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View Full Version : University of MD student brutally beaten by Police - CAUGHT ON TAPE




John Taylor
04-13-2010, 01:41 PM
Newly-released video (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/video-shows-university-maryland-student-beaten-county-police/story?id=10362033)showing police officers brutally beating a University of Maryland student is raising questions as to whether the officers lied in a sworn statement to cover up their actions. The video directly contradicts the officers' sworn statements after the events, and already, one officer has been stripped of his powers as the Prince George's County police chief promises a full investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/04/13/dnt.wjla.umd.student.beaten.wjla

Three officers who beat student John McKenna face suspension and termination.In the March 3 video, student John McKenna, 19, is seen skipping down a street, celebrating his school basketball team's win over Duke. He comes to a stop before two mounted police officers, and backs away from them. A second later, three officers in riot gear ram into the student and begin beating him with batons. The officers struck McKenna more than a dozen times, leaving him unconscious and bleeding in the street.

Photos show a large gash on McKenna's skull, held together with multiple stitches. They also show sizable cuts and bruises on his body.

Lawyer Calls Attack 'Police Brutality'
"This is police brutality, pure and simple," said Chris Griffiths, McKenna's lawyer. "Clearly, the charging document is a lie. As you can see from the tape, there is not a single fact in that document which is true."

The sworn statement of charges by the officers says that McKenna himself "struck those officers and their horses, causing minor injuries." The statement describes McKenna's injuries as minor, caused when he was "kicked by the horses." It also claims that McKenna was inciting a crowd.

The charges against McKenna have since been dropped.


Multiple Attacks on Campus After Game
Other students on campus said the attack on McKenna wasn't the only time that police beat students the night of the basketball game. One student told WJLA-TV that he witnessed at least five attacks, and McKenna's lawyer has a theory explaining why.

"I think what you had was a situation where they were going to pick a few people out of the crowd and make examples of them in front of the students," said Griffiths. "They took the extra step of covering up their misconduct by falsely charging."

BlackTerrel
04-13-2010, 01:51 PM
Holy hell. That is a very disturbing video.

Thank God it was caught on video.

fisharmor
04-13-2010, 01:51 PM
Ok, how about this:
three more posts generally exclaiming that this sucks,
two "fuck the police" posts,
one "it's not all cops" post,
one "maybe not but it seems to be every cop we hear about these days" posts,
two "it is all cops because they're covering for them" posts,
two more "fuck cops" posts...

...and meanwhile McKenna is a statistic.

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 01:52 PM
Holy hell. That is a very disturbing video.

Thank God it was caught on video.

You're not kidding, read the charging documents (http://static.wjla.com/documents/pgpdcharging041210x.pdf) then see if the description from the police matches what you just saw...

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 01:53 PM
Ok, how about this:
three more posts generally exclaiming that this sucks,
two "fuck the police" posts,
one "it's not all cops" post,
one "maybe not but it seems to be every cop we hear about these days" posts,
two "it is all cops because they're covering for them" posts,
two more "fuck cops" posts...

...and meanwhile McKenna is a statistic.

You're a little nihilistic aren't ya?

fisharmor
04-13-2010, 01:56 PM
We get kind of inundated with this, and all we get in reply is "but OATHKEEPERS!"
Not nihilistic, but beyond pissed.
I'm preemptively telling the apologists to shut the fuck up.
There is no excuse for this and at this point everyone wearing a uniform is guilty.

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 01:59 PM
We get kind of inundated with this, and all we get in reply is "but OATHKEEPERS!"
Not nihilistic, but beyond pissed.
I'm preemptively telling the apologists to shut the fuck up.
There is no excuse for this and at this point everyone wearing a uniform is guilty.

You're right, there were 10 other officers on the video who didn't do a damned thing to stop that. In fact, the cops ran on by in search of more people to beat with their night sticks.

Old Ducker
04-13-2010, 01:59 PM
This is actually getting some MSM attention, unlike most incidents of this type...

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 02:01 PM
This is actually getting some MSM attention, unlike most incidents of this type...

Only because there is a relatively clean tape of the incident, and because he lawyered up. Most times no tape comes out, and a "13 year decorated veteran of the force" testifies against some kid who possibly had drank a few beers... and a judge who knows the police smiles when he hears the protestations of the kid, then fines him a shit-ton and cracks a joke with the officer.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 02:02 PM
You're not kidding, read the charging documents (http://static.wjla.com/documents/pgpdcharging041210x.pdf) then see if the description from the police matches what you just saw...

As far as arrest #1 nothing matches up. In the case of #2 without video I am sure we should take the LE account as gospel.:rolleyes:

Bruno
04-13-2010, 02:04 PM
Just caught it on CNN

fisharmor
04-13-2010, 02:05 PM
This is actually getting some MSM attention, unlike most incidents of this type...

Give me a break.

This is the same police department that performed a no-knock raid on the mayor of Berwyn Heights and shot his dogs. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/07/mayor.warrant/)

Note that it's the same MSM reporting on that shining example of our boys in blue.

I'll give you one guess as to how that turned out in the end.

Bruno
04-13-2010, 02:06 PM
You're right, there were 10 other officers on the video who didn't do a damned thing to stop that. In fact, the cops ran on by in search of more people to beat with their night sticks.


almost like they've followed the pattern before... :mad:

saw the same thing with a video last year after a police chase. The guy was clearly down and out, but they all took their turns beating him, then each one walked away while the others jumped in to their their kicks and stick beating in on the guy.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 02:06 PM
More on the story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041204377.html

jkr
04-13-2010, 02:07 PM
JST REMEMBER:
THEY h8 u 4 YOUR FREEDOMS

silus
04-13-2010, 02:10 PM
What concerns me most is how many of these incidents occur that aren't videotaped.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 02:12 PM
From the WaPo story comments:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041204377_Comments.html


The Kid reaches for the bridle, you can see it. That's not good. If he causes the horse react, that puts people in danger. The police react quickly as they should. Everything is good up to that point. The beating was excessive. If they cops wanted to send a message to the rest of the civilians gathered there, I don’t think that was the best way to do it. They had him down, cuff him and be done with it. Let’s be clear about one thing, PG County has more than its share of violent behavior, from civilians and police. I would hate to be a cop in PC County. It takes a special kind of person to be a law officer there. I believe there is such an "us" against "them" mentality on both sides that it has bread these aggressive reactions. That kid got caught up, in decades of tension between a community with a high rate of violent crime and a police force that is hardened and raw from dealing with it. It looks like the police used excessive force in this case, and disturbingly tried to cover their butts in their report, and in doing so have shed light on what has become a largely dysfunctional community. Not to blanket every citizen or police office in PG County with a label of being dysfunctional but certainly there is enough history of not evolving as community to point to these kids of incidents as result of personal responsibility not being taken across the board over a long period of time

Fuck me I'm going to say it one more time:

WE ARE ALL CIVILIANS!!!

COPS DO NOT GET TO USE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MILITARY FORCES AND CIVILIANS!!!

COPS ARE JUST AS MUCH CIVILIANS AS ANY OF US.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 02:13 PM
The only way to end this is for communities to step up and form citizens revue boards.
No more Internal Affairs investigations!
These citizen revue boards should have the power to fire any officers found to have used excessive force AND bring criminal charges against them.
The police police the citizens and the citizens police the police. Checks and balances.

fisharmor
04-13-2010, 02:17 PM
The only way to end this is for communities to step up and form citizens revue boards.

Wrong. There is another better way to end this, and it's to get rid of the constabulary altogether.

We don't need them, we never did need them, and we never will need them. What they are doing in the video is their actual job definition. We hired them to do that. Period.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 02:21 PM
Wrong. There is another better way to end this, and it's to get rid of the constabulary altogether.

We don't need them, we never did need them, and we never will need them. What they are doing in the video is their actual job definition. We hired them to do that. Period.

Have to agree with that.

The history of paid government police in this country is sordid and long and rife with corruption.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Wrong. There is another better way to end this, and it's to get rid of the constabulary altogether.

We don't need them, we never did need them, and we never will need them. What they are doing in the video is their actual job definition. We hired them to do that. Period.

Hey, I'm behind you 100% on this.:D I was just positing what could actually be accomplished in the interim to stem police brutality.
In reality getting rid of the police departments are gonna be a hard sell. To many nanny-statists out there that feel a need for them till they call about a lurker and their dog gets shot.
In the meantime I see no reason why citizen revue boards couldn't at least make an officer think twice.
Just an ideas.

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 02:26 PM
US v THEM

Know who you are.
Know where you stand.

:(

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 02:28 PM
From the WaPo story comments:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041204377_Comments.html



Fuck me I'm going to say it one more time:

WE ARE ALL CIVILIANS!!!

COPS DO NOT GET TO USE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MILITARY FORCES AND CIVILIANS!!!

COPS ARE JUST AS MUCH CIVILIANS AS ANY OF US.


You hit the nail on the head. We are not the subjects of the police, we are fellow citizens UNDER THE LAW. It's high time police recognize that.

