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bucfish
03-23-2010, 04:13 PM
If we want to bypass the state peacefully. Is home schooling not a good answer? Think about it one of The States main tentacles is public schooling. If just one of the states so called necessary duties imploded by a mass rise in home schooling would a domino effect follow?

Please provide your input.

Dustancostine
03-23-2010, 05:05 PM
I am all for homeschooling.

Homeschooled my children last year, wasn't able to do it this year so I sent them to a private school and next year and here on out, they are going to go to a different private school that was founded and is run by homeschoolers. (Would have went there this year but they were full and we have been on the waiting list).

fisharmor
03-24-2010, 07:55 AM
If we want to bypass the state peacefully. Is home schooling not a good answer? Think about it one of The States main tentacles is public schooling. If just one of the states so called necessary duties imploded by a mass rise in home schooling would a domino effect follow?

Yes, all of this is true, but I can tell you don't have kids. If you did your emphasis would be primarily on them, and consequentially on knocking down the state.

The only thing that will knock down the state is education. Treating education like a commodity is, I think, part of the problem. Education is free for the taking. Sure, it can be given, but it has to be taken.

Two things happened recently that sealed the deal for me. First, I read some of John Gatto's works. Second, I witnessed first-hand that there are some axiomatic truths in the things that he wrote.

I have a three-year-old daughter who is sounding out written words and writing letters. We put her to work around the house. She knows how to get cheerios out of the locked cabinet to give to her little sister to get her to shut up. She can explain to me (albeit badly) that radio waves make the TV work. Her biggest emotional outbursts are at those times when we don't let her do things for herself.

This was all accomplished in three years, and while we encourage a lot of what she learns, we don't "teach" it to her.

In another three years, if we put her in public school kindergarten, they are going to be three years behind where she needs to be academically (ie, where she is right now), so the only "benefit" in her going to school is that they will do their utmost to crush her tendency to figure things out for herself. Whereas her mother and I will continue to explain, in terms we know she understands, that we value her independence but she also has to communicate and work amicably within her society, school will have not the time, understanding, or inclination to do this. Crushing her spirit will be the only logical option.

Crushing spirits is the only logical option with most children. Children by nature want to learn, they want to improve themselves. It's only when some outside force comes in and convinces them not to, that they stop learning. It's easy to place the blame on parents, or social problems, but the sad reality is that for most of us, it was school that convinced us to stop learning.

I'm not saying that kids can't learn in school, and I'm not saying homeschool is the only option. But I am saying that school in general is the best way to ensure that the fundamental concepts of liberty never catch on. There will always be that minority of people, between 5 and 20 percent, who don't buy in to the whole thing, even if only from a "Cool Hand Luke" point of view. But until we can crush public schooling to get it to stop crushing us, I don't think we're going to get anywhere.

specsaregood
03-24-2010, 08:32 AM
If you did your emphasis would be primarily on them,
Besides all that good stuff you wrote, there is also the question of: "Would you rather spend an extra 8 hours a day with your kid, or let some person of unknown background/philosophy etc have 8 hours a day with your kid?"

osan
04-11-2010, 07:20 PM
If we want to bypass the state peacefully. Is home schooling not a good answer? Think about it one of The States main tentacles is public schooling. If just one of the states so called necessary duties imploded by a mass rise in home schooling would a domino effect follow?

Please provide your input.

Given the currently prevalent mindset on such issues, I would expect the "state" to be gin enforcing the education laws with violence. This is how all other organizations respond to challenges to their authority - I see no reason that departments of education would not do the same, either directly or through a third party.

ScoutsHonor
04-12-2010, 06:50 AM
Yes, all of this is true, but I can tell you don't have kids. If you did your emphasis would be primarily on them, and consequentially on knocking down the state.

The only thing that will knock down the state is education. Treating education like a commodity is, I think, part of the problem. Education is free for the taking. Sure, it can be given, but it has to be taken.

