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View Full Version : Alan Grayson: Doctor shooing away Obama backers will deny treatment to blacks




bobbyw24
04-04-2010, 01:21 PM
A doctor who posted a sign at his practice asking Obama supporters to seek care "elsewhere" will end up denying service to many African Americans, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) said Friday.

Dr. Jack Cassell, an opponent of the healthcare law President Barack Obama signed last month, put up the sign at his office in Grayson's district.


"Well, in fact, where he lives, in Mount Dora, which is in my district, many, many of the Democrats who live in Mount Dora happen to be African-Americans," Grayson said on CNN. "So, by saying that he will not treat somebody who supported Obama, he's saying that he's not going to treat a large number of African-Americans in the community."


Grayson, a freshman who represents a Republican-leaning district, gained national attention during the healthcare debate last year when he said the GOP's healthcare plan was for seniors to "die quickly."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/90467-rep-grayson-anti-obama-doctor-will-deny-treatment-to-blacks

catdd
04-04-2010, 01:26 PM
...and there is the angle they were searching for.

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 01:27 PM
To oppose the Obama agenda is to be rascist.:rolleyes:

Kotin
04-04-2010, 01:47 PM
grayson can be a real prick somtimes..

TCE
04-04-2010, 02:41 PM
grayson can be a real prick somtimes..

He's good on the Fed, that's it. Not even the war, as he voted for their bloated budget. Hopefully he gets kicked out in November since his work is done.

puppetmaster
04-04-2010, 02:57 PM
so.... maybe they should pay attention to whom they vote into office

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 03:17 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/health/healthcare/la-na-gop-doctor4-2010apr04,0,6717021.story


"I'm not turning anybody away -- that would be unethical," said Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

If any African-Americans are denied treatment, it's because they choose themselves not to get it from this physician.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Sorry guys, but I'm with Grayson on this one.. Unless someone here can explain to me why this is right.

Right now this is my mentality: Would you like to be denied by a doctor because you're a Ron Paul supporter?

Now, I don't feel like they should reign down on him with the heavy hand of Government, but I wouldn't be crying if someone decided to kick his ass.

It's not like this is the same as Ron Paul denying Medicaid. He STILL treated them. He just did it for free. He didn't say "Get the F out of my office you welfare needing socialist!"



"I'm not turning anybody away -- that would be unethical," said Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

So if he put up a sign that just said "No Black People" but still treated those who happened to walk inside and demand treatment, it would be ok?

I think this doctor is just being a smart ass who's directing his anger at the people who live around him when he should instead be trying to educate them.

Maybe leave some Ron Paul pamphlets around the office.. :D

But this type of shit isn't going to win our cause any support.

It's just forcing more people to STAY supporting Obama.

Alienating them to the point that they feel they MUST be right about supporting Obama and his causes.

A lot of good that does.. :rolleyes:

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 03:33 PM
Right now this is my mentality: Would you like to be denied by a doctor because you're a Ron Paul supporter?


Because I am a Ron Paul supporter I would feel the Doctor has the right to treat anyone or exclude anyone he wishes. Including me.;)

Dr.3D
04-04-2010, 03:36 PM
Because I am a Ron Paul supporter I would feel the Doctor has the right to treat anyone or exclude anyone he wishes. Including me.;)

And he isn't excluding anyone. He just said that they can go some place else. He didn't say they had to go some place else.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Either way, what this Doctor is doing is just retarded.

I'm not advocating that what he's doing should be illegal, I'm just saying that it's immoral and I would be fine with someone kicking his ass for being such an idiot.

Putting a sign up at a Doctor's office that says "No Obama Supporters" or whatever is stupid.

If he wants to bring politics into his workplace then he should do something better and try to educate those Obama Zombies.

We're all people, and in fact, this Doctor is doing just what TPTB want him to do. Divide and Conquer. Let the peasants bicker among themselves while they loot the country.

angelatc
04-04-2010, 03:43 PM
Either way, what this doctor is doing is just retarded.


You're entitled to your opinion but I find it refreshing to see a person not afraid of losing business because of his politics.

Dr.3D
04-04-2010, 03:43 PM
Sounds to me like he is just exercising his 1st amendment rights.

angelatc
04-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Somebody needs to hand Grayson his ass for not knowing his district. According to Wikipedia,


"The racial makeup of the city was 75.1% White, 12.3% African American, 0.9% Native American, 3.6% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 5.5% from other races, and 2.4% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 12.5% of the population."

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 03:46 PM
You're entitled to your opinion but I find it refreshing to see a person not afraid of losing business because of his politics.

Me too but I just think he could protest Obama in a better way.

He's likely to suffer some blowback from this too..

Remember, Commerce with ALL. :)

I just feel like there's no need for him to deny "Obama supporters" because it's useless. It would be better for him to try and turn those Obama supporters into Constitutional Conservatives / Libertarians by way of education instead of alienating them through hatred.

