Huge alcohol tax proposed in California

[Brian4Liberty]

First they did it to cigarettes, now it's alcohol. A regressive "sin" tax that hurts the poor the most. Once the middle class is destroyed, there's no other choice but to tax the poor...pretty ironic for a Democrat State. :rolleyes:

The neo-prohibitionists are also probably behind this. Converging agendas.

Video:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=7359813



People think it is ridiculous that a proposed initiative would raise the state excise tax on a regular bottle of wine from 4 cents to $5.11.

"That'll slow me down real good. It'll make my wife happy," says Wendall Taylor from Oakland.

The excise tax on a six-pack of beer would jump from 11 cents to $6.08 and the tax on a 750 ml bottle of spirits would go from 65 cents to $17.57.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7359818




Huge Booze Tax Proposed for California

March 31, 2010
By Blake Taylor

Buying a bottle of booze could break the bank...if a new ballot initiative should become law. Signatures are being collected right now for an initiative that would impose an additional excise tax on alcohol in California...and the numbers are eye-popping. For instance: the tax on each six-pack of beer would skyrocket from 11 cents to more than $6.00...

http://www.kmjnow.com/pages/landing_news?Huge-Booze-Tax-Proposed-for-California-=1&blockID=206319

[amy31416]

Moonshine.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Moonshine.

Exactly, my buddy is already teaching me how to brew QUALITY beer.

[amy31416]

Exactly, my buddy is already teaching me how to brew QUALITY beer.

You're lucky. I'm going by trial and error. Mostly error. :p

[KCIndy]

Given how much wine California produces, one would think there would be a huge outcry in the state over this stupid tax.... :confused:

[DamianTV]

Tax it until it is illegal, and create the black market. Hello California, Prohibition didnt work. Morons.

[LibertyMage]

They are doing the same thing in Maryland.

[dannno]

Dude, I buy bottles of wine at Trader Joe's for $1.99... that means the tax is going to be 300% of the cost of the wine!! WTF, why does the state think they can do that??

[dannno]

They still need 434,000 signatures..

I think that was about the number of signatures required to get cannabis legalization on the ballot, and they ended up getting 675,000

I don't think this will get the signatures unless there is a paid-for organized effort.

The alcohol industry will not less this pass either.

Still shows there are people out there who are fucking insane.

[Gideon]

Moonshine.

This + home-made beer and wine.

This smells like a "stimulus" package for BATFE expansion funding.

[Erazmus]

I don't think California legislators understand the fire they play with.

[catdd]

I am about as sure as possible that the government will outlaw home brewing and growing tobacco. They will let it go for awhile though.
This is another symptom of the country cracking at the seams and fixin to fall.

[silentshout]

So sick of this. So crazy, and of course people accept it because to some alcohol is "bad"and deserves the tax.

I'd love to learn how to make home-made wine.

[amy31416]

http://www.avclub.com/articles/buckfast-tonic-wine,39631/

[Sarge]

Stupid idea. The CA wine growers are going to love this one.

We buy CA wines but, they pass this one and we switch to Spanish or Australian wines.

Like Dannno said, 8 buck Chuck? The wine growers are already suffering from a glut. This will gut them.

[foofighter20x]

Stupid California liberals don't realize that demand for alcohol is pretty inelastic, which means their local boozers are going to keep spending that money alcohol while diverting income used for other purchases to that item.

Alcohol sales may come down some, but really it's the rest of the California economy that will suffer.

[NYgs23]

Surely they'll go all the way to the other side of the Laffer curve with that one.

[Erazmus]

People would simply go to border states and bring it back. As others have said, it would just hurt domestic revenues for local distributers and wine producers. The net result, dramatically lower tax revenues than they already receive.

[foofighter20x]

People would simply go to border states and bring it back. As others have said, it would just hurt domestic revenues for local distributers and wine producers. The net result, dramatically lower tax revenues than they already receive.

It'll also probably shut down some bars and restaurants.

[Erazmus]

It'll also probably shut down some bars and restaurants.

Yup. The law of unintended consequences. ;)

[payme_rick]

wow... Boozebomb

[Brian4Liberty]

It'll also probably shut down some bars and restaurants.


Yup. The law of unintended consequences. ;)

As the original sponsors are most likely neo-prohibitionists, that would be an intended consequence... ;)

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I don't really care what they do in cali. legalize slavery for all I care. page me when something happens to jersey

[Sarge]

Other great points. Imagine buying a beer at a ballgame with that increase. I already feel ripped off at concerts and ballgames.