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 02:30 PM
Hey, I'm behind you 100% on this.:D I was just positing what could actually be accomplished in the interim to stem police brutality.
In reality getting rid of the police departments are gonna be a hard sell. To many nanny-statists out there that feel a need for them till they call about a lurker and their dog gets shot.
In the meantime I see no reason why citizen revue boards couldn't at least make an officer think twice.
Just an ideas.

Yeah, but you could use the purse strings to start paring them down... slowly but surely, institute hiring freezes for some departments, eliminate some divisions, force departments to focus on violent crime instead of petty things they can use to squeeze the people... gradually ween the people off them.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 02:36 PM
You hit the nail on the head. We are not the subjects of the police, we are fellow citizens UNDER THE LAW. It's high time police recognize that.

I can't say for sure of course, but I'd wager it was a cop that wrote that comment I quoted.

It is indicative of the militarized training they are receiving, that they now view themselves as occupiers with "hostiles" all around them.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 02:36 PM
Yeah, but you could use the purse strings to start paring them down... slowly but surely, institute hiring freezes for some departments, eliminate some divisions, force departments to focus on violent crime instead of petty things they can use to squeeze the people... gradually ween the people off them.

I'm game JT. Believe me they have never helped once in any instance I have encountered them in fact quite the opposite.
I believe the scenario you provided above could well play out given the current economic situation. However, I am of the belief that they will be the LAST on the list of cuts. Those in power need enforcers. Especially enforcers that can generate revenue.
However, I don't see how any town could object to a citizen revue board. Cops should not investigate cops.

ghostbear
04-13-2010, 02:36 PM
At least from what I could discern on the video, 'excessive force' doesn't even begin to describe the unprofessionalism of these jack booted thugs. Of course, I wasn't there so I can't make any concrete judgements, but even if the college student was in the wrong somehow (not the case from the video evidence), then simply cuffing him or otherwise acting PROFESSIONAL would have been sufficient I would think. Are a large majority of cops now complete COWARDS, that they have to beat an unarmed young college kid sensless like that? I USED to be completely supportive of LE, nowadays I am very circumspect indeed, seeing inexcusable criminal behavior like this. Are they so impressed by their own power that they see any citizen who so much as steps wrong as an extreme threat to their authority? Disgraceful. I have LE officers in my family, as well as having trained some privately- so don't think I am against peace officers just as a whole....

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 02:38 PM
I can't say for sure of course, but I'd wager it was a cop that wrote that comment I quoted.

It is indicative of the militarized training they are receiving, that they now view themselves as occupiers with "hostiles" all around them.

Fort Apache, the Bronx.;)

RedStripe
04-13-2010, 02:42 PM
"a few bad apples"

:rolleyes:

brandon
04-13-2010, 02:47 PM
fuck the police....

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Hey, I'm behind you 100% on this.:D I was just positing what could actually be accomplished in the interim to stem police brutality.
In reality getting rid of the police departments are gonna be a hard sell. To many nanny-statists out there that feel a need for them till they call about a lurker and their dog gets shot.
In the meantime I see no reason why citizen revue boards couldn't at least make an officer think twice.
Just an ideas.

We've got one in the little town I live in.

Had a RP person on the board for while who was my local gun dealer and my neighbor.

Too bad he was consistently over ruled by the two other cop lovers and soldier sniffers on the board. He got frustrated and quit last year.

I'd run for the position myself if I could be reliably in town for the monthly meetings.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 02:56 PM
We've got one in the little town I live in.

Had a RP person on the board for while who was my local gun dealer and my neighbor.

Too bad he was consistently over ruled by the two other cop lovers and soldier sniffers on the board. He got frustrated and quit last year.

I'd run for the position myself if I could be reliably in town for the monthly meetings.

And I suppose there is the rub. Citizens just don't "get it." Also, the majority of revue boards out there today really have no teeth. All they are allowed to do is make recommendations.
Ah, well, guess the only thing to do is stay pissed about it and keep spreading the word.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 02:59 PM
This story is old, but one of the worst I've ever seen.

Like the story in this thread, it's the same situation, innocent man beaten half to death (in this case, you can see the cops smash this man's face into the concrete and hear his teeth break) and had it not been for the the video showing up of what actually happened, this man would have got sent to prison.

Videotape shows man beaten by Denver Police

DENVER - The Denver District Attorney's office has dropped its case against a man who was facing three years in prison for assault, after 9Wants to Know obtained and showed prosecutors a videotape of the man's arrest.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=97466&provider=top

Video at site

catdd
04-13-2010, 03:19 PM
A lot of these cops are returning military vets.

John Taylor
04-13-2010, 03:26 PM
A lot of these cops are returning military vets.

And a lot of them aren't.

You don't see Adam Kokesh smashing people's teeth into curbs.

catdd
04-13-2010, 03:34 PM
And a lot of them aren't.

You don't see Adam Kokesh smashing people's teeth into curbs.

So friggin what if you don't? You see a lot of them right here that ARE!
And a lot more that didn't lift a finger to stop it.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 03:42 PM
This story is old, but one of the worst I've ever seen.

Like the story in this thread, it's the same situation, innocent man beaten half to death (in this case, you can see the cops smash this man's face into the concrete and hear his teeth break) and had it not been for the the video showing up of what actually happened, this man would have got sent to prison.

Videotape shows man beaten by Denver Police

DENVER - The Denver District Attorney's office has dropped its case against a man who was facing three years in prison for assault, after 9Wants to Know obtained and showed prosecutors a videotape of the man's arrest.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=97466&provider=top

Video at site

Again AF you have quite the nose for these articles. :mad:

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 03:44 PM
So friggin what if you don't? You see a lot of them right here that ARE!
And a lot more that didn't lift a finger to stop it. Don't you dare start defending these people.

I don't think he was defending them, IMHO. I just thought he was pointing out that there are just as many academy trained LE as vets.
I may be wrong.

catdd
04-13-2010, 03:47 PM
Well something is going on with the police force these days. I've never in my lifetime seen them acting with this kind of brutality.
I'm just saying that a lot of these guys returning are a few shy of a 6-pack and probably need psychiatric evaluations before being put on the force.
You know how many of those guys are suicidal? There is an insane number of suicides occurring in active duty and returning military personnel.

speciallyblend
04-13-2010, 03:50 PM
i have seen this video several times. the bottom line these cops should be fired and never allowed in any law enforcement or even a mall cop! these police officers should be sued as well as the department! these officers should be arrested charged and brought to court!!

anything less is BS!!! of course if they are found innocent then they would be allowed to work as law enforcement but if guilty they never should be allowed to near any law enforcement agency!!

this is just plain insanity. many people should be fired over this and i can promise you this isn't the first time just one of many caught on tape! this truly makes all police officers look extermely bad!!! face palm

speciallyblend
04-13-2010, 03:52 PM
Well something is going on with the police force these days. I've never in my lifetime seen them acting with this kind of brutality.
I'm just saying that a lot of these guys returning are a few shy of a 6-pack and probably need psychiatric evaluations before being put on the force.
You know how many of those guys are suicidal?

something is going on for sure. we have a friend in the family that served in iraq. we saw him one week and now he cannot be found!! people are losing it once they return. Many honestly cannot cope!!

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 03:56 PM
i have seen this video several times. the bottom line these cops should be fired and never allowed in any law enforcement or even a mall cop! these police officers should be sued as well as the department! these officers should be arrested charged and brought to court!!

anything less is BS!!! of course if they are found innocent then they would be allowed to work as law enforcement but if guilty they never should be allowed to near any law enforcement agency!!

this is just plain insanity. many people should be fired over this and i can promise you this isn't the first time just one of many caught on tape! this truly makes all police officers look extermely bad!!! face palm

Forget being fired -- if I, and my friends, did that, we'd all be in jail for years. Anything less for the cops is less than justice.

I'd put the odds of justice at less than 1 in 50.

speciallyblend
04-13-2010, 04:04 PM
Forget being fired -- if I, and my friends, did that, we'd all be in jail for years. Anything less for the cops is less than justice.

I'd put the odds of justice at less than 1 in 50.

i hear you that is why i said they should be arrested and charged and brought to court.

i have my choice words for them but i will refrain!!

catdd
04-13-2010, 04:08 PM
Nothing ever happens to them, that's why they keep doing this shit and they don't even care who sees it anymore.

Toureg89
04-13-2010, 04:08 PM
Give me a break.

This is the same police department that performed a no-knock raid on the mayor of Berwyn Heights and shot his dogs. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/07/mayor.warrant/)

Note that it's the same MSM reporting on that shining example of our boys in blue.

I'll give you one guess as to how that turned out in the end.

that's what i was pointing out on other forums. it would seem that among the many federal and state policies that corrupts the essential functions of law enforcement agencies, that this Prince George's county agency suffers from even more severe perversion of law enforcement identity, as evidence by past actions.

catdd
04-13-2010, 04:12 PM
that's what i was pointing out on other forums. it would seem that among the many federal and state policies that corrupts the essential functions of law enforcement agencies, that this Prince George's county agency suffers from even more severe perversion of law enforcement identity, as evidence by past actions.

Mispost.