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 03:47 PM
Sorry guys, but I'm with Grayson on this one.. Unless someone here can explain to me why this is right.

Right now this is my mentality: Would you like to be denied by a doctor because you're a Ron Paul supporter?

Did you not read my post?

He's not turning anyone away. If they see the sign and still come in, he'll still treat them.

If they see the sign and turn around, that's their own choice.

Bruno
04-04-2010, 03:48 PM
Either way, what this Doctor is doing is just retarded.

I'm not advocating that what he's doing should be illegal, I'm just saying that it's immoral and I would be fine with someone kicking his ass for being such an idiot.

Putting a sign up at a Doctor's office that says "No Obama Supporters" or whatever is stupid.

If he wants to bring politics into his workplace then he should do something better and try to educate those Obama Zombies.

We're all people, and in fact, this Doctor is doing just what TPTB want him to do. Divide and Conquer. Let the peasants bicker among themselves while they loot the country.

So you advocate violence in response to someone doing something you believe is stupid?

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 03:48 PM
Sounds to me like he is just exercising his 1st amendment rights.

I never said what he's doing should be illegal!!

I said it's STUPID.

Yes, we have 1st Amendment rights.

That means that people are FREE to be IDIOTS like THIS GUY.

I fully support that. I just think that when someone uses their free speech to be idiotic like this, they shouldn't be surprised when someone decides to walk up and punch them in the face.

angelatc
04-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Me too but I just think he could protest Obama in a better way.

He's likely to suffer some blowback from this too..

Remember, Commerce with ALL. :)

.

No way. He probably just cut down his chances of being sued by chasing away the non-working class.

Dr.3D
04-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Did you not read my post?

He's not turning anyone away. If they see the sign and still come in, he'll still treat them.

If they see the sign and turn around, that's their own choice.

And chances are, if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway. ;)

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 03:49 PM
So you advocate violence in response to someone doing something you believe is stupid?

NO!!!!!

I am saying I wouldn't be upset if someone DECIDED to use violence against him.

Kind of like how this Doctor says "Hey, I put a sign up that says no Obama supporters! But that doesn't mean I'm turning anyone away!!!"

pcosmar
04-04-2010, 03:50 PM
Either way, what this Doctor is doing is just retarded.
.

How so? Many will be retiring from the profession because they are unable to make a living.
More patients and less doctors will mean a gross reduction in quality care.

How is he retarded for being Honest.
People who voted for Obama just fucked themselves. And the rest of us.
:(

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 03:50 PM
And chances are, if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway. ;)

That's not funny, dude.

Shit like this is why we get labeled as racists.

Knock it the fuck off.

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 03:51 PM
Either way, what this Doctor is doing is just retarded.

I'm not advocating that what he's doing should be illegal, I'm just saying that it's immoral and I would be fine with someone kicking his ass for being such an idiot.

Putting a sign up at a Doctor's office that says "No Obama Supporters" or whatever is stupid.

If he wants to bring politics into his workplace then he should do something better and try to educate those Obama Zombies.

We're all people, and in fact, this Doctor is doing just what TPTB want him to do. Divide and Conquer. Let the peasants bicker among themselves while they loot the country.

Obama supporters encourage a law that will make it illegal for doctors to contract with a patient in their own terms. It's a violation of their rights. And you want them to just shut up and attend them? The logical extension of your reasoning is this: if someone attempted to kill a doctor, but failed, once he is out of jail, the doctor SHOULD NOT be able to refuse him That's not right.

The Obama supporters started the aggression. They support this bill, which is an aggression against doctors. Doctors should not have to heal their aggressors.

angelatc
04-04-2010, 03:51 PM
That's not funny, dude.

Shit like this is why we get labeled as racists.

Knock it the fuck off.

I thought it was funny.

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 03:52 PM
NO!!!!!

I am saying I wouldn't be upset if someone DECIDED to use violence against him.

Kind of like how this Doctor says "Hey, I put a sign up that says no Obama supporters! But that doesn't mean I'm turning anyone away!!!"

I will not be upset if someone decided to use violence against you.

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 03:54 PM
I'm not advocating that what he's doing should be illegal, I'm just saying that it's immoral and I would be fine with someone kicking his ass for being such an idiot.


Here we go with the "immoral" argument again. And you believe it is alright to physically assault some one for exercising their rights of "freedom of expression?" I don't even know where to begin, or to be more poignant , whether it is worth my time.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 03:54 PM
How so? Many will be retiring from the profession because they are unable to make a living.
More patients and less doctors will mean a gross reduction in quality care.

How is he retarded for being Honest.
:(

I understand what you're saying, I'm a member of these forums too!!

I just think that this is a dumb way to lash out and it's not going to get ANYONE to join our cause.