Most restaurants make their money on the booze. This is going to be a killer on them. Same for bars only. I might have to set up a store at the AZ CA border on I 10. It will not do you any good to go to Mexico as you can only bring back two bottles.

[Sarge]

Don't you drink any CA wines? Jersey is on the way. They just haven't finished with their budget yet. Same with NY and IL.

[DapperDan]

Black Market ahoy!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Don't you drink any CA wines? Jersey is on the way. They just haven't finished with their budget yet. Same with NY and IL.

I don't drink alcohol. Haven't since New Year's. Not an alcoholic, just don't, unless I'm at a party or something. NJ should legalize weed

[Krugerrand]

It'll also probably shut down some bars and restaurants.

Time to adjust the business plan.

Many wine/beer making places offer facilities to help people make their own wine ... and even store it for them. Setup a place where your restaurant/bar will assist with regulars making/storing their own wine/beer - for a fee, of course. Then, it's their to consume when they are visiting.

Or pre-sell credits to about to be fermented beer. They can take posession of what they already own after it's fermented.

[Krugerrand]

As the original sponsors are most likely neo-prohibitionists, that would be an intended consequence... ;)

What I never get is that these taxes are supposed to both discourage a deemed-negative behavior and raise revenue at the same time.

How can that happen? If it successfully alters people's behavior, there will be no source of revenue. It it successfully raises revenue, then the deemed-negative behavior is continuing.

It's an exceptionally dishonest proposition.

[RideTheDirt]

insanity

[CzargwaR]

What I never get is that these taxes are supposed to both discourage a deemed-negative behavior and raise revenue at the same time.

How can that happen? If it successfully alters people's behavior, there will be no source of revenue. It it successfully raises revenue, then the deemed-negative behavior is continuing.

It's an exceptionally dishonest proposition.

What you say is true but you're thinking in extremes where ...lets say doubling of alcohol tax lowers legal consumption by 100%;

In this example, if legal consumption only goes down by less than 50%, then revenue will go up. So both revenue went up AND legal consumption went down.

Different numbers will give you different cutoff points obviously.

[puppetmaster]

They still need 434,000 signatures..

I think that was about the number of signatures required to get cannabis legalization on the ballot, and they ended up getting 675,000

I don't think this will get the signatures unless there is a paid-for organized effort.

The alcohol industry will not less this pass either.

Still shows there are people out there who are fucking insane.


This one of the main products of organized crime in this county...it wont happen. period

[Erazmus]

What you say is true but you're thinking in extremes where ...lets say doubling of alcohol tax lowers legal consumption by 100%;

In this example, if legal consumption only goes down by less than 50%, then revenue will go up. So both revenue went up AND legal consumption went down.

Different numbers will give you different cutoff points obviously.

Actually as taxes increase, tax revenues decrease. There is a breaking point, but with taxes on everything under the sun, and the economy deteriorating, people can't afford something like this. One thing is certain (like we saw in the prohibition), people WILL get their alcohol from somewhere.

What we're talking about here is worse than a 50% tax here. It's an excise tax going from 4 cents to over 5 dollars. I can guarantee you that people who typically spend 5 to 6 dollars on a bottle of wine would rather go out of state and stock up and bring back wine. That is exactly what I would do.

What's more, is that people bringing so much alcohol will sell what they bring in from other states at a severe discount of the state tax. Just like prohibition, it will create a black market within the state.

[Sarge]

Here is what they are getting ready to screw up.

http://www.pasowine.com/media/cawinefacts.php

Look at the impact on CA. Are these people nuts trying to tank the revenue they are generating? Look what they ship out of State.

And this is just wine. Throw in beer and liquor.

[Erazmus]

Here is what they are getting ready to screw up.

http://www.pasowine.com/media/cawinefacts.php

Look at the impact on CA. Are these people nuts trying to tank the revenue they are generating? Look what they ship out of State.

And this is just wine. Throw in beer and liquor.

Nice find. Thanks for posting the link!

[Sarge]

You are welcome.

I can't imagine them wanting to tank their number one industry.

I can't imagine paying 18 bucks more for a bottle of Scotch that has already increased in price. I use to pay 46 for my favorite Single Malt Scotch and it is now 56. and that is AZ.

