How about we start a jury nullification campaign against the Health Mandate?

[dude58677]

Could we have a jury nullification money bomb?

[Knightskye]

"The health care reform legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives last night clearly violates the U.S. Constitution and infringes on each state's sovereignty," Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican, said in a prepared statement announcing a news conference.

"On behalf of the State of Florida and of the Attorneys General from South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Utah, Pennsylvania, Washington, North Dakota, South Dakota and Alabama if the President signs this bill into law, we will file a lawsuit to protect the rights and the interests of American citizens." (Reporting by Michael Connor, Editing by Chizu Nomiyama)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2215987420100322

It's taken care of.

[Stary Hickory]

I am glad to see states stepping up to defend their citizens. I want to see much much more. This is the only way back to freedom and a SANE country. Let every state decide things on their own.

We desperately need states to collect taxes and not the Feds.

[tnvoter]

hope :)

[dude58677]

So if we have a jury nullification, what kind of web design would allow a money meter and what date should this be?


I still think we should have a jury nullification money bomb because if the House can manipulate the legistlative process, why can't they fudge the court system with things such as "court packing"?

[Join The Paul Side]

Jury nullification? I thought this was going first to federal trial court, then federal appeals court, and lastly to be settled in the Supreme Court. What good is a jury nullification if the Supreme Court judges have the final say in the court process?

Besides, I think that Principle 98 thingy has legs. From my understanding of it is that a 2/3 states majority can nullify any Federal law, even ones upheld by the Supreme Court. :)

If I'm wrong on any of this I am more than happy to be properly educated. :)

[GunnyFreedom]

I think we need an educational campaign amongst Ron Paulers sometimes...

Jury Nullification does not equal Attorney General Suits at Law
Jury Nullification does not equal Tenth Amendment Nullification
Tenth Amendment Nullification does not equal Attorney General Suits at Law

None of these three things are equivalent to any of these three things.

Any questions? ;)

[nobody's_hero]

Jury nullification is the final trump card.

But, don't be surprised if they try to strip away the right-to-trial-by-jury over the mandate.

[Stary Hickory]

They are never going to stop people from destroying this HC bill. It must go, it has to go, and it will go. And I'd like to think this was only the beginning.

[ionlyknowy]

jury nullification can only work in criminal trials. The reason for this is that if a criminal defendant is found not guilty, the state has no right to appeal the finding by the jury.

In civil trials like the health care mandate would be, would first be heard by a jury. And they could nullify the mandate. BUT there are numerous post trial rememdies in civil trials. For instance, the losing party can file a motion for new trial. And argue that there was legal/factual insufficiency of evidence for the jury to find as they did. There is also a Judgment notwithstanding the verdict that can be filed. If both of these remedies do not prevail then there is the appeal process. Upon appeal there is no jury, just a panel of judges that read legal briefs on the subject and hear oral arguements by the lawyers on each side. If they still find that the losing party is still a loser, then the losing party can appeal to the supreme court. Then same process, no jury just the judges you and I know so well.

So jury nullification would never work. It might slow it down but will eventually fail.

[candcantiques]

Sorry ionlyknowy but you are incorrect. This is how jury nullification works

First an individual must be charged with the crime of not getting insurance and refusal to pay the fine. Refusal to pay the fine IS a criminal offense. The defendant, me by the way, will ask for a jury trial. Once a jury is convined and the trial is ready for opening statements I will tell the jury about jury nullification. Immediately the Judge will call a mistrial. I will sue the Judge for interfering with my right to defend myself by notifying the jury of the law. I will make sure the papers and news know about it. They cannot deny me a jury trial. This will happen 3 or 4 times making the news each time. A jury will find me not guilty. I cannot be tried again because of double jeapordy.

Most importantly it IS a criminal offense to REFUSE to pay the IRS a fine that they have levied against you punishable by up to a $25,000 fine and 5 years in jail. The key word is REFUSE.

[candcantiques]

One final thing. I WILL be found in contempt of court and probably do some time as a result of defying the judges order to not speak of jury nullification to the jury. I will be glad to do the time though and in the end the courts will find that a defendant has the right to notify the jury of the law. It's gonna take years to complete all of this though and it is a last ditch effort. Even if the supreme court finds in favor of the health care bill the people have the right through jury nullification to completely nullify the health care bill.

nobody's_hero has a point though, if somehow they make it so that it is NOT a criminal offense to refuse to pay the fine, then we are all shit out of luck, but in order to do that the jail term MUST be a whole lot less than 5 years and the fine for not paying cannot be anywhere NEAR $25,000 which it is at the moment. Pelosi wants it to be a criminal offense and that is how it is written presently. There IS talk already about decriminalizing refusal to pay.

