Palin: Violence Is Not The Answer

[Matt Collins]

Palin: Violence Is Not The Answer

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Palin_Incitement_is_lamestream_media_fiction.html


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[pcosmar]

Violence Is Not The Answer

What was the question?

[not.your.average.joe]

Palin: Violence Is Not The Answer

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Palin_Incitement_is_lamestream_media_fiction.html


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"but the war must continue"

*disclosure, did not read the link yet...

[not.your.average.joe]

Palin: Violence Is Not The Answer

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Palin_Incitement_is_lamestream_media_fiction.html


.


OK i read it now...

"violence is not the answer, now please go back to watching american idol while the government pillages and rapes your wealth and liberty"

[Romulus]

* unless god tells you it is.

[Pete_00]

Says the woman that wants to ship all the jews back to Palestine (excuse me...Israel) so Jesus may return even if that means thermonuclear war...

[Original_Intent]

Ron Paul: Violence is not the answer. Sorry Sarah, he beat you to the punch by a few years...oh wait you aren;t talking about our foreign policy?

[Anti Federalist]

Palin: Violence Is Not The Answer

Unless, of course, you are government, then, not only is it the answer, but the only answer.

http://astromuse1.webs.com/waco%20massacre.bmp

http://pubrecord.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/us_war_deaths_coffins_DoD.jpg

http://imgsrv.wbbm780.com/image/DbGraphic/201003/1525988.jpg?1269594924

[JK/SEA]

Got an idea. Haven't seen this yet, but we really need to put down those Gadsen Flags, and exchange them for..PLEASE LUBE ME FIRST...with a pic of a tube of K=Y Gel...

or not..

[Anti Federalist]

Got an idea. Haven't seen this yet, but we really need to put down those Gadsen Flags, and exchange them for..PLEASE LUBE ME FIRST...with a pic of a tube of K=Y Gel...

or not..

Yeah really, those flags are a symbol of direct violence, they gotta go...:rolleyes::mad:

[phill4paul]

What was the question?

+ agajillionwhatsafluxes

[silus]

She's weak on national defense.

[pcosmar]

Yeah really, those flags are a symbol of direct violence, they gotta go...:rolleyes::mad:

Perhaps another flag,,

http://factman.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/jolly-patch.jpg


Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
H. L. Mencken

Appropriate?

[phill4paul]

Perhaps another flag,,

http://factman.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/jolly-patch.jpg


Appropriate?

I believe the black flag refers to a solid standard. To be in a black flag company meant no mercy no quarter given or expected.

[pcosmar]

To be in a black flag company meant no mercy no quarter given or expected.

And being on a pirate or privateer ship is different ? how?

[fedup100]

[QUOTE=Anti Federalist;2614483]Unless, of course, you are government, then, not only is it the answer, but the only answer.



^^^^ this!! When we the people decide to disobey his mandates wait and see how long it takes zero to call in the goons to kill you and yours.

[phill4paul]

And being on a pirate or privateer ship is different ? how?

Most pirate ships took prisoners of the officers for ransom. Quite a bit of distinction. No mercy-no quarter doesn't afford ransoming like the nobility felt they were afforded.
Black flag = no one get's out of here alive.

[MN Patriot]

Embarrassed to admit, didn't know what a Gadsden Flag is. :o
Even Firefox spell check knows what it is.

Gadsden Flag:
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/GadsdenFlag.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.burkeandhare.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/pirate-flags.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Embarrassed to admit, didn't know what a Gadsden Flag is. :o
Even Firefox spell check knows what it is.

Gadsden Flag:
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/GadsdenFlag.jpg

Violence....ahhhhhhh...get it away, away I say!!!

[pcosmar]

Most pirate ships took prisoners of the officers for ransom. Quite a bit of distinction. No mercy-no quarter doesn't afford ransoming like the nobility felt they were afforded.
Black flag = no get's out of here alive.

A commodity for profit. No different than silk or spice.

btw, I am not in favor of piracy, but was more alluding to the ruthlessness involved.

But to the OP and Palin's quote,
Violence, sometimes indeed , is the answer. What was the question?

[phill4paul]

Violence....ahhhhhhh...get it away, away I say!!!

