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View Full Version : What a surprise - Government Motors supports "black box" for cars bill




Anti Federalist
03-23-2010, 08:29 PM
GM backs 'black boxes' bill

Requiring vehicle data recorders would help crash investigations
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau

Washington -- General Motors Co. supports legislation to require so-called "black boxes" in vehicles to collect crash data, and it is willing to support additional "reasonable" auto safety legislation.

Meeting with reporters Friday, GM's new vice president for government relations, Robert E. Ferguson, said the company backs legislation in the works from Rep. Gene Green, D-Texas, to mandate event data recorders.

"I think EDRs ought to be in every car," Ferguson said. "Devices ought to be readily available so that law enforcement can find out what happens to vehicles involved in crashes."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100320/AUTO01/3200312/1148/GM-backs--black-boxes--bill#ixzz0j3r2Ek4w

james1906
03-23-2010, 10:31 PM
I will never buy a vehicle with one. Looks like I'll keep driving my current rides until I die.

foofighter20x
03-24-2010, 12:05 AM
I'd buy a car with one.

I'd just unplug the damned thing.

And if they manufacture the car to that it can't run without it, I'll vote with my dollars at a different dealership.

dwdollar
03-24-2010, 12:09 AM
I'd buy a car with one.

I'd just unplug the damned thing.

And if they manufacture the car to that it can't run without it, I'll vote with my dollars at a different dealership.

It'll probably be illegal to unplug, but I'd bet money the car wouldn't run without it. Unless it's modified. Also, it will probably be required on all new cars.

Our peaceful options are running thin me thinks.



...

Anti Federalist
03-24-2010, 12:16 AM
I'd buy a car with one.

I'd just unplug the damned thing.

And if they manufacture the car to that it can't run without it, I'll vote with my dollars at a different dealership.

Right now, the feds are only mandating standardization of the EDR data.

You can count on it being required in the coming years.

And you cannot unplug it, it's an integral part of the ECM and airbag system.

Anti Federalist
03-24-2010, 12:18 AM
It'll probably be illegal to unplug, but I'd bet money the car wouldn't run without it. Unless it's modified. Also, it will probably be required on all new cars.

Our peaceful options are running thin me thinks.



...

They ran out years ago...

Just that nobody wants to admit it.

pcosmar
03-24-2010, 10:12 AM
I foresee the value of old wrenches increasing. ;)

Cowlesy
03-24-2010, 10:24 AM
I never thought the first car I purchased myself would be from the 1970's :p

MelissaWV
03-24-2010, 10:28 AM
I never thought the first car I purchased myself would be from the 1970's :p

The first free-and-clear purchase (my first car was via bank loan, future vehicles were purchased with other signatories or with others' money in the mix) will be older than that. I don't like most of the styling from the 1970s.

http://www.butchery.gr/shop/images/1969-ford-mustang-boss-42-5_380x0w.jpg

It's nice to have a goal.

andrewh817
03-24-2010, 10:39 AM
Can someone say Fascism?!

Cowlesy
03-24-2010, 10:42 AM
The first free-and-clear purchase (my first car was via bank loan, future vehicles were purchased with other signatories or with others' money in the mix) will be older than that. I don't like most of the styling from the 1970s.

http://www.butchery.gr/shop/images/1969-ford-mustang-boss-42-5_380x0w.jpg

It's nice to have a goal.

I was thinking....

http://www.hollywood-diecast.com/a-team.jpg

pcosmar
03-24-2010, 10:45 AM
Can someone say Fascism?!

The concept is not new.
http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/vw.htm
http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/images/vw/vw2.jpg

Travlyr
03-24-2010, 10:52 AM
How convenient for them. They could include a mileage counter that would automatically deduct mileage tax from our bank accounts - "real time." It could be part of the "pay as you go" legislation.

amy31416
03-24-2010, 11:12 AM
I was thinking....

http://www.hollywood-diecast.com/a-team.jpg

Hehehehe.

I'm liking modified minivans...easy to stay under the radar, then whip out the badassery when needed.

http://mediocrefacemelt.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/minivannn.jpg

silentshout
03-24-2010, 11:37 AM
I think I'll keep my Honda for a very, very long time...they pretty much run forever anyway. I don't want one of those things in my car. no thanks.

DamianTV
03-24-2010, 12:32 PM
Well, now they want to put Black Boxes in your car.

Progressive Auto Insurance wants to blackmail their insured into installing the same damn thing for "monitoring the way you drive" and forcing people to do this by "offering a discount" which 99.9% of stupid people take.

Every state wants to get their residents to go for auto ticket cameras like the Unlawful Kingdom.

When do we draw the line?

andrewh817
03-24-2010, 01:03 PM
How convenient for them. They could include a mileage counter that would automatically deduct mileage tax from our bank accounts - "real time." It could be part of the "pay as you go" legislation.

I never even made that connection....... you should work for the government.

Semper Vigilans
03-24-2010, 02:19 PM
And you cannot unplug it, it's an integral part of the ECM and airbag system.

All that CAN be defeated on a modern vehicle with the right know how...

;)

pcosmar
03-24-2010, 03:22 PM
All that CAN be defeated on a modern vehicle with the right know how...

;)

Yes,
but not easily nor cheaply.
It would require the replacement of the fuel delivery system. replace or modify the intake manifold and add a carburetor.
Radically modify or add a mechanical distributor.
The various safeties and interlocks could be defeated and are only a time consuming annoyance.