Danke
04-13-2010, 04:17 PM
fuck the police....

How many drinks have you had there Jaywalker?

Do you have a receipt for that hot dog?

Show me some ID.

Inflation
04-13-2010, 04:25 PM
http://blog.partyaids.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/guillotine.gif

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/f0307s.jpg

http://www.harrymcfee.com/mussolini2.jpg

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 04:40 PM
We get kind of inundated with this, and all we get in reply is "but OATHKEEPERS!"
Not nihilistic, but beyond pissed.
I'm preemptively telling the apologists to shut the fuck up.
There is no excuse for this and at this point everyone wearing a uniform is guilty.

Go fuck yourself. Since you told me to shut the fuck up. When us "police apologists" start talking it is usually in response to some bullshit comment that all police should be shot or some such nonsense. Often our apologetics are in response to a video that ISNT clear. Often the actions of the victim isn't clear and the context of the video isn't clear. And yes I do think police militarization is a problem.

Yeah. In this video, it IS clear. Clear instance of police brutality. So I won't defend them or their actions....unless some assholes start calling for "all pigs to be murdered". And then I WONT shut the fuck up.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Go fuck yourself.
Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/funny-pictures-cat-brings-hell-to-you.jpg

TinCanToNA
04-13-2010, 05:10 PM
A lot of these cops are returning military vets.
Do you have a point? A lot of Ron Paul's supporters are active duty military.
Collectivism is slavery.

speciallyblend
04-13-2010, 05:10 PM
Go fuck yourself. Since you told me to shut the fuck up. When us "police apologists" start talking it is usually in response to some bullshit comment that all police should be shot or some such nonsense. Often our apologetics are in response to a video that ISNT clear. Often the actions of the victim isn't clear and the context of the video isn't clear. And yes I do think police militarization is a problem.

Yeah. In this video, it IS clear. Clear instance of police brutality. So I won't defend them or their actions....unless some assholes start calling for "all pigs to be murdered". And then I WONT shut the fuck up.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

curious are you a police officer?? just wondered? the funny part about police here. Is they all know i am the local marijuana activist, so they know i am no trouble and they are always saying hi to me and i get along with the sheriffs and local police! they know the real issues and know we are here to help them!! i can't imagine ever living east of denver ever!! the difference between local police and county from city police/state is night and day!!! we have a few rogue police but i have to say a good majority are just people like me:)

charrob
04-13-2010, 05:19 PM
Give me a break.

This is the same police department that performed a no-knock raid on the mayor of Berwyn Heights and shot his dogs. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/07/mayor.warrant/)

Note that it's the same MSM reporting on that shining example of our boys in blue.

I'll give you one guess as to how that turned out in the end.

hi, you know as soon as i saw the link i thought of the same thing, you are right. I used to work a couple blocks from the Univ. Of Md., remember the incident with the college park mayor you're referring to, and even witnessed police brutality one day looking out of the window from my office.

Maryland, in general, has cops everywhere; going to work in P.G. County, i noticed they even ride in hummer-type TANKS with radar spinning around on top...this is right off East West Hwy. which has tons of traffic.

i tend to think the fraternal order of police buys off our politicians to keep hiring more and more cops, otherwise, why would our roads be so infested with them? my dad lives about 15 miles from my home: usually when i go visit him, there will be at least 9-10 cop cars patrolling the roads between my house and his. It's odd.

catdd
04-13-2010, 05:19 PM
Do you have a point? A lot of Ron Paul's supporters are active duty military.
Collectivism is slavery.

Yeah, I have a point and I think I made it. Lots of these guys are suffering from PTSD and should have psychiatric examinations before even being considered for police work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/30suicide.html
Now what in your collective opinion has caused the dramatic increase in police brutality over the past few years?

charrob
04-13-2010, 05:31 PM
Go fuck yourself. Since you told me to shut the fuck up. When us "police apologists" start talking it is usually in response to some bullshit comment that all police should be shot or some such nonsense. Often our apologetics are in response to a video that ISNT clear. Often the actions of the victim isn't clear and the context of the video isn't clear. And yes I do think police militarization is a problem.

Yeah. In this video, it IS clear. Clear instance of police brutality. So I won't defend them or their actions....unless some assholes start calling for "all pigs to be murdered". And then I WONT shut the fuck up.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

--just curious, did you side with Gates or Crowley in the Henry Louis Gates issue awhile back?

libertyjam
04-13-2010, 05:42 PM
hi, you know as soon as i saw the link i thought of the same thing, you are right. I used to work a couple blocks from the Univ. Of Md., remember the incident with the college park mayor you're referring to, and even witnessed police brutality one day looking out of the window from my office.

Maryland, in general, has cops everywhere; going to work in P.G. County, i noticed they even ride in hummer-type TANKS with radar spinning around on top...this is right off East West Hwy. which has tons of traffic.

i tend to think the fraternal order of police buys off our politicians to keep hiring more and more cops, otherwise, why would our roads be so infested with them? my dad lives about 15 miles from my home: usually when i go visit him, there will be at least 9-10 cop cars patrolling the roads between my house and his. It's odd.

Ex was from NJ. She grew up with a few boys that were sons of the police chief. Biggest bullies around according to her, since they got away with pretty much anything. They all grew up to be cops, and of course, still bullies. Bullying is now institutional as well as generational in these groups all too often it seems.

LibForestPaul
04-13-2010, 05:57 PM
The police will understand when the Grandfather of the college kid who got beaten lets these officers and this department of his 2nd amendment rights.

LibForestPaul
04-13-2010, 06:03 PM
So, I posted a reply above, then I read the documents, then I watched the video.

It is not the beating that is disturbing so much as the cowardly lie by these "officers". Why is Maryland hiring pussies?

BlackTerrel
04-13-2010, 06:14 PM
Well something is going on with the police force these days. I've never in my lifetime seen them acting with this kind of brutality.
I'm just saying that a lot of these guys returning are a few shy of a 6-pack and probably need psychiatric evaluations before being put on the force.
You know how many of those guys are suicidal? There is an insane number of suicides occurring in active duty and returning military personnel.

No there isn't - don't believe the hype. Check my post #3 here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2640915#post2640915

Military are no more likely to commit suicide than anyone else. At least for active duty - I didn't do the numbers on returning personnel because the data wasn't there.

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 06:22 PM
No there isn't - don't believe the hype. Check my post #3 here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=240039&page=4

Military are no more likely to commit suicide than anyone else. At least for active duty - I didn't do the numbers on returning personnel because the data wasn't there.

Say what?
First you don't have a #3 post in that thread,
and it has nothing to do with suicide rates.

But since you are making a point (sort of ) about it.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/01/military-suicides/


"The fact of the matter is, we just don't know" why suicides have increased, Army Chief of Staff Gen. George W. Casey Jr. said Friday. "It's been very frustrating to me with the effort that we made over the last year, and we did not stem the tide."

charrob
04-13-2010, 06:26 PM
Say what?
First you don't have a #3 post in that thread,
and it has nothing to do with suicide rates.

But since you are making a point (sort of ) about it.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/01/military-suicides/

i was alittle confused by that too :confused: . However, i think what he meant to refer to was that there was some evidence somewhere that the number of military suicides occurring in the military was not greater than the number of suicides in the general population.

catdd
04-13-2010, 06:29 PM
Say what?
First you don't have a #3 post in that thread,
and it has nothing to do with suicide rates.

But since you are making a point (sort of ) about it.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/01/military-suicides/

He'll just question your source and insist it isn't documented proof and then tell you all about his good friends back home.
He didn't even bother to read my link on military suicides...

HERE HERE HERE HERE
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/30suicide.html

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 06:36 PM
http://www.gazette.net/images/2010_0414/beatingpg041510b_rgbb.jpg

Yeah, just a few bruises. :mad:

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 06:39 PM
Again AF you have quite the nose for these articles. :mad:

That story is one of the "bad ones" you just don't forget.

The video make my stomach turn.

:mad:

Toureg89
04-13-2010, 06:42 PM
Mispost.
huh?:confused:

Pete_00
04-13-2010, 06:46 PM
Police brutality yes...but he was clearly provoking them so i dont fell sorry for him.

Drunk hooligans celebrating their sports team victory can do to you (just for fun) what the police did to him.

Happy ending, police brutes get in trouble and hooligan douchebag gets his face pummeled in :D

Mini-Me
04-13-2010, 06:48 PM
We need a specific forum for these incidents, where each and every thread chronicles one of them. That way, we have them all in the same place for showing other people to convince them that, yes, there IS a damn endemic problem with cops in this country. I think having a very focused go-to place for compiling this stuff is very important for spreading awareness. All in favor?

Toureg89
04-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Police brutality yes...but he was clearly provoking them so i dont fell sorry for him.

Drunk hooligans celebrating their sports team victory can do to you (just for fun) what the police did to him.

Happy ending, police brutes get in trouble and hooligan douchebag gets his face pummeled in :D
que?

i must have missed the part where prancing around like a gay fairy turned into provoking a hostile response by LEOs...:rolleyes:

and yes. drunk hooligans can do the same thing. and thats why they should be tried, in a court of law, as harshly as the cops in the vid.

