Worthy cause -- support civil disobedience

[tremendoustie]

http://cdevolution.org/

I believe this fund will give activists a lot of bang for their buck. I just chipped in $50.

Clarification update (4/2/10): The current fund raising goal is to pay for legal defense of "sovereign curtis", who was recently arrested in Nashua, NH, for "distribution" of pot (he allegedly handed an undercover cop a pot cigarette) -- a felony, believe it or not.

Here are a couple videos of the initial event, the day before:

YouTube - Nashua Police Attack Freedom Celebration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtM673w3Y-o&feature=player_embedded)

YouTube - Police in Nashua NH Arrest Peaceful 420 Celebrants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTkulm5U_7k&feature=player_embedded)


And of curtis' arrest:

http://qik.com/video/5646931

Note that the cops refuse to identify themselves.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I see our organizational skills haven't evolved.

[wizardwatson]

It costs money "not" to do stuff?

[tremendoustie]

I see our organizational skills haven't evolved.

:confused:



It costs money "not" to do stuff?

This fund pays for expenses incurred while doing civil disobedience, for example, it was recently used to pay a $3000 bail for one activist, and has been used for commissary accounts. The intent is to grow it into a fund that could launch numerous civil suits against government malpractice, and challenge the constitutionality of laws, as well as to provide legal coverage for those who want it, while dealing with the state.

There has been discussion of taking on a full time attorney, if funds permit.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

:confused:



This fund pays for expenses incurred while doing civil disobedience, for example, it was recently used to pay a $3000 bail for one activist, and has been used for commissary accounts. The intent is to grow it into a fund that could launch numerous civil suits against government malpractice, and challenge the constitutionality of laws, as well as to provide legal coverage for those who want it, while dealing with the state.

There has been discussion of taking on a full time attorney, if funds permit.

Rather than be civil disobedient so we can hire a lawyer to fight lawyers, I'm for not using any lawyers to the extent that we can buy used cars from them.

[silus]

The effectiveness of civil disobedience is based on the willingness of people to sacrifice at the most basic human level. Outsourcing a cost of civil disobedience is totally the wrong way to go, imo.

[tremendoustie]

The effectiveness of civil disobedience is based on the willingness of people to sacrifice at the most basic human level. Outsourcing a cost of civil disobedience is totally the wrong way to go, imo.

I agree to an extent -- and there are lots of people just doing civil disobedience, most of whom don't use anything from the fund, even for commissary.

Really, this isn't civil disobedience funding, per-se, it's more like court activism based on civil disobedience.

I think if there were civil lawsuits launched every time they took aggressive action, it would make them think twice. Fear of liability, and rear-covering in general, is a major motivator in bureaucracies.

[tremendoustie]

Rather than be civil disobedient so we can hire a lawyer to fight lawyers, I'm for not using any lawyers to the extent that we can buy used cars from them.

I hear you. I do think court activism can be effective, though -- along with jury nullification, traditional civil disobedience, political activism, education, etc.

And the people who would be bringing these cases are liberty minded individuals, who'd be working at a deep discount.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

:confused:

I will make another audio (not that anyone listens to my audio's) and spell it out. It is nothing I haven't mentioned or suggested before.

[wizardwatson]

:confused:



This fund pays for expenses incurred while doing civil disobedience, for example, it was recently used to pay a $3000 bail for one activist, and has been used for commissary accounts. The intent is to grow it into a fund that could launch numerous civil suits against government malpractice, and challenge the constitutionality of laws, as well as to provide legal coverage for those who want it, while dealing with the state.

There has been discussion of taking on a full time attorney, if funds permit.

I see.

[noxagol]

The intent is to grow it into a fund that could launch numerous civil suits against government malpractice, and challenge the constitutionality of laws, as well as to provide legal coverage for those who want it, while dealing with the state.

Bad idea. Can't fight the system by using the system; that is exactly what they want because they are the system. If you fight them in the system they ultimately control everything.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Bad idea. Can't fight the system by using the system; that is exactly what they want because they are the system. If you fight them in the system they ultimately control everything.

