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Erazmus
03-23-2010, 02:08 PM
So I have been rereading 1984. It's been a LONG time since I've read it. I find it is now more telling, disturbing, and at the same time way better than I remember it. There is one part I just got to that struck me, hard. It is kind of a similar take I've had as I often look at people around me (who many of which still have no idea the obamacare bill passed). People are so concerned with nonsensical things, that they have no idea what is actually important. Anyway, here is the quote.


In reality very little was known about the proles. It was not necessary to know much. So long as they continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern. They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult. A few agents of the Thought Police moved always among them, spreading false rumors and marking down and eliminating the few individuals who were judged capable of becoming dangerous; but no attempt was made to indoctrinate them with the ideology of the Party. It was not desirable that the proles should have strong political feelings. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working hours or shorter rations. And even when they became disconnected, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances. The larger evils invariably escaped their notice.

This quote has never been more true, at least, in my experience.

fisharmor
03-23-2010, 02:21 PM
I'm actually reading it for the first time, and I'm in the manifesto right now.

I got to the bit about how it is necessary to wage endless limited war, in order to eat up surpluses, because shortages prevent the middle class from gaining the education they'd need to realize they don't need the aristocracy at all.

That was too heavy, I had to put it down for a while and try to recover from that one.

The most interesting thing to me is that if I had read it 15 years ago, it wouldn't have made any sense, despite the fact that there were still wars going on.

Erazmus
03-23-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm actually reading it for the first time, and I'm in the manifesto right now.

I got to the bit about how it is necessary to wage endless limited war, in order to eat up surpluses, because shortages prevent the middle class from gaining the education they'd need to realize they don't need the aristocracy at all.

That was too heavy, I had to put it down for a while and try to recover from that one.

The most interesting thing to me is that if I had read it 15 years ago, it wouldn't have made any sense, despite the fact that there were still wars going on.

I agree. It's been so long since I've read it, I have forgotten much. At the time I read it, it didn't impact me the way it does now.

dwdollar
03-23-2010, 02:55 PM
It's been awhile since I've read it also. I know there are so many passages of truth like that one, but I don't remember the specifics. It would be too gut-wrenching and painful for me to re-read it at this point.



...

LibertyMage
03-23-2010, 03:18 PM
"If there is any hope at all, it is with the proles."

BuddyRey
03-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Orwell was writing from firsthand knowledge; as a former agent of the MI6, he became privy to the elite's machinations and ultimate objectives before almost anybody else. 1984 wasn't just fiction for its own sake; it was a warning, designed with the aim of being direct enough to reach part of the public and bring them to awareness, but not enough to get him in trouble.

Anti Federalist
03-23-2010, 04:04 PM
I got to the bit about how it is necessary to wage endless limited war, in order to eat up surpluses, because shortages prevent the middle class from gaining the education they'd need to realize they don't need the aristocracy at all.



http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/historytour/history1.htm

Anti Federalist
03-23-2010, 04:05 PM
Tell the truth, I like William Griggs' usage better:

Mundanes.

Deborah K
03-23-2010, 04:56 PM
Read it in high school. Interesting how so much of the verbiage in it is part of our vernacular:

Big Brother is watching


Read Animal Farm too. Orwell, whose real name is Eric Arthur Blair, was a socialist.

pcosmar
03-23-2010, 05:01 PM
Read it in high school. Interesting how so much of the verbiage in it is part of our vernacular:

Big Brother is watching


Read Animal Farm too. Orwell, whose real name is Eric Arthur Blair, was a socialist.

I am always hopeful that there is a 5th column within the "elite".
I see small glimmers of hope from time to time.

Deborah K
03-23-2010, 05:03 PM
I am always hopeful that there is a 5th column within the "elite".
I see small glimmers of hope from time to time.

To whom would you be referring, if I may ask?

ChaosControl
03-23-2010, 05:10 PM
The book is more prophecy than fiction. I still hated the ending though.

pcosmar
03-23-2010, 05:35 PM
To whom would you be referring, if I may ask?

If I knew who they were I certainly would not expose them.
but from time to time some small thing (that hinders or delays) happens.

like the leaked (hacked?) E-mails. or a book of fiction with a warning. ;)

Deborah K
03-23-2010, 05:37 PM
If I knew who they were I certainly would not expose them.
but from time to time some small thing (that hinders or delays) happens.

like the leaked (hacked?) E-mails. or a book of fiction with a warning. ;)

gotcha. ;)

Son of Detroit
03-23-2010, 05:38 PM
I'm reading it for the first time in English class. I've been wanting to read it for a long time, and I'm glad to be able to do it in the class setting with discussions. Really captivating.

Erazmus
03-23-2010, 08:30 PM
I'm reading it for the first time in English class. I've been wanting to read it for a long time, and I'm glad to be able to do it in the class setting with discussions. Really captivating.

Was this assigned, or did you choose it for yourself? I'd be amazed if it were assigned.

TheState
03-23-2010, 08:37 PM
Was this assigned, or did you choose it for yourself? I'd be amazed if it were assigned.

In my PUBLIC high school english class we had to read 1984, Brave New World, A Clockwork Orange, and On the Beach.

Although back then I thought they all sucked because I HAD to read them hah, I've reread them all recently in order to appreciate them better.