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Juan McCain
03-22-2010, 07:16 AM
Although the universal coverage non-compliance tax penalty on individuals will not take effect for three years - if I understand this correctly -
the insurance industry has some immediate effects like not dropping coverage . . .
so costs of health insurance in short term could rise and employers may still have to cut jobs or freeze hiring.

How high a spike in unemployment rate ? - the non government-state-communism jobs

How will markets take this 16 % of GDP going to be run by the Federalists in the central government ?
- I'm not so sure it was factored in already all that much.

We just might see the effects of this more immediately than the Dims expect.

MelissaWV
03-22-2010, 07:19 AM
Although the universal coverage non-compliance tax penalty on individuals will not take effect for three years - if I understand this correctly -
the insurance industry has some immediate effects like not dropping coverage . . .
so costs of health insurance in short term could rise and employers may still have to cut jobs 0r freeze hiring.

How high a spike in unemployment rate ? - the non government-state-communism jobs

How will markets take this 16 % of GDP going to be run by the Federalists in the central government ?
- I'm not so sure it was factored in already all that much.

We just might see the effects of this more immediately than the Dims expect.

The "pre-existing conditions" clause is being changed for children, too. I need to read up on this when I get home, to see how it defines "children," because also effective immediately parents can keep their "child" on their policy until they are 26.

angelatc
03-22-2010, 07:19 AM
Nah, they're all excited about all the people who will be forced to buy insurance now. Health stocks will continue to rise.

moostraks
03-22-2010, 07:49 AM
Nah, they're all excited about all the people who will be forced to buy insurance now. Health stocks will continue to rise.

;):mad:

Juan McCain
03-22-2010, 07:51 AM
Nah, they're all excited about all the people who will be forced to buy insurance now. Health stocks will continue to rise.

Three years away for the throng of new enrollees forced to participate . . . the immediate cost effects and effects on jobs . . . not so pretty.

paulitics
03-22-2010, 07:53 AM
The irony of this all, is this bill is probably going to force me to drop my insurance coverage.

MsDoodahs
03-22-2010, 08:04 AM
Just hearing that pharma got a goodie: they got an extension on their exclusivity on drugs to twelve years.

Also, a goodie for the insurers: there will be no control by the government of premium pricing - so the insurers can charge whatever they need to charge in order to cover all the pre-existings and removal of caps, which means premiums can (will?) go up up and away....

Light
03-22-2010, 08:07 AM
As I said before, the stock market is no longer a good indicator for the financial situation in this country. The stock market has been rallying for months, with nothing in employment to show for it.

Elwar
03-22-2010, 08:09 AM
The irony of this all, is this bill is probably going to force me to drop my insurance coverage.

Why would anyone need health insurance if you can just buy insurance once you come down with a serious illness.

Just call the insurance company on your way to the hospital and sign up then.

Then drop them once they pay for all of your bills.

MelissaWV
03-22-2010, 08:10 AM
Just hearing that pharma got a goodie: they got an extension on their exclusivity on drugs to twelve years.

Also, a goodie for the insurers: there will be no control by the government of premium pricing - so the insurers can charge whatever they need to charge in order to cover all the pre-existings and removal of caps, which means premiums can (will?) go up up and away....

The last one is my point, yes.

I am not for Government taking over and regulating things, but let's at least be logical? Okay, great, get everyone insured... you MUST have insurance. However, with no price ceiling placed on insurance, it can and will go sky-high. This is currently the case for car insurance in many states. The difference is you don't HAVE to own a car. You can't disown your body. Your premiums may go through the roof, but you're required to keep insurance, or pay fines.

Incidentally, am I the only one that notices this country seems to be using the Miranda Rights format for things now?

You have the right to remain healthy. Anything you eat or drink can be used against you before the healthiness review board. You have the right to insurance. If you cannot afford insurance, insurance will be provided for you.

Juan McCain
03-22-2010, 08:11 AM
. . . which means premiums can (will?) go up up and away....

Insurance companies will eventually be loving all the new customers . . . and if rates can go up up and away . . . then so will the loss of jobs.

