcosmar]

I'm an armed citizen, but don't lump me in with the extremist wackos out there making threats and demanding violence. I'm not down with the Hutaree or the Tim McVey "militia" types who think it's a good idea to blow people up or start a violent revolt because they have a beef with the government. Very few Americans support that kind of extremism- and it hurts us every time one of these crazies does something violent and proclaims he's a Ron Paul supporter.

Do you enjoy flaunting your ignorance.
First, Tim McVeigh was never militia. Tim McVeigh was a government soldier. He was run off by virtually ever group he tried to attach himself to.
But the propaganda has been effective. You are proof of that.

Secondly, The Hutaree . We have another media show for the ignorant masses.
There were NO illegal weapons
There was NO plan to overthrow anything
The only Bombs were made by the government provocateur
They were training as a local defense force
They were actively involved in the community and aiding local Law enforcement.
It seems that there only "crime" is being Christian believers.

Do you have any understanding of the purpose of the 2nd amendment?

It seems that to you and others anything other that passive and unquestioned compliance is "extreme".

[libertarian4321]

It seems that to you and others anything other that passive and unquestioned compliance is "extreme".

Apparently, to extremist hot heads like yourself, anything short initiating violence is "passive and compliant." Obviously, many of us disagree.

So you throw on your militia uniform and run around in the woods (hopefully, you'll limit your activity to playing militia and not do anything too crazy), and I'll work within the system, okay?

Just do the rest of us a favor, if they arrest you for plotting to blow up a building (or whatever), please don't give a shout out to Ron Paul as soon as you see a camera.

[pcosmar]

Apparently, to extremist hot heads like yourself, anything short initiating violence is "passive and compliant." Obviously, many of us disagree.

So you throw on your militia uniform and run around in the woods (hopefully, you'll limit your activity to playing militia and not do anything too crazy), and I'll work within the system, okay?

Just do the rest of us a favor, if they arrest you for plotting to blow up a building (or whatever), please don't give a shout out to Ron Paul as soon as you see a camera.

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE :mad:
I have never advocated initiation of violence, NEVER, and am getting damn tired of that libelous accusation.

Fucking trolls like you are often making that accusation when ever someone speaks of the Constitutional Militia.
You quote the talking points of the SPLC and wave Government Propaganda like a banner.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=239600
You are the problem with this country, and an impediment to correcting it.

[AuH20]

Apparently, to extremist hot heads like yourself, anything short initiating violence is "passive and compliant." Obviously, many of us disagree.

So you throw on your militia uniform and run around in the woods (hopefully, you'll limit your activity to playing militia and not do anything too crazy), and I'll work within the system, okay?

Just do the rest of us a favor, if they arrest you for plotting to blow up a building (or whatever), please don't give a shout out to Ron Paul as soon as you see a camera.

Work within the system? The system exists exactly to preserve the system and mitigate domestic unrest. That's why the DoJ doesn't prosecute unsavory politicians nor the criminal element rooted in our financial systems.

[JoshLowry]

I don't come on these boards as much as I used to (the level of "crazy" seems to get worse all the time), so I'm not familiar with your level of paranoia- are you one of the ones who believes "TPTB" are only Dems (e.g. SPLC has the ear of "TPTB" now, but didn't have it when Bush was in office) or did you believe the Bush administration was "TPTB" (in which case the SPLC has only had "the ear of TPTB" for a short time). Or are you a full on CT paranoiac (Bilderbergers, Trilateral commission, CFR, international bankers, black helicopters, Illuminati- the whole 9 yards)?


Wow, talk about a smear job. You sound like Hannity.

Extremist, black helicopters, paranoia, violent, and crazy. You got most of the keywords to belittle someone that loves liberty and small government. Don't forget racist next time.

[libertarian4321]

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE :mad:
I have never advocated initiation of violence, NEVER, and am getting damn tired of that libelous accusation.

Fucking trolls like you are often making that accusation when ever someone speaks of the Constitutional Militia.
You quote the talking points of the SPLC and wave Government Propaganda like a banner.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=239600
You are the problem with this country, and an impediment to correcting it.

Relax, I said "if" you get arrested for plotting to blow up a building, not "when." I intentionally wrote it that way just in case you weren't completely nuts.

I would like to know, however, if you define anything other than grabbing a weapon as "passive and compliant," just what are you advocating?

[libertarian4321]

Wow, talk about a smear job. You sound like Hannity.

