Discussion with braindead Statist - he runs away with fingers in ears

[Stary Hickory]

Kinda funny. He took a few tactics that are predictable. He asks a simple question "do you think a person has a right to healthcare?"(this was his weak arguement the whole time)

I say No because that implies human beings have the right to use the labor and lives of others under threat of force.

Obvious repsonse from him "what force?...are you crazy?"(he has no defense calls me crazy...attempt to marginalize views and avoid logica arguments)

I then lead him down a very painful and long road towards admitting that yes indeed, laws are backed by force. He did not want to go here, he was dragged kicking and screaming.

Next he loses his mind, and starts arguing with himself. Not letting me speak and speaking for me and then aswering his own statement. Quite odd. But expected. I would not let that fly and this is where he retreated...not wanting to hear one more word. He literally ran away with his fingers in his ears.

The truth is painful to these people. I feel bad for the guy, his mind is broken in many ways. But I must admit armed with logic and being well informed it makes disecting these types an easy process. They use the same tactics over and over. He would only see one side of everything, those that recieve and never the ugly side where those are robbed.

Making him see the other side was a very uncomforatable reality and this is ultilately what he ran from. When a liberal finally is made to see the gun in his own hand it scares them and they retreat from the reality.

[07041826]

Sounds about right. I had the same discussion with a girl I know and she went from trying to debate me on the issues (which didn't work because she knew nothing about the bill) to saying I was just against it because my family is so well off. Once I poked holes in that argument she stopped trying to argue.

[hillertexas]

When a liberal finally is made to see the gun in his own hand...

I like this

[tpreitzel]

The same principle applies to many Americans, especially those people who willfully ignore legitimate conspiracies like 9-11. Americans are generally weak. Americans can't face facts staring them in the face. Americans are suffering the consequences.

[Indy Vidual]

Thank you for this Stary Hickory. :)

[idirtify]

Kinda funny. He took a few tactics that are predictable. He asks a simple question "do you think a person has a right to healthcare?"(this was his weak arguement the whole time)

I say No because that implies human beings have the right to use the labor and lives of others under threat of force.

Obvious repsonse from him "what force?...are you crazy?"(he has no defense calls me crazy...attempt to marginalize views and avoid logica arguments)

I then lead him down a very painful and long road towards admitting that yes indeed, laws are backed by force. He did not want to go here, he was dragged kicking and screaming.

Next he loses his mind, and starts arguing with himself. Not letting me speak and speaking for me and then aswering his own statement. Quite odd. But expected. I would not let that fly and this is where he retreated...not wanting to hear one more word. He literally ran away with his fingers in his ears.

The truth is painful to these people. I feel bad for the guy, his mind is broken in many ways. But I must admit armed with logic and being well informed it makes disecting these types an easy process. They use the same tactics over and over. He would only see one side of everything, those that recieve and never the ugly side where those are robbed.

Making him see the other side was a very uncomforatable reality and this is ultilately what he ran from. When a liberal finally is made to see the gun in his own hand it scares them and they retreat from the reality.

Regarding the term “health care is a right”, it’s an Orwellian claim. Be careful disagreeing with it or you might fall into a trap. Of course health care is a right, just as ACCESS to any other service is a right. But what is not a right is to have others pay so that you can get the service (for less, or for free).

Coincidentally I too had a recent debate about the HC issue and government force. You can go here and view it:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sustainablelifestyles/
The group is age-restricted and you have to apply to join, but I highly recommend it to anyone who would like to see a group of pagan/wiccan/hippie/environmentalist-types get their sacred socialist beliefs served up to them on a platter.

After I was invited to join, I immediately witnessed some horribly fallacious logic being used amongst members to praise the HC bill. So I politely started to disagree, since the group’s intro says they accept all political viewpoints. I proceeded to get bombarded with objections from almost every active member. It got to the point where I had to say I could not possibly find the time to keep up with all the objections and the group might be a little too socialist for me to stay. At that point a couple lurkers and the group host asked me too stay and continue. So I did, at which point the host joined the opposition, and it basically became a debate between him and me. But since I knew him, he started politely and indirectly (and because he preaches peace and love all over his group, and his other sites where he has somewhat of a reputation as main leader/organizer). To make a semi-long story short, over the next few days of replies he pretty much did as your opponent did, and then finally banned me from the group. Again: I would highly advise going to have a look. The exchanges basically spanned from 3-23 to 3-26-2010 in the threads about “tea party protesters”, “chomsky question”, “socialism”, “free market capitalism”, and “this ‘ma ni’ issue”. As far as username identities go, I think you will recognize me as you start reading; but the host posts under multiple ones: “j. dragonrider”, “Jade Dragonrider”, “biostar_a”, and “odonata02”. It was an unabashed success, since this leader ended up loosing his cool and shaming himself in front of all his followers. It’s a lesson in how and why uninformed efforts to bring about harmony so often go south.

[Pete_00]

The same principle applies to many Americans, especially those people who willfully ignore legitimate conspiracies like 9-11. Americans are generally weak. Americans can't face facts staring them in the face. Americans are suffering the consequences.