If the Doctor is so mad, why doesn't he retire in protest like the others?

OR why doesn't he try to educate the people of his area about WHY they were WRONG to support Obama, and WHY they need to start thinking DIFFERENT?

His method of putting a sign up that says "No Obama Supporters" is just dumb, it COMPLETELY send the wrong message to people who don't understand it, and it's NOT HELPING OUR CAUSE ONE BIT!

Just look, ONCE AGAIN, because of THIS GUY, people who protest Obama or his policies are labeled RACIST!

THAT is why I don't support this guy's reasoning.

Dr.3D
04-04-2010, 03:55 PM
That's not funny, dude.

Shit like this is why we get labeled as racists.

Knock it the fuck off.

So are you implying that only one certain race was stupid enough to vote for Obama? I always thought people from the human race (any ethnic background) voted for Obama.

pcosmar
04-04-2010, 03:56 PM
If the Doctor is so mad, why doesn't he retire in protest like the others?


He likely will.
Is it wrong to verbally protest in the mean time?

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Riley, let me ask you a question:

Suppose someone attempted to kill a doctor but failed and showed no regret. Now suppose the aggressor is out of jail. Would the doctor be right in trying to refuse him?

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 03:57 PM
That's not funny, dude.

Shit like this is why we get labeled as racists.

Knock it the fuck off.

See now your being the collectivist. I know many "whites" that voted for Obama that probably couldn't read that sign either. And by "read" I think it means "read into it."

Bruno
04-04-2010, 04:00 PM
I understand what you're saying, I'm a member of these forums too!!

I just think that this is a dumb way to lash out and it's not going to get ANYONE to join our cause.

If the Doctor is so mad, why doesn't he retire in protest like the others?

OR why doesn't he try to educate the people of his area about WHY they were WRONG to support Obama, and WHY they need to start thinking DIFFERENT?

His method of putting a sign up that says "No Obama Supporters" is just dumb, it COMPLETELY send the wrong message to people who don't understand it, and it's NOT HELPING OUR CAUSE ONE BIT!

Just look, ONCE AGAIN, because of THIS GUY, people who protest Obama or his policies are labeled RACIST!

THAT is why I don't support this guy's reasoning and I'd be fine with someone kicking his ass for exercising his opinon in a different way that I would have done.

Mine in bold, but I think that's what you're saying here.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 04:00 PM
Here we go with the "immoral" argument again. And you believe it is alright to physically assault some one for exercising their rights of "freedom of expression?" I don't even know where to begin, or to be more poignant , whether it is worth my time.

If a KKK guy was marching down the street saying shit about Filipinos then I would probably throw a rock or tomato at him just for shits and giggles. I wouldn't call the cops or anything.

Go ahead, say what you will, but I could care less. There's a lot of more important things going on in this country than "racism". What the Doctor in this story did is just another example of crap that the news reports on to keep the little peons of this country arguing amongst each other while the bigger issues are never settled.

My MAIN opinion on this issue is that the Doctor could use better methods, such as educating the people who come to his office, instead of trying to alienate them.

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 04:02 PM
So are you implying that only one certain race was stupid enough to vote for Obama? I always thought people from the human race (any ethnic background) voted for Obama.


See now your being the collectivist. I know many "whites" that voted for Obama that probably couldn't read that sign either. And by "read" I think it means "read into it."

:rolleyes:

I'm simply asking you refrain from giving the left-liberals any ammunition.

Or are you seriously that oblivious to how they would take that "joke" and turn it against us all?

Understand how they think and act accordingly to as not give them talking points.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 04:03 PM
Mine in bold, but I think that's what you're saying here.

Wrong.

I'm sorry for starting such a huge argument guys, but really all I mainly feel is that the Doctor could have tried to educate these "Obama supporters" instead of just posting a sign making them think they can't get service there.

Now what he's done has caused a huge commotion with the MSM and just leading to more references that people who don't support Obama or his polices are racist.

That's one thing that pisses me off the most about this.

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 04:03 PM
My MAIN opinion on this issue is that the Doctor could use better methods, such as educating the people who come to his office, instead of trying to alienate them.

He is educating them. Once you get into his office he has fliers that explain how bad is ObamaCare. This Doctor is an example to all other Doctors. If all doctors had his courage, the health care crap would be repealed quickly.

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 04:04 PM
If a KKK guy was marching down the street saying shit about Filipinos then I would probably throw a rock or tomato at him just for shits and giggles. I wouldn't call the cops or anything.

Go ahead, say what you will, but I could care less. There's a lot of more important things going on in this country than "racism". What the Doctor in this story did is just another example of crap that the news reports on to keep the little peons of this country arguing amongst each other while the bigger issues are never settled.

My MAIN opinion on this issue is that the Doctor could use better methods, such as educating the people who come to his office, instead of trying to alienate them.