Extremist, black helicopters, paranoia, violent, and crazy. You got most of the keywords to belittle someone that loves liberty and small government. Don't forget racist next time.

I love liberty and small government.

That does NOT mean I have to be a CT.

One does not need to believe everything Alex Jones says to be a libertarian.

[Danke]

Fucking trolls like you are often making that accusation when ever someone speaks of the Constitutional Militia.
You quote the talking points of the SPLC and wave Government Propaganda like a banner.



Beware of these Obama supporters: ProBlue33, newbitech, libertarian4321, Kade, Electronicmajji, SeanEdwards

He may have been on to something...

[libertarian4321]

He may have been on to something...

Or he may have just been an idiot who was upset because I wouldn't support a bad Republican candidate...

[Edit: REALLY bad Republican candidate]

[pcosmar]

Relax, I said "if" you get arrested for plotting to blow up a building, not "when." I intentionally wrote it that way just in case you weren't completely nuts.

I would like to know, however, if you define anything other than grabbing a weapon as "passive and compliant," just what are you advocating?

I do not own weapons. I do not train with the militia. I do support the Constitutional basis for the militia. I support self defense. I support community defense.
I do advocate the arming and training of local militia.

I also am continuing to support candidates and legislation in defense of the constitution.
I promote peaceful means, while at the same time recognizing the reality of of what is being done against those ends.
I am a realist. I do not expect to be successful. but I make the effort.
I dislike violence, but am intimately acquainted with it.
I do not advocate it, I do advocate being prepared for it.

[libertarian4321]

I do not own weapons. I do not train with the militia. I do support the Constitutional basis for the militia. I support self defense. I support community defense.
I do advocate the arming and training of local militia.

I also am continuing to support candidates and legislation in defense of the constitution.
I promote peaceful means, while at the same time recognizing the reality of of what is being done against those ends.
I am a realist. I do not expect to be successful. but I make the effort.
I dislike violence, but am intimately acquainted with it.
I do not advocate it, I do advocate being prepared for it.

Same here, except that I have weapons and don't advocate joining militias.

So what are we arguing about?

[purplechoe]

One does not need to believe everything Alex Jones says to be a libertarian.

How the hell do shit like this even manifests itself in minds of people I'll never understand... Were you born yesterday?

[InterestedParticipant]

My CIA sources inform me that RFP is COINTEL.

http://wwws.forummotion.com/chatter-f17/ron-paul-forums-is-cointel-t12.htm

:eek:
More like unwitting dupes. This thread proves it.

[Anti Federalist]

Wow, talk about a smear job. You sound like Hannity.

Extremist, black helicopters, paranoia, violent, and crazy. You got most of the keywords to belittle someone that loves liberty and small government. Don't forget racist next time.

That ^ +1

[cheapseats]

Well not sure what your wink-face implies, but that 2A rally that people were going to carry openly within D.C. Metro just, as Admiral Ackbar would say:

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/its_a_trap.jpg

What better place to snag a ton of pro-gun people than using some byzantine rule about D.C. Metro that no one knows about. All chest-thumping aside, that whole event is just shady to me.

Agreed, and announced as much on Twitter, for all the world AND MY UNCLE SAM'S TATOOD PARAMILITARY TO SEE. Since WHEN does Washington DC have blue uniformed dudes with entire "sleeves" of tattoos? I'm asking. It was my first time in Washington DC and I'm tellin' ya, THEY GOT 'EM NOW. I have seen them with mine own eyes.

There seems to be a studied unawareness that, well, let's see . . . how shall I put this? THE TEA PARTY HAS BEEN BOGARTED.

The New & Improved Tea Party EXPRESS, featuring so much of the Republican Old Guard as to include the John McCain suffix "Express" AND John McCain's former running Arm Candy Sarah Palin -- also full embrace by FOX NEWS, it bears mention -- was due to roll into Washington DC on the 15th. A weekday. The GUN Rally is FOUR STRATEGIC DAYS LATER? A weekday on the OTHER side of a weekend?

Puh-leez.

READY. TO. POUNCE.

[pcosmar]

Well the event went off without a hitch, and without the violence that their "intelligence" predicted.
In light of some new info I think I know who they were listening to.

He makes the accusation here.

YouTube - Mike Hollingsworth. Traitor to the patriot movement. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKzPytlGBt0)

btw.
J4P did not make this, other patriots did. J4P has tried to politely talk to this guy. (yes I was in the chat)
This guy is nothing but rude.
and is still talking shit.