Socialism will be a bear.

newbitech
03-22-2010, 08:13 AM
Why would anyone need health insurance if you can just buy insurance once you come down with a serious illness.

Just call the insurance company on your way to the hospital and sign up then.

Then drop them once they pay for all of your bills.


right? lol

That's like calling up geico and saying hey I just got into a wreck, can I get a quote?

but see, I guess that is why they had to force people to buy it. That sort of closes off that little loophole.

Dustancostine
03-22-2010, 09:00 AM
Also, a goodie for the insurers: there will be no control by the government of premium pricing - so the insurers can charge whatever they need to charge in order to cover all the pre-existings and removal of caps, which means premiums can (will?) go up up and away....

There is a good chance that insurance will be so expensive that nobody will buy it and this whole darn thing just becomes a big tax increase.

For business it may be cheaper to pay $2000/employee than it is to insure them and you don't have to worry because the government is going to force your employees to get insurance anyways. $2000/12 is only a $166.67 per month increase per employee, so do you know were employee's next raise is going to go? To paying their fee, also will probably increase cost of goods and services as well.

For people it may be cheaper to pay 2.5% of your earnings than it is to get insurance so likewise they will just pay the fee.

Also for employers if you do insure your employees and then one of them takes government assistance to pay their part of the premium, then you still have to pay $695 for every single employee you have regardless of whether all of them get govt assistance or not so you might as well just pay the $2000 and not have to worry about it.

Bruno
03-22-2010, 09:13 AM
The last one is my point, yes.

I am not for Government taking over and regulating things, but let's at least be logical? Okay, great, get everyone insured... you MUST have insurance. However, with no price ceiling placed on insurance, it can and will go sky-high. This is currently the case for car insurance in many states. The difference is you don't HAVE to own a car. You can't disown your body. Your premiums may go through the roof, but you're required to keep insurance, or pay fines.

Incidentally, am I the only one that notices this country seems to be using the Miranda Rights format for things now?

You have the right to remain healthy. Anything you eat or drink can be used against you before the healthiness review board. You have the right to insurance. If you choose not to purchase insurance, it will be forced upon you. If you cannot afford insurance, insurance will be provided for you and paid for by taxpayers without their consent.

Nice idea. Fixed a couple of things.

MelissaWV
03-22-2010, 09:24 AM
Nice idea. Fixed a couple of things.

My 'anything you eat or drink' is coming. Mrs. Obama did not randomly pick this year to start harping on childhood obesity. The Government will now know how "unhealthy" the country is, and start doing quite a bit to "help" people out. It will, of course, be done with the input of lobbies. You can't put a huge sin tax on cheeseburgers, because then you'd have fast food places angry at you. You can, however, put a sin tax on beef and cheese. Beef prices would just go up. Cheese prices would go up, but "cheese food" might be exempt. The bigger companies slinging burgers would absorb the increases best, and their cheap fare would stay relatively cheap, making it even cheaper to grab a burger from the drive-thru than make yourself one at home.

Eat, drink, smoke... it's going to be important for your insurer and the entity paying for that insurance to know about it.

Bruno
03-22-2010, 09:29 AM
My 'anything you eat or drink' is coming. Mrs. Obama did not randomly pick this year to start harping on childhood obesity. The Government will now know how "unhealthy" the country is, and start doing quite a bit to "help" people out. It will, of course, be done with the input of lobbies. You can't put a huge sin tax on cheeseburgers, because then you'd have fast food places angry at you. You can, however, put a sin tax on beef and cheese. Beef prices would just go up. Cheese prices would go up, but "cheese food" might be exempt. The bigger companies slinging burgers would absorb the increases best, and their cheap fare would stay relatively cheap, making it even cheaper to grab a burger from the drive-thru than make yourself one at home.

Eat, drink, smoke... it's going to be important for your insurer and the entity paying for that insurance to know about it.

Considering this administration, that sounds like a logical progression for them, unfortunately.

