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View Full Version : Why we need a third party: to keep the Democrats in power.




MN Patriot
04-07-2010, 08:57 PM
We need a third party spoiler to keep the Democrats in office. My biggest dread this fall is the Republicans will regain a majority in Congress, and win back the presidency in 2012. Why? Because then the Tea Party movement will die out.

You know what I am talking about. Once the Republicans take over the government, war will be cool again, debt and taxes and economic depressions won't matter because at least the Democrats aren't in office. And all the hardships will be blamed on free markets and Republicans, but that's OK with them because the Republicans are controlled opposition for the corporatist Establishment.

We need a third party movement to give people an honest choice, most people are fed up with the old two parties. I am hoping that in 10 years a third party can reverse our nations course into fascism. Does anybody have any confidence in the Republicans to correct things? I sure don't. We need to be seriously discussing the creation of a third party, it is our only hope. The Establishment wants two parties under their control; an honest free market, limited government third party goes against everything they stand for.

DamianTV
04-07-2010, 10:43 PM
I dont have any confidence in the Democrats OR the Tea Party either.

With Sarah Palin and McCain both trying to take over the Tea Party, we end up with the same old rhetoric. I no longer believe that we have any legal recourse against the injustices committed against us all.

TCE
04-07-2010, 10:45 PM
I like the "Run as Republicans in Republican years" and "Run as Democrats in Democratic years." We'll have a nice pro-liberty faction in a couple cycles.

bruce leeroy
04-07-2010, 10:49 PM
on the ann coulter forum, there is a big faction of posters that basically say that voting third party is voting democrat/liberal no matter what.
personally Ive never voted for a mainstream candidate.
I too, share the OP's concern that republican's regaining power soon will lead to a lot of folks getting apathetic again because "at least the dems arent in power"

NYgs23
04-07-2010, 10:51 PM
I do think the worst thing that could happen is Sarah Palin getting elected president in 2012. Watch her do everything Obama's doing but under the guise of "small government conservatism." Unless it's Ron Paul or someone similar waiting in the wings, best to let Obama have a lame duck second term.

lx43
04-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Sadly, I don't see the rise of a third party to challenge the two party system. The Big Govt one party system of the Dems/Repubs have a complete lock on power IMHO.

Live_Free_Or_Die
04-08-2010, 02:29 AM
At least the Democrats have the decency to tell you they are going to fuck you... and then fuck you.

They are also doing a fantastic job at bringing the country into complete and total ruin far quicker than the closet socialist GOP ever will.

I say let the Democrats stay. :)

nobody's_hero
04-08-2010, 03:32 AM
I don't really care which of the two major parties come out on top this November, but then again, I'm getting very angry with the democrats always using that 51% rhetoric to justify EVERYTHING they do:

"We gotz 51% of the votez. Teh American peoplz overwhelmingly elected us to power. Ur just mad because this is a democracy and we got teh most votez. Teh American peoplz has spoken."

I makes me feel like punching someone in the face. Even myself, if it would do any good.

I don't think the Republicans ever danced around people screaming about how "we live in a democracy" and that they could vote to move planet Pluto closer to the sun because they have 50% + 1 of the votes. They still played by majority rules waaaay to much, but I don't recall all the bragging about it.

They certainly weren't mathematically stupid enough to think that 51% means "overwhelming".




'Rock', meet 'hard place.'

MN Patriot
04-08-2010, 04:35 AM
Ouch. :(
I guess most people here support liberty in principle, but aren't going to take action politically to roll back the size of government.

So you are saying Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, and everyone else running for office is wasting everyone's time and money. There is no hope in reducing the size and power of government. When our kids and grandkids are brainwashed Stalinists, and they get a moment of insight into the contradiction of the word "liberty", we will risk another session of re-education by explaining that liberty isn't being enslaved to the government.

dwdollar
04-08-2010, 04:50 AM
I have to admit that some days I just wanna see the whole thing burn. The Democrats are capable of doing that faster. The majority of Americans are idiots and the majority decides who wins elections. We are never going to get freedom back until these idiots are punished or rid from this world. It's time to take out the garbage.

Sorry, I'm very cynical this morning.



...

Stary Hickory
04-08-2010, 06:51 AM
How does one twist one's mind totatally about to say: In order to save ourselves from Statism and big government we need to make sure the biggest statists and big government types are in power.

I mean we talk about infiltration all the time, with this kind of logic being pushed on us here in the forums I begin to wonder.

RM918
04-08-2010, 07:22 AM
How does one twist one's mind totatally about to say: In order to save ourselves from Statism and big government we need to make sure the biggest statists and big government types are in power.