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 06:49 PM
Police brutality yes...but he was clearly provoking them so i dont fell sorry for him.

Drunk hooligans celebrating their sports team victory can do to you (just for fun) what the police did to him.

Happy ending, police brutes get in trouble and hooligan douchebag gets his face pummeled in :D

Nothing the man did in that video even remotely justifies the brutal attack he received. All the cops involved should be in jail for years. And yes, I do feel bad for the victim.

charrob
04-13-2010, 06:50 PM
We need a specific forum for these incidents, where each and every thread chronicles one of them. That way, we have them all in the same place for showing other people to convince them that, yes, there IS a damn endemic problem with cops in this country.

+1

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 06:50 PM
We need a specific forum for these instances, where each and every thread chronicles one of these instances. That way, we have them all in the same place for showing other people to convince them that, yes, there IS a damn endemic problem with cops in this country.

There was a thread in Civil Liberties.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=137477

It can be added to. ;)

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 06:50 PM
We need a specific forum for these incidents, where each and every thread chronicles one of them. That way, we have them all in the same place for showing other people to convince them that, yes, there IS a damn endemic problem with cops in this country.

I've been twittering one police abuse story per day (@stopCopAbuse), since the beginning of the month, and I haven't even come close to running short.

We could start the thread with those links.

charrob
04-13-2010, 06:51 PM
...but he was clearly provoking them so i dont fell sorry for him.

he did nothing wrong.

low preference guy
04-13-2010, 06:52 PM
Police brutality yes...but he was clearly provoking them so i dont fell sorry for him.

Drunk hooligans celebrating their sports team victory can do to you (just for fun) what the police did to him.

Happy ending, police brutes get in trouble and hooligan douchebag gets his face pummeled in :D

what an idiot.

this guy is worthless. he is like a person who will beat up his kids in front of others to get attention. just ignore him. he is on my list now. (Click on his name/View Public Profile/User lists/Add to ignore list)

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 06:52 PM
I've been twittering one police abuse story per day (@stopCopAbuse), since the beginning of the month, and I haven't even come close to running short.

We could start the thread with those links.


Also, check out http://www.cato.org/raidmap/ for some older cases of SWAT abuse.

catdd
04-13-2010, 06:53 PM
what an idiot.

this guy is worthless. he is like a person who will beat up his kids in front of others to get attention. just ignore him. he is on my list now. (Click on his name/View Public Profile/User lists/Add to ignore list)

It was so bad, I thought it had to be sarcasm.

BlackTerrel
04-13-2010, 06:54 PM
Say what?
First you don't have a #3 post in that thread,
and it has nothing to do with suicide rates.

But since you are making a point (sort of ) about it.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/01/military-suicides/

Sorry. Meant to say my post #3 here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2640915#post2640915


Last year, 128 soldiers committed suicide and another 15 suspected cases are pending.


A new six-year analysis in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine found that the U.S. suicide rate rose to 11 per 100,000 people in 2005

Always take these numbers with a grain of salt. I think there are about 1.5 million active duty US military. If that's the case then

Total US population 11 per 100,000 suicide
US Military 9 per 100,000 suicide

Which is actually lower than the civilian rate of suicide. Now there are probably some issues here like gender and age that I frankly don't have the time or patience to get into. Either way - it doesn't seem to be more a problem in the military than it does the population at large.

I always try to see the bigger picture of any news story. I don't mistrust the MSM like many here. I take them at their word just like in this story nothing they said is false or a lie (otherwise it would be easy to expose them) rather by not giving you the whole picture they paint a particular agenda.

low preference guy
04-13-2010, 06:54 PM
We need a specific forum for these incidents, where each and every thread chronicles one of them. That way, we have them all in the same place for showing other people to convince them that, yes, there IS a damn endemic problem with cops in this country.

I agree 100%. I hope Josh or Bryan read your statement. How can we suggest them to read this thread?

Toureg89
04-13-2010, 06:55 PM
It was so bad, I thought it had to be sarcasm.
lol, i'm still confused by what you meant by "mispost"...

low preference guy
04-13-2010, 06:57 PM
//

BlackTerrel
04-13-2010, 06:58 PM
He'll just question your source and insist it isn't documented proof and then tell you all about his good friends back home.
He didn't even bother to read my link on military suicides...

HERE HERE HERE HERE
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/30suicide.html

Ok this is from your link:

Including the deaths being investigated, roughly 20.2 of every 100,000 soldiers killed themselves. The civilian rate for 2006, the most recent figure available, was 19.2 when adjusted to match the demographics.

They did a more sophisticated study than me because they had exact numbers and were able to match the demographics. Seems pretty close.

Either way we are talking about 0.02% who are committing suicide. That's not an epidemic despite the media hype.

TinCanToNA
04-13-2010, 06:58 PM
Yeah, I have a point and I think I made it. Lots of these guys are suffering from PTSD and should have psychiatric examinations before even being considered for police work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/30suicide.html
Now what in your collective opinion has caused the dramatic increase in police brutality over the past few years?
It's fair to do a psychiatric evaluation for someone going into any line of work like that, I agree.

However, I am not quite sure I buy into the two-fold argument you are posing. Haven't reviewed enough evidence to come to a conclusion, but...

1) I am not sure if there is a dramatic rise in police brutality. For every anecdote of a student or whoever getting beaten by a cop, there's probably one of a black man getting hosed or beat or dogs loosed upon him from decades past. I suspect that the perception of an increase in police brutality is due to the fact that we have near ubiquity in video-capture technology now.

2) I doubt the inclination to be a brutal police officer has much to do with being a vet, PTSD or otherwise. I think it has as much to do with innumerable other factors such as national standardization, arms race against gangs, and an overall shift in training paradigms. Maybe it's just the allure of the badge and the gun that attracts bullies?

While you may be right that a vet with PTSD probably shouldn't be a cop, I doubt that's even in the top three main reasons for police brutality.

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 07:05 PM
I updated the other thread, with some recent stories.

It might be better to start something new, though.

charrob
04-13-2010, 07:06 PM
I agree 100%. I hope Josh or Bryan read your statement. How can we suggest them to read this thread?

Josh told me one time to click on the red-bordered white triangle with the exclamation mark in it, that's on the left side of your screen (in the blue part where our names are); he said when this is done, a moderator will be alerted to look at the thread.

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 07:08 PM
Maybe it's just the allure of the badge and the gun that attracts bullies?

While you may be right that a vet with PTSD probably shouldn't be a cop, I doubt that's even in the top three main reasons for police brutality.

Bingo

And before any one starts,
I do not hate cops. I hate the police state. I hate the authoritarian mentality that feeds it.

And yes, it is a serious problem that should never exist in this country. There should not be a standing army of police. Period.
But there is.
As society crumbles (and it will/is) the enforcers will be targets. Fact of life.
If there are any good men in those uniforms it will not matter. every badge will be a target.
This kind of incident insures that.

catdd
04-13-2010, 07:30 PM
It's fair to do a psychiatric evaluation for someone going into any line of work like that, I agree.

However, I am not quite sure I buy into the two-fold argument you are posing. Haven't reviewed enough evidence to come to a conclusion, but...

1) I am not sure if there is a dramatic rise in police brutality. For every anecdote of a student or whoever getting beaten by a cop, there's probably one of a black man getting hosed or beat or dogs loosed upon him from decades past. I suspect that the perception of an increase in police brutality is due to the fact that we have near ubiquity in video-capture technology now.

2) I doubt the inclination to be a brutal police officer has much to do with being a vet, PTSD or otherwise. I think it has as much to do with innumerable other factors such as national standardization, arms race against gangs, and an overall shift in training paradigms. Maybe it's just the allure of the badge and the gun that attracts bullies?


While you may be right that a vet with PTSD probably shouldn't be a cop, I doubt that's even in the top three main reasons for police brutality.

Well it's common knowledge that police are hiring returning vets and there has been a dramatic upswing in police brutality since 9/11 - here - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-17-copmisconduct_n.htm
And it is also common knowledge that PTSD is extremely high in the military.
I think that it is easy enough for them to switch foreign enemies for domestic ones and that is bad for everyone. But either way, I think the police force is much more interested in how they shoot rather than what condition their mind is in. Putting them to work on the force also eliminates the risk of having to fight against them at some point.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 07:41 PM
[We need a specific forum for these incidents,

MM and TT and LPG have all made the suggestion, as well as many others, that a subforum just for these stories needs to be set up or a web site devoted just to them.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Sadly, a sub forum or yet another web site would split the viewing up and further "water it down".

I self-censor when posting these stories.

TT mentioned, he's "twittering" one a day, and well he should. I could do the same here but I don't want to lessen the impact of these stories.

I try to pick out some of the most egregious and horrendous examples, ones that leave no wiggle room for apologists, soldier sniffers and cop lovers.

Stories that make it absolutely clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any interaction with cops must be approached with extreme caution and, if the encounter goes wrong, could very possibly end up with you dead, beaten to a pulp or incarcerated for years.

The enforcement arm of the state calls us "civilians".