Anyone cringes when it comes to 911 truth. It challenges many things many people hold dear, it challenges History as we know it (esp XX century history)...and the consequences of the truth becoming an undisputable fact in the minds of the masses could be horrible not only for america but the world. Ex Italian president, Francesco Cossiga said that every government and every military/intelligence institution in the World knows the truth about 911, if no government (except Iran) takes the official position that 911 is BS its because its wise not to do such a thing. Thats why its best to focus on other things for now.

A "soft" or "quiet" revolution with the crooks realising that their plan has failed and quietly letting go of their power in exchange for not suffering consequences would already be a blessing for America and Mankind.

[Indy Vidual]

Regarding the term “health care is a right”, it’s an Orwellian claim...

Off-topic: I learned yesterday that the word "Orwellian" is itself an almost "Orwellian" misunderstanding.

"Politics and the English Language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language)" (1946) is an essay by George Orwell criticizing "ugly and inaccurate" contemporary written English.
Orwell said that political prose was formed "to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable..."


Summary: George Orwell tried to teach people to use words in a more accurate and honest manner; "Orwellian" currently means just the opposite. :p

[tpreitzel]

Anyone cringes when it comes to 911 truth. It challenges many things many people hold dear, it challenges History as we know it (esp XX century history)...and the consequences of the truth becoming an undisputable fact in the minds of the masses could be horrible not only for america but the world. Ex Italian president, Francesco Cossiga said that every government and every military/intelligence institution in the World knows the truth about 911, if no government (except Iran) takes the official position that 911 is BS its because its wise not to do such a thing. Thats why its best to focus on other things for now.

A "soft" or "quiet" revolution with the crooks realising that their plan has failed and quietly letting go of their power in exchange for not suffering consequences would already be a blessing for America and Mankind.

Conspiracies do challenge conditioning, yes, which is why many people can't deal with them. In reality, I'm not convinced it's time or wise to focus on "other things". If we continue to ignore the past, we're likely condemned to repeat our past mistakes for two reasons. First, we ignored the lessons of the past, e.g. the historical similarities between Pearl Harbor and 9-11. Secondly, the criminals and their ideological offspring * remain at large. Has an expansive, wealthy criminal cartel ever quietly surrendered its power? However, I'm stepping out of this thread as it deals primarily with Obama's death-care plan. I simply wanted to illustrate that conditioning is the main problem and people stubbornly refuse to confront their conditioning.

* True ideological offspring will eventually ACT in line with their ideological parents. Future generations need to monitor these ideological offspring so they can be spared the consequences of ignoring them.

[nobody's_hero]

Sounds about right. I had the same discussion with a girl I know and she went from trying to debate me on the issues (which didn't work because she knew nothing about the bill) to saying I was just against it because my family is so well off. Once I poked holes in that argument she stopped trying to argue.

It goes the same for me. I speak out against healthcare and then they try to assume that I'm some wealthy dude that has four or five different 'cadillac' insurance plans and I don't ever worry about getting sick...

Then I explain that I'm flat broke, with a part-time job, hardly keeping enough gas in the truck to drive to campus and finish college, and then they go absolutely bonkers because they think that only wealthy people are against this bill. It throws a wrench in their whole plan of attack.

[Stary Hickory]

Conspiracies do challenge conditioning, yes, which is why many people can't deal with them. In reality, I'm not convinced it's time or wise to focus on "other things". If we continue to ignore the past, we're likely condemned to repeat our past mistakes for two reasons. First, we ignored the lessons of the past, e.g. the historical similarities between Pearl Harbor and 9-11. Secondly, the criminals and their ideological offspring * remain at large. Has an expansive, wealthy criminal cartel ever quietly surrendered its power? However, I'm stepping out of this thread as it deals primarily with Obama's death-care plan. I simply wanted to illustrate that conditioning is the main problem and people stubbornly refuse to confront their conditioning.

* True ideological offspring will eventually ACT in line with their ideological parents. Future generations need to monitor these ideological offspring so they can be spared the consequences of ignoring them.


9/11 conspiracy theroies lack logic and proof. There is no proof or even logical cover for such theories it all operates off the asumption that government is evil and a vast conspiracy. Government is not some vast conspiracy, it's simply a collection of immoral morons who over the years have wreaked havoc on America.

The absurdity of 9/11 claims is amazing. In order to "stage" an attack government would not use a complex and unpredictable thing like the mass hijacking of passenger airlines. If they were compelled to do something so evil they would darn sure do it a lot simpler to reduce the risk of being found out.

Then we are asked to believe that they crashed one plane into the Pentagaon to make it seem all so real. The evidence against the 9/11 theories is massive, and nothing but empty conjecture backed by mistrust of government is used in response to defend 9/11 conspiracy theories. I gave it a chance, just because I knew to be honest I should, but all I get is a a lot of paranoid arguments devoid of facts from conspiracy theorists. You cannot come to the table without any evidence and only empty easily dispelled myths surrounding the event.

[tpreitzel]

9/11 conspiracy theroies lack logic and proof. There is no proof or even logical cover for such theories it all operates off the asumption that government is evil and a vast conspiracy. Government is not some vast conspiracy, it's simply a collection of immoral morons who over the years have wreaked havoc on America.