Anti Federalist
03-22-2010, 11:23 AM
My 'anything you eat or drink' is coming. Mrs. Obama did not randomly pick this year to start harping on childhood obesity. The Government will now know how "unhealthy" the country is, and start doing quite a bit to "help" people out. It will, of course, be done with the input of lobbies. You can't put a huge sin tax on cheeseburgers, because then you'd have fast food places angry at you. You can, however, put a sin tax on beef and cheese. Beef prices would just go up. Cheese prices would go up, but "cheese food" might be exempt. The bigger companies slinging burgers would absorb the increases best, and their cheap fare would stay relatively cheap, making it even cheaper to grab a burger from the drive-thru than make yourself one at home.

Eat, drink, smoke... it's going to be important for your insurer and the entity paying for that insurance to know about it.

Feh, get ready for morning exercises in front of the two way telescreen.

Just like Winston Smith.

moostraks
03-22-2010, 03:17 PM
"AT A GLANCE: Most Health-Care Stocks Close Up After Overhaul OK



THE NEWS: Most health-care stocks led the stock market higher Monday after the U.S. House Sunday approved a historic health-care overhaul designed to bring health insurance to 32 million more Americas while subjecting U.S. industries to a dramatically redrawn and newly regulated marketplace. President Barack Obama likely will sign the bill into law Tuesday.

MARKET ACTION:

The health-care sector led U.S. stocks higher as investors expressed relief that a big uncertainty for the market was largely removed."

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201003221629dowjonesdjonline000 371&title=at-a-glancemost-health-care-stocks-close-up-after-overhaul-ok

MN Patriot
03-22-2010, 03:35 PM
As I said before, the stock market is no longer a good indicator for the financial situation in this country. The stock market has been rallying for months, with nothing in employment to show for it.

The stock market has been driven by irrationality for years now. Remember Greenspan talking about irrational exuberance? Just a bunch of well dressed hot shots gambling other people's money.

Creation of mutual funds and 401ks in the 1980's, and the drive to get people to invest for their retirement because of the eventual collapse of Social Security has driven the market higher than it should be for years now. Buy stock now in the hopes there is a bigger sucker to buy it later. Of course a certain amount of investment is a good thing, but when corporate executives make thousands of dollars an hour, there is a disconnect with reality.

Now if the insurance industry complains about the government driving them out of business, they have nobody but themselves to blame. The whole idea of using insurance as a health care funding mechanism is preposterous. Kind of a socialized medicine using private industry.

tropicangela
03-22-2010, 06:46 PM
“There a general agreement that many of these reforms will actually increase premium cost. The subsidies associated with them may reduce their out-of-pocket but that doesn’t mean insurance costs are going to be any less.”

As the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) acknowledges: under this bill, small businesses will see little to no decrease in their monthly premiums and individuals will see an increase of 10-13%.”

http://www.insurancenetworking.com/news/insurance_health_care_reform_individual_mandate_ag ents_AHIP-24447-1.html

Anti Federalist
03-22-2010, 06:50 PM
"AT A GLANCE: Most Health-Care Stocks Close Up After Overhaul OK



THE NEWS: Most health-care stocks led the stock market higher Monday after the U.S. House Sunday approved a historic health-care overhaul designed to bring health insurance to 32 million more Americas while subjecting U.S. industries to a dramatically redrawn and newly regulated marketplace. President Barack Obama likely will sign the bill into law Tuesday.

MARKET ACTION:

The health-care sector led U.S. stocks higher as investors expressed relief that a big uncertainty for the market was largely removed."

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201003221629dowjonesdjonline000 371&title=at-a-glancemost-health-care-stocks-close-up-after-overhaul-ok

The market loves big government.

Dow 11000 here we come. :p

Anti Federalist
03-22-2010, 06:52 PM
Kind of a socialized medicine using private industry.

There's a name for that form of economic system: fascism. :mad:

michaelwise
03-22-2010, 06:54 PM
The rising cost of insurance will help the system to collapse faster, as it should. People just won't buy it. Forget about the insurance, It's The Price of the Procedures Stupid.