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Bergie Bergeron
04-05-2010, 08:07 AM
The other thread on WW2 has pretty much been hijacked by sofia. What if Pearl Harbor never happened? Should we have let Hirohito and Japan continue their invasion of China and other Asian countries?

I'm pretty sure someone is going to answer with the Soviets but since the majority thinks we should have let them handle WW2 they couldn't have been everywhere at once.

Elwar
04-05-2010, 09:26 AM
What if the US didn't get involved in WWI? Would WWII have ever happened.

SamuraisWisdom
04-05-2010, 09:32 AM
What if the US didn't get involved in WWI? Would WWII have ever happened.

Probably in some form or another. The only thing we did in that war was tilt the balance in the favor of the British and French. We also had very little to do with the writing of the Treaty of Versailles, so if you want to blame anyone for WWII look at England and France; not to mention the German people for letting Adolph Hitler assume the power that he did.

Had Pearl Harbor never happened we probably would have entered WWII eventually in the same manner that we entered WWI. I just think that PH quickened things up a bit.

ChaosControl
04-05-2010, 09:49 AM
The other thread on WW2 has pretty much been hijacked by sofia. What if Pearl Harbor never happened? Should we have let Hirohito and Japan continue their invasion of China and other Asian countries?

I'm pretty sure someone is going to answer with the Soviets but since the majority thinks we should have let them handle WW2 they couldn't have been everywhere at once.

We should never have forced our way into their country in the late 1800s, which opened it up. Prior to our interventionism they were an isolationist country and very well may have remained such. Their culture may not have been destroyed. Urbanization and westernization has destroyed so many cultures it is ridiculous.

Bergie Bergeron
04-05-2010, 10:21 AM
I know all that but I'm speaking to a neo-con who could be turned and he's asking me about Hirohito.

Elwar
04-05-2010, 10:29 AM
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne.php?articleid=8632
Retribution by Harry Brown
...

In 1917 World War I was winding down to a close. Germany was suing for peace. A negotiated settlement was close, and the world could have returned to its prewar borders and peace. But it was not to be.

At that point Woodrow Wilson took America into the conflict. That intervention changed history irrevocably for the worse. Millions of fresh American soldiers streamed into Europe – tipping the balance of power and overwhelming an enemy exhausted from three years of war. Germany and Austria surrendered, the German emperor fled to the Netherlands, and the Allies imposed devastating conditions upon a defeated Germany.

America's action transformed a functioning Germany with Kaiser Wilhelm on the throne into a prostrate Germany eager for revenge. And so a nation of great artistry that had produced the likes of Goethe and Wagner was willing to accept a dictator who promised to help them get even.

The humanitarian spirit that propelled America into a war to "end all wars" laid the groundwork for two of history's worst murderers – Josef Stalin and Adolf Hitler.

...

MN Patriot
04-05-2010, 11:33 AM
The axis did have plans to invade the USA. Hitler wanted a victory parade in New York City.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/a/ax/axis_plans_for_invasion_of_the_united_states_durin g_wwii.htm


In July 1941, the Fuhrer ordered that planning an attack against the United States be continued. Five months later, on December 11, 1941 Germany declared war on the United States.

Clearly the Japanese and Germans didn't realize the enormous resources the USA had in terms of manpower and natural resources. Some Japanese general said they had awakened a sleeping giant at Pearl Harbor.

ibaghdadi
04-05-2010, 01:03 PM
OK, I'm copying the same reply I gave to the other thread started by AmericaFYeah92:

Allow me to study this from two perspectives.

First is American involvement in World War I. On this link (http://bit.ly/cdbiJT) you'll find a very interesting lecture by John V. Denson on how World War I & II were really one war with an interim in between. You can only understand WWII in context of WWI, especially the way it ended.

Had America not gotten involved in World War I, the Europeans would have tired each other out and sued for peace. Even if Germany lost the war the tougher, longer way, the peace imposed wouldn't have been as brutal as Versailles. The way WWI ended pretty much ENSURED that there was going to be another war, a bigger war. The rise of Hitler can be traced back to Versailles.

Second: Let's ignore the WWI connection and assume that WWII was a "stand-alone" war, and Pearl Harbor never happened - should America get involved? I think the question eventually boils down to this: What is worse, communism or nazism? I personally think that communism is far more insidious. Nazism would have run out of steam - the Third Reich would not have become a global superpower for 70 years and would not "export revolution".

Vessol
04-05-2010, 01:48 PM
The axis did have plans to invade the USA. Hitler wanted a victory parade in New York City.

Clearly the Japanese and Germans didn't realize the enormous resources the USA had in terms of manpower and natural resources. Some Japanese general said they had awakened a sleeping giant at Pearl Harbor.

FYI, that off-quoted "We have awakened the sleeping giant" is from a movie called 'Tora! Tora! Tora!'

And you should at least know who the fictionalized lines came from, Yamamoto.

Also the Japanese had a clear understanding of the resources we had. You make it sound like they were just blundering around and walked into America. Also Germany and Japan were not really allies more then they were a part of the same Anti-Comintern pact, both facing off against the Russians.

Also it should note that we were goading the Japanese for some time.

As the marine hero Smedley Butler wrote in his famous book, "War is a Racket"
'"The Japanese, a proud people, of course will be pleased beyond expression to see the United States fleet so close to Nippon's shores. Even as pleased as would be the residents of California were they to dimly discern through the morning mist, the Japanese fleet playing at war games off Los Angeles."'

Furthermore, there is evidence that Roosevelt, Churchhill and Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands agreed to cut off Dutch oil supplies from Southeast Asia to Japan, being Japan's main provider of petroleum, Japan was not pleased and this could very well have attributed much to their invasion of Southeast Asia(including the Philippines(which we annexed from Spain after the Spanish-American War_ and thus the American pretense there.