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View Full Version : What if you don't buy insurance...?




MelissaWV
03-23-2010, 07:31 AM
This is verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting. I found it while browsing my favorite tabloid (FoxNews . com). The strategy would seem to be not to overpay your taxes (not be due a refund) and you wouldn't have the fine collected. I'm sure Government will "fix" this silly oversight. It also seems enforcement wasn't funded in the bill.


The health care reform bill to be signed Tuesday by President Obama would give the IRS a new mandate to enforce some of the initiative's key provisions -- but apparently not the means to do so.

Under the Senate bill approved Sunday by the House, the Internal Revenue Service would be called on to ensure Americans are obtaining health care insurance and businesses are offering it, or else they could face fines. Many would receive subsidies to help pay for insurance.

The emphasis is on incentives for healthy people to buy insurance, thereby spreading the risk of older, less healthy people over a broader pool of customers. For those earning between $22,050 and $88,200, there are tax credits for health insurance premiums. In addition, individuals initially face fines of up to $750 for not buying in; businesses would face fines of up to $3,000.

It will cost the IRS $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years to handle the new workload, according to a March 11 estimate by the Congressional Budget Office. But the Senate bill doesn’t provide any funding for the expansion of the IRS, and it virtually ties the hands of the IRS to collect fees on individuals and businesses who don’t buy health insurance.

“The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty," according to the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation. "Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner."

That means there’s virtually nothing the IRS can do to enforce the fines in the legislation, forcing the tax man to rely on the consciences of taxpayers or to skim off any federal benefits, tax credits or refunds they have coming to them.
"In other words, if you're due a refund or some other federal benefit, and you didn't obtain qualified insurance, your refund or benefit will be tapped for your fee,” said Bill Ahearn, director of policy and communications for the Tax Foundation.

“People who aren't due any refunds or federal benefits will apparently face no collection action, as the IRS's hands will be effectively tied and it will be a truly voluntary tax."
Supporters of the bill, however, believe that while the IRS needs to be able to enforce the fines, it’s unlikely that the agency's inability to do so will give people a reason not to buy into health care.

“Surveys routinely show that people don't pay for health care because they can't afford it,” said Timothy Jost, a professor at Washington & Lee University Law School. “This bill gives them a way they can afford it.”


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/22/irs-serve-health-reform-enforcer-lacks-authority-enforce/

MelissaWV
03-23-2010, 07:54 AM
nvm...

Watch, though; in a matter of days or weeks or months, people will be trying to figure out how to "get out of it" without questioning if they're really legally "in it" at all.

torchbearer
03-23-2010, 07:57 AM
i think i'm going to stop working and just get on government benefits.
generating income only keeps the leech alive.

Juan McCain
03-23-2010, 07:57 AM
This is a compulsory program . . . requiring you to engage in commerce just by being alive.

why wouldn't you be sent a letter from the IRS to be audited and then determined that you owe the 2.5 % tax penalty ?

No, I don't think the IRS will have "armed" agents at your door . . .
but only the power to audit your return with over 16,000 new IRS agents.

angelatc
03-23-2010, 08:05 AM
The lack of enforceability is easily changed. They probably just slipped that in there to quell the initial outcrys about being sent to jail for not having insurance.

This program is doomed. Remember what happened to credit card rates when Congress gave them a few months to prepare for the new rules?

Now, Congress has given the insurance companies 4 years to prepare for rules that will forbid them from turning away patients with pre-existing conditions.

And they made the fines much less than the cost of the policies.

ETA - I am not implying they did this because they're stupid. I am implying that they did this to destroy the system we have and force people to demand single-payer.

Working Poor
03-23-2010, 08:08 AM
i think i'm going to stop working and just get on government benefits.
generating income only keeps the leech alive.


I feel the same way the less I make the less they can take. Starve the beast!

LibertyWorker
03-23-2010, 08:13 AM
1. Refuse to buy health insurance
2. Refuse to pay tax penalty for not buying health insurance.
3. Refuse being sent to jail for not paying tax penalty
4. They kick in your door and kill you.

Give to corporation your money or they will send a death squad to your house

All governments rule over you though violence,intimidation, and force.....Period

The corporations are the real government the people in Washington DC are just there front men doing there biding.:mad:

MelissaWV
03-23-2010, 08:21 AM
1. Refuse to buy health insurance
2. Refuse to pay tax penalty for not buying health insurance.
3. Refuse being sent to jail for not paying tax penalty
4. They kick in your door and kill you.

Give to corporation your money or they will send a death squad to your house

All governments rule over you though violence,intimidation, and force.....Period

The corporations are the real government the people in Washington DC are just there front men doing there biding.:mad:

If you'd read the article, you would have seen there is no provision for #3 as it currently stands.