Gadsden isn't violent. It is pre-violence. It is a warning. The snake isn't striking. It is simply coiled and saying take another step. If ya dare.

[phill4paul]

A commodity for profit. No different than silk or spice.

btw, I am not in favor of piracy, but was more alluding to the ruthlessness involved.

But to the OP and Palin's quote,
Violence, sometimes indeed , is the answer. What was the question?

Quite so. But that is the distinction of the solid field to the skull and bones.

At the start of the Missouri/Kansas war Capt. Bill Anderson took prisoners in trade to the Union for other prisoners. After his sisters died in an unfortunate mishap while in custody by the union he ended this practice. He became known as a "black flag" company and received many volunteers that had lost so much at the hand of the Union they could not do anything other than vengeance upon the Union.

Solid black field means nothing other than total antipathy. I think this is what Mencken was referring to.

But then again I am wrong 5% 4 out of 5 times.:p

[ClayTrainor]

Can I assume this means that Mrs Palin is Anti-tax and anti-war now? :rolleyes:

[phill4paul]

Can I assume this means that Mrs Palin is Anti-tax and anti-war now? :rolleyes:

Sweet! Agreed. But as my boot camp instructor emphatically told me time and again, never assume.:)

[CasualApathy]

Violence is not the answer to anything. Only the weak resort to it.

[phill4paul]

Violence is not the answer to anything. Only the weak resort to it.

Because Ghandi lead the American revolution.:rolleyes:

[CasualApathy]

Because Ghandi lead the American revolution.:rolleyes:

The american revolutionary war was just as despicable as any other armed conflict. The cause matters little when people are slaughtering eachother, there is no justice in war and eventually people loose their souls. You should consider yourselves lucky the british gave up so quickly - there is no telling what another decade or two of conflict could have turned your ancestors into.

[dwdollar]

Violence is not the answer to anything. Only the weak resort to it.

:confused:

Isn't that A General you're quoting in your sig?



...

[CasualApathy]

:confused:

Isn't that A General you're quoting in your sig?



...

Indeed it is, so he should know what he is talking about.

[dwdollar]

Indeed it is, so he should know what he is talking about.

Eisenhower may have spoke out against the military industrial complex but he was hardly a pacifist.



...

[CasualApathy]

Eisenhower may have spoke out against the military industrial complex but he was hardly a pacifist.

By quoting his words i am saying that i agree with them, not that i agree with everything he has ever said or done. Not at all.

He was one of your presidents and he gave you a warning - one you should have listened to.

[phill4paul]

Violence is not the answer to anything. Only the weak resort to it.

OK try this on for size Mr. Pacifist.

An individual facing threat of violent rape at the hands of an aggressor should passively submit.

Yea or nea?

[dwdollar]

By quoting his words i am saying that i agree with them, not that i agree with everything he has ever said or done. Not at all.

He was one of your presidents and he gave you a warning - one you should have listened to.

I agree on that part. Although I don't think he was implying that everyone should be a pacifist.



...

[CasualApathy]

OK try this on for size Mr. Pacifist.

An individual facing threat of violent rape at the hands of an aggressor should passively submit.

Yea or nea?

I have always supported the individuals right to self defence. There is a big difference however between legitimate self defence and threatening others with violence. Even you should be able to see that.

[CasualApathy]

I agree on that part. Although I don't think he was implying that everyone should be a pacifist.



...

And i never implyed he was.

[phill4paul]

I have always supported the individuals right to self defence. There is a big difference however between legitimate self defence and threatening others with violence. Even you should be able to see that.

No you said...


Violence is not the answer to anything. Only the weak resort to it.

It IS the answers to some things. Even you should be able to see that.

[Juan McCain]

Eisenhower may have spoke out against the military industrial complex but he was hardly a pacifist.

...

"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can,
only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it.
After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Andrew-Austin]

Palin: Violence Is Not The Answer

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Palin_Incitement_is_lamestream_media_fiction.html


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This coming from a warmonger neocon, profound.

[CasualApathy]

It IS the answers to some things. Even you should be able to see that.

And just what has violence solved?

The fact that you can be forced to answer violence with violence to save your life is just a sad fact of life, but it doesn't solve anything.

After all, it was violence that created the problem in the first place.