Two things happened recently that sealed the deal for me. First, I read some of John Gatto's works. Second, I witnessed first-hand that there are some axiomatic truths in the things that he wrote.

I have a three-year-old daughter who is sounding out written words and writing letters. We put her to work around the house. She knows how to get cheerios out of the locked cabinet to give to her little sister to get her to shut up. She can explain to me (albeit badly) that radio waves make the TV work. Her biggest emotional outbursts are at those times when we don't let her do things for herself.

This was all accomplished in three years, and while we encourage a lot of what she learns, we don't "teach" it to her.

In another three years, if we put her in public school kindergarten, they are going to be three years behind where she needs to be academically (ie, where she is right now), so the only "benefit" in her going to school is that they will do their utmost to crush her tendency to figure things out for herself. Whereas her mother and I will continue to explain, in terms we know she understands, that we value her independence but she also has to communicate and work amicably within her society, school will have not the time, understanding, or inclination to do this. Crushing her spirit will be the only logical option.

Crushing spirits is the only logical option with most children. Children by nature want to learn, they want to improve themselves. It's only when some outside force comes in and convinces them not to, that they stop learning. It's easy to place the blame on parents, or social problems, but the sad reality is that for most of us, it was school that convinced us to stop learning.

I'm not saying that kids can't learn in school, and I'm not saying homeschool is the only option. But I am saying that school in general is the best way to ensure that the fundamental concepts of liberty never catch on. There will always be that minority of people, between 5 and 20 percent, who don't buy in to the whole thing, even if only from a "Cool Hand Luke" point of view. But until we can crush public schooling to get it to stop crushing us, I don't think we're going to get anywhere.

+1000
great post!

Romulus
04-12-2010, 08:25 AM
I like homeschooling. But I think that children need social skills and interaction in life too. They dont get that by being at home all day. That's a challenge especially since we arent active in the church scene.

Kylie
05-16-2010, 08:16 PM
I like homeschooling. But I think that children need social skills and interaction in life too. They dont get that by being at home all day. That's a challenge especially since we arent active in the church scene.

Who says they have to be at home or a church in order to interact with people?

Do you have museums? Aquariums? Elks soccer teams? Dance schools?

Children are actually going to interact with more people in a positive setting by not being stuck in a classroom with other disrespectful and disruptive children, and a teacher who has too many kids and not enough control.

roho76
05-16-2010, 08:26 PM
I think Home schooling co-ops are the best alternative. Your children will learn and have social interaction plus you can still have a job four days a week if you get four other families to join in.

Brett
05-16-2010, 08:29 PM
I like homeschooling. But I think that children need social skills and interaction in life too. They dont get that by being at home all day. That's a challenge especially since we arent active in the church scene.

There were lots of homeschooled children in my boy scout troop. That's another great way to introduce respect for guns, living off the grid and other basic life skills :cool:

noxagol
05-16-2010, 10:00 PM
I like homeschooling. But I think that children need social skills and interaction in life too. They dont get that by being at home all day. That's a challenge especially since we arent active in the church scene.

Social interaction in school amounts to a herd of wild animals vying for domination of the pack, and using the ones deemed weaker for their entertainment in sadistic ways.

emazur
05-16-2010, 11:46 PM
Social interaction in school amounts to a herd of wild animals vying for domination of the pack, and using the ones deemed weaker for their entertainment in sadistic ways.

I'm gonna save that in my list of quotes. Did you come up with that yourself?

romacox
05-17-2010, 06:18 AM
Very well said. Most children in the public school system loose their natural desire to learn by second or third grade. Homeschool children often retain it for a life time. Homeschool children also do better on college entrance exams than do public school children.

QUOTE=fisharmor;2609847]Yes, all of this is true, but I can tell you don't have kids. If you did your emphasis would be primarily on them, and consequentially on knocking down the state.

