War on Bullies?

[RileyE104]

Just saw a clip on FOX about some legislation that would do a number of things, one requiring teachers to report "bullying" to LAW ENFORCEMENT... :eek:

I'll post the YouTube later if I can find it..

I don't have kids yet, but what I heard them saying scared the crap out of me because I can already feel that this is going to be an utter failure if it passes..
They were talking about some sort of classes they would enroll "bullies" in for rehabilitation and stuff too. Just ridiculous..


Any thoughts/comments on this?

I feel like this legislation would be even worse the the stuff that was covered in the War on Kids.

[BlackTerrel]

Government always overreacts to everything.

When I was in 5th grade I was playing basketball with a classmate and got in a fight. I gave him a bloody nose and he busted my lip. Two days later we were friends. I actually think this kind of stuff is healthy for kids - especially boys.

That was about 13 years ago. Now a days they probably would have called the cops and had both of us arrested and expelled.

[Elle]

Home school your children and this will be a non issue.

This should really come as no surprise. Kid's aren't allowed to play tag & dodge ball in some schools now. It will hurt someone's feelings because it isn't fair.

[Anti Federalist]

Government always overreacts to everything.

When I was in 5th grade I was playing basketball with a classmate and got in a fight. I gave him a bloody nose and he busted my lip. Two days later we were friends. I actually think this kind of stuff is healthy for kids - especially boys.

That was about 13 years ago. Now a days they probably would have called the cops and had both of us arrested and expelled.

Yes, it is.

And yes, now, you both would have been arrested and more than likely prescribed Ritilan to re-enter school.

[heavenlyboy34]

Home school your children and this will be a non issue.

This should really come as no surprise. Kid's aren't allowed to play tag & dodge ball in some schools now. It will hurt someone's feelings because it isn't fair.


That sucks. :p Dodgeball and warball are the most educational activities that go on in government schools nowadays. lolz;)

[Promontorium]

There's a difference between kids fighting, and thugs in school. I was in lots of fights as a kid. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost, sometimes I had more people on my side, sometimes they did, though usually it was one on one, and we were friends the next day.

There's a difference between that, normal behavior, and when kids become relentlessly vicious, I've experienced that too. When I was in 4th grade a student in my class would insult me, he would hit me in class, when I stood up for myself, he had his cousin, who was about 6 years older and twice as big come and beat me bloody and smashed my jaw. I told my parents. I told my teacher. No one did anything. He continued to harass me, mock me, hit me, and threaten me with more violence the entire year. It was absolute hell. That is not normal. Something more should have been done. Short of me coming back with a knife, I had no more recourse. I did everything I could to avoid him, I skipped school, I would hide at lunch. I was simply not physically capable of beating up his 16 year old cousin at 10 years old, and I had no one else on my side. So what? You're going to tell me it was good for me?

There's a huge difference between momentary conflict, and when a person or group decides to torture another person indefinitely.

We've seen the extreme end of the results. Some people quit school. Some people come back with a gun. Some people kill themselves.

Is anything ever done to stop the torture, that can last for months or years? Nope. Let them work it out you say.

Should teachers be legally required to go to the police? I don't think so, but I think it's been shown that schools don't act on real threats. They probably fear the potential litigious repercussions. I think with the current attitude, this is the only solution. Let it be a wake up call.

Once again, if you want anarchy, then don't come crying when the bullied comes with a gun and kills everyone. And if you want justice, don't excuse malicious behavior. One fight is not bullying. Kids not liking each other, or not getting along, or making fun of each other is not bullying. Bullying is where a kid realizes he's in a pocket of protection, he is untouchable, and then proceeds to torture other kids around him. Bullying is when an entire group of girls maliciously attacks another girl, verbally abusing her daily, and going out of their way to make her life hell.

In these instances a neutral and authoritative representative is needed. Because this isn't a disagreement, it is a victim/perpetrator situation. If parents and shools are too weak to do anything, then yes, police should be involved. Much better to nip these issues before they grow to become larger criminal issues.

[JustinTime]

If bullying gets really serious (and it can) it would necessarily involve something that is already against the law.

Today I heard about 9 kids arrested in connection with the suicide of a teenage girl, they were up on charges of sexual assault. Now someone answer these two questions:

1- If they sexually assaulted her, why werent they arrested already?
and 2- Why do we need any more laws if what they did was already against the law?

Summum ius summa inuria.

[BlackTerrel]

There's a difference between kids fighting, and thugs in school. I was in lots of fights as a kid. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost, sometimes I had more people on my side, sometimes they did, though usually it was one on one, and we were friends the next day.