I mean we talk about infiltration all the time, with this kind of logic being pushed on us here in the forums I begin to wonder.

How is throwing your country into panic-ridden financial collapse by supporting wars that don't work 'patriotism'? People are that stupid.

pcosmar
04-08-2010, 07:39 AM
TPTB will not allow choice. They promote the illusion of choice.
When enough people wake up and choose differently they will just cancel elections.

Stary Hickory
04-08-2010, 07:55 AM
How is throwing your country into panic-ridden financial collapse by supporting wars that don't work 'patriotism'? People are that stupid.

So you are now saying that Democrats are what we should elect because they love freedom more? Just trying to ferret exactly what propganda I am being fed here.

I don't think anyone here supports the wars. But let us be very honest about Democrats, they start just as many wars, and historically MORE wars. At the moment however we have socialists and statists in charge of our government. The only reasonable opposition is Republican, thsi movement has a strong foot hold in the Republican party. This movement is gaining ground to a certain extent. We have multiple liberty candidates running on Republican tickets.

Again why should I support Marxists/Statists and throw all the this progress away? It really seems some shady stuff is going down around here.

FreeTraveler
04-08-2010, 08:04 AM
Lysander Spooner had the inside track on the impact of voting.



A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.

TCE
04-08-2010, 04:49 PM
Ouch. :(
I guess most people here support liberty in principle, but aren't going to take action politically to roll back the size of government.

So you are saying Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, and everyone else running for office is wasting everyone's time and money. There is no hope in reducing the size and power of government. When our kids and grandkids are brainwashed Stalinists, and they get a moment of insight into the contradiction of the word "liberty", we will risk another session of re-education by explaining that liberty isn't being enslaved to the government.

A Third Party won't work because of the ballot access laws. It makes no sense for a movement as concentrated and as strapped for cash as we are to run Third Party. It doesn't make us any less freedom oriented, it makes us intelligent individuals.

JK/SEA
04-08-2010, 05:02 PM
I like the 'let it burn' idea. Sort of like the way forest fires are treated now.

Smokey the Bear was a fascist.

.Tom
04-08-2010, 05:06 PM
I have to admit that some days I just wanna see the whole thing burn. The Democrats are capable of doing that faster. The majority of Americans are idiots and the majority decides who wins elections. We are never going to get freedom back until these idiots are punished or rid from this world. It's time to take out the garbage.

Sorry, I'm very cynical this morning.



...

I'm a bit cynical as well, so I'm totally down with letting the whole thing crash and burn. It's inevitable anyway.

About the teabaggers, the vast majority of them are hypocrite neocon goppers who just hate Obama and the Democrats. If the Republicans were back in office, doing the EXACT same things, they would somehow rationalize it as "conservatism".

I've pretty much lost all hope for this country. Sorry but I can't be the only one.

MN Patriot
04-08-2010, 07:43 PM
A Third Party won't work because of the ballot access laws. It makes no sense for a movement as concentrated and as strapped for cash as we are to run Third Party. It doesn't make us any less freedom oriented, it makes us intelligent individuals.

The unintelligent Libertarian Party has had ballot access in all 50 states several times. Yes, it is an obstruction, but so is paying 50-75+% of our income to the government. Eventually there WILL have to be a revolution of some sort. When the government keeps raising taxes to pay for the debt and pensions and increased government employment, will the Republicans have the guts to do what is right? I doubt it, they are part of the problem since they are owned by the Establishment.

I'm just trying to get people to keep an open mind about going third party. With the two old parties, nothing of substance will change.

AuH20
04-08-2010, 07:53 PM
I have to admit that some days I just wanna see the whole thing burn. The Democrats are capable of doing that faster. The majority of Americans are idiots and the majority decides who wins elections. We are never going to get freedom back until these idiots are punished or rid from this world. It's time to take out the garbage.

Sorry, I'm very cynical this morning.



...

I agree with you. The democrats could quickly bring this to a resolution with their insane policies. They could foment a civil war when they expand the welfare state and then turn around and actually INCREASE the tax burden on the beleagured producers of this country. To paraphrase the boys of Spinal Tap, Let's turn the statism knob to 11 and I think the frog will hurdle out of the boiling pot.

AuH20
04-08-2010, 07:56 PM
How does one twist one's mind totatally about to say: In order to save ourselves from Statism and big government we need to make sure the biggest statists and big government types are in power.

I mean we talk about infiltration all the time, with this kind of logic being pushed on us here in the forums I begin to wonder.