The next military term for us are "enemies", "hostiles" and "combatants".

The system is not fucking around with us here.

Your life may, quite literally and without hyperbole, depend on what you are reading here, and the cautionary tales that you take away from these, infuriatingly more common, stories.

If my "vote" means anything, I vote these stories stay front and center with maximum exposure, for the reason above.

Reason
04-13-2010, 07:43 PM
YouTube - More Evidence Cops Are THUGS & PROFESSIONAL LIARS! (Maryland Edition) pt.1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcGJ43Z49X4)

speciallyblend
04-13-2010, 07:47 PM
Josh told me one time to click on the red-bordered white triangle with the exclamation mark in it, that's on the left side of your screen (in the blue part where our names are); he said when this is done, a moderator will be alerted to look at the thread.

yep they will get the notice,just depends if they are on at the moment!!

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 07:52 PM
"This is unbelievable"
No. It is not.


"This is an anomaly"
No. It is not.
:mad:

catdd
04-13-2010, 07:54 PM
i try to pick out some of the most egregious and horrendous examples, ones that leave no wiggle room for apologists, soldier sniffers and cop lovers.

Stories that make it absolutely clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any interaction with cops must be approached with extreme caution and, if the encounter goes wrong, could very possibly end up with you dead, beaten to a pulp or incarcerated for years.

The enforcement arm of the state calls us "civilians".

The next military term for us are "enemies", "hostiles" and "combatants".

the system is not fucking around with us here.

Your life may, quite literally and without hyperbole, depend on what you are reading here, and the cautionary tales that you take away from these, infuriatingly more common, stories.

If my "vote" means anything, i vote these stories stay front and center with maximum exposure, for the reason above.








+ 1776

Mini-Me
04-13-2010, 08:03 PM
MM and TT and LPG have all made the suggestion, as well as many others, that a subforum just for these stories needs to be set up or a web site devoted just to them.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Sadly, a sub forum or yet another web site would split the viewing up and further "water it down".

I self-censor when posting these stories.

TT mentioned, he's "twittering" one a day, and well he should. I could do the same here but I don't want to lessen the impact of these stories.

I try to pick out some of the most egregious and horrendous examples, ones that leave no wiggle room for apologists, soldier sniffers and cop lovers.

Stories that make it absolutely clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any interaction with cops must be approached with extreme caution and, if the encounter goes wrong, could very possibly end up with you dead, beaten to a pulp or incarcerated for years.

The enforcement arm of the state calls us "civilians".

The next military term for us are "enemies", "hostiles" and "combatants".

The system is not fucking around with us here.

Your life may, quite literally and without hyperbole, depend on what you are reading here, and the cautionary tales that you take away from these, infuriatingly more common, stories.

If my "vote" means anything, I vote these stories stay front and center with maximum exposure, for the reason above.

Actually, the whole reason I suggested a separate forum is precisely so these stories stay front and center. Perhaps standard policy should be to post them in General Politics, then move them into their own subforum once they've slipped off the radar? That does impose a heavier burden on mods, but as it stands, I feel like these threads disappear too quickly in a sea of unrelated threads when they remain in General Politics and/or Civil Liberties. Each incident gradually fades from memory to be replaced with the next, and there's no one place to go to recapture the whole picture of just how common they are and just how awful the situation is.

The thread that pcosmar mentioned is helpful, but a single thread isn't really ideal for two reasons:
Remembering to copy each story into the police brutality thread is a duplication of effort that just usually doesn't get done. (That said, you could say the same about moving a General Politics thread to the right subforum once it's outlived its active lifespan.) This might be changed if the thread is made into a frequently updated sticky.
Second, the single-thread format means that details and discussion will either be omitted or turn into a convoluted mess.
I didn't know about tremendoustie's twittering effort, but it's an excellent idea...I do think it's better as a complement to friendly forum organization than a substitute though, because I think a bird's eye historical perspective on all of these incidents would be very helpful for bringing ignorant police state apologists up to speed on the situation. I understand the concern about the most flagrant violations becoming diluted by incidents where apologists have "wiggle room," but the status quo provides no easily accessible historical perspective at all anyway.

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 08:16 PM
Actually, the whole reason I suggested a separate forum is precisely so these stories stay front and center. Perhaps standard policy should be to post them in General Politics, then move them into their own subforum once they've slipped off the radar?

That's a plausible alternative.


That does impose a heavier burden on mods, but as it stands, I feel like these threads disappear too quickly in a sea of unrelated threads when they remain in General Politics and/or Civil Liberties. Each incident gradually fades from memory to be replaced with the next, and there's no one place to go to recapture the whole picture of just how common they are and just awful the situation is.

And once Ron announces for 2012, expect that to quadruple. ;)

They do, and my disagreement has no rancor in it whatsoever, you make a very valid point.

It was only after careful consideration that I suggested that things remain the same, that the gain would be outweighed by the loss.

But a move after a period of time would work. And it would provide a handy reference to refer back to cases as similar ones come up or as results of prosecutions come in. (hahahahahha yeah, fucking right, prosecutions, oh I crack myself up sometimes :mad:)

I'd make it a point to post my stories to both forums or move the threads if the ability was there.


I didn't know about tremendoustie's twittering effort, but it's an excellent idea...I do think it's better as a complement to friendly forum organization than a substitute though, because I think a bird's eye historical perspective on all of these incidents would be very helpful for bringing ignorant police state apologists up to speed on the situation.

Along with ability to add new and complex information which just isn't capable in a twitter format.

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 08:22 PM
1. I am not going to go to hell. 2. I am not a cop. 3. I had no opinion on the whole Gates thing.

What bothers me is the premature threats of violence against ALL police officers. You don't have to like them. Fight them in court. Protect your rights with force from police if you have to. But declaring that we should "kill all the pigs" is something i would expect to hear from immature left leaning anarcho statist punks. Even slight hints of violence bother me when rights are not being personally threatened.

My language may be immature, but my thoughts are the type of thinking that will get Ron Paul elected and stop making us look like a bunch of fucking pedomorphic lunatics.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Mini-Me
04-13-2010, 08:24 PM
That's a plausible alternative.



And once Ron announces for 2012, expect that to quadruple. ;)

They do, and my disagreement has no rancor in it whatsoever, you make a very valid point.

It was only after careful consideration that I suggested that things remain the same, that the gain would be outweighed by the loss.

But a move after a period of time would work. And it would provide a handy reference to refer back to cases as similar ones come up or as results of prosecutions come in. (hahahahahha yeah, fucking right, prosecutions, oh I crack myself up sometimes :mad:)

I'd make it a point to post my stories to both forums or move the threads if the ability was there.



Along with ability to add new and complex information which just isn't capable in a twitter format.

Cool. :) Josh, Bryan, if you're reading this, what do you guys think? Also, would it be technically feasible for thread creators to gain the ability to move their thread to another subforum? (I know there are political/dramatic implications here, like mods and thread owners fighting back and forth, but that alone is nothing a good spanking wouldn't solve...)

catdd
04-13-2010, 08:24 PM
1. I am not going to go to hell. 2. I am not a cop. 3. I had no opinion on the whole Gates thing.

What bothers me is the premature threats of violence against ALL police officers. You don't have to like them. Fight them in court. Protect your rights with force from police if you have to. But declaring that we should "kill all the pigs" is something i would expect to hear from immature left leaning anarcho statist punks. Even slight hints of violence bother me when rights are not being personally threatened.

My language may be immature, but my thoughts are the type of thinking that will get Ron Paul elected and stop making us look like a bunch of fucking pedomorphic lunatics.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

No one said anything like that in this thread and your advertising something you heard elsewhere makes us all look bad.

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 08:28 PM
No one said anything like that in this thread.

Yeah. posting pictures of a certain piece of french machinery designed for beheading people does not promote any violence. Oh wait. Maybe it does.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 08:28 PM
No one said anything like that in this thread.

I was wondering where that shit came from too. :confused:

Delusional.

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 08:31 PM
I was wondering where that shit came from too. :confused:

Delusional.

Picard

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 08:36 PM
Wow leave the forums for a time and all I can say is WTF?:confused:

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 08:37 PM
Picard

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

http://nagendraprasad.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/lolcat_what.jpg

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 08:42 PM
I was wondering where that shit came from too. :confused:

Delusional.

I am completely blind. You are right. I didn't notice the pictures right BEFORE MY FUCKING POST. It came out of nowhere. Shit. I am crazzzyyy.... Do you seriously want me to go look up quotes from other threads?

Here are a couple examples from THIS thread.


I'm preemptively telling the apologists to shut the fuck up.
There is no excuse for this and at this point everyone wearing a uniform is guilty.

The above quote is obviously intune with the ideals of liberty. I mean, everybody is fucking guilty by association. That is how liberty works right.


fuck the police....

Now, I actually like the guy who said this, but quoting Rage Against the Machine doesn't really do much to enhance our credibility in the Republican Party.

Do you really want me to go look up other threads.