The only thing that will knock down the state is education. Treating education like a commodity is, I think, part of the problem. Education is free for the taking. Sure, it can be given, but it has to be taken.

Two things happened recently that sealed the deal for me. First, I read some of John Gatto's works. Second, I witnessed first-hand that there are some axiomatic truths in the things that he wrote.

I have a three-year-old daughter who is sounding out written words and writing letters. We put her to work around the house. She knows how to get cheerios out of the locked cabinet to give to her little sister to get her to shut up. She can explain to me (albeit badly) that radio waves make the TV work. Her biggest emotional outbursts are at those times when we don't let her do things for herself.

This was all accomplished in three years, and while we encourage a lot of what she learns, we don't "teach" it to her.

In another three years, if we put her in public school kindergarten, they are going to be three years behind where she needs to be academically (ie, where she is right now), so the only "benefit" in her going to school is that they will do their utmost to crush her tendency to figure things out for herself. Whereas her mother and I will continue to explain, in terms we know she understands, that we value her independence but she also has to communicate and work amicably within her society, school will have not the time, understanding, or inclination to do this. Crushing her spirit will be the only logical option.

Crushing spirits is the only logical option with most children. Children by nature want to learn, they want to improve themselves. It's only when some outside force comes in and convinces them not to, that they stop learning. It's easy to place the blame on parents, or social problems, but the sad reality is that for most of us, it was school that convinced us to stop learning.

I'm not saying that kids can't learn in school, and I'm not saying homeschool is the only option. But I am saying that school in general is the best way to ensure that the fundamental concepts of liberty never catch on. There will always be that minority of people, between 5 and 20 percent, who don't buy in to the whole thing, even if only from a "Cool Hand Luke" point of view. But until we can crush public schooling to get it to stop crushing us, I don't think we're going to get anywhere.[/QUOTE]

romacox
05-17-2010, 06:22 AM
I like homeschooling. But I think that children need social skills and interaction in life too. They dont get that by being at home all day. That's a challenge especially since we arent active in the church scene.

Teachers are the biggest influx into the homeschool venue these days, and one of the reasons they give concerns socialization:

Thinking About Homeschooling? Teachers Are (http://ezinearticles.com/?Thinking-About-Homeschooling?-Teachers-Are&id=2499296)

Theocrat
05-18-2010, 08:38 AM
Homeschooling is not an end in and of itself. It will be the curriculum of the homeschool that will determine whether the child or children are educated to think and act rightly in society. To me, a homeschool that teaches immorality and unfeigned dependency to the State is no different than a child sitting in a public school classroom under that same teaching.

SovereignMN
05-21-2010, 11:08 PM
My wife and I home schooled our kindergarten daughter this year and it was great. Not only do we ensure that what she is being taught is in line with our values, but who better to know what she needs to work on than her parents. She is a great reader but struggles a bit with math so we make sure she gets more 1:1 focus with her math lessons. A teacher with 25 other kids can't possibly devote that much attention to 1 student.

Her social skills are developed by church activities, t-ball, dance class, soccer and playing with other kids in the neighborhood. By not being familiar with a "pack mentality" that so often exists in schools, combined with instruction from us about treating all people with love and kindness, she isn't afraid to be a peace-maker among the neighborhood kids. Last night we took her to the park and one boy was starting to bully others. Rather than contribute to the ostracizing of the "different" kids she befriended them. Eventually the bully and those who were encouraged to join in realized it would be more fun to either A) Play together or B) Leave the other group alone. It was a great example of what a liberty society could be like. Blessed are the peace-makers.

Peek a Boo
02-01-2011, 02:16 AM
Theocrat-- good points. I read a succinct quote from a dad once: "I sent my bright, inspiring 5yo to school and got back a dull average child."

and yes: good social skills aren't "caught" by being involved, they are TAUGHT by being *instructed*.
true Socialization skills are rarely TAUGHT at a public school.

I spoke in another thread about socialization, so check my posts for more on that. ;)