And please try to understand that i am not just splitting words, i am trying to make you see that violence should be the very last resort and that it can only be "justified" when faced with immediate danger, and even then you should take no joy in it at all.

Violence is not a tool that can be wielded to achieve some result and nothing of value is ever gained from it.

[CasualApathy]

"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can,
only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it.
After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

It appears i was uninformed, thank you Juan :)

[CasualApathy]

"Violence is only the answer to itself."

You can quote me on that.

[Juan McCain]

It appears i was uninformed, thank you Juan :)

No problem . . . pass them on and use them well.

I got good mileage out of them when up against mainly Giuliani supporters - but also Romney and ALL of the others - in various situations advocating Ron Paul through the GOP debates mainly 2007 and early 2008.

[CasualApathy]

No problem . . . pass them on and use them well.

I got good mileage out of them when up against mainly Giuliani supporters - but also Romney and ALL of the others - in various situations advocating Ron Paul through the GOP debates mainly 2007 and early 2008.

Keep up the good fight :)

America will need people like you in the years ahead.

[phill4paul]

And just what has violence solved?

The fact that you can be forced to answer violence with violence to save your life is just a sad fact of life, but it doesn't solve anything.

After all, it was violence that created the problem in the first place.

And please try to understand that i am not just splitting words, i am trying to make you see that violence should be the very last resort and that it can only be "justified" when faced with immediate danger, and even then you should take no joy in it at all.

Violence is not a tool that can be wielded to achieve some result and nothing of value is ever gained from it.

Well I would argue that the fact that I could answer violence with violence and still be the one left breathing for one more day does solve something.

I don't disagree that it is sad fact of life. I do hold that it is indeed a fact of life. One that should be heeded until unicorns and fairies rule the world.

You don't have to make me see that violence is a last resort. I'm an adherent to the principle.

However, I do take a measure of satisfaction in stomping the shit out of a shit bag that thinks the cards are in his favor because I let it go as long as it could be let go while the situation was pushed and escalated. In fact I would say "joy" is an understatement.

The the "threat" of violence is a powerful tool. I knew a scrawny kid that had took all he could from the bully in the playground then one day whipped the bullies ass. All the other kids that picked on him because the bully did suddenly stopped picking on him as did the bully.

There is nothing wrong with the perception of violence if wronged. Nothing.

[CasualApathy]

The the "threat" of violence is a powerful tool. I knew a scrawny kid that had took all he could from the bully in the playground then one day whipped the bullies ass. All the other kids that picked on him because the bully did suddenly stopped picking on him as did the bully.

There is nothing wrong with the perception of violence if wronged. Nothing.

And this is where you and I disagree, I see no value in it whatsoever.

[dwdollar]

"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can,
only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it.
After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Hmmm... I still don't think that proves him a pacifist, but you two are entitled to your opinions.



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[CasualApathy]

Hmmm... I still don't think that makes him a pacifist, but you two are entitled to your opinions.



...

:rolleyes:

[dwdollar]

:rolleyes:

You can roll your eyes all you want.

[phill4paul]

And this is where you and I disagree, I see no value in it whatsoever.

OK:) I've got no beef with pacifists. They are the least of my problems.

[Anti Federalist]

OK:) I've got no beef with pacifists. They are the least of my problems.

hahahahha

[CasualApathy]

You can roll your eyes all you want.

Thanks, I will :)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

There, that should do it... oh wait

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Alright, I'm done

[CasualApathy]

OK:) I've got no beef with pacifists. They are the least of my problems.

Haha! Indeed! :)

That was pretty clever ;)

[Juan McCain]

Hmmm... I still don't think that proves him a pacifist, but you two are entitled to your opinions.

...

I really haven't read this whole thread . . . and I interjected the quotes only because Ike does get misconstrued.

No, I do not think Eisenhower was a pacifist.

As he said . . . he knows war first hand - and it IS stupid.

As a general in WWII he couldn't be considered a pacifist -
but as President he managed the dangerous situations of the 1950's as the two superpowers started to play with hydrogen bombs.

And by his farewell address, he realized that people he had served with in the military would be going off the deep end -
just like the neocons now.

He managed a hell of a situation while Stalin was set on destruction of the planet earth.

[CasualApathy]

No, I do not think Eisenhower was a pacifist.