* * *

angelatc:

They may fix it shortly, I agree, or they may not. What if this becomes a to-do like the Census? There are people deathly afraid the Census is going to come to their door and knock it down, dragging them off to jail for not disclosing how many toilets there are in the house. At work today, literally everyone else has said that (as of yesterday) you have to have insurance no matter what. It does not dawn on them that it isn't the case. On the radio, people were saying this whole bill is a "good thing" because it "gives insurance to people who're out of jobs and stuff." The airwaves were flooded with phonecalls full of sob stories about children being kicked out of hospitals because their insurance wouldn't pay for further treatments/stays, and those parents were overjoyed that no more children would die because of that.

The main enforcing power behind this bill appears to be ignorance. Add to that the fact that a LOT of people get refunds from the IRS (better than owing, right?) and this would largely fly under the radar.

acptulsa
03-23-2010, 08:52 AM
ETA - I am not implying they did this because they're stupid. I am implying that they did this to destroy the system we have and force people to demand single-payer.

Problem--reaction--"solution" worse than the disease

--reaction--"solution" worse than the disease

--reaction--"solution" worse than the disease

--reaction--"solution" worse than the disease...

We must have achieved ad naseum; I feel sick.


Give to corporation your money or they will send a death squad to your house

The Surgeon General has already determined that smoking can cause emphazema--especially now that laws force you to do it outside regardless of the weather. The above would certainly make it easy for the Surgeon General to determine that you live rather longer with health insurance than without, wouldn't it...?

LibertyWorker
03-23-2010, 09:05 AM
I cant predicted the future, but you only need to look at the past 100 year of history to see where this is going.

They almost never put in the enforcement part of the provisions in the bill's that are this high profile because it give the opposition more ammo to scare the public ergo to sway the public's opinion.

The enforcement part will be slipped in at the last minute in to the back of some totally innocent sounding bill no one cares about.

This is how its done all the time.

BuddyRey
03-23-2010, 02:42 PM
1. Refuse to buy health insurance
2. Refuse to pay tax penalty for not buying health insurance.
3. Refuse being sent to jail for not paying tax penalty
4. They kick in your door and kill you.

Give to corporation your money or they will send a death squad to your house

All governments rule over you though violence,intimidation, and force.....Period

The corporations are the real government the people in Washington DC are just there front men doing there biding.:mad:

So what course of action would you recommend? I was planning to disobey the law by refusing to buy insurance, but not if it'll get me killed by an insurance company death squad.

ChaosControl
03-23-2010, 02:46 PM
We'll see. I'm not buying in. I have 0 withholding so I never have refunds (why the hell would I give the government an interest free loan?), so if true they can't do squat to me. :)

LibertyWorker
03-23-2010, 03:18 PM
So what course of action would you recommend? I was planning to disobey the law by refusing to buy insurance, but not if it'll get me killed by an insurance company death squad.

I think a man does what he can..... until his destiny is revealed to him. j/k I love that line from the last samurai.

I think until people are ready to get involved in a mass 60s style disobedience movement there's nothing to do.

The entire political process is a joke. Raising money for voting for this guy or that guy it's ridiculous. the idea that two parties can represent the ideas of an entire nation of people in itself is ridiculous.

It's the corporations that are the true government the people in Washington DC are just the front men. The corporations are making and writing the policy and laws. their paid stooges are the ones introducing and voting for it.

Cinderella
03-23-2010, 03:22 PM
I think until people are ready to get involved in a mass 60s style disobedience movement there's nothing to do.

The entire political process is a joke


.

this + 1776 = TRUTH!

phill4paul
03-23-2010, 03:40 PM
Not gonna participate in it. Because of my beliefs regarding the war machine I have trimmed as much as I can from rendering unto Washington and this will just spur me to trim more.
They can show up at my door if they want. I'm too far past caring in that regard.
When all is said and done none of us gets out of this world alive. It's only our actions while in it that matter.
Of course it is easier for me to do because I have no one that is dependent on me and that is enough a responsibility for any one to deal with so I certainly understand those that are in that situation.
However, for myself I don't need another Federal entity to rule whether the Health Care Act is un-Constitutional. To me it is black and white.

keh10
03-23-2010, 05:47 PM
i think i'm going to stop working and just get on government benefits.
generating income only keeps the leech alive.


I hate that situation, but I know what you mean. I can't remember who said it first (Hayek maybe?), but your labor is only worth the difference between your wages and unemployment benefits. It's a wonder that McDonalds has any employees at all. Anyways, what happens when everyone draws on unemployment? I don't know about you all, but I feel obligated to make as much money as possible. Because I know that for every dollar that is voluntarily given to me for my labor, I am benefiting not only myself, but everyone else.