OK so a doctor putting a letter in the window is bad for the "cause" but throwing tomatoes or rocks would help immensely. The doctor did what he felt he could. Should he have quit his occupation in protest? That's fuckin' laughable. As are you.

Bruno
04-04-2010, 04:08 PM
Wrong.

I'm sorry for starting such a huge argument guys, but really all I mainly feel is that the Doctor could have tried to educate these "Obama supporters" instead of just posting a sign making them think they can't get service there.

Understood. :)

He probably wouldn't get as much publicity though, although who knows at this point if that is what was seeking. He and the story got it anyway. He may be getting called a racist by some, which some already do to anyone who speaks out against Obama anyway. But others are applauding the Atlas-shrugged style of his sign.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 04:10 PM
He is educating them. Once you get into his office he has fliers that explain how bad is ObamaCare.

Ok, let me ask you this Einstein, how are the Obama supporters going to see his fliers explaining how bad ObamaCare is when before they get inside the office there's a sign saying "No Obama Supporters!" ?? I'd guess at least 90% of them don't even bother going in the office, so how the hell would they see the fliers?



OK so a doctor putting a letter in the window is bad for the "cause" but throwing tomatoes or rocks would help immensely. The doctor did what he felt he could. Should he have quit his occupation in protest? That's fuckin' laughable. As are you.

If I threw a rock or tomato at a KKK member I'd probably be portrayed as a hero by the MSM.. :rolleyes:


My opinion is the doctor putting the sign up is stupid. He should instead try to educate Obama supporters. LPG says he has fliers inside explaining. Well then if the Doctor wants Obama supporters to see those fliers, he should remove the freaking sign telling them not to come in. :rolleyes:

Go ahead and call me "laughable". I'm so hurt.. :)

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 04:15 PM
Ok, let me ask you this Einstein, how are the Obama supporters going to see his fliers explaining how bad ObamaCare is when before they get inside the office there's a sign saying "No Obama Supporters!" ?? I'd guess at least 90% of them don't even bother going in the office, so how the hell would they see the fliers?

There were 3 complaints so far. All other patients who get the fliers get ammunition to convince their friends that health care is wrong.

In the long term, health care will create rationing and long lines, and people won't be able to see a doctor when they want it, whether or not they support Obama. This doctor is just showing in advance what will happen in the future. He is doing a great service.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 04:16 PM
This is the last post I'm making in this thread...

Anyways,

1) I think the Doctor should have just stuck with educating Obama supporters instead of posting a sign telling them not to come in.

2) I do not think what he's doing should be illegal even though I don't agree with it - As I said, I wouldn't be crying if someone decided to take it out on him because they don't understand that it's his 1st Amendment right to do so. All I'm saying is that's the possible Blowback he might get for doing so. Do I agree with it? Ehhhh. PERSONALLY, I would not pursue violence against him.

3) AND I DO retract my statement about throwing things at KKK members. :p I was just caught up in the moment and picturing myself chasing a bunch of white suits down the street throwing stuff at them. :) Sorry for that. I know Ron preaches non-violence, so I'll comply. :D So there's my formal apology Phil. :)

I understand what you guys who are in support of this doctor are saying. I just feel like it doesn't help our cause, especially with the MSM.

So now that that's all cleared up, have a good day everyone! :)

Dr.3D
04-04-2010, 04:17 PM
:rolleyes:

I'm simply asking you refrain from giving the left-liberals any ammunition.

Or are you seriously that oblivious to how they would take that "joke" and turn it against us all?

Understand how they think and act accordingly to as not give them talking points.

Don't they work hard to turn anything we say against us? The racism card is worn out and shouldn't be a problem anymore.

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 04:18 PM
Riley, before you go, please answer this:

Suppose someone attempted to kill a doctor but failed and showed no regret. Now suppose the aggressor is out of jail. Would the doctor be right in trying to refuse him?

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 04:22 PM
Riley, before you go, please answer this:

Suppose someone attempted to kill a doctor but failed and showed no regret. Now suppose the aggressor is out of jail. Would the doctor be right in trying to refuse him?

If Obama was about to fall off a cliff, would you save him?

I think that's more of a moral question than a policy one.. (nor sure which you are asking)

But I think it would take a very professionally-dedicated and serious doctor to treat someone that tried to kill them.

If you don't get what I mean, then just say and I'll try to better word my response..

low preference guy
04-04-2010, 04:24 PM
If Obama was about to fall off a cliff, would you save him?

I think that's more of a moral question than a policy one.. (nor sure which you are asking)

But I think it would take a very professionally-dedicated and serious doctor to treat someone that tried to kill them.

If you don't get what I mean, then just say and I'll try to better word my response..

I asked a simple yes or no question. Would a doctor be right in openly trying to refuse to attend someone who tried to kill him?