Yep. I am dellusional.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Mike4Freedom
04-13-2010, 08:46 PM
Not only do they need to be fired but they also need to have charges brought up. If I attacked someone in that way and was found guilty I would probably be looking at least at some jail time.

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 08:51 PM
Not only do they need to be fired but they also need to have charges brought up. If I attacked someone in that way and was found guilty I would probably be looking at least at some jail time.

Amen. These men deserve prison.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Inquisitive
04-13-2010, 08:51 PM
I try to pick out some of the most egregious and horrendous examples, ones that leave no wiggle room for apologists, soldier sniffers and cop lovers.

Stories that make it absolutely clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any interaction with cops must be approached with extreme caution and, if the encounter goes wrong, could very possibly end up with you dead, beaten to a pulp or incarcerated for years.

The enforcement arm of the state calls us "civilians".

The next military term for us are "enemies", "hostiles" and "combatants".

The system is not fucking around with us here.

Your life may, quite literally and without hyperbole, depend on what you are reading here, and the cautionary tales that you take away from these, infuriatingly more common, stories.

If my "vote" means anything, I vote these stories stay front and center with maximum exposure, for the reason above.

I would really like to see some in depth studies done on police brutality and its occurrence on a daily basis, in particular the rate of incidence per number of arrests/police actions occurring on a daily basis. I really think the internet and message/video boards have been instrumental in bringing to light cases of Police brutality, and generating awareness among the masses.

catdd
04-13-2010, 08:51 PM
Not only do they need to be fired but they also need to have charges brought up. If I attacked someone in that way and was found guilty I would probably be looking at least at some jail time.


In this case, not only was LT. Brown found to have been within his rights to have shot Derek, he was decorated by the police force for his heroic actions.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w10.html

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 08:55 PM
Now, I actually like the guy who said this, but quoting Rage Against the Machine doesn't really do much to enhance our credibility in the Republican Party.



Yep. I am dellusional.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Ok, I believed that those pics were in reference to the French Revolution. A very possible future in this country. More likely due to events like this.

And for the record, I could give a shit about the republican party. It has no credibility with me.

I was involved with it and saw what they did to Ron Paul, and what they continue to do. I am watching what they are doing to a good Liberty candidate locally.

I have little hope in a substantial change anytime soon.
I am more interested in waking folks to reality, than perpetuating a myth.

I am building the resistance.

eyes and ears open.

Slutter McGee
04-13-2010, 09:01 PM
A society without police is a libertarian wetdream. We need to working towards the demilitarization of law enforcement, and introducing measures that limit their capacity and hold them accountable for ALL violations of our rights. This system would not be perfect, but certainly it is better than damning them all to hell.

And Ron Paul IS a Republican. You may not care what the party, specifically the members, not the leadership, think, but as somebody who would like to get our candidates elected....I do care. Very much so..

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 09:05 PM
And Ron Paul IS a Republican. You may not care what the party, specifically the members, not the leadership, think, but as somebody who would like to get our candidates elected....I do care. Very much so..

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

I have been hoping that since Ronald Reagan.
Like I said Reality, rather than a myth.

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 09:05 PM
I am completely blind. You are right. I didn't notice the pictures right BEFORE MY FUCKING POST. It came out of nowhere. Shit. I am crazzzyyy.... Do you seriously want me to go look up quotes from other threads?

Here are a couple examples from THIS thread.



The above quote is obviously intune with the ideals of liberty. I mean, everybody is fucking guilty by association. That is how liberty works right.



I agree, guilt by association is not ok. It's true that most cops defend even horrific behavior -- I've seen it firsthand. But, people are not guilty just because they have a badge. They should be judged on their own actions.

That said, I will not trust anyone with a badge, unless they have shown themselves to be trustworthy. I'm not going to call 911 and just hope that the the cop from the real mccoys magically shows up, just as I'm not going to go pet a random tiger, and hope it's trained.

Individuals should be judged for their own actions, but trusting cops, in general, is foolish.



Now, I actually like the guy who said this, but quoting Rage Against the Machine doesn't really do much to enhance our credibility in the Republican Party.


I'm interested in the truth, not sucking up to a bunch of warmongering neocons.

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 09:08 PM
MM and TT and LPG have all made the suggestion, as well as many others, that a subforum just for these stories needs to be set up or a web site devoted just to them.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Sadly, a sub forum or yet another web site would split the viewing up and further "water it down".

I self-censor when posting these stories.

TT mentioned, he's "twittering" one a day, and well he should. I could do the same here but I don't want to lessen the impact of these stories.

I try to pick out some of the most egregious and horrendous examples, ones that leave no wiggle room for apologists, soldier sniffers and cop lovers.

Stories that make it absolutely clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any interaction with cops must be approached with extreme caution and, if the encounter goes wrong, could very possibly end up with you dead, beaten to a pulp or incarcerated for years.

The enforcement arm of the state calls us "civilians".

The next military term for us are "enemies", "hostiles" and "combatants".

The system is not fucking around with us here.

Your life may, quite literally and without hyperbole, depend on what you are reading here, and the cautionary tales that you take away from these, infuriatingly more common, stories.

If my "vote" means anything, I vote these stories stay front and center with maximum exposure, for the reason above.

I agree -- they should start in GP, for all the reasons you mention -- but then I'd say they could be collected into a special section, after they drop off the front page.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 09:17 PM
Time to choose a side. ;) Because their side means a steady paycheck, a wife, home and everything that goes with denying other individuals rights for personal gain.

WTF? Is there anything to discuss in this instance? Fuck!

Joeyblackrose
04-13-2010, 09:18 PM
Gee, groups like HUTAREE dont seem so bad huh?

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 09:19 PM
Gee, groups like HUTAREE dont seem so bad huh?

Welcome to the forums. :)

charrob
04-13-2010, 09:20 PM
Actually, the whole reason I suggested a separate forum is precisely so these stories stay front and center. Perhaps standard policy should be to post them in General Politics, then move them into their own subforum once they've slipped off the radar? That does impose a heavier burden on mods,

i like this idea.

to lighten the burden on mods, is there a way the mods could do this automatically with a batch job once a night: the batch job could do a search on thread titles, and for any thread titles from that day (or previous days) that contain the word "police", "cop", or "law enforcement", the program would perform a copy of that thread and automatically insert that thread into the new forum? :confused:

i mean microsoft email folders are kind of like that: you create a one-time programmatic "rule" and Windows Mail ( and Outlook Express) allows you to separate all current as well as incoming mail into separate folders based on criteria of what's in the subject line, incoming address, etc.

don't know how the website is created...is it a relational database where each entry into a thread is a record related to a thread_name?

pcosmar
04-13-2010, 09:22 PM
Gee, groups like HUTAREE dont seem so bad huh?

No,They don't.
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin580.htm

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2630788

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 09:28 PM
I agree, guilt by association is not ok. It's true that most cops defend even horrific behavior -- I've seen it firsthand. But, people are not guilty just because they have a badge. They should be judged on their own actions.

That said, I will not trust anyone with a badge, unless they have shown themselves to be trustworthy. I'm not going to call 911 and just hope that the the cop from the real mccoys magically shows up, just as I'm not going to go pet a random tiger, and hope it's trained.

Individuals should be judged for their own actions, but trusting cops, in general, is foolish.

You are involving yourself in a contradiction with those statements. ;)

Joeyblackrose
04-13-2010, 09:31 PM
Things i'd like to see

The Cops ( from the above video)
Vs
These Guys(from this video)

YouTube - SCA Combat Types (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQjh8EQ5h40&feature=related)

Anti Federalist
04-13-2010, 09:34 PM
I would really like to see some in depth studies done on police brutality and its occurrence on a daily basis, in particular the rate of incidence per number of arrests/police actions occurring on a daily basis. I really think the internet and message/video boards have been instrumental in bringing to light cases of Police brutality, and generating awareness among the masses.

There might be some truth to that, that maybe we are just more aware.

I would say no though.

There are not 7 million people in the prison "system" in the US, more than any other country on earth, because the fuzzy snuggle ducks put them there.

And, outside of big cities, these were not common scenes in the US:

http://mnchange.org/images/82.jpg

http://www.gunpundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/swat.jpg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2006/150906swat.jpg

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 09:35 PM
Gee, groups like HUTAREE dont seem so bad huh?

Aggressive violence is not ok -- whether it be by cops or against cops. And even defensive violence against government is counterproductive and leads to nothing good.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 09:41 PM
Aggressive violence is not ok -- whether it be by cops or against cops. And even defensive violence against government is counterproductive and leads to nothing good.

Defensive violence is euphoric. You should give it a whirl.;)

Joeyblackrose
04-13-2010, 09:41 PM
Aggressive violence is not ok -- whether it be by cops or against cops. And even defensive violence against government is counterproductive and leads to nothing good.


In some ways I will agree.
But look at the past 230 or so years.
I wouldnt say that was nothing good.