[cheapseats]

Well the event went off without a hitch, and without the violence that their "intelligence" predicted.
[/url]

But the Oath Keepers stayed away. Others as well, no doubt.

If you don't drink, you won't get drunk.

[cheapseats]

In light of some new info I think I know who they were listening to.
[/url]

THERE IS ALWAYS A JUDAS.

That'd be one of the things I've come to say.

[Mach]

Disgusting.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/04/13/oath-keepers-withdraws-from-virginia-open-carry-rally/

And read the comments. I am not the only one displeased.

perhaps the July4Patriot can get something real going when he gets back on his feet.
:mad:

I read through all of those comments, one of the answers I got out of it all as far as why they didn't go as a group to the rally was that they didn't want to be legally labeled a militia type group, it's kinda like the black book thing in Las Vegas, once a group is put into the official "black book," military, law enforcement and other official people cannot legally join or continue to be a member of that group anymore, so, they are supposedly trying to continue to grow their "official" members.

The Comment.....

34. How many policemen and servicemen will we reach if we are suddenly a militia group?

You know that the DOD is briefing service members on militia groups, and policemen are receiving briefs on militia groups too. If OK becomes classified as a militia group, all access will be cut off, and a DOD order will go out forbidding membership in OK right next to the KKK. Does anyone here want that? No one can deny that chain of events.

We are able to talk to current serving military and police because we are NOT a militia group. Title 10 USC, section 311 and 312 defines the militia as those personnel not belonging to the active military and the national guard. If you want to be in a militia, which doesn’t even exist right now anyway, you can’t be a part of the active forces.

OK’s mission is completely different from SPI and WRSA. If OK is painted with the same brush, membership will be prohibited and any active serving personnel will be court martialed just like if they belonged to the KKK.

Stop, cool down and consider that strategic and tactical decisions that are necessary. The enemy is wise and skilled at taking us down. Don’t make it any easier.

Alan Jay Stang Jr
Comment by Alan Jay Stang Jr — April 13, 2010 @ 8:46 pm

[pcosmar]

They are NOT a militia. Nothing in their organization classes them as militia.

TOUGH

THe SPLC ans ADL have already decided it. They are classed with all other "right-wing racist hate groups"
Too late. Nothing they can do about it.
deal with or ignore. That is how it is.

Running away from it doesn't help.

[VegasPatriot]

I read through all of those comments, one of the answers I got out of it all as far as why they didn't go as a group to the rally was that they didn't want to be legally labeled a militia type group, it's kinda like the black book thing in Las Vegas, once a group is put into the official "black book," military, law enforcement and other official people cannot legally join or continue to be a member of that group anymore, so, they are supposedly trying to continue to grow their "official" members.

BINGO! Except we don't care if active duty joins or not. We just want to have open lines of communication so we can continue our mission of Reach, Teach and Inspire. Pretty simple concept but some just don't get it...





perhaps the July4Patriot can get something real going when he gets back on his feet.
:mad:

Are your eyes and ears still open? Care to hear an update concerning j4p? Have you talked with him recently? Stewart has... and just as I said in my PM to you and AF... Charles is all good with OK. Oh, and don't take my word for it, just keep your eyes and ears open... it may be awhile but Charles has said he will write up a statement apologizing to OK and expressing his continued support.

[pcosmar]

Are your eyes and ears still open? .

Always.
Yes, I have heard some. though not about the OK particularly.
Charles is quite humble. He does not even speak harshly of Hollingsworth, and hes attempted to be reconcilitory. Even in the face of unprovoked hostility.

I would not expect him to say anything against any other patriot or even an open enemy.

[VegasPatriot]

Always.
Yes, I have heard some. though not about the OK particularly.
Charles is quite humble. He does not even speak harshly of Hollingsworth, and hes attempted to be reconcilitory. Even in the face of unprovoked hostility.

I would not expect him to say anything against any other patriot or even an open enemy.
I agree with you that Hollingsworth is a POS, but I hope you are not implying that OK is anything other that a righteous patriotic organization.

[pcosmar]

I agree with you that Hollingsworth is a POS, but I hope you are not implying that OK is anything other that a righteous patriotic organization.

I never said or implied that.
I voiced my disappointment at their decision to withdraw support and backing of the 2nd amendment march.
I also visit other sites in the patriot movement.
Like it or not, they have lost a lot of credibility.
Whether that translates to effectiveness is yet to be seen.
Many are downright angry with the decision.

I watch things on a number of fronts.