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 04:29 PM
Ok, let me ask you this Einstein, how are the Obama supporters going to see his fliers explaining how bad ObamaCare is when before they get inside the office there's a sign saying "No Obama Supporters!" ?? I'd guess at least 90% of them don't even bother going in the office, so how the hell would they see the fliers?

I'm sure that's not really his point. I'm sure he doesn't give a good god damn about whether he could change any Obama supporters to see his point because you can't. People that want something for free aren't gonna give a shit. He was merely expressing his outrage. Which is well within his rights.

Go ahead and shit in one hand and list the number of welfare recipients that believe that healthcare is a "right" that you can convert with reasoning in the other and tell me which one fills up first.:rolleyes:



If I threw a rock or tomato at a KKK member I'd probably be portrayed as a hero by the MSM.. :rolleyes:

My point was that your upset about someone putting up a flier in their window expressing discontent, but you'd be willing to throw tomatoes and rocks. Not about how it would be percieved by the MSM.



My opinion is the doctor putting the sign up is stupid. He should instead try to educate Obama supporters.

Shit in one hand.....


LPG says he has fliers inside explaining. Well then if the Doctor wants Obama supporters to see those fliers, he should remove the freaking sign telling them not to come in. :rolleyes:

While intellectually dishonest I'd say he was just covering his ass.

RileyE104
04-04-2010, 04:30 PM
I asked a simple yes or no question. Would a doctor be right in openly trying to refuse to attend someone who tried to kill him?

Yes, and I never said that it wasn't his right to DENY Obama Supporters, I just said I don't agree with it. I haven't made a single statement saying it shouldn't be allowed.

Juan McCain
04-04-2010, 04:31 PM
Great - let the doctors have the final say in who gets health care - not the government.

So, Obama supporters already can feel the decrease in health care availability that they will bring on the nation.

ctiger2
04-04-2010, 04:34 PM
And he isn't excluding anyone. He just said that they can go some place else. He didn't say they had to go some place else.

+1

MelissaWV
04-04-2010, 04:34 PM
The sign does not say "No Obama Supporters," and I think people are stupidly forgetting that this isn't a coffee shop or a shoe store or some other establishment you just pick as you're wandering down the street. You make appointments to go to the doctor. You use your brain when you see a sign like this, right?

"Hmm that's odd. I have an appointment but this sign says I'm to seek treatment elsewhere because I voted for Obama... I'd better call and find out what's going on!"

This doctor has allegedly had pamphlets and materials in his office for awhile before the sign went up, so why would it astonish people so very much?

Did it even cross anyone's mind how the doctor would know you were an "Obama supporter"? I doubt it's on the sign-in sheet, and I certainly don't think he got your voting record with your medical records. Does that cross anyone's mind? Nope. They leapt to conclusions, and I'm guessing that those doing the leaping are seeing dollar signs as they do it.

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 04:44 PM
Don't they work hard to turn anything we say against us? The racism card is worn out and shouldn't be a problem anymore.

It's not your perception of how "worn out" the race card is that matters.

It's the perception of the people whom we are trying to reach, and that card still has some resonance with them.

GunnyFreedom
04-04-2010, 04:45 PM
Because I am a Ron Paul supporter I would feel the Doctor has the right to treat anyone or exclude anyone he wishes. Including me.;)

THIS. x 1,000,000

The doctor is NOT a slave! The doctor owns his own body, and nobody else owns it. The doctor should be free to damn well see whom he pleases without any jacked up political correctness interfering. :mad:

RM918
04-04-2010, 04:46 PM
Either way, what this Doctor is doing is just retarded.

I'm not advocating that what he's doing should be illegal, I'm just saying that it's immoral and I would be fine with someone kicking his ass for being such an idiot.

Putting a sign up at a Doctor's office that says "No Obama Supporters" or whatever is stupid.

If he wants to bring politics into his workplace then he should do something better and try to educate those Obama Zombies.

We're all people, and in fact, this Doctor is doing just what TPTB want him to do. Divide and Conquer. Let the peasants bicker among themselves while they loot the country.

So this guy deserves to be assaulted because of his political views?

Why are you here?

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 04:56 PM
It's not your perception of how "worn out" the race card is that matters.

It's the perception of the people whom we are trying to reach, and that card still has some resonance with them.

Then quit giving the race card legs. He didn't have a sign that said "No Niggaz will be served here."

I don't know which "people" you are trying to reach but those that support Obama and believe that health care is a right are a "people" that you don't stand a hope in hell of getting through to.

Andrew-Austin
04-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Outrageous! If he "denied" whites that would be okay, but blacks!!! How horrible!

lol

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 05:08 PM
Then quit giving the race card legs. He didn't have a sign that said "No Niggaz will be served here."