Dude!! I thought you had my back! :(

In any case, those are pacifist quotes by any standard.

[dwdollar]

Thanks, I will :)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

There, that should do it... oh wait

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Alright, I'm done


LOL. Give me a break. This is going nowhere. I'm done, you can have the last word.



...

[CasualApathy]

LOL. Give me a break. This is going nowhere. I'm done, you can have the last word.



...

I hope I haven't offended you, and I must disagree with your assertion that this is going nowhere. Debate always brings us forward - towards greater understanding n´ stuff :)

[Sic Semper Tyrannis]

I believe the black flag refers to a solid standard. To be in a black flag company meant no mercy no quarter given or expected.

http://www.rulen.com/moflag/quantrel.jpg
The Black flag of Quantrill's Raiders. (Missouri Partisan Guerilla Fighters)

"Colonel Stuart, if I had my way we would show no quarter to the
enemy. No more than the redskin showed your troopers. The black flag,
sir. If the North triumphs, it is not alone the destruction of our
property, it is the prelude to....the ultimate loss of free and responsible government on this continent. It is the triumph of commerce, banks and the factory. We should meet the Federal invaders on the outer verge of just and right defence, and raise at once the black flag. No quarter to the violaters of our homes and firesides....Only the black flag will bring the North quickly to their senses and rapidly end the war...Give them the bayonet, indeed."
- General Stonewall Jackson in the movie 'Gods and Generals'

[Juan McCain]

Dude!! I thought you had my back! :(

In any case, those are pacifist quotes by any standard.

Well, now reading this whole thread . . . it all is very silly - but that is what happens here on RPF sometimes.

Eisenhower's mother WAS a pacifist . . . but she let him enter the military.
Ike said that she was a pacifist and that was what made her happy.

Eisenhower himself really couldn't be considered a pacifist . . . although he did keep the peace in the 1950's sorta and his quotes are that he doesn't advocate war.

That is why his quotes for peace get people's attention - he knows what war is.

I know that he would have some how responded if Stalin attacked the U.S. - not a pacifist.

Now someone like Giuliani was just a piece of shit tough guy as an AG and Mayor who
once said "Freedom is About Authority" and would have homeless people arrested over petty things.
Giuliani was part of the problem . . . but for a while alot thought he may be a solution - uggh.

[CasualApathy]

Well, I'm dead serious when it comes to the issue of violence. However, I also tend to throw in a little silly since that helps to diffuse the situation a little. Unfortunately it is my experince that some people tend to get pissed off when you speak out against violence. It's quite disconcerting really but I like to think that the silent majority agrees with my position. That helps me sleep at night at least.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, now reading this whole thread . . . it all is very silly - but that is what happens here on RPF sometimes.

Eisenhower's mother WAS a pacifist . . . but she let him enter the military.
Ike said that she was a pacifist and that was what made her happy.

Eisenhower himself really couldn't be considered a pacifist . . . although he did keep the peace in the 1950's sorta and his quotes are that he doesn't advocate war.

That is why his quotes for peace get people's attention - he knows what war is.

I know that he would have some how responded if Stalin attacked the U.S. - not a pacifist.

Now someone like Giuliani was just a piece of shit tough guy as an AG and Mayor who
once said "Freedom is About Authority" and would have homeless people arrested over petty things.
Giuliani was part of the problem . . . but for a while alot thought he may be a solution - uggh.

Great Uncle Smedley was a Quaker, yet he fought in all sorts of engagements including WWI, becoming, at the time he died, the most decorated US Marine ever, including two CMHs.

Of course, being a Quaker, he shouldn't even have been there, and maybe that was what motivated him later to reflect honestly on what he had devoted his life to and write War is a Racket.

[TortoiseDream]

* unless god tells you it is.

No God told us thou shalt not kill. Palin is smarter than God, obviously.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, I'm dead serious when it comes to the issue of violence. However, I also tend to throw in a little silly since that helps to diffuse the situation a little. Unfortunately it is my experince that some people tend to get pissed off when you speak out against violence. It's quite disconcerting really but I like to think that the silent majority agrees with my position. That helps me sleep at night at least.

Pacifism or non aggression?

Would you defend yourself, personally, if attacked violently?