There's a difference between that, normal behavior, and when kids become relentlessly vicious, I've experienced that too. When I was in 4th grade a student in my class would insult me, he would hit me in class, when I stood up for myself, he had his cousin, who was about 6 years older and twice as big come and beat me bloody and smashed my jaw. I told my parents. I told my teacher. No one did anything. He continued to harass me, mock me, hit me, and threaten me with more violence the entire year. It was absolute hell. That is not normal. Something more should have been done. Short of me coming back with a knife, I had no more recourse. I did everything I could to avoid him, I skipped school, I would hide at lunch. I was simply not physically capable of beating up his 16 year old cousin at 10 years old, and I had no one else on my side. So what? You're going to tell me it was good for me?

I should clarify my previous post. I agree 100% with what you are saying.

There needs to be a balance:

1. Two kids getting in a schoolyard fight don't need to be arrested, expelled, or given ritalin.

2. And a 16 year old kid shouldn't be given free reign to beat the crap out of a 10 year old every day.

There should be some middle ground. Unfortunately with society these days - it seems to be one extreme or the other. Common sense is out the window.

[BlackTerrel]

Home school your children and this will be a non issue.

There's more to school than just an education. Interacting with peers (sports, social situations, even the occasional fight) is what makes you a well adjusted person. I grew up poor and we moved around a ton always at new schools and I had to learn how to make friends and stand up for myself real quick. I credit that for how I am today though and am absolutely glad I went through it.

The few people I knew in college or later who were homeschooled were usually bright academically, but were always a bit "off". Like this kid here:

YouTube - Smart-Ass Spelling Bee Winner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_tn4qcSNw)

[Fox McCloud]

clearly we need this legislated and regulated because this is something completely new in the past 300+ years of education.

[Don't Tread on Mike]

There's more to school than just an education. Interacting with peers (sports, social situations, even the occasional fight) is what makes you a well adjusted person. I grew up poor and we moved around a ton always at new schools and I had to learn how to make friends and stand up for myself real quick. I credit that for how I am today though and am absolutely glad I went through it.

The few people I knew in college or later who were homeschooled were usually bright academically, but were always a bit "off". Like this kid here:

YouTube - Smart-Ass Spelling Bee Winner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_tn4qcSNw)

ok that is frightening. he definitely has some serious social problems.

[.Tom]

Get rid of compulsory education. That way the kids who get picked on don't have to put up with it and can find employment instead. No need to waste more time in one of these hellholes called "schools" when you can enter the market and actually do something useful.

[CGeoffrion]

I saw that story too. It was referring to a girl a few town away from me who ended up hanging herself after relentless mindless bullying from much of the student body. I actually have family in the school who knew the girl.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/03/29/2010-03-29_phoebe_prince_south_hadley_high_schools_new_gir l_driven_to_suicide_by_teenage_cy.html


9 kids have been brought in for a pile of charges.

[Elle]

There's more to school than just an education. Interacting with peers (sports, social situations, even the occasional fight) is what makes you a well adjusted person. I grew up poor and we moved around a ton always at new schools and I had to learn how to make friends and stand up for myself real quick. I credit that for how I am today though and am absolutely glad I went through it.

The few people I knew in college or later who were homeschooled were usually bright academically, but were always a bit "off". Like this kid here:

YouTube - Smart-Ass Spelling Bee Winner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_tn4qcSNw)

I'm not sure if it holds true in all states, but in Michigan you can home school your child in academic areas and let them attend school for classes like PE, art and music. They can also play sports and attend social functions.

I would guess that there may be more than lack of social skills going on with that kid. Almost seems like Rain Man in a way.

I've seen home schooling work out fantastic and I've seen it go very wrong too. There are a lot of variables. If the child isn't socially adjusted, that is usually because the parent isn't usually socially adjusted either.

[InterestedParticipant]

Just saw a clip on FOX about some legislation that would do a number of things, one requiring teachers to report "bullying" to LAW ENFORCEMENT... :eek:

I'll post the YouTube later if I can find it..

I don't have kids yet, but what I heard them saying scared the crap out of me because I can already feel that this is going to be an utter failure if it passes..
They were talking about some sort of classes they would enroll "bullies" in for rehabilitation and stuff too. Just ridiculous..


Any thoughts/comments on this?

I feel like this legislation would be even worse the the stuff that was covered in the War on Kids.
It's called "Sensitivity Training". The technique was created and used in the Soviet Union. There's information on this technique on the web, do a search. It's a sophisticated behavioral control technique.

[Promontorium]

Get rid of compulsory education. That way the kids who get picked on don't have to put up with it and can find employment instead. No need to waste more time in one of these hellholes called "schools" when you can enter the market and actually do something useful.

i.e. blame the victim. How about blame the perpetrator and send him to work? No? Too just?