I don't know which "people" you are trying to reach but those that support Obama and believe that health care is a right are a "people" that you don't stand a hope in hell of getting through to.

You just don't get it, do you?

It's not me who gives it legs. It's the people who we are trying to reach that give it legs.

As such, we should avoid doing anything that would allow those who give it legs to view us in any fraction of a light that corresponds to how our opponents would like to characterize us.

I'm after the people who will listen to us and give us their consideration. However, because they are keeping their minds open, they are also listening to the other side as well. We are competing for the minds of these people, and the opposition knows that if they can portray us a racists in any possible way, it will damage us.

Which is why we need not go about providing anything which the left can twist to their benefit.

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 05:46 PM
You just don't get it, do you?

It's not me who gives it legs. It's the people who we are trying to reach that give it legs.

As such, we should avoid doing anything that would allow those who give it legs to view us in any fraction of a light that corresponds to how our opponents would like to characterize us.

I'm after the people who will listen to us and give us their consideration. However, because they are keeping their minds open, they are also listening to the other side as well. We are competing for the minds of these people, and the opposition knows that if they can portray us a racists in any possible way, it will damage us.

Which is why we need not go about providing anything which the left can twist to their benefit.

Naw, I just don't "get it."

Because they, the MSM/Mockingbird media, portray any individual reaction to a administrations policies as kooky, moon-bat, anti-'merican and downright rascist we should cease to protest and "appear" to be mainstream in the hopes of converting the "mainstream" to act differently by becoming as them?

Naw, I just don't "get it.":rolleyes:

GunnyFreedom
04-04-2010, 06:19 PM
If we ever want to become a post-racial society, I'm not sure that promulgating an assumption that "all black people voted for Obama" is likely to help. I know for a point of fact that it's not true, of course. Most of the humans with high melanin content that I know travel in my political circle and decidedly did NOT vote for Obama.

angelatc
04-04-2010, 06:26 PM
It's not your perception of how "worn out" the race card is that matters.

It's the perception of the people whom we are trying to reach, and that card still has some resonance with them.

Then they're pretty much unreachable.

You're aware that they also don't like it when we say we want to privatize social security? That we think the fed government should be limited in power ? That the civil war wasn't about slavery?

Maybe we shouldn't talk about how wrong the war is either, since that tends to isolate the right.

puppetmaster
04-04-2010, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
And chances are, if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway.


That's not funny, dude.

Shit like this is why we get labeled as racists.

Knock it the fuck off.


actually idiot...your comment had more racial undertones than the one you quoted.
Your implying by your verbiage that all obama supporters are black and can't read.:rolleyes:

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 06:43 PM
Then they're pretty much unreachable.

You're aware that they also don't like it when we say we want to privatize social security? That we think the fed government should be limited in power ? That the civil war wasn't about slavery?

Maybe we shouldn't talk about how wrong the war is either, since that tends to isolate the right.

I'm at a pretty left-liberal university, and I can talk to people here, and it works for the moderates (i.e., the demographic we want to and can reach) until crap like this happens.

You guys keep shooting everyone in the foot all you want, though.

Let me know how that works out. ;)

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
And chances are, if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway.




actually idiot...your comment had more racial undertones than the one you quoted.
Your implying by your verbiage that all obama supporters are black and can't read.:rolleyes:

That's exactly what I got out of it.:)

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
And chances are, if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway.

actually idiot...your comment had more racial undertones than the one you quoted.
Your implying by your verbiage that all obama supporters are black and can't read.:rolleyes:

It wasn't my reaction. It's the reaction I typically get from the moderates.

Maybe you should get out and talk to some of them, hmm?

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 06:46 PM
That's exactly what I got out of it.:)

And I chalk that up to confirmation bias (http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html).

puppetmaster
04-04-2010, 08:06 PM
It wasn't my reaction. It's the reaction I typically get from the moderates.

Maybe you should get out and talk to some of them, hmm?


ok foo no worries here, we all attack the monster in our own ways. the people I talk to that are mods listen to what I have to say and usually do not consider Ron Paul People racist. They understand when I'm done with them that we are all in the same boat together

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 08:13 PM
It wasn't my reaction. It's the reaction I typically get from the moderates.


And I chalk that up to confirmation bias (http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html).

Maybe the two are equated in your writings that I pointed out and quoted.

foofighter20x
04-04-2010, 08:28 PM
Maybe the two are equated in your writings that I pointed out and quoted.

No. More like it's an unwillingness on the part of some to be sensitive to the views of the very people we are trying to win over. It's the arrogance of those types that if they moderates don't get it right away that those moderates are somehow mentally deficient.

There's a lot of faulty conventional wisdom that's been offered to these folks, and upon which they've come to rely, that we have to disprove first. If they sense even in the slightest that we are associated with what's portrayed as racial bigotry, they are that much less likely to hear us out to even get them out of their conventional-wisdom shell.