[Cowlesy]

Wow, the tax-eaters are really getting desperate to maintain their feeding on taxpayer $$.

[dannno]

my favorite Single Malt Scotch


Which is?

[Sarge]

Dannno,

Dalwhinnie 15 year old Single Malt Scotch.

Put just a tiny bit of distilled water in the nosing glass before pouring the Scotch. It has a silky honey and heather taste and your whole body warms. My Bro and I discovered it while staying in a Castle in Scotland.

All my men friends, that drink scotch, love it.

I have another one for you Dannno. Don't tell all.

Trader Joe Label. 2006 Reserve Napa Cabernet. Stage Coach Vineyard. 9.99 a bottle. You might get it for a buck less in CA. The legs, taste and color are awesome. Taste the blackberries and then next you get hit with the current taste. I have to tap the wine glass to get the legs off the bottom of the glass.

The first sip doesn't tell it all. By the end you will be licking the glass.

Six of us agree it is awesome. 80 or 90 bucks if you bought it at a restaurant.

[RonPaulwillWin]

Well, if it makes it on the ballot I'll just turn my entire pad into a bud light warehouse.

[Old Ducker]

I don't think this will go anywhere. There has been a similar attempt to jack excise taxes on beer in Oregon for the past five or six years. Between breweries, wineries and distillers, affected businesses would include distributors, restaurants (many of whom generate most of their profits from bar operations), taverns and pubs. The lobbying will be intense to stop it.

The OP makes a good point that such taxes would inordinately affect the poor.

[risiusj]

YouTube - Al Bundy: "Don't tax beer" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtIRnp2f_l8)

[Erazmus]

Trader Joe Label. 2006 Reserve Napa Cabernet. Stage Coach Vineyard. 9.99 a bottle.

I live 20 minutes south of Napa. :D I get great wines very cheap.

[Sarge]

How cheap. Let's make a deal.

20 minutes South? OH BOY, That was like us crossing from Zion Ill, into Wisconsin for beer as a teenager.

Make me hacked off, and tell me how cheap you get a NAPA valley reserve please. Note I am being submissive on this request.

All my bells and whistles are going off on thinking about getting cheap NAPA valley wine in AZ.

Do you do late night runs to AZ? I will meet you at the border. I will see if my son will throw in a bundle of you know what. He would kill me on that one.

Are you trying to hack me off with that grin?

[Erazmus]

How cheap. Let's make a deal.

20 minutes South? OH BOY, That was like us crossing from Zion Ill, into Wisconsin for beer as a teenager.

Make me hacked off, and tell me how cheap you get a NAPA valley reserve please. Note I am being submissive on this request.

All my bells and whistles are going off on thinking about getting cheap NAPA valley wine in AZ.

Do you do late night runs to AZ? I will meet you at the border. I will see if my son will throw in a bundle of you know what. He would kill me on that one.

Are you trying to hack me off with that grin?

LOL, sheesh. I haven't been to Napa in a while. I mean, I've lived up here for 3 years, and being so close I make a trip for wine tasting about once a month. I'll see if I can drag the wife and baby out there this weekend. I'll see if I can drop by that particular winery. Do you know their website? That would be easier for me to get direction.

*edit* Heading home from work now, so I won't be on for a while.

[Sarge]

Once a month in wine country?

Here is the winery,

http://www.stagecoachvineyard.com/stagecoach.html

Are you going to let a wife and baby stop the wine tasting?

Do you not know that most wives drive and change diapers while you taste wine?

[ivflight]

Sounds like the market to get into is home-brewing kits and ingredients. Remember that economic intervention screws one group but often helps another. Of course, the net effect is always negative.

[Erazmus]

Once a month in wine country?

Here is the winery,

http://www.stagecoachvineyard.com/stagecoach.html

Are you going to let a wife and baby stop the wine tasting?

Do you not know that most wives drive and change diapers while you taste wine?

No no no. Nothing like that. The wife loves wine too. We used to go all the time, but being so close and after having the baby, the trips become less and less frequent. We'll check it out this weekend and I'll report prices back to you. Driving further than 60 miles is out of the question. I commute to Folsom (past Sacramento) twice a week, and to Berkeley three times a week. I barely have time to spend with my daughter before she has to go to sleep. So driving further than 60 miles is out of the question for me. ;)

What I'll do is check the prices and report back to you, and go from there.