[ionlyknowy]

Sorry ionlyknowy but you are incorrect. This is how jury nullification works

First an individual must be charged with the crime of not getting insurance and refusal to pay the fine. Refusal to pay the fine IS a criminal offense. The defendant, me by the way, will ask for a jury trial. Once a jury is convined and the trial is ready for opening statements I will tell the jury about jury nullification. Immediately the Judge will call a mistrial. I will sue the Judge for interfering with my right to defend myself by notifying the jury of the law. I will make sure the papers and news know about it. They cannot deny me a jury trial. This will happen 3 or 4 times making the news each time. A jury will find me not guilty. I cannot be tried again because of double jeapordy.

Most importantly it IS a criminal offense to REFUSE to pay the IRS a fine that they have levied against you punishable by up to a $25,000 fine and 5 years in jail. The key word is REFUSE.




you are correct, IF it is deemed to be a criminal offense to not sign up for healthcare or pay the penality then you are correct and you can utilize jury nullification effectively.. I was assuming that it would be a civil suit. Another thing, if you use jury nullification and it is successful, then the holding in the case is only applicable to you. It will not set any precedence that any other court has to follow. That means every other joe that does not pay the penality will have to get a jury to nullify also.

One thing though. If you are found in contempt of court then the judge will require that you stay in jail indefinitely until you decide you will comply with whatever the judge wants you to do. So, be ready to either spend the rest of your life in jail, and trying to get out via habeous corpus motions which probably wont do you any good, or complying with the judge.

If you need a lawyer then let me know, I graduate in 1.5 years from law school and plan to represent liberty minded people like yourself.

Oh and another thing... Im not totally sure that the penalty will be considered a criminal offense if you do not pay it. See the filed complaint in Mississippi in the link and the explaination of what was filed below:







Which brings us to another important but poorly understood issue: Just what are the consequences? Exactly how will the mandate will be enforced? Unfortunately, this is something that none of us really know. Congress states outright that there will be a “penalty” assessed for citizens who disobey their command. These lawbreakers will have to pay an amount that will be assessed as a tax. Yes, we all know Congress has the power to tax, but remember, Congress itself has called this tax a “penalty.” As we explain in our Complaint,

Central to the definition of penalty is the “idea of punishment” – “[p]unishment imposed on a wrongdoer . . . in the form of imprisonment or fine. Though usually for crimes, penalties are also sometimes imposed for civil wrongs.” Black’s Law Dictionary 1153 (7th ed. 1999).

Yes, you wrongdoers who decide to go without insurance will be punished by the federal government. You will have to pay a special tax that applies only to wrongdoers like you. The Complaint points out that this “constitutes a capitation and a direct tax that is not apportioned among the states according to census data,” which is unconstitutional in itself. But this does not make great bedtime reading, so I’ll let you in on a secret: It’s a tax that they cannot make you pay.

A plain reading of the individual mandate shows that Congress first sets forth a penalty for failure to buy insurance, then says that regardless of anything written anywhere else in any other law, there can be no criminal penalty:

‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

Then, to make it even very difficult (perhaps impossible) to civilly enforce the penalty/tax, Congress denied the government any power to file liens or levy any wrongdoer’s property:

‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not— ‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or ‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.’’.If the feds cannot levy or lien you, then what can they do to get your money? Write scary letters to you? Just what happens to the authority of the federal government when people laugh at these scary letters?

What indeed. We have demanded in our Complaint that if the government has some trick up its sleeve, that we be told what it is. If we are to be punished for not buying something, we deserve to know ahead of time what that punishment might be. That’s not just an old American tradition, it’s a constitutional principle.

The alternative, of course, is for the feds to admit that there is no enforcement mechanism. Consider what that means for a minute: the pièce de résistance of the PPACA is the individual mandate. Without an enforcement mechanism, the individual mandate fails; without the mandate, the entire legislative act fails utterly.

If the government admits, or the federal judiciary declares, that there is no enforcement mechanism for the individual mandate, millions will be free to ignore it. We believe, though, that the lack of an enforcement mechanism makes the individual mandate unconstitutional for reasons that we will discuss further with the federal court for the Southern District of Mississippi.

A call to service

We’ve got Mississippi covered. Now we need for you to do your part to take back your liberty. This lawsuit can be filed in every state in the greatest nation on earth, and it should be. Wherever this abomination applies, there is at least one federal court, often many. Find them, take our lawsuit, change the names and file it. Add to it if you have more arguments. If you are serious about doing so and need information, we are easy to find.

We have much more to say about the unconstitutionality of this abominable act of Congress, and we’re looking forward to your comments. God bless America!

Full Complaint below:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2486810/posts