It doesn't help when some among us do something that the left can brandish as "evidence" of racial intolerance on our part. People who would willingly listen to us become less inclined to do so in those instance, which doesn't help us out at all.

So instead of alienating those fine folks before we even get the chance to talk to them, maybe we ought to police ourselves and work-on maintaining an image that is unassailable on racial grounds.

Telling jokes as told above don't help in that process.

This is about improving our own brand, and not stomping the toes of the very "customers" of whom we are seeking support.

phill4paul
04-04-2010, 08:43 PM
No. More like it's an unwillingness on the part of some to be sensitive to the views of the very people we are trying to win over. It's the arrogance of those types that if they moderates don't get it right away that those moderates are somehow mentally deficient.

There's a lot of faulty conventional wisdom that's been offered to these folks, and upon which they've come to rely, that we have to disprove first. If they sense even in the slightest that we are associated with what's portrayed as racial bigotry, they are that much less likely to hear us out to even get them out of their conventional-wisdom shell.

It doesn't help when some among us do something that the left can brandish as "evidence" of racial intolerance on our part. People who would willingly listen to us become less inclined to do so in those instance, which doesn't help us out at all.

So instead of alienating those fine folks before we even get the chance to talk to them, maybe we ought to police ourselves and work-on maintaining an image that is unassailable on racial grounds.

Telling jokes as told above don't help in that process.

This is about improving our own brand, and not stomping the toes of the very "customers" of whom we are seeking support.

Working on an image that is "unassailable on racial grounds" is conceding that the "image" is refutable.
I don't believe in intellectual dishonesty to procure political gain.
The Doctor did not post a sign that read "Niggaz go away."
Even if he had, then as a liberty supporter you yourself would admit that he has that right.
And if ya'd been born with a half set of nuts ya'd support it instead of postulating that those who cherish liberty should instead become "metro-sexual" sycophants because it is politically expedient.

tmosley
04-04-2010, 08:49 PM
Hey, I can make outrageous accusations about people's future behaviors too! Alan Grayson will end up raping children in his gay sex dungeon.

qh4dotcom
04-04-2010, 09:49 PM
Understood. :)

He probably wouldn't get as much publicity though, although who knows at this point if that is what was seeking. He and the story got it anyway.

He's got a facebook page with 900 fans now

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Jack-Cassell-fan-page/101316729910782?ref=ts

AmericaFyeah92
04-04-2010, 09:51 PM
And chances are, if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway. ;)

Best post yet :D

qh4dotcom
04-04-2010, 09:54 PM
If we ever want to become a post-racial society, I'm not sure that promulgating an assumption that "all black people voted for Obama" is likely to help. I know for a point of fact that it's not true, of course. Most of the humans with high melanin content that I know travel in my political circle and decidedly did NOT vote for Obama.

Well according to a CNN exit poll 96% of them did.

angelatc
04-04-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm at a pretty left-liberal university, and I can talk to people here, and it works for the moderates (i.e., the demographic we want to and can reach) until crap like this happens.

You guys keep shooting everyone in the foot all you want, though.

Let me know how that works out. ;)

I'm sure it works about as well as talking to people one at a time.

Live_Free_Or_Die
04-04-2010, 10:50 PM
I see the Magic Pixie Dust is not in danger of losing it's magical properties anytime soon.

Eternal vigilance is about holding steadfast to principles not what other people think and sure as hell not what the MSM thinks.

foofighter20x
04-05-2010, 12:33 AM
Working on an image that is "unassailable on racial grounds" is conceding that the "image" is refutable.
I don't believe in intellectual dishonesty to procure political gain.
The Doctor did not post a sign that read "Niggaz go away."
Even if he had, then as a liberty supporter you yourself would admit that he has that right.
And if ya'd been born with a half set of nuts ya'd support it instead of postulating that those who cherish liberty should instead become "metro-sexual" sycophants because it is politically expedient.

Wow. You thought this whole discussion was simply about the sign on the doc's door?

Hahahahaha! Stop. Go back. Reread the entire thread since you've obviously got the completely incorrect idea about what we are discussing.

The discussion as regarding my inputs concern the statement made by one poster of "if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway."

I objected to such a statement as it will be used to call us racists. (While I'm sure the poster meant no harm, such sweeping generalizations ought to be avoided when 95% of blacks (http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/exit-polls.html) voted for Obama.)

I don't see how I'm being intellectually dishonest when I'm telling you exactly what the left will do with a statement like that in order to alienate moderates from the liberty movement.

I don't care about the sign on the door. I care about the recklessly stupid comment to I objected.

Your last assumption in you comment shows you have complete misconceived the topic of our discussion.

Get back to me once you've removed that large foot from your mouth.