You ever heard of the Scared Straight program? ;) People need to see and feel Big Brother unmasked and in all his tyrannical glory. Let the democrats choke on their own power. Sure, it's a calculated risk but we're all headed to the same place, albeit at a much slower pace with the Republicans.

speciallyblend
04-08-2010, 07:57 PM
the typical gop establishment candidate in Colorado will not Win,unless they run Liberty -Minded Candidates. i can't speak for other states!!

Shotdown1027
04-08-2010, 08:12 PM
A Third Party won't work because of the ballot access laws. It makes no sense for a movement as concentrated and as strapped for cash as we are to run Third Party. It doesn't make us any less freedom oriented, it makes us intelligent individuals.

Quite true. However, it is important to do what we can to break these laws WHILE working within the major parties too. That means sueing to overturn ballot access laws (cofoe.org), lobbying against bad ballot access laws (freeandequal.org), staying abreast of the latest news on third parties and independents (IndependentPoliticalReport.com and Ballot-access.org), and--most importantly--voting for third parties when you don't like the other candidates.

I highly suggest everyone visit the above websites and get plugged in. You don't have to BE in a third party to support third parties.

paulitics
04-08-2010, 08:23 PM
I want a republican congress, and a democrat president.

TCE
04-08-2010, 09:26 PM
The unintelligent Libertarian Party has had ballot access in all 50 states several times. Yes, it is an obstruction, but so is paying 50-75+% of our income to the government. Eventually there WILL have to be a revolution of some sort. When the government keeps raising taxes to pay for the debt and pensions and increased government employment, will the Republicans have the guts to do what is right? I doubt it, they are part of the problem since they are owned by the Establishment.

I'm just trying to get people to keep an open mind about going third party. With the two old parties, nothing of substance will change.

Right, then we have to infiltrate that, which is like taking over a a bouquet of flowers after they have all died. Throwing good candidates up in Republican and Democratic primaries and elections will net us wins, going third party will not at the current time. I don't like it, but that is the situation. I vote Third Party more than I vote for Republicans, but I know they'll never win.

Keeping an open mind about voting third party is one thing, but right now, actually running third party candidates is an automatic loss.


Quite true. However, it is important to do what we can to break these laws WHILE working within the major parties too. That means sueing to overturn ballot access laws (cofoe.org), lobbying against bad ballot access laws (freeandequal.org), staying abreast of the latest news on third parties and independents (IndependentPoliticalReport.com and Ballot-access.org), and--most importantly--voting for third parties when you don't like the other candidates.

I highly suggest everyone visit the above websites and get plugged in. You don't have to BE in a third party to support third parties.

Agreed, and I vote Third Party quite often. When I was working for a newspaper, I even wrote a Third Party editorial on why people should vote for Third Parties. However, as you said, they are pretty much unworkable right now, but we can get people elected at the state level to remove these ballot access laws, THEN we can field candidates.

TCE
04-08-2010, 09:27 PM
I want a republican congress, and a democrat president.

Truly you don't, because then in 2012 there will be a Republican President and a very Republican Congress, which will be exactly where we are now. I would like the Republicans to cut into this majority and just keep filibustering everything. That way, in 2 years, the Senate will be tied and nothing will get done, as it should be.

FreeTraveler
04-09-2010, 12:42 PM
We can let the Repubs have it a couple more times and let our kids deal with it, or we can let the Dems do the job faster and deal with the fallout ourselves.

Old Ducker
04-09-2010, 01:59 PM
We need a third party spoiler to keep the Democrats in office. My biggest dread this fall is the Republicans will regain a majority in Congress, and win back the presidency in 2012. Why? Because then the Tea Party movement will die out.

You know what I am talking about. Once the Republicans take over the government, war will be cool again, debt and taxes and economic depressions won't matter because at least the Democrats aren't in office. And all the hardships will be blamed on free markets and Republicans, but that's OK with them because the Republicans are controlled opposition for the corporatist Establishment.

We need a third party movement to give people an honest choice, most people are fed up with the old two parties. I am hoping that in 10 years a third party can reverse our nations course into fascism. Does anybody have any confidence in the Republicans to correct things? I sure don't. We need to be seriously discussing the creation of a third party, it is our only hope. The Establishment wants two parties under their control; an honest free market, limited government third party goes against everything they stand for.

I don't agree. Not because I want the GOP in power, of course but rather I want the GOP to be in power when the economy and empire collapse. The only way to purge it of neocons, imo, is for it to be no longer considered an alternative to the democrats. Perhaps a new party will arise to take it's place.