TinCanToNA
04-13-2010, 10:11 PM
Well it's common knowledge that police are hiring returning vets and there has been a dramatic upswing in police brutality since 9/11 - here - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-17-copmisconduct_n.htm
And it is also common knowledge that PTSD is extremely high in the military.
I think that it is easy enough for them to switch foreign enemies for domestic ones and that is bad for everyone. But either way, I think the police force is much more interested in how they shoot rather than what condition their mind is in. Putting them to work on the force also eliminates the risk of having to fight against them at some point.Still not seeing a link between the two, other than conjecture. Also, I seriously doubt the total number of instances of police brutality is anything near the level of, say, the 1970's, 1950's, 1920's, and so forth. Even moreso when considered on a per capita basis. Granted, the reported cases are up from the previous decade, but that could be attributed to camera video phone ubiquity alone, which has taken place over the same timeframe.

Again, not saying anything conclusive, but I am not convinced of the same things you're convinced of.

phill4paul
04-13-2010, 10:21 PM
Still not seeing a link between the two, other than conjecture. Also, I seriously doubt the total number of instances of police brutality is anything near the level of, say, the 1970's, 1950's, 1920's, and so forth. Even moreso when considered on a per capita basis. Granted, the reported cases are up from the previous decade, but that could be attributed to camera video phone ubiquity alone, which has taken place over the same timeframe.

Again, not saying anything conclusive, but I am not convinced of the same things you're convinced of.

Yeah it seems Cattd is still harping on the returning vets being the cause of police brutality.
Sorry Cattd police brutality has been there since the time that one set of citizens were given preferential power over other citizens.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

tremendoustie
04-13-2010, 11:04 PM
In some ways I will agree.
But look at the past 230 or so years.
I wouldnt say that was nothing good.

Within a couple years of taking office, Washington violently put down the whiskey rebellion, and others -- these were people who simply didn't want to have their money stolen from them by government.

I think the way to true evolution must be peaceful. Besides, now is the time to educate and inform people. The state's illusion of legitimacy is the problem -- and you don't fight that with force, you fight it with cameras and reason.

Baptist
04-14-2010, 01:35 AM
The best part of this video is the good cops who tackled the bad cops and arrested them for beating the crap out of innocent civilians.

Oh wait, never mind. That video does not exist. That video is just a fantasy of mine.

TheEvilDetector
04-14-2010, 03:46 AM
The best part of this video is the good cops who tackled the bad cops and arrested them for beating the crap out of innocent civilians.

Oh wait, never mind. That video does not exist. That video is just a fantasy of mine.

+1

catdd
04-14-2010, 06:39 AM
Yeah it seems Cattd is still harping on the returning vets being the cause of police brutality.
Sorry Cattd police brutality has been there since the time that one set of citizens were given preferential power over other citizens.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Well I'm not going to argue the militarization of the police force and the role it plays in PB any further but just remember your stance on this issue for future reference. And besides, we are talking about contributing factors here not the absolute cause.
But it amazes me that you don't believe police brutality has increased since 9/11 even with all the documentation. Maybe you have some motive for not believing it such as you don't believe we should have a police force to begin with?

Bruno
04-14-2010, 06:41 AM
The best part of this video is the good cops who tackled the bad cops and arrested them for beating the crap out of innocent civilians.

Oh wait, never mind. That video does not exist. That video is just a fantasy of mine.


you had me for a second there...:(

fisharmor
04-14-2010, 06:53 AM
The Cops ( from the above video)
Vs
These Guys(from this video)

I'm one of those guys, which is why I've commented in the past on how police shield walls are bunk.


The above quote is obviously intune with the ideals of liberty. I mean, everybody is fucking guilty by association. That is how liberty works right.


The best part of this video is the good cops who tackled the bad cops and arrested them for beating the crap out of innocent civilians.

Oh wait, never mind. That video does not exist.

There's your answer, Slutter. Yes, everyone in a uniform is guilty. When I see one, uno, one solitary officer keep his uniform on and decry just one of these incidents in public, then I'll admit that one of them is not guilty.

We didn't start the us vs. them mentality - they did. And we sure as hell aren't seeing any of them say anything different. When they do, you'll have a leg to stand on.




Now, I actually like the guy who said this, but quoting Rage Against the Machine doesn't really do much to enhance our credibility in the Republican Party.
Rage was covering NWA.



In other news, it's on the local news here in the DC area. I am still really not expecting anything to come of it.

fisharmor
04-14-2010, 06:58 AM
Also, regarding the subforum... what I've thought for a while is that we need a free market justice database.
A separate site online, where we can amass data on offenders.
Whenever one of us "gets out of line", it goes in a database, and it has consequences.
I say we do the same to them.

There should be a way for business owners to be able to check online to see if someone is an offender against free market justice.
For instance, If I'm running a Bed and Breakfast, I should be able to check registrations against something online, and if it turns out that it's a cop who beats college students, I should be able to refuse his business.

No reason why we shouldn't be able to make their lives as miserable as we legally can.

catdd
04-14-2010, 07:08 AM
Still not seeing a link between the two, other than conjecture. Also, I seriously doubt the total number of instances of police brutality is anything near the level of, say, the 1970's, 1950's, 1920's, and so forth. Even moreso when considered on a per capita basis. Granted, the reported cases are up from the previous decade, but that could be attributed to camera video phone ubiquity alone, which has taken place over the same timeframe.

Again, not saying anything conclusive, but I am not convinced of the same things you're convinced of.

I will bet 100 dollars that you accept the government's version of 9/11.
I wonder how many instances of PB are not being reported today? I wonder how many hundreds or even thousands of times each year these kind of cases slip under the radar? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3105498

wizardwatson
04-14-2010, 08:06 AM
What concerns me most is how many of these incidents occur that aren't videotaped.

If you're in a crowd that isn't a standard "market" crowd like people at the mall, and is instead a party/fair/rally/march you better have a camera or at least a microphone.

We don't need round-the-clock surveillance of people, we need it for these thugs.

wizardwatson
04-14-2010, 08:06 AM
Also, regarding the subforum... what I've thought for a while is that we need a free market justice database.
A separate site online, where we can amass data on offenders.
Whenever one of us "gets out of line", it goes in a database, and it has consequences.
I say we do the same to them.

There should be a way for business owners to be able to check online to see if someone is an offender against free market justice.
For instance, If I'm running a Bed and Breakfast, I should be able to check registrations against something online, and if it turns out that it's a cop who beats college students, I should be able to refuse his business.

No reason why we shouldn't be able to make their lives as miserable as we legally can.

I agree with this ^^

tremendoustie
04-14-2010, 08:54 AM
And so it begins ... anonymity for the cops, while for any other perpetrators, we'd have their names with in hours. As Thomas DiLorenzo points out, for example, we had the names of the falsely accused Duke players right off the bat.

The chief expresses "outrage", as he quietly takes steps to sweep it under the rug.

osan
04-14-2010, 12:51 PM
Holy hell. That is a very disturbing video.

Thank God it was caught on video.

Damned right. I'm on dialup :( and can't really watch vids. Let me guess - McKenna is a... dare I say it... NEGRO?

I hope those bastard cops go to prison for at least a decade as pass around girls for all those large, lonely men they put there.

We the people need to make this the age of counter=surveillance. Video these bastards in government so they cannot have a moment's peace. Make their lives a living hell. We do NOT need them. Not a single one of them. Let us empty our prisons of all these non-criminals that currently fill them and then stack them high with the carcasses of the true vermin whose hubris leads them to violate and deny our rights. Let them rot in concrete cells until they die.

There. I said it. I feel better.

pcosmar
04-14-2010, 12:58 PM
Damned right. I'm on dialup :( and can't really watch vids. Let me guess - McKenna is a... dare I say it... NEGRO?


Can't tell that from the video, (not that it matters) but a pic posted here shows his bruises. It would appear that he is of lighter skin tone.
http://www.gazette.net/images/2010_0414/beatingpg041510b_rgbb.jpg

osan
04-14-2010, 01:05 PM
From the WaPo story comments:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041204377_Comments.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041204377_Comments.html)



Fuck me I'm going to say it one more time:

WE ARE ALL CIVILIANS!!!

COPS DO NOT GET TO USE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MILITARY FORCES AND CIVILIANS!!!

COPS ARE JUST AS MUCH CIVILIANS AS ANY OF US.

I will add to this that cops are to be held to a higher standard of courage and behavior than non-cops. They exercise authority denied to the rest. They are therefore to be held to a higher standard. If that standard is too high for a given individual, then let him undertake an occupation more to his level of tolerance. Let him, for instance, push a mop down a school hallway. All this "police works is so dangerous" bullshit is the phony baloney pretext upon which they justify their usurpations and abuses. It is pure bullshit. Stop demanding they "enforce" so-called laws that have nothing to do with crime (like drug possession and use, gambling, prostitution etc.) and they won't be getting shot nearly as much as they do. The only legitimate claim of occupational hazard I can make ready note of comes from domestic disturbance calls. Credit where due - most of the rest is a steaming pile.

Time to extricate the collective head from the collective asshole, America. THis infantile stupidity has gone on long enough.

tremendoustie
04-14-2010, 01:14 PM
Damned right. I'm on dialup :( and can't really watch vids. Let me guess - McKenna is a... dare I say it... NEGRO?