Yes, as the people have been trying for thousands of years to establish and maintain a Civil Purpose, the lawyers profit off the legal precedence that hinders them in their quest to do so. They have become drunk on their power. They legislate all the laws, they sit over every preceedings as the judge, as well as on both sides of it as the defense attorneys and the prosecuting attorneys. They even establish their own wages.
Though legal measures are necessary in order to advance the people's Civil Purpose, as a three part necessary tyranny was established by our Founding Fathers to govern for the benefit of the people, and as a head is necessary for a body, legal precedence, the legislating, the administering, the judicating for the sake of legislating, of administering, and of judicating, is the enemy of the people.

[Tenbatsu]

I believe civil disobedience is going to be one of our major weapons in future.

However, fighting it out in the courts is not the answer.

We need to achieve a critical mass so they will have a hard time rounding all of us up. Signing up for a civil disobedience bomb might be a good idea down the road.

The best way to change the system is to stop its funding by halting the federal income tax withholding from our paychecks every week. If we can get two million people do this I do not see how it would be possible for the government to stop us without using extreme force.

Things to keep in mind as it becomes clear that changing the mindset of the apathetic and ignorant masses is nearly impossible.

[tremendoustie]

I believe civil disobedience is going to be one of our major weapons in future.

However, fighting it out in the courts is not the answer.

We need to achieve a critical mass so they will have a hard time rounding all of us up. Signing up for a civil disobedience bomb might be a good idea down the road.

The best way to change the system is to stop its funding by halting the federal income tax withholding from our paychecks every week. If we can get two million people do this I do not see how it would be possible for the government to stop us without using extreme force.

Things to keep in mind as it becomes clear that changing the mindset of the apathetic and ignorant masses is nearly impossible.

I agree, although I do think, as an augmentation to traditional civil disobedience, lawsuits can be helpful.

In practice, bureaucrats absolutely do think twice if they think there is a risk of liability. Even just dragging it through the courts is a huge cost to them and their system.

I think it's worthwhile to make abuse as costly to them as possible. This means taking everything to trial, refusing to pay fines, going to jail when necessary, etc, as well as legal action when possible. It's about throwing sand in the gears, as well as making the moral issues at hand obvious to everyone.

There are people I respect who support civil disobedience, but not voting, any political activity, legal activity, etc. I think they're wrong -- we should use all nonviolent tools at our disposal.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I believe civil disobedience is going to be one of our major weapons in future.

However, fighting it out in the courts is not the answer.

We need to achieve a critical mass so they will have a hard time rounding all of us up. Signing up for a civil disobedience bomb might be a good idea down the road.

The best way to change the system is to stop its funding by halting the federal income tax withholding from our paychecks every week. If we can get two million people do this I do not see how it would be possible for the government to stop us without using extreme force.

Things to keep in mind as it becomes clear that changing the mindset of the apathetic and ignorant masses is nearly impossible.

As cans of produce spoil to become cans of worms, once useful civil measures likewise become legal precedents. Then all that legal precedence is used by tyranny as false movements to lead the people away from their Civil Purpose. In Europe, there are many movements because the people living there are still lost. In contrast, in America, there is only one movement because our nation was established on a Truth. So, what is the opposite of Truth? Why would we base an economy on any principle other than the Truth?
As tyranny often banties about "civil disobedience" as a legal precedent term(tradition), we should not consider it any longer useful; but, we should consider "legal abstinence" instead.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

there you go.. my audio reply
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2624030#post2624030

[tremendoustie]

there you go.. my audio reply
[/URL][URL]http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2624030#post2624030 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2624030#post2624030)


Yeah, this is a very good idea -- there was actually some discussion about this kind of arrangement for CDEF. It's likely to happen, in fact, but the fund's still just getting started.

People could choose to help support the particular legal action, or any other effort, they believe will be most effective.

[tremendoustie]

Clarification update: The current fund raising goal is to pay for legal defense of "sovereign curtis", who was recently arrested in Nashua, NH, for "distribution" of pot (he allegedly handed an undercover cop a pot cigarette) -- a felony, believe it or not.

Here are a couple videos of the initial event, the day before:

YouTube - Nashua Police Attack Freedom Celebration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtM673w3Y-o&feature=player_embedded)

YouTube - Police in Nashua NH Arrest Peaceful 420 Celebrants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTkulm5U_7k&feature=player_embedded)


And of curtis' arrest:

http://qik.com/video/5646931

Note that the cops refuse to identify themselves.

[tremendoustie]

Bump for Curtis.