The absurdity of 9/11 claims is amazing. In order to "stage" an attack government would not use a complex and unpredictable thing like the mass hijacking of passenger airlines. If they were compelled to do something so evil they would darn sure do it a lot simpler to reduce the risk of being found out.

Then we are asked to believe that they crashed one plane into the Pentagaon to make it seem all so real. The evidence against the 9/11 theories is massive, and nothing but empty conjecture backed by mistrust of government is used in response to defend 9/11 conspiracy theories. I gave it a chance, just because I knew to be honest I should, but all I get is a a lot of paranoid arguments devoid of facts from conspiracy theorists. You cannot come to the table without any evidence and only empty easily dispelled myths surrounding the event.

Wrong ... on a massive scale. However, this thread is yours to direct and you're free to adhere to your conditioning. Before slamming our opponents on Obama's death-care plan, you might want to look into a mirror, though. The evidence of 9-11 proves otherwise, e.g. discovery of nano-thermite in dust samples.

[KCIndy]

Next he loses his mind, and starts arguing with himself. Not letting me speak and speaking for me and then aswering his own statement. Quite odd. But expected. I would not let that fly and this is where he retreated...not wanting to hear one more word. He literally ran away with his fingers in his ears.


LOL!

You drove him crazy, but he'll have the last laugh. Once he checks into a mental ward, YOU as a taxpayer will get to pay his medical bill... welcome to ObamaCare!!

:D

[Akus]

Kinda funny. He took a few tactics that are predictable. He asks a simple question "do you think a person has a right to healthcare?"(this was his weak arguement the whole time)

I say No because that implies human beings have the right to use the labor and lives of others under threat of force.

Obvious repsonse from him "what force?...are you crazy?"(he has no defense calls me crazy...attempt to marginalize views and avoid logica arguments)

I then lead him down a very painful and long road towards admitting that yes indeed, laws are backed by force. He did not want to go here, he was dragged kicking and screaming.

Next he loses his mind, and starts arguing with himself. Not letting me speak and speaking for me and then aswering his own statement. Quite odd. But expected. I would not let that fly and this is where he retreated...not wanting to hear one more word. He literally ran away with his fingers in his ears.

The truth is painful to these people. I feel bad for the guy, his mind is broken in many ways. But I must admit armed with logic and being well informed it makes disecting these types an easy process. They use the same tactics over and over. He would only see one side of everything, those that recieve and never the ugly side where those are robbed.

Making him see the other side was a very uncomforatable reality and this is ultilately what he ran from. When a liberal finally is made to see the gun in his own hand it scares them and they retreat from the reality.

may be you should rename yourself Morpheus. :rolleyes:

[BlackTerrel]

Kinda funny. He took a few tactics that are predictable. He asks a simple question "do you think a person has a right to healthcare?"(this was his weak arguement the whole time)

I say No because that implies human beings have the right to use the labor and lives of others under threat of force.

Obvious repsonse from him "what force?...are you crazy?"(he has no defense calls me crazy...attempt to marginalize views and avoid logica arguments)

I then lead him down a very painful and long road towards admitting that yes indeed, laws are backed by force. He did not want to go here, he was dragged kicking and screaming.

Next he loses his mind, and starts arguing with himself. Not letting me speak and speaking for me and then aswering his own statement. Quite odd. But expected. I would not let that fly and this is where he retreated...not wanting to hear one more word. He literally ran away with his fingers in his ears.

The truth is painful to these people. I feel bad for the guy, his mind is broken in many ways. But I must admit armed with logic and being well informed it makes disecting these types an easy process. They use the same tactics over and over. He would only see one side of everything, those that recieve and never the ugly side where those are robbed.

Making him see the other side was a very uncomforatable reality and this is ultilately what he ran from. When a liberal finally is made to see the gun in his own hand it scares them and they retreat from the reality.

In what context was this conversation? Was this guy a friend of yours, did you randomly bring up politics or was it part of the ongoing discussion? Have you guys had this discussion in the past?

I have had numerous times where people wanted to debate politics or religion with me and I just wanted them to shut up. At some point there is nothing to discuss and it is better to avoid that topic.

Not saying this was the situation but it is important to keep the context in mind. I have seen threads on here like "how do I convert my Obama supporting brother to Ron Paul" and then people get pissed when their brother gets upset. You have to look at the other side. If the brother was strategizing on how to convert you to Obama you would be upset too. There is a time and a place for everything.

[BetaMale]

Name calling becomes a favorite tactic when you have them cornered with logic. They then get violent or upset that you have outwitted them mentally. Winning debates against liberals is all too easy because they are afraid of facts, real facts (not the bs democratic rhetoric they play off as facts, like the CBO's 'health care reform will reduce the budget' trick.)

I simply love it when I argue them, and it always comes down to them calling me an asshole greedy republican, and I then inform them that I also hate republicans. That usually blows their mind, as it's their grand finale argument, thrown back in their face.

So satisfying.

[RCA]

I like this

I think this is even better than the "gun in the room" argument!