MGreen
04-05-2010, 01:06 AM
The drug war disproportionally affects the black population. So, by saying they will wage war against those who sell or "intend to sell" drugs, the federal government is saying they will wage war against a large number of African-Americans in the country.

Seems like a bigger issue than a doctor asking some of his customers to look elsewhere for service.

foofighter20x
04-05-2010, 01:14 AM
The drug war disproportionally affects the black population. So, by saying they will wage war against those who sell or "intend to sell" drugs, the federal government is saying they will wage war against a large number of African-Americans in the country.

Seems like a bigger issue than a doctor asking some of his customers to look elsewhere for service.

Not to mention that, when combined with local felon disfranchisement statutes, the War on Drugs is the number one method by which government takes away the right of blacks to vote.

TastyWheat
04-05-2010, 01:23 AM
grayson can be a real prick somtimes..
Yeah, well, only when he talks.

nobody's_hero
04-05-2010, 05:41 AM
I see the Magic Pixie Dust is not in danger of losing it's magical properties anytime soon.

Eternal vigilance is about holding steadfast to principles not what other people think and sure as hell not what the MSM thinks.

ur scarin away teh moderatez! :rolleyes:

phill4paul
04-05-2010, 03:52 PM
Wow. You thought this whole discussion was simply about the sign on the doc's door?

Hahahahaha! Stop. Go back. Reread the entire thread since you've obviously got the completely incorrect idea about what we are discussing.

The discussion as regarding my inputs concern the statement made by one poster of "if they voted for Obama, they won't be able to read the sign anyway."

I objected to such a statement as it will be used to call us racists. (While I'm sure the poster meant no harm, such sweeping generalizations ought to be avoided when 95% of blacks (http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/exit-polls.html) voted for Obama.)

I don't see how I'm being intellectually dishonest when I'm telling you exactly what the left will do with a statement like that in order to alienate moderates from the liberty movement.

I don't care about the sign on the door. I care about the recklessly stupid comment to I objected.

Your last assumption in you comment shows you have complete misconceived the topic of our discussion.

Get back to me once you've removed that large foot from your mouth.

I'm well aware of how this thread started. I was in it from the beginning.

I've made the point that it does not matter what we say or do we will be called rascists anyways. Did you read my first quote? Have you not seen the rascist card played through out this health care agenda debate? Without proof the accusations of rascism and sexual orientation deragotory comments are being foisted on those that oppose regardless of whether anything was actually said.

I'm saying that your being intellectually dishonest playing their game. You still hold that we need to appear and act politically correct to win over more moderates. My point is it doesn't matter and regardless of whether they could use a quote on RPFs to label us rascist they are doing it anyway. You play their game to change their game. Thus becoming one of them.

There was nothing wrong with the thread that started this debate. Merely your interpretation of it.

wizardwatson
04-05-2010, 04:17 PM
This thread is full of retarded white liberal guilt.

First lets define...

Racism:the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

I didn't see anything in this thread that fits that definition. The post foofighter is complaining about was a jab at the lack of education of Obama supporters. This isn't racist, its true partially, that's why its funny.

The idea that we should pander to insecurities about race is plain retarded. What are you scared of?

The fact is that Obama's election hinged on racial insecurities and "white liberal guilt". I didn't say this, you know who said that, D.L. Hughley on CNN.

I have no qualms about referring to our puppet President as "Chocolate Jesus" because I WANT to take a jab at everyone that voted for him because they felt that it was an exercise in "social justice" to have a black man in the oval office, both black and white and mexican and whatever other color/creed/religion person voted for this sham of a President.

This isn't about "racism" but it is about "racial insecurities". People want to believe that they are poor because of "racism" or whatever but it isn't the truth.

You know who was racist? Thomas Jefferson was racist. He "actually believed" black people were inferior.

What we have now is not "racism", its "racism paranoia". People need to get over it and realize its a freakin' political ploy.

foofighter20x
04-07-2010, 08:41 AM
Look. I agree with you on your definition of what racism actually is. But we here have already figured that out.

What's apparently lost on the part of both of you is that is ISN'T our perception of what racism is that matters. What matters is how and what the people we are trying to reach out to perceive and deem as racist. And the both of you are feeding right into that perception with this.

I KNOW that neither of you condone racism nor implied anything racist in your comments. I know that as we define racism, there's nothing in your statements that is racist.

However, when you are trying to sell you ideas, just like when you are trying to sell a commodity on the market, it's not what YOU know about your product that matters. It's what they customer believes about your product.

My point is that your actions here play right into that perception. Is it right or fair or correct that they view us that way? Hardly. But it's still a perception we should do everything we can to avoid. And that's why the joke about illiteracy is no help to anyone here and only serves to embarrass us all in their eyes.


But, you guys just go ahead and keep making it harder on yourselves out there.

When we never get anywhere, don't beat yourself up trying to figure out why.

Good luck with that.