These are not things that could be done by the average mechanic.
You would also have to accept a distinct loss of efficiency.

It would be much easier (and perhaps cheaper) to resurrect and old vehicle.

Anti Federalist
03-24-2010, 03:53 PM
Yes,
but not easily nor cheaply.
It would require the replacement of the fuel delivery system. replace or modify the intake manifold and add a carburetor.
Radically modify or add a mechanical distributor.
The various safeties and interlocks could be defeated and are only a time consuming annoyance.

These are not things that could be done by the average mechanic.
You would also have to accept a distinct loss of efficiency.

It would be much easier (and perhaps cheaper) to resurrect and old vehicle.

And you'd have hell getting it through a smog or OBD inspection.

Yes, better keeping an old car running, until they ban them.

Semper Vigilans
03-24-2010, 04:03 PM
You guys would be surprised how easy it is to re-flash a PCM nowadays, especially on GM's. $500 buys you a software suite that can do damn near everything, including complete control over air/fuel, spark, and emissions...

Where there is a will, there is a way. We car guys are pretty creative and industrious when we have to be... ;)

Not to say that it's a bad idea to keep a car around with the ol' carburetor and points style ignition...

As far as passing emissions, not an issue in my state. Sucks for you guys ( although there are ways around emissions inspections as well... )

Anti Federalist
03-24-2010, 04:10 PM
I never thought the first car I purchased myself would be from the 1970's :p

http://nationwideclassics.com/image/product_large/36.jpg

For Sale in Cali - $4500.

http://nationwideclassics.com/products/8-1978-Ford-station-wagon-woody-

pcosmar
03-24-2010, 04:13 PM
You guys would be surprised how easy it is to re-flash a PCM nowadays, especially on GM's. $500 buys you a software suite that can do damn near everything, including complete control over air/fuel, spark, and emissions...

Where there is a will, there is a way. We car guys are pretty creative and industrious when we have to be... ;)

Not to say that it's a bad idea to keep a car around with the ol' carburetor and points style ignition...

As far as passing emissions, not an issue in my state. Sucks for you guys ( although there are ways around emissions inspections as well... )

Sure and you could build your own ECM too. and avoid those pesky Proprietary Programs backdoors.
Then harden the whole thing against RF and EMP.
Not something the average backyard tinkerer can do, but it is possible.

Anti Federalist
03-24-2010, 04:13 PM
You guys would be surprised how easy it is to re-flash a PCM nowadays, especially on GM's. $500 buys you a software suite that can do damn near everything, including complete control over air/fuel, spark, and emissions...

Where there is a will, there is a way. We car guys are pretty creative and industrious when we have to be... ;)

Not to say that it's a bad idea to keep a car around with the ol' carburetor and points style ignition...

As far as passing emissions, not an issue in my state. Sucks for you guys ( although there are ways around emissions inspections as well... )

I got one...;)

Trouble with these things is it's not integral to the ECM but it's input is required for the self tests.

What you'd need is a "spoof" box, taking the EDR out of the loop and feeding faux data back to the ECM.

NH doesn't have an emissions check in the absolute sense of the word, the inspection calls for any any post '95 vehicle, (OBDII compliant) to be checked that no MIL codes are up and that everything is functioning.

If crap and trade and the EPA gets their way, emissions will be an issue in every state.

Cowlesy
03-24-2010, 04:18 PM
I got one...;)

What you'd need is a "spoof" box, taking the EDR out of the loop and feeding faux data back to the ECM.



Exactly!!!

Travlyr
03-24-2010, 04:21 PM
I got one...;)

What you'd need is a "spoof" box, taking the EDR out of the loop and feeding faux data back to the ECM.




Now that would be fun!

Anti Federalist
03-24-2010, 06:07 PM
Onstar calls driver after 1/4 time trials on 700hp Cadillac.

Fuck this, really, fuck this hard...

YouTube - 700+ HP Hennessey Cadillac CTS-V: 11.07 @ 128 MPH - OnStar Emergency? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8As1zshWxn0&feature=player_embedded)

Semper Vigilans
03-24-2010, 08:00 PM
LOL, I have friends with a '08 Corvette Z06 and '10 CTS-V respectively who have both gotten Onstar calls whilst at the racetrack. :D My car is a 2000, otherwise I probably would have gotten my share by now too. :D

Point is guys, the free market can still work to some degree. I can't even begin to describe the what I've seen done both in person and over the internet to cars in order to get around restrictions. Some of it is truly amazing...

Of course, I don't think our beloved Leviathan will be around much longer at the rate we're going. Therefore, I doubt we'll either see the boxes or have to deal with them for long if we do.

Slightly offtopic, but OnStar is waaaay to damn Orwellian for me to even consider buying a car with it, even though I know the workarounds are easy...

OBDIII ( which is coming soon ) should worry everyone more than Vehicle Data Recorders. Big Brother would be able to track or disable your vehicle AT WILL.

jmdrake
03-25-2010, 07:50 AM
If GM wasn't totally down with the NWO do you think they'd have been bailed out? GM already puts Onstar in all of their top of the line models whether you want it or not. My next car, if I don't build it myself, will be a Ford.

Anti Federalist
03-25-2010, 09:06 AM
OBDIII ( which is coming soon ) should worry everyone more than Vehicle Data Recorders. Big Brother would be able to track or disable your vehicle AT WILL.

That +1