[Promontorium]

clearly we need this legislated and regulated because this is something completely new in the past 300+ years of education.

The litigious society, the castrated teacher, the blame-free parenting, the masses upon masses of students.

Yes, actually, these are new.

Kids bullying is not new. However all the things that line up, and allow kids to be complete assholes without repercusison is new.

If it were "300 years ago" it would just be a priviliged few upper caste kids, and if one of them took an attitude, the teacher would knock the kid out.

Of course, you've ignored the issue entirely, and your non answer is probably the most you've thought about it.

[Promontorium]

I didn't quit school. And eventually I got bigger, and I beat the hell out of kids enough in my day. Does that somehow make you feel better? You want to blame the victim, I suppose when I reached puberty, I should have just knocked out every other kid in school, and had all the teachers to myself? That's how you want it done?

I want you to justify your position. You promote violence and torture, and tell the victim to quit school. I honestly want to know why you think that is just.

[New2Libertarianism]

Lack of social activity in home schooling is certainly a major issue.
We need classes on bullying, as well as how to stop being a pussy and letting others affect you.

[bruce leeroy]

I went to school in southern Dallas during the very racially tense early 90s. I endured my fair share of bullying. also got a lil ass on my boot as time went on and I learned how to throw a tommy himan hearnes straight right and a Julio Ceaser Chavez left hook. I agree withthe poster that said that there has to be a balance.......our schools have gone too much into nanny mode. teenage boys(and girls) are gonna fight. but if its a pattern of terror, sometimes the law can be the only recourse, but I dont think new legislation is really gonna do anything but screw somethin already broken up worse.

[Erazmus]

Can we abolish government schools now?

[Erazmus]

Lack of social activity in home schooling is certainly a major issue.
We need classes on bullying, as well as how to stop being a pussy and letting others affect you.

Social activity is always claimed as a benefit for public (government schools) which is nonsense. People get social interaction elsewhere (church, sports, community events, private schools, and so on). Besides, it shouldn't be up to the state to tell people how to raise or educate their children. It's a social decision, so the state should stay the fuck out of it.

I'm so damn tired of people defending state infringement into people's lives. Many of the founders were homeschooled for crying out loud. They turned out pretty good in my view.

*Disclaimer* This rant isn't directed specifically at you New2Lib.

[catdd]

Government wants to be the only bully on the block.

[Andrew-Austin]

Just saw a clip on FOX about some legislation that would do a number of things, one requiring teachers to report "bullying" to LAW ENFORCEMENT... :eek:

I'll post the YouTube later if I can find it..

I don't have kids yet, but what I heard them saying scared the crap out of me because I can already feel that this is going to be an utter failure if it passes..
They were talking about some sort of classes they would enroll "bullies" in for rehabilitation and stuff too. Just ridiculous..


Any thoughts/comments on this?

I feel like this legislation would be even worse the the stuff that was covered in the War on Kids.

Some anti-social behavior is expected when you force a bunch of kids to inhabit the same small little rooms for the bulk of their young lives. And sorry I'm skeptical to anyone who hasn't attended a public school recently and believes the environments in them can't be described as socially dysfunctional.

[Anti Federalist]

Some anti-social behavior is expected when you force a bunch of kids to inhabit the same small little rooms for the bulk of their young lives. And sorry I'm skeptical to anyone who hasn't attended a public school recently and believes the environments in them can't be described as socially dysfunctional.

Prison.

[Pericles]

Prison.

At least you had a good probability of avoiding prison, back when this was a free country. Kids aren't so lucky.

[tremendoustie]

There's more to school than just an education. Interacting with peers (sports, social situations, even the occasional fight) is what makes you a well adjusted person. I grew up poor and we moved around a ton always at new schools and I had to learn how to make friends and stand up for myself real quick. I credit that for how I am today though and am absolutely glad I went through it.

The few people I knew in college or later who were homeschooled were usually bright academically, but were always a bit "off". Like this kid here:

YouTube - Smart-Ass Spelling Bee Winner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_tn4qcSNw)

Aw jeez :rolleyes:. I know dozens of home schooled kids (including me), and they all turned out normal. Do I have to dig up videos of public schooled, socially awkward ubergeeks?

I spent more time socializing and doing extracurriculars (drama, X-C running, track, skiing, chess, auto mechanics, etc) than most public schoolers I knew.

[bruce leeroy]

Aw jeez :rolleyes:. I know dozens of home schooled kids (including me), and they all turned out normal. Do I have to dig up videos of public schooled, socially awkward ubergeeks?

I spent more time socializing and doing extracurriculars (drama, X-C running, track, skiing, chess, auto mechanics, etc) than most public schoolers I knew.

yeah, but you missed out on the dice games in the boys bathroom and a lot of other fun stuff :)