[Noob]

Dude, I buy bottles of wine at Trader Joe's for $1.99... that means the tax is going to be 300% of the cost of the wine!! WTF, why does the state think they can do that??
Few years ago I spent $8,000 on getting a bottle of Rothschild Wine, It was the best wine I ever had. The cheep wine tasts like warm beer on a hot day.

[Wineman77]

The alcohol industry will not less this pass either.



No, we won't! The California wine industry is a multi billion dollar industry and So Cal is the number one market for many wineries. We will fight this tooth and nail. I will have to myself as this would cost me my job. I am a 100% commissioned wine salesman!

[Sarge]

Erazmus

I was kidding around with you. Don't go to the vineyard for me. Do it for yourself. I would not be surprised that you will find the wine cost more than you can get the same wine at Ralph's Grocery Store.

That is what we found out after touring the vineyards at Temecula. After we bought wines at the vineyards we found them on the shelves at Ralph's cheaper the next day. Go figure.

[Sarge]

Wineman77,

Good luck on fighting that tax.

I don't want AZ getting the same idea. We have a 2 percent food tax kick in today, which is being contested, and a 1 cent sales tax increase on the Nov. ballot.

[Erazmus]

Erazmus

I was kidding around with you. Don't go to the vineyard for me. Do it for yourself. I would not be surprised that you will find the wine cost more than you can get the same wine at Ralph's Grocery Store.

That is what we found out after touring the vineyards at Temecula. After we bought wines at the vineyards we found them on the shelves at Ralph's cheaper the next day. Go figure.

FINE! Last time I do something nice for someone! :p

We're totally going to go anyway. It's been too long. I agree about the cost thing, however there have been occasions where I have gotten wine cheaper at the winery. It doesn't happen too often. What we usually do is go to the wine tasting bars in Napa. That is the place we've found the absolute best prices. They have surplus and you don't have to pay all the shipping costs, etc. I lived in southern California pretty much all my life (before that, Germany). Every time I go back down south, the wines I usually drink (between 8 and 15 dollar bottles) are 5 to 10 dollars more expensive in So Cal, depending on where you go. So being so close to Napa now, is a dream come true. I'm not sure what cabs you have tried, below are some of my favs.

Provenance is my favorite wine. It's a bit pricey for me, so I don't get it too often.
Provenance Vineyards (http://www.provenancevineyards.com/index.cfm?method=pages.showPage&pageid=c1cb8498-1cc4-fbb6-2366-9b670473afd7)

Here are a couple of my other favorites.
Beaulieu Vineyard (http://www.bvwines.com/home)
Robert Mondavi (http://www.robertmondavi.com/)

I am pretty much specific to cabs and Pinot. I don't venture much beyond that. I haven't had a Merlot that hasn't made me wretch. :) I'm looking forward to trying the one you like so much. Will be nice to mix it up a bit.

:D

[dannno]

Dannno,

Dalwhinnie 15 year old Single Malt Scotch.

Put just a tiny bit of distilled water in the nosing glass before pouring the Scotch. It has a silky honey and heather taste and your whole body warms. My Bro and I discovered it while staying in a Castle in Scotland.

All my men friends, that drink scotch, love it.

I have another one for you Dannno. Don't tell all.

Trader Joe Label. 2006 Reserve Napa Cabernet. Stage Coach Vineyard. 9.99 a bottle. You might get it for a buck less in CA. The legs, taste and color are awesome. Taste the blackberries and then next you get hit with the current taste. I have to tap the wine glass to get the legs off the bottom of the glass.

The first sip doesn't tell it all. By the end you will be licking the glass.

Six of us agree it is awesome. 80 or 90 bucks if you bought it at a restaurant.

Thanks, I've had Dalwhinnie, it's pretty good and that's how I usually prepare my scotch. I've had a TJs label scotch for $9.99 that wasn't very good, but I don't think it was the same I'll have to see if I can find that one.

[dannno]

Few years ago I spent $8,000 on getting a bottle of Rothschild Wine, It was the best wine I ever had. The cheep wine tasts like warm beer on a hot day.

LOL.. ya i'm sure it tasted great.. still got some around :confused:

If you'd spent that $8,000 on 2 buck chuck you'd be drunk right now :p

But 2 buck chuck actually tastes amazing, it's better than the vast, vast, vast majority of $8-$12 wines you find in the store, and as good as many of the $12-$25/bottle wines..

Plus wine is good for you.