While I don't doubt that many PDs are racist, it appears that they're happy to brutalize people of any color.

Here's the real bigotry: Police versus "civilian". We're the second class citizens -- and they'll stick up for their own, no matter how evil.

TinCanToNA
04-14-2010, 03:45 PM
I will bet 100 dollars that you accept the government's version of 9/11.
I wonder how many instances of PB are not being reported today? I wonder how many hundreds or even thousands of times each year these kind of cases slip under the radar? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3105498Well depending on your definition of "the government's version of 9/11," you may or may not win that bet. (Some people define "the government's version" as absolutely any view other than Alex Jones' Mossad/CIA/nano-thermite bullshit. Others are more precise.)

You think many instances of police brutality aren't being reported today? Welcome to the club.

Question: pretend for a moment that you are the great-great-great-grandson of an African slave imported to America, and you are just trying to live your life in Alabama in the 1930's; will you file a lawsuit against your local police department if they commit an act of police brutality? What if it's something "small" like fining you for jaywalking (when you obviously didn't) or something like that?

If you answer yes, then I might be willing to "bet $100 that you bought Alex Jones original 9/11 'conspiracy theory' evidence," to use your method of emphasis.


The point is: when you have evidence of being abused, you have a case. When you don't have evidence, you generally don't have much of a case. Injuries and so forth can count, as well as eye-witness accounts. But videos don't lie, and there's more and more and more video evidence of it.

Brian4Liberty
04-14-2010, 04:42 PM
Also, I seriously doubt the total number of instances of police brutality is anything near the level of, say, the 1970's, 1950's, 1920's, and so forth. Even moreso when considered on a per capita basis. Granted, the reported cases are up from the previous decade, but that could be attributed to camera video phone ubiquity alone, which has taken place over the same timeframe.

I am in the process of reading an autobiography from a WWII sailor. From what he describes, big cities (NY, SF, etc) were madhouses (at least at night after some drinking). Not much gunfire, but everyone was beating the shit out of other (muggings, service branches against each other, etc), and then the Shore Patrol, MPs, and local Police would come in and continue to beat the shit out of people.

Seems we have become more civilized over the years, at least in terms of constant hand to hand combat in the streets. Then again, maybe not.

BlackTerrel
04-14-2010, 05:02 PM
Damned right. I'm on dialup :( and can't really watch vids. Let me guess - McKenna is a... dare I say it... NEGRO?

Can't tell based on the video. Wouldn't surprise me either way.

Regardless it is fucked up beyond belief.

catdd
04-14-2010, 05:31 PM
Well depending on your definition of "the government's version of 9/11," you may or may not win that bet. (Some people define "the government's version" as absolutely any view other than Alex Jones' Mossad/CIA/nano-thermite bullshit. Others are more precise.) "

The point is: when you have evidence of being abused, you have a case. When you don't have evidence, you generally don't have much of a case. Injuries and so forth can count, as well as eye-witness accounts. But videos don't lie, and there's more and more and more video evidence of it.


I don't understand why you would be concerned with the plight of Blacks in the old South or old NORTH for that matter when we have a major problem like the militarization of our police force happening here and now that is a threat to every race, creed and color of people.
Again, I find it absolutely amazing that in spite of all the links I have shown and all the evidence provided, you still insist that cases of blatant PB haven't risen since 9/11.
I'm 55 years old and I lived through the riots of the 60's and early 70's and except for those instances I have never seen anything like what is happening today.
All the way from tasing old people and pregnant women repeatedly, to handcuffing and arresting children, to beating the daylights out of unruly teenagers.
I think there is a direct link from militarizing the police force to the kind of animalistic abuse we are watching against everyday citizens today and I am going to stick to that belief until someone shows me some real proof to the contrary. Of course this could all be the handiwork of the DHS placing more emphasis on brutal tactics because they are afraid of an uprising but who knows for sure.

And there is some good evidence to support Mossad involvement into 9/11 so calling it bullshit shows a certain amount of closed-mindedness on your part. And as far as the nano-thermite goes... well, it makes more sense than office fires causing the freefall of bldg 7.
And I'm not an AJ fan so that just proves a certain amount of overlap among various people.

TinCanToNA
04-14-2010, 07:50 PM
I think there is a direct link from militarizing the police force to the kind of animalistic abuse we are watching against everyday citizens today and I am going to stick to that belief until someone shows me some real proof to the contrary. Of course this could all be the handiwork of the DHS placing more emphasis on brutal tactics because they are afraid of an uprising but who knows for sure.
I reserve the right to be wrong on this issue, having not spent as much time studying the evidence as I have many other issues. There may indeed be a rise in police brutality; indeed the statistics there is a rise in the number of reported cases.

Even though there is evidence of a correlation between the rise in reported cases of police brutality and the timeline after 9/11, there are many other correlations to consider--the video camera ubiquity case I previously mentioned being among them. Yes, there can be many links to many factors, but I still remain unconvinced that PTSD, vet-hiring, and other such aspects adequately account for any rise in actual incidents of police brutality. If anything, I think the general correlation between all police hiring (i.e. police force size increasing in aggregate) may be among the primary reasons, with vet-hiring being a natural correlary but not necessarily a driving factor. Just things I'm considering; but I guess it's close enough to your point ultimately.

catdd
04-14-2010, 08:20 PM
Thank you.
This was a good conversation.

TinCanToNA
04-14-2010, 09:49 PM
Thank you.
This was a good conversation.

I agree, and thank you :)

Anti Federalist
04-15-2010, 07:40 PM
///

phill4paul
04-15-2010, 07:53 PM
Well I'm not going to argue the militarization of the police force and the role it plays in PB any further but just remember your stance on this issue for future reference. And besides, we are talking about contributing factors here not the absolute cause.
But it amazes me that you don't believe police brutality has increased since 9/11 even with all the documentation. Maybe you have some motive for not believing it such as you don't believe we should have a police force to begin with?

Catdd my understanding of policing forces, the force they have projected and the power that allowed them to project that force is rooted in history.
The abuse of power, in the jurisdiction and time, rivals what is being done today.
Agreed, it seems there is a ramp up. However, the abuse has always been there. Oft times with greater ferocity.
One has only to look at the major cities in late 1800s and early 1900s.
Police forces were created not to "protect and serve" the people but to "protect and serve" the state.
This is not something new or different to our generation.

xd9fan
04-15-2010, 08:38 PM
these fuckers need jail time...not just loss of job but jail time......I hope the criminal and civil suits fly...

phill4paul
04-15-2010, 09:00 PM
these fuckers need jail time...not just loss of job but jail time......I hope the criminal and civil suits fly...

These fuckers need to be outed. These FUCKERS need to be threatened by the members of their community. To have their fuckin' house burned to the ground and family threatened to the point that MOVE from where they are living and adopt a more humble relationship with those that they SHARE a community with.
I'll probably be banned for this view. See ya in a week. But that is what I believe.
If ya disagree than your an apologist. Fuck ya!

tropicangela
04-16-2010, 01:31 PM
This is not something new or different to our generation.

except maybe the riot gear?

tropicangela
04-16-2010, 01:32 PM
Also, regarding the subforum... what I've thought for a while is that we need a free market justice database.
A separate site online, where we can amass data on offenders.
Whenever one of us "gets out of line", it goes in a database, and it has consequences.
I say we do the same to them.

There should be a way for business owners to be able to check online to see if someone is an offender against free market justice.
For instance, If I'm running a Bed and Breakfast, I should be able to check registrations against something online, and if it turns out that it's a cop who beats college students, I should be able to refuse his business.

No reason why we shouldn't be able to make their lives as miserable as we legally can.


i like the layout of the CATO map with sources. http://www.cato.org/raidmap

anyone here up for making one?

tropicangela
04-24-2010, 06:51 PM
Sorry. Meant to say my post #3 here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2640915#post2640915


Always take these numbers with a grain of salt. I think there are about 1.5 million active duty US military. If that's the case then

Total US population 11 per 100,000 suicide
US Military 9 per 100,000 suicide

Which is actually lower than the civilian rate of suicide. Now there are probably some issues here like gender and age that I frankly don't have the time or patience to get into. Either way - it doesn't seem to be more a problem in the military than it does the population at large.

I always try to see the bigger picture of any news story. I don't mistrust the MSM like many here. I take them at their word just like in this story nothing they said is false or a lie (otherwise it would be easy to expose them) rather by not giving you the whole picture they paint a particular agenda.

Thirty try to commit suicide each day, on average, reports the Army Times.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0423/18-veterans-suicide-day/

tremendoustie
04-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Check this site out: http://www.unknownnews.org/cops.html

More than half a dozen stories per day.

It's sickening, really ...

carmaphob
04-25-2010, 12:37 PM
Check this site out: http://www.unknownnews.org/cops.html

More than half a dozen stories per day.

It's sickening, really ...

Very sickening, but a good link. Thanks.

tropicangela
04-28-2010, 10:40 PM
This surveillance video is missing and the plot thickens...

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4170647/missing-police-brutality-video/?playlist_id=86982

John Taylor
07-09-2010, 03:28 PM
Anyone know how this ended up?