[phill4paul]

http://www.rulen.com/moflag/quantrel.jpg
The Black flag of Quantrill's Raiders. (Missouri Partisan Guerilla Fighters)

"Colonel Stuart, if I had my way we would show no quarter to the
enemy. No more than the redskin showed your troopers. The black flag,
sir. If the North triumphs, it is not alone the destruction of our
property, it is the prelude to....the ultimate loss of free and responsible government on this continent. It is the triumph of commerce, banks and the factory. We should meet the Federal invaders on the outer verge of just and right defence, and raise at once the black flag. No quarter to the violaters of our homes and firesides....Only the black flag will bring the North quickly to their senses and rapidly end the war...Give them the bayonet, indeed."
- General Stonewall Jackson in the movie 'Gods and Generals'

Capt. Bill (Bloody Bill) Anderson served under Quantrill for a time. Then he started his own First Missouri Brigade. Interesting period in civil-war history and almost a different war unto itself.

I've not found a reference to an actual flag for Bloody Bill. Just that his was considered a "black flag" company.

If you get the chance find....

"Wildwood Boys" by James Carlos Blake. A friend lent it to me last week and lo and behold the skies closed in with rain and I actually had the chance to finish a book from cover to cover over two days. Rare indeed and punctual given my interest.

Good read. Recommended. If is anyone is a screenwriter hop on it now!

I

[CasualApathy]

Pacifism or non aggression?

Would you defend yourself, personally, if attacked violently?

I have already answered that in this thread and in others. I would defend myself if I had no other choice, but I am honestly not sure if I cold ever actually kill someone, even to save myself. I suspect I would have to be in that situation to find out, perhaps my survival-instinct would overshadow my revulsion against violence, but I would certainly stop as soon as my attacker was incapacitated. More than likely I wouldn't succeed in defending myself if someone actually attempted to kill me though since I don't have a gun or other weapons to defend myself and since I don't spend nearly as much time working out as criminals do.

[Anti Federalist]

I have already answered that in this thread and in others. I would defend myself if I had no other choice, but I am honestly not sure if I cold ever actually kill someone, even to save myself. I suspect I would have to be in that situation to find out, perhaps my survival-instinct would overshadow my revulsion against violence, but I would certainly stop as soon as my attacker was incapacitated. More than likely I wouldn't succeed in defending myself if someone actually attempted to kill me though since I don't have a gun or other weapons to defend myself and since I don't spend nearly as much time working out as criminals do.

Not trying to pick a fight...in fact that would pretty pointless, picking a fight with a pacifist.

I was just curious.

NVM :-|

[phill4paul]

Pacifists can still support a cause they believe in. I don't want to get into a discussion of whether or not his cause was valid. Just want to put it out there.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/desmond_doss_pacifist_medal_of_honor_recipient_die s_at_87/

Inspiring.

[CasualApathy]

Not trying to pick a fight...in fact that would pretty pointless, picking a fight with a pacifist.

I was just curious.

NVM :-|

I only pointed out that I had answered the question before because you have asked me before :)

[phill4paul]

I hope you read that link to Desmond Doss CA. Hadn't really thought of it till our discussion tonight.

He had bullies that "teased, ridiculed and harassed" him. Just like the playground bully. Guess he showed them, huh?

So. We all have roles. I'd have liked Desmond on my side.

[Anti Federalist]

I only pointed out that I had answered the question before because you have asked me before :)

I did?

Damn, hell getting old.

Apologies.

[CasualApathy]

I did?

Damn, hell getting old.

Apologies.

On several occations if i am not mistaken. It's cool though :)

[CasualApathy]

I hope you read that link to Desmond Doss CA. Hadn't really thought of it till our discussion tonight.

He had bullies that "teased, ridiculed and harassed" him. Just like the playground bully. Guess he showed them, huh?

So. We all have roles. I'd have liked Desmond on my side.

I sure did, and thank you for providing the link - what an amazing story, and what an amazing man.

[Juan McCain]

Pacifists can still support a cause they believe in. I don't want to get into a discussion of whether or not his cause was valid. Just want to put it out there.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/desmond_doss_pacifist_medal_of_honor_recipient_die s_at_87/

Inspiring.

Thanks for the link.

[Rael]

What was the question?